Birth and citizenship

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  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 13, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    @higv & Tyler D;

    You should check out the book '1491'; it is a very interesting history of the Native Americans before the Spanish arrived. According to the journals of those who first arrived and saw them; they had a vast, functioning civilization as good or better than those in Europe did - it just wasn't as mechanical. The natives flourished until European diseases decimated the populations. Any civilization will crumble if you kill of 90% of the people; dead people can no longer help the survivors maintain their civilization. Just think what would happen to us if 90% of the people here suddenly up and died in just a season.

  • Turtles Run Missouri City, TX
    June 11, 2013 12:26 p.m.

    The SCOTUS has ruled that the citizenship of the parents is irrelevant concerning the granting of US citizenship to a child born within our borders.

    @Roland Kayser

    Children of diplomats and foreign soldiers are excluded because they are here as representatives of a foreign nation.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    June 10, 2013 3:24 p.m.


    Not sure how interesting, not to mention off topic any of this is, but you’re right – the vast majority of native americans comprised those three tribes. By the way, estimates for North America are around 2 to 5 million which given the land mass supports my “small tribes” statement.

    Scientists estimate at least 80% (probably more) of the three tribes you mention were done in by disease… not sure who we should blame for this “microbial genocide.”

    And given the populations of Central America today, I’ll stand by the “population explosion” statement.

    I totally lost track of the point… oh yeah, that white people (and by extension the U.S. and the Constitution) are evil and brown/red people are good (have you studied the Aztecs… they were the Terminators of pre-columbian America).

    And that was the only hyperbolic view I was attempting to add a little perspective to…

  • SLars Provo, UT
    June 10, 2013 1:16 p.m.

    It was an amendment to the constitution. A change to it, and it can be changed again.

    Determining citizenship of a baby in the hospital would be easier than processing 11+ million people, running background checks etc. Just like a drivers license, a recent birth certificate of one of the parents would work.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    June 10, 2013 12:59 p.m.

    I think you’re still a bit confused… native americans lived throughout the continent in very small tribes for thousands of years. It was only when Spanish blood and more importantly Spanish religion was introduced did their population (now mostly Spanish) explode.


    You're history is a bit backwards. Please see what effects the Spanish had on the Incans, Myans and Aztecs and their population explosion.

    It is estimated that before Columbus, there were between 50 and 100 million native inhabitants of North and South America. Today there are 5 million. If anything, one could argue genocide on the part of the Spanish.

    Make no mistake, our European ancestors did them no favors.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    June 10, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    Just like many of you,
    I was born in Salt Lake City, Utah.

    Therefore, CONSTITUTIONALLY we are all American Citizens.

    It had nothing ZERO to do with who our parents were, or where our parents were from.

    Please stop trampling the Constitution.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    Just think........IF the borders would have been secured, as promised back in '86 - we wouldn't be experiencing this issue.

    I can understand the writers frustration. BUT, the 14th amendment is the law. Also, consider how difficult it would be to determine WHICH babies born in our hospitals have legal status U.S. parents. His proposal would add a whole new bureaucratic layer to determine legal status of parents.

    His proposal, (even if we didn't have the 14th amendment)would be very costly to implement.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    June 10, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    The 14th admendment was to assure that the children of slaves were given citizenship. I don't think the law is relevant now, and is being abused. We need to amend the amendment, and require at least one parent to be a citizen.

    The old switcheroo

    Acts 17:26
    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation

    It appears your wrong.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    June 10, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    @the old switcheroo – “People from Mexico and Guatemala are as native american as anyone else”

    I think you’re still a bit confused… native americans lived throughout the continent in very small tribes for thousands of years. It was only when Spanish blood and more importantly Spanish religion was introduced did their population (now mostly Spanish) explode.

    So yes, they are as native as, say, my insurance agent neighbor John Smith who is 1/32 Cherokee.

    Not sure who the rest of your comment was directed toward as I never espoused (or excused) any of those things. I simply pointed out the reality of how all the lands on the planet came to be populated.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 12:08 a.m.

    Higv, you make an excellent point that immigrants are STILL endowed by the creator the right to traverse borders to make a living.

    Tyler D, I am not confusing anyone. You are confusing borders with genetics. People from Mexico and Guatemala are as native american as anyone else. Many have Spanish blood that was forced on them but MANY do not.

    You just believe in conquering when it is convenient and the constitution when it's convenient. Immigrants from the south are just trying to work and earn a living not take anyone's land.

    And if our ancestors actually practiced the Christian religion that supposedly founded this nation, yes, they would have turned around and left rather than murder million of people.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    June 9, 2013 9:24 p.m.

    @the old switcheroo – “We took the entire US by force from the ancestors of the very people you are talking about.”

    I think you’re confusing Native Americans with the descendants of Cortez…

    But even granting your assertion, why is it that since that time north of the Rio Grande developed in the great economy the world has ever known, while south of the Rio Grande… not so much?

    It doesn’t excuse history – although pretty much every country in the world was “taken” from one group by another group at some point in time – but what people do to create a better world should matter at least as much as how their ancestors came to the land.

    Doesn’t mean the U.S. is perfect, but there’s a reason why the “land of opportunity” is located north of the river and not south… and it has very little to do with the land itself.

  • spicey saltlakecity, UT
    June 9, 2013 6:41 p.m.

    Is being called a Racist civil dialogue?

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 6:33 p.m.

    RE: the old switcharoo's comment.

    Technically half of the ancestors of the people we allegedly took land from were Spanish Conquistadors who sort of came in and conquered, ruled and intermarried much of North America and all of Central and South America. Peoples have been moving and either conquering, mixing in with, or wind up being conquered for millenia. Indian tribes contested areas long before Anglos showed up. We just modernized and mechanized the process.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    June 9, 2013 6:13 p.m.

    Again we witness the Trampling - rather than the defense of - of the Constitution by the radical Right.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    June 9, 2013 6:07 p.m.

    How did all of these posters above me obtain their citizenship? Just curious.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    June 9, 2013 4:15 p.m.

    isrred shows us how calling people racist has been completely misused, to the country's detriment. Don't be fooled and don't tolerate others being called a racist, when they are not.

    There is no reference to race in this letter. The illegal alien parents could be of any race and they are still illegal aliens. It has nothing to do with race, or country of origin, as long as it is other than the US.

    Playing the race card shows that legitimate arguments don't exist for their side, so name calling is the strategy instead. There really should be a label equal to this despicable practice. Playing the race card in this way diminishes the address of real racism today, and hurts our nation, i.e. We the People.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    June 9, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    The 14th amendment was intended for Slaves and Indians born in this country not people visiting or people here illegally. Old Switcharo were our anscestors supposed to turn around and go back? I am tired of people making us feel guilty for coming to America legally. We outconquered the Indians who were fighting each other for centuries before we came here.

    Conquering has been going on for millennia before we came here and conquered people lived with the conquerors. Besides any Indians want to live like there Anscestors did right now?

    June 9, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    Actually, the child has dual citizenship at the time of birth.

  • Demo Dave Holladay, UT
    June 9, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    The concept of using "anchor babies" to secure a future in America by and for criminals is abhorrent. (Yes, if you're here illegally, you're a criminal.) The very term "anchor baby" should arouse anger in Americans. We are being exploited and our leaders are allowing it to happen. If these babies are Americans by birth, then I'm a Russian cosmonaut.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    June 9, 2013 9:54 a.m.

    Think of why the 14th amendment was written.

    It was written in a time when slaves were not considered citizens. To follow your logic, their children would never have been citizens, having been born to non citizens.

    To break that cycle we had to grant citizenship to everyone born here, regardless of parents nationality.

    I for one am glad to have the 14 amendment, my citizenship can never be called into question.

  • isrred South Jordan, UT
    June 9, 2013 8:21 a.m.

    Extreme abuse of the 14th amendment? The amendment is crystal clear: "All persons BORN or naturalized in the United States...are citizens of the United States"

    The last sentence of this letter is one of the most offensive and racist things I've seen the DesNews print. Shame on you for propping up this kind of thinking.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 9, 2013 8:05 a.m.

    Here's a hypothetical example: A Norwegian diplomat stationed in the U.S. gives birth while in the U.S. The child will be issued a birth certificate by the hospital. As an adult, should that child decide that he wants to become a U.S. citizen, he could come here, present his birth certificate, and obtain U.S. citizenship without any legal questions arising.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 6:37 a.m.

    I use recycled paper all the time, and it works just fine. I don't think the 14th amendment was written on recycled paper, but as a supporter of the Constitution, I think it is as "authentic" as the paper on which the original Constitution was written, because it became part of the Constitution through the process specified by the Constitution. It looks like the author just wants to pick and choose which provisions of the Constitution he agrees with, and ignore the others as inauthentic, without repealing them in the manner the Constitution prescribes. What irony.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    June 9, 2013 5:52 a.m.

    Grumpy old men....Read some history. We took the entire US by force from the ancestors of the very people you are talking about. From the trail of tears to the Treaty of Guadalupe at gunpoint you can't talk about immigration intelligently without historical context.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 4:14 a.m.

    And they systematically exploit this misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment -- by the tens of millions.