I believe everything right wing radio tells me. Which means I must ignore
reality to get through my day.
Forgetting the "evil" Bush, and the walk in his shoes Obama - one asks,
ok, is the free for all snooping and collecting of billions of emails and phone
calls going to continue? Is the press to be monitored by the government? Is an
whole segrment of our society to be targeted by the IRS? It used to be
that the telephone company was only allowed phone taps under a court order of
'Just Cause.' Now we have a million count blanket order ordered by the
US governement - is this what we the citizens want?
June 2006, Denver Man Sues Secret Service for Arrest After He Criticized Cheney
on Iraq WarThe dismissal of U.S. Attorneys controversy was initiated
by the unprecedented midterm dismissal of seven United States Attorneys on
December 7, 2006, by the George W. Bush administration's Department of
Justice.Bush Warned of Hijackings Before 9-11 --- U.S. intelligence
officials warned President Bush weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin
Laden's terrorist network might hijack American planes, but White House
officials stressed the threat was not specific.A White House
official acknowledged to ABCNEWS that the information prompted administration
officials to issue a private warning to transportation department and national
security agencies weeks before the attacks.
one old man,"....What we all need to be REALLY worried about is
not the NSA, but the data mining of personal personal information far beyond
just our phone call records....."_____________________________You just hit the nail right on the head. The extensive records kept on
us by companies on such matters as our buying habits, credit scores, financial
holdings and on and on are used and sold to other companies without our
awareness. I don't hear any cries of outrage from the right wing when the
private sector does it and in the process sometimes breaks the law. Do you?
Atl134: I stand corrected, thanks for pointing out my error, which resulted from
looking at the wrong column for 2006. However, My mentioning the
Republican numbers had little to do with my main point that the CIA had
correctly predicted what would happen with Obama's election. You can bet
the CIA now considers Obama a valuable asset.If you go back to 2006
and look at the surveillance debate between the Dems and GOP, you'll find
the Republican arguments are virtually the same as those the Democrats are
making today.Whether by the left or right, supporting massive,
indiscriminate surveillance that destroys our privacy is destructive to the
health of a democracy.
One of the most frightening things happening in this country is the number of
people who accept without question the outright lies of people like Rush, Sean,
Glen and others who infest the airwaves of hate radio.What we all
need to be REALLY worried about is not the NSA, but the data mining of personal
personal information far beyond just our phone call records. Why aren't
Rush and Sean and Glen and the conservatives worked up over the involuntary
collection of information about us and our families by big corporations like
WalMart, Smith's Foods, banks, and countless other big money "free
enterprisers" who are recording everything we buy, when we buy it, where we
buy it and other data that should scare us all half to death.Is it
secret? Well, yes. They don't want you know they're collecting it. Yet
I can use Google to find any number of websites where I may -- for a small fee
-- learn virtually anything I want to learn about you, your children, your
finances and all sorts of juicy stuff.Could it have something to do
with money from the hate radio guys' corporate sponsors?
We now know that the Obama administration has used the I.R.S. to attack
citizens. We now know that the Obama administration has spied on the AP. We
now know that the Obama administration has spied on all of us by collecting
information about whom we have called, where we send emails, what websites we
visted and much more. We now know that the Obama administration is building a
huge facility in Bluffdale that will be used to "examine" and
"store" that information.Why are Obama's supporters not
asking where he got the authority to spy on us? Why do they think that Congress
can pass a "Patriot Act" that supercedes the Constitution? Why are they
not demanding that Obama obey his oath of office to defend the Constitution and
shut down NOW all illegal activities? Why do they defend him when they know
that he is ignoring the limits that the Constitution has placed on him?Why do they think that they will be exempt when all of that information is
processed and used against them?
@CLM"A Pew survey, published two weeks ago, tracking the partisan
shifts in views of NSA surveillance programs from 2006 to 2013, shows a full 61%
of Democrats against and only 37% pro-surveillance. However, June 2013 shows a
drastic turn-around, with 64% of Democrats now finding surveillance acceptable
and only 34% finding it unacceptable. (Republicans have remained almost 50-50
pro/con surveillance.)"That last sentence is incorrect.
The Pew poll notes that Republicans were 75-23 in favor of it in 2006 and are
52-47 now. That's a -23% shift (75->52) for Republicans vs +27% for
Democrats (37->64) so there's a lot of hypocrisy to go around. (Republicans would probably rationalize it by saying that in 2006 it
wasn't as widespread as now and Democrats would probably rationalize it by
saying that in 2006 the issue was illegal warrantless wiretapping rather than
the current thing which appears to be legal. I opposed it from the start and
lost in DC,"....He needs to remember it was BO who first
disdained the idea of American Exceptionalism...."______________________________Why should Gerson remember that?
It’s not how I remember that sorry episode when Mitt Romney
mischaracterized Obama’s view. Mitt was running for President.
That’s rationale enough for fomenting a bogus campaign issue. Obama the
politician understood that.America has no divine destiny to remake
the world in its image which how some read the concept of American
exceptionalism. But election of the first African-American President was
American exceptionalism that the world applauded.
A Pew survey, published two weeks ago, tracking the partisan shifts in views of
NSA surveillance programs from 2006 to 2013, shows a full 61% of Democrats
against and only 37% pro-surveillance. However, June 2013 shows a drastic
turn-around, with 64% of Democrats now finding surveillance acceptable and only
34% finding it unacceptable. (Republicans have remained almost 50-50 pro/con
surveillance.)This is exactly the result the CIA predicted would
happen in 2008 with Obama's election! This makes it abundantly clear that
"perception management" is being used as a tool by government and
military agencies to promote their agendas. The election of Barack H. Obama to
the presidency seemed to solve the challenge of winning over the Democrats.
@Mountanman"Well said Michael! But don't expect liberals to even
have the slightest comprehension what you are saying, they are so blinded by
their ideology and partisanship then can't even see the culture of
corruption they are creating."Uh... the writer SUPPORTS these
invasive programs. He was arguing against you (and I since, at least on the
issue we agree even if we vastly degree as to who is to blame for this...
incidentally I would blame people like Gerson who peddles even today the notion
that opposing expansion of gov't power is unpatriotic).
What is it about the current political speech that has Gerson so worried? What
“resistance” is he referring to? Is there an armed rebellion or
marauding mob of right-wingers? If there were, you can bet the leftist
“main stream” media would have been all over it. The closest
we’ve come to an organized mob was Occupy Wall Street, which said media
dutifully painted as peaceful, all-American political speech despite the
revolutionary communist flags and multiple rapes in the camps.Only
in the land of butterflies and lollipops can the assertion be made that there
are no nefarious intentions or actions of those in power. Apparently, Gerson is
disappointed that not all of us are lemmings that have come to accept that those
in power have pure intentions. I agree with James Madison: “All men
having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree”. That includes
Republicans, Democrats, and anyone else. The good news is that
there are checks and balances in our form of government, the largest and most
powerful of which is (or ought to be) the voice of the American people...despite
what Gerson may think.
@george of the jungle"Why hasn't impeachment's
began."Because Benghazi involved intelligence errors, not
crimes. The IRS scandal involved lower level officials. The NSA thing is, as far
as we can tell so far... completely legal (because we passed the laws that made
it legal). If you're going to impeach the president you kinda need an
impeachable offense. @Mountanman"Your hero Obama spent
nearly a trillion taxpayer dollars bailing out banks"First off,
the bailout started under Bush (passed in late 2008 before the election) when he
and Democrats worked together to pass it. Secondly, the loans given to banks
were paid back so we actually made some money off of it (through interest
payments by the banks on those loans)."killed thousands of
innocent people in sovereign countries with drone attacks"You
only support civilian deaths in land wars then? Because we had way more civilian
deaths in Iraq than from drones.
Everything these days is being overblown and shrouded in hyperbole. It's
Gerson asks how is possible to even love such an Amerika. He needs to remember
it was BO who first disdained the idea of American Exceptionalism. We cannot
love what BO is trying to make us, because it is the failed European model. “The continuity of anti-terrorism efforts across two
administrations…” Verixon reports requests for data have increased
15% each of the past 5 years (BO administration – not bush)“The introduction of extreme political polarization into this debate
could be debilitating.”But it was OK when BO did it for
Obamacare or for gun control or when the dems did it to attack Ryan’s
budget or Romney’s anything.Traditional conservatism
recognizes the balancing of principles — in this case, security and
privacy —I would consider Patrick Henry very traditional
– the prior statement would curl his toes.“Questioning
the legitimacy of our government is the poisoning of patriotism.”Uh, were you around during the bush administration? If so, where was this
complaint then?This is a complete whitewash. The Japanese really
could have used Gerson 12/8/1941.DN - this does NOT violate your
mountanman..of course, but thousands? Hardly.
Best editorial yet by Gerson. I find it troubling that so many of the
self-proclaimed "patriots" in this country are only patriotic if their
leaders see the world through the same extremist glasses as they do. The quotes
from Limbaugh and his ilk are enough to make any sane person wonder what planet
these right-wing voices are from.
For 12 YEARS I've spoken out against the Bush Patriot Act.For
12 YEARS - I - a veteran who has served, have been ridiculed for NOT supporting
Bush's Ghestapo Surveillance and Trampling of that 'blankity-blank
piece of paper' the Constitution and not being a True Patriot, NOT being a
TRUE American, [ie., Tea Party Conservative, DittoHead].For 12 YEARS
I told conservatives that a national gun registry wasn't even necessary
because of all the spying the Bush "Patriot Act" was allowing on ALL
citizens [not just the paranoid AM hate radio listeners].Don't
say I didn't tell you so.Don't act so surprised.Don't
even THINK of blaming the 'Obama regime' for using Bush's
tactics.Who's sorry now?
"Questioning the legitimacy of our government is the poisoning of
patriotism. It is offensive for the same reasons it was offensive when elements
of the left, in the 1960s and 1970s, talked of the American "regime."______________________________Right on the mark. As Gerson points
out, both left and right have been guilty of it when their party is the one on
the outside looking in after election day. Bush and Obama are successive
Presidents who as such led or lead successive Administrations, not regimes. How
sad that choosing language that shows proper respect is not cool or hip, as we
often say. Sniping from the gutter apparently feels more macho for some. And the
more you do it, the more justified the other side feels in getting down on all
fours with you.Not everyone does it. The Deseret News does make an
admirable effort to make civility and restraint the standards for their
discussion boards. I appreciate that.
Proclaiming threats to national security is a very old game. I recall that Pres.
Lyndon Johnson made it a dominant campaign theme, warning that Sen. Barry
Goldwater, if elected to the presidency, was destined to take us into nuclear
war. In fact, nearly every presidential camaign in US history has featured dire
warnings and overblown threats. I'm an unabashed patriot,
while still recognizing that the constitution has been taking a beating. This
nation can stand a lot of abuse and still maintain its nobler ideals. The only
way America will falter is if we lose those ideals.
Prag. Don't you remember Obama apologizing to Pakistan and Afghan
governments for collateral damage drone strike deaths in both countries?
Who did Bush put in jail for opposing him politically? Just one name please?
Mountanman..do you realize that Michael when talking about poisoning was
criticizing the supposedly conservative critics? Obama has killed
"thousands" of innocents in sovereign countries with "drones"?
Mind backing up that claim? And the rest of your claims, IRS scandals, NSA etc.
etc. are exactly what Gerson is criticizing. Talk about making his point for
Goldfish I tell ya, goldfish.It was BUSH that bailed out the banks,
fired lawyers that weren't"good republicans",tried to put
people in jail for opposing him politically with said, "good republican"
prosecutors, spent trillions on nation building and allowed 9/11 and the economy
to crash on his watch. And YOU defended him everyday!
@ Maverick. Your hero Obama spent nearly a trillion taxpayer dollars bailing out
banks and unions, has killed thousands of innocent people in sovereign countries
with drone attacks and loves unconstitutional programs like the patriot act, IRS
abuses, NSA abuses, Benghazi, fast and furious scandals, AP debacles and more.
Any you have the nerve to complain about Bush? Do you hear laughter?
Trust and respect are earned. Why hasn't impeachment's began.
Ill keep this article in mind next time I'm accused of being a traitor to
this country when I don't support a repub president's unprovoked
invasion of a sovereign country, or bank bailouts, or unconstitutional programs
(like the patriot act).
Oh boy, here we go again. All who oppose what the government is doing are
"unpatriotic." How long before we hear that we're un-American,
then"if you're not for us you're against us"? Bush is back for
a 4th term. Gerson is offering more Kool-Aid, but I'm not having it.
I'm a recovering neocon and I'm not going back there.
That's right, its all Obama's fault; lets simply forget that it was
the prior president, a Republican, who started the spying and signed the Patriot
Act. Anybody could have guessed that it would just get more intrusive as time
went on, regardless who was president.
"Because it distorts America into something unrecognizable in order to
advance a partisan ideology. Because this is still the "last best hope of
earth," not a police state. Because Americans have fought and died for this
country, and to turn on her in this way is noxious. It is dishonest. And it is
dishonorable."Well said Michael! But don't expect liberals to
even have the slightest comprehension what you are saying, they are so blinded
by their ideology and partisanship then can't even see the culture of
corruption they are creating.
It does more than poison patriotism, it poisons the entire country. But, this
is standard practice with the Dear Leader. If you don't agree with his
socialist agenda, you are an enemy of his state.