The problem, Truthseeker, is who gets to decide the difference between
"social welfare" and "political activities"? I don't know
about you, but I think the Tea Party is a huge force for positive social
welfare, and that ofc ourse involves political action. The Whole idea that
there's a clear difference between "social welfare" and
"political action" is an impossible myth, since many, if not most,
political pressure groups are motivated by what they believe is good for this
country. That's why we have a political system. I think the
IRS needs to get OUT of the business altogether of trying to decide if the Tea
Party should be tax exempt vs. Greenpeace or labor unions, because that will
always, by definition, be fraught with human bias. And so far, it's
obvious to the point of being admitted by Obama himself that the IRS was clearly
favoring liberal groups and illegally - possibly criminally - intimidating
@pragmatistferlife "Just what does that mean?"This: Big
Government can only be sold to people who hold the illusion that it won't
be used against them. The Obama administration has shattered this illusion.
Obama will never be able to sell another expansion of government. His agenda is
now dead in the water.And this: Obama's signature
accomplishment, Obamacare, depends upon the Internal Revenue Service for
enforcement. He will be asking the public to trust that their health care will
be administered fairly and impartially by the IRS. No one will believe it.
The brilliant president who knows everything now knows nothing about political
IRS practices that have gone on for years? Thank you Jay Carney.
Maybe we should wait for and hear the facts before we jump to any
conclusions.The Diane Rehm show on NPR (available in UT) had an
excellent program discussing this issue.I can tell you Presidents
and Congress develop and pass laws. Pres. Obama isn't involved the IRS
implementation of law.What we really need to do is to revise our
campaign laws so that we don't have these types of opaque quasi-political
organizations masquerading as something else. The law says 401c-4s must be
EXCLUSIVELY involved in social welfare as opposed to political activities for
tax-ezempt status. However, the IRS for the past many years has interpreted the
law as requiring organizations to be PRIMARILY involved in social welfare
activities.Let's pass the Disclose Act requiring:any group that spends $10,000 or more on election ads, or any other political
activity, to file a disclosure report with the FEC and to disclose donors who
gave $10,000 or more and provide a statement from the group’s head
ratifying that there was no coordination with any campaign, which is illegal.
At this point no conservative groups have stated their applications were
rejected by the IRS, while one liberal group (Emerge America) had theirs
HV Heretic,Yet somehow, liberal groups and labor union-backed groups
- which exploded at a far greater rate than conservative groups - were not also
singled out for the political equivalent of body cavity searches. I suppose
that's because conservative Tea Party groups don't promote the social
welfare and are mostly political, but liberal groups OBVIOUSLY promote the
social welfare and are above being political. Nah, that's not
biased at all. Nothing to see here, people, just the noble IRS responsibly
scrutinizing groups which don't promote social welfare and are mostly
political...which, as we all know, means "conservative."
This has been a liberal tactic for a while. The Clintons threatened to remove
tax-exempt status from churches they deemed to be too politically active, and at
the time a general observation was made that conservative nonprofits are
regularly targetted by government auditors. It needs to stop.
I've been audited. These folks weren't even audited!! Their
application was essentially subject to review to see if they were eligible for
tax exempt status.Was it based on the difficulty of determining if
the majority of these particular groups' activities were to 1) promote
social welfare, or 2) engage in political activity?The particular
section of law they are applying under requires that the groups are for
"promoting social welfare," yet all Tea Party groups were clearly
engaged in loud, blatant and very public political activities.Simply
sending a memo that says, "Hey folks, it looks like those 'tea
party' groups are mostly political. Be sure to check social welfare
activity is valid," seems perfectly acceptable to me.
Nate, Obama is all done. You realize that, don't you? Just what does that
mean? Do you think he's going to resign, get impeached and run out of
office? If you mean the later I'd say no he's not done. So far all the Republicans have been able to accomplish the past five years is
to churn up a whole lot of smoke and run around yelling fire, fire. To be blind
to the differences between covering up a common criminal act of burglary, lying
under oath, and having subordinates change talking points, or administrative
branches possibly overstep legal and authorized functions doesn't help the
country or your cause. It simply looks desperate. Which of course it is.
Mountanman - "It's all Bush's fault, right Demos?"That Douglas Shulman was acting commissioner when this all took place and the
fact that he was a Bush appointee certainly shines a different light on your
outrage.Maybe them libs got to him?
How much more corruption must America endure before the press becomes the
"attack dog" on Obama that it was on Nixon?
Of all the chilling realizations I have had about Barack Obama, this is the
most chilling. In business we talk about 'the tone at the top'
meaning the leaders of a company set the tone for the whole company. The
President sets the tone for his whole administration. The lower level IRS knew
their actions would win the President's approval
@pragmatistferlife "...if the title of your organization is Tea Party
Patriots you're an easy target."Yeah, I'm sure that
other political persuasions were next on their list. It's just that
"patriot" falls before "progressive" in alphabetical order.Obama is all done. You realize that, don't you?
"In truth, this mess goes all the way to the White House."Well, I guess that settles it. Thanks for saving us all that time looking
"While the first stop in this travesty is at the IRS main office. In truth,
this mess goes all the way to the White House."______________________________Don't hold back. Share with us
whatever hot news tip you've got. If the Deseret News finds an independent
confirmation, you'll be handing them a news scoop that will make the DN the
envy of every daily in the country.
While the first stop in this travesty is at the IRS main office. In truth, this
mess goes all the way to the White House.
I read the op-ed, expecting the usual diet of red meat designed to send the
usual suspects headlong into conspiracy city.I stand surprised and
amazed at the tone of the op-ed. Thank you DN for your balanced
assessment of this issue.
Moderate,I'm sorry, but the two are not comparable at all. The
IRS investigated those three because of specific, identifiable events which were
clearly in support of a specific candidate (big no-no), as opposed to just
broadly partisan for a particular viewpoint (kosher). For example, the NAACP
was investigated by the IRS because Julian Bond, its then-director, gave what
amounted to a campaign speech for John Kerry. THAT is what the IRS is SUPPOSED
to investigate according to current law, and they were exonerated anyway. But
there was never a pattern of Bush going after liberal groups in general in a
clearly coordinated effort to intimidate them into inaction, which is what the
IRS has been doing to conservative groups. Small wonder since IRS staff, then
and now, and overwhelmingly liberal.I actually think the whole idea
that tax exempt status depends on being nonpartisan is ridiculous anyway, since
human beings are ALWAYS partisan by nature to some degree, and to ask Greenpeace
or the Tea Party to try to "act" nonpartisan in order to get tax
exemption ignores reality and is frankly unjust.
"Both major parties should initiate investigations."Absolutely.We've already forgotten that under George W Bush, the IRS went
after the NAACP, Greenpeace, and even All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasedena
after the pastor criticized President Bush's preemptive strike doctrine.
The IRS should not be a tool of harassment by any President.
It is ironic that the cover picture for this story is that of BIll Clinton. His
inability to distinguish between a truth and a lie is legendary. On further
reflection, that may equate with the IRS.
Another Giant step towards Communism UNLESS swift steps are taken to clean
house. Really..Communisim? What century is this?
Another Giant step towards Communism UNLESS swift steps are taken to clean
house.We the people need to stand united against this nonsense.
"....Someone is bound to blame the Supreme Court's "Citizens
United" decision for leading to these problems. That decision held that the
First Amendment prohibits the government from restricting how corporations,
associations or labor unions spend money on political causes...."______________________________That's true but it isn't
the issue in the IRS auditing a tax return of someone filing for tax exempt
status for what might be a political contribution to a PAC. That's illegal
and falls under the scope of IRS responsibility.
Obama's "outrage" is because his IRS got caught in criminal
activity, again. The IRS has been used by Obama before to attack the Koch
Brothers, Mitt Romney, Mitt's supporters and others. This most certainly is
NOT an isolated incident perpetrated by low level underlings is one office.
Someone is bound to blame the Supreme Court's "Citizens United"
decision for leading to these problems. That decision held that the First
Amendment prohibits the government from restricting how corporations,
associations or labor unions spend money on political causes." Citizens
United is actually at the heart of the problem. Pre Citizens United 501(c)4s
were organizations that promoted the public welfare, by doing things like
buying books for schools, building food pantries etc. They were prohibited
from having as their sole purpose influencing public policy, right or left.
Then CU came along and Karl Rove saw his chance.An organization who's
only purpose is political should have their 501c status request scrutinized,
regardless if they are conservative or liberal, but frankly if the title of your
organization is Tea Party Patriots you're an easy target.
It's all Bush's fault, right Demos?
The abuses were not isolated to one branch in Cincinnati, as the administration
has tried to pretend. Incidents are now being reported from locations around the
country, including Washington, D.C. This one goes to the top.Obama
wanted to be FDR, and now he's Nixon.