People deserve rights at our borders

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  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 24, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" you are wrong. Just because people break the law, that does not give them a pass like the letter suggests. If a law is broken, it is broken and the punishment that is attached should be implemented.

    If you are being tailgated or traffic is going faster than 65 mph, should those people be treated extra carefully so that their feelings are not hurt, or should they receive the punishment that the law proscribes?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 22, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    Springville, UT

    No one should have exclusive right to break our laws.


    I'll remember how ridiculous you sound each and every time every car on Utah's Freeways with all the good law obeying Mormon citizens tailgate and pass me like I'm standing still as I drive the posted 65 mph LAW.

    No one, now excuses --- ya, right.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 21, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    To those that think that punishing all employers is the way to go, you are incredible naieve. Lets look at things from a small business point of view. Imagine I have a motel, I manage the place, and have 10 employees. I have a hispanic person apply for a job, and they provide documentation that looks legitimate, but isn't. They are hired, and work for a while, then the ICE does a verification on my employees. Should I be punished for unknowingly hiring an illegal immigrant?

    Now, how do you punish intent? How can you prove that somebody intended to hire illegal immigrants?

    The other thing that you are forgetting is that there are ways around the employment laws that many companies use.

    One option is to make the illegal immigrant a co-owner.

    Another option is to make them a 1099 employee where they are essentially a contractor.

    A third option is to simply pay them cash.

    You can't make employers into criminals unless you can close the loopholes.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    June 20, 2013 4:28 p.m.


    We all realize except for the Native Americans that we are all immigrants. But we also must live in the real world. The United States is a sovereign nation and must have the authority to manage its territory. I do agree that those that hire illegal immigrants should be prosecuted and of course we should treat those found crossing the border illegally humanely. This is what separates America from many countries in the world.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 20, 2013 2:18 p.m.

    The funny thing is that if the borders were secure, we wouldn't have to worry about what to do with the people that cross the border illegally. Think of it like your house. Do you worry about insulating you windows or drafts coming through the walls if you windows are good don't allow the wind through, and if you have plugged the leaks in your house?

    If you solve the source of the problem, which is a pourous border, the issue of what to do with those that come here illegally at the border goes away.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    June 20, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    No one should have exclusive right to break our laws. Unfortunately, the DesNews, the Democratic Party, the Communist Party of the USA, and others feel otherwise. And just for discussion's sake, anarchy is the result of a community's rejection of the rule of law.

    Several entities are disinterested in our nation's well being. Most Americans, thank goodness, are. And most Americans recognize that the passage of a new immigration bill will not resolve the problems stemming from an unsecured border, refusal by our government to enforce its laws, and several entities profiting from illegal immigration.

  • Viva la Migra American Fork, UT
    June 19, 2013 10:43 p.m.

    Miss Kathy conveniently omits the environmental crisis at the border by the mountains of trash left behind by illegal crossers.

    She fails to mention the U.S. citizens who live along the border, who are under siege from illegal crossers who cut fences, damage their property, slaughter their livestock and steal from them.

    She doesn't mention the many National Parks now closed to citizens, because they are so overrun with armed drug cartels, making the area unsafe.

    There are also many Americans who've been killed by illegal aliens along the border. One of my good friends (pregnant with her first child) was shot and killed by an illegal alien who ambushed her during a routine traffic stop in Texas.

    We have every right to secure our border and demand that would-be immigrants follow our rules to come here. All other countries seem to enforce their immigration laws, so why shouldn't we? It's unfortunate that our elected/appointed officials lack the willpower to do so.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    June 19, 2013 10:01 p.m.

    @Twin Lights:
    "Sending them all back is simply unrealistic."

    Sending them back is simple. Just enforce the E-Verify law passed by Congress and illegals will deport themselves... No jobs and they go somewhere else.

    "I cannot get behind any legislation that does not get our borders under control."

    You better get ready. The Democrats have just a situation in mind. Some Repubs are joining.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2013 9:45 p.m.

    @2 bits
    Thanks for getting your dander up at the blather of Ernest. You saved many others the trouble.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    June 19, 2013 7:13 p.m.

    If we are good Christians who care about the poor why would we only feel sorry for Hispanics coming here illegally? Why wouldn't we open our doors to the poor of Africa, India, Egypt, China etc?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 19, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    perhaps we ought to just grant them amnesty - free health care and a college scholarship!! Oh wait - we are already are doing that as long as they vote for the Democrat party. Those darn mean ole Americans anyway - how dare they try to enforce their laws. For pete sake what has the world come to when people don't have the right to free stuff? Those of who do work and pay taxes in American have the obligation to give our money and property to any foreign law breaker who wants it ... it's all about fairness remember?? We already give our money freely to the army of Obama bums to compliment their free 'Obama-phones'.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2013 3:53 p.m.

    You're being totally illogical today.

    Yes illegal is illegal. Do some research...There WAS NO IMMIGRATION LAW TO BREAK in 1847! Mexico had no such law! So they broke no law! That's the reason I researched and quoting the history and the law at the time in Utah!

    "What good christian could possibly begrudge someone who is just barely making a living at well below the poverty level? They are simply pulling themselves up by their bootstraps"... WHAT? Now living below the poverty level means you can break the law???
    So if your living below the poverty level and just pulling yourself up by your bootstraps... is it OK to rob banks? So why is it OK to break our immigration laws? This just makes no sense!

    And the "good christian" stuff... give it a rest. You don't know my religion just as I don't know (or care about) yours. That has nothing to do with this.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 19, 2013 3:22 p.m.

    Ernest T. Bass

    We were at war. The Mormon batallion joined the battle in 1846.

    Unless you are saying that those here illegally are an act of war, your excuse is irrelevant.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 19, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    2 bits: It didn't bother them in 1847 any more than it bothers "them" now. Illegal is illegal, right?
    Besides, they're just here to make a living. What good christian could possibly begrudge someone who is just barely making a living at well below the poverty level? They are simply pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2013 1:26 p.m.

    Ernest T. Bass,
    NOT AGAIN... this lame argument has already been discussed as you have brought it up a hundred times.

    Pretending the settlers of the West are the same as today crossing the Rio Grande KNOWING you are violating US immigration law and are subject to deportation... is lame. It's not the same.

    I think the pioneers knew they were not in the United States when they settled in Utah. And so did the 49rs who settled San Diego, and the people on the Oregon trail. But Mexico did not regulate immigration in the Utah, California, or Oregon like we do today. If laws were broken... then Mexico would have prosecuted the settlers. But they didn't.

    Here's some facts on the topic (search utah history in wikipedia)...
    "Early in the Mexican-American War in late 1846, the United States had captured New Mexico and California, and the whole Southwest became U.S. territory upon the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, February 2, 1848".

    So technically they were trespassing for a year, but there was no immigration law regarding Utah at that time.

    Totally not the same situation today.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 19, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    We are bad people because we try to enforce our laws?

  • Che Payson, UT
    June 19, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    To Ernest T. Bass...What's your point. Using your logic, that means Mexico was illegally taken from the Native American populations by the Spanish and French. And prior to that, the Asians over the Bering Strait. And if you are part of the Mormon culture, Middle Eastern peoples established themselves here.

    So who's an illegal immigrant? Just about all of us. White Europeans were not the original immigrants.

    The point is, Ernest, we have a serious, uncontrolled problem. Close the borders since no one seems to care about entering the US illegally, and create a quick, fair, low cost system of immigration into this country....not the disaster that the Federal Govt. now uses...which is what we usually get from the Federal Govt.

  • a bit of reality Shawnee Mission, KS
    June 19, 2013 12:42 p.m.

    The inscription on the Statue of Liberty ought to be modified to read something like this:

    "If your tired, your poor, or your huddled masses yearning to breath free come near our borders, we'll send them back where they came from. And don't expect us to treat them much better than the border guards in Sudan would."

    God Bless America!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 19, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    White Europeans: The original illegal immigrants.
    In 1847 Utah was part of Mexico.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    June 19, 2013 11:01 a.m.

    I agree. I tried to enter Mexico from our border in Texas and was treated very badly. In fact arrogantly and mean. When I complained the custom officials just laughed at me. We should all write to Mexico and tell them to be more courteous. The border is also very bad between Southern Sudan and Northern Sudan and Southern Sudan and Uganda. There they just shoot you when you try to cross the border. Water, food, a bed? You must be joking.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    June 19, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    The problem is best solved by coming down hard on employers that hire illegal immigrants.

    Does the average person realize that when a family member is sick and dying in the US, people from south of the border of most often cut off from visiting them no matter how honest they are in their intentions to return? It's shameful.

    Eliminate the jobs and eliminate the unfair trade policies that keep Mexican farms for being able to compete with subsidized US produce. Who are the socialist? All those republican leaning COMMIE US farmers that insist on price support handouts.

    Stop the communist farmers!

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    Real Maverick says, "Why don't we ever talk about punishing businesses who break our laws"?

    Well... obviously we do. Everybody I know of who doesn't support illegal immigration supports some form of E-Verify to make sure businesses also have to obey the law, and to insure businesses are punished when they don't take due-diligence to prevent undocumented workers from committing identity theft and taking jobs that could otherwise benefit American families.

    Some specific instances where ICE cracked down on Businesses and people like you and Rocky Anderson cried like babies to get both the businesses and the individual offenders off without prosecution...

    1. In December 2006, immigration agents entered the Swift meat-packing plant in Hyrum, Utah, as part of the largest immigration enforcement raid on a business in U.S. history. About 1,300 undocumented workers were arrested.

    2. December 2001, immigration agents raided the Salt Lake International Airport, where 271 employees were fired and a third of them were arrested and charged with falsifying documents to get work in secure areas

    Remember how Rocky Anderson and other Liberals protested both raids?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    June 19, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    "One proposal I have favored is making those employers pay the cost of deporting each illegal that they have hired."

    Kind of unfair for the landscape owner to pay the same as Walmart.

    I say, link the penalty to the income of the employer. And make it harsh and likely.

    This will do far more to curb illegal immigration than a fence.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    June 19, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    @Maverick and Twin Lights:
    I have talked many times about the need to punish the employers who hire them.
    One proposal I have favored is making those employers pay the cost of deporting each illegal that they have hired. In addition the option to have their family deported with them so there is no separation has always been available.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    This article demonstrates why it is almost impossible to enforce our laws. Especially our immigration laws.

    When we think the Boarder Patrol should not intimidate anybody.. heck what's the whole purpose of HAVING a Boarder Patrol??? It's to intimidate people who are thinking of crossing in hopes of helping them decide NOT to cross!

    Why do you think some stores have a police officer standing at the door? It's to intimidate would-be shoplifters into deciding NOT to shoplift. The Border Patrol serves much the same function. They are there so would-be criminals know if they do the deed they are going to have very unpleasant consequences.

    If boarder patrol can't intimidate anybody who breaks our laws... should we require the officer in the mall to just tip his hat to people leaving with stolen merchandise? Because it could be embarrassing and inconvenient if he arrested them.

    I know this person's consideration for those coming to America illegally is well intended. But what is law if we don't enforce it? And enforcement of law is often unpleasant. Ask any of the 33% of American children with an incarcerated parent.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2013 8:37 a.m.

    One method of avoiding such abuses is to not enter this country illegally. It's not as though they are innocents who stray across the border inadvertently.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 19, 2013 8:28 a.m.

    Why are they coming here illegally?

    Why don't we ever talk about punishing businesses who break our laws? It's seriously so sickening to see them so blatantly thumb their noses at the American people. Punish businesses, force them to hire americans, and you would be amazed how few immigrants would come.

  • twells Ogden, UT
    June 19, 2013 7:18 a.m.

    Everyone makes a choice in life. No one is forcing people to cross our borders illegally. What is wrong with coming to America legally? What is wrong with securing our borders? We do need to fix the immigration system. I don't understand why those breaking the law should have special consideration just because they have a family. They are the ones that chose to put their family in jerpordy. Without rules there is chaos. Why can't they apply for citizenship? You or I would never dream of trying to enter a country illegally. The reality is in this day and age is there are to many people that want something for nothing. There is a price for freedom. There a a lot of hard working people in America that try to follow the rules. They help others in need. I am getting a little tired of making us out as not humane. No one in the world helps others like Americans. Now we have 8-11 million undocumented people in America-doing it their way-not our way. Stop giving a pass for breaking the laws of the land.

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2013 7:17 a.m.

    It is indeed a sad situation when many of the invaders into our country meet with injury and sometimes death but, knowing the possible threats, they bring in onto themselves.

    They should not be trespassing onto the sovereignty of another nation of which they do not belong.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    June 19, 2013 6:56 a.m.

    You seem to be slightly confused on some of your points.
    1. The choice to cross our borders without permission is against our laws. And choosing to cross in more remote areas in the hope of not being caught is no different than the burglar who chooses to break into the store in a remote area of town in the hope of not being caught. Would you say that our harsh laws force burglars to break into stores?
    2. Our actual needs for foreign labor cannot be determined accurately until we can collect data on how many jobs are still not filled after we have full employment for our citizens and have filled all of the visas allocated by the current law with nobody being hired without permission to work here.
    3. With 7.6% unemployment it would appear that we have no need at this time for any foreign workers.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    June 19, 2013 4:48 a.m.

    If there are abuses, that must be rooted out. As to the border being "militarized" and tough to cross, that is by design. Those detained should be treated humanely, but then sent back. In short, the border must be secure. No amount of security will catch all crossers, so an appropriate e-verify system should go national (this will address the reason people cross).

    None of this goes to the issue of those already here. For those who are just trying to work and live their lives, we need a compassionate and realistic solution (some are now being proposed). Sending them all back is simply unrealistic.

    There need be no conflict here between the goal of a strong border and treating those here with respect. But as much sympathy as I have for those here and their often difficult circumstances, I cannot get behind any legislation that does not get our borders under control.