Happy Valley HereticOrem, UTMike Richards said:Benghazi makes
Watergate look like a Sunday School picnic. It's time that Obama was held
accountable for his actions as Commander In Chief. It's time that everyone
involved in the Benghazi cover-up be held accountable. Lives were lost. American
lives. Mike on Democratic's - Guilty until proven guilty.10:32 a.m. May 13, 2013============ Amazing...Happy Valley Heretic makes a GREAT point, by
simply pointing out a huge double-standard and factual hypocrasy by someone who
continally puts Party Politics ahead of being truely honest and showing moral
integrity regardless of party affiliation.And then we see J
Thompson, L White and 2 bits also chime in reflecting the same double-standard
hypocrasy!Birds-of-a-feather is all I can say.BTW - I stand by
my word, I'm still willng to back an Obama investigation over
Benghazi, just as soon as you're willing to take that beam out of you
eyes over GWBush's invasion of Iraq over phoney WMDs.and add to
that Utah's AG John Swallows investigation as well.
Who is served by dragging out the investigation? The people aren't served
(because Swallow and his department are distracted and can't to their jobs
effectively). Swallow surely doesn't benefit from having to live under
this suspicion longer than necesary. Who benefits from dragging
this thing out? Only the News/Media people who sell more papers or get more
listeners when there's a salacious/contraversial headline. Maybe Democrats
(and Republican haters) feel like they are getting some sort of morbid benefit
out of this dragging out. Possibly Republicans benefit from stalling it
(though I doubt if he is eventually found guilty of something that it would be
any more embarrasing than all the suspicion sown by the media in the
meantime).Nobody I know of wants this to drag out longer. The
people don't. Swallow doesn't. Only the party leaders, lawers, and
the news media benefit from dragging it out. Do what's right and get it
He's a republican so we all know he has class and ethics.
It s a simple concept that the chief law enforcement official be beyond
reproach, not approachable under suspicious circumstances.
@Mike L Thomas So when it comes to swallow the newspapers are speculating
unfairly not presenting the "facts" but when it comes to Benghazi thath
as an ongoing invesitgation as well they should speculate before all the
"facts" are known? I think I got it now? Exactly how are you different
from the people you complain about again?
I won't be the hypocrite Mike often is. The President and the Department
of State should be fully investigated for Benghazi as should John Swallow and
Mike Shurtleff and perhaps the governor for these latest issues. The press has
a role to play by bringing this news to the public. The lack of coverage in the
former situation is disturbing I have to admit, the Utah press actually has done
a decent job but probably could do better.
@mike richards posting defenses of yourself under various sign ins only
reaffirms happy valley heretics point as I distinctly remember your outrage of
people using anonymous or various names in the past.
When Mr. Johnson made is initial claims against Mr. Swallow, I was in favor of
waiting until the feds investigation was completed and went public. Now we have
accusations from Mr. Jensen, who claims to have documents to prove his claims;
we have election law violation claims; and an ethics violation claim to the
State Bar. Where does it stop?The accumulations of accusations
creates distractions which impairs the AG's office to fully carryout its
workload requirements. It is an ongoing black eye to Utah as well. Mr. Swallow
needs to step down now and spend whatever time he needs to clear his name, if
indeed it can be cleared. And if he does happen to clear his name, he can then
run again for election. But the only right thing to do right now is for Mr.
Swallow to step down now.
Remember... Just because your paraniod doesn't mean they're
aren't after you. And just because their after you doesn't mean
you're paranoid. News headlines or OPED pieces can make him
LOOK guilty, but that doesn't mean he IS guilty. Anybody who watches
Dateline, 20/20, etc, knows they can totally convince you of the conclusion they
want. They frequently tell a crime story and have me totally convinced
he's guilty, then they say "when we come back well expose some other
details that may cause you to question your whole conclusion"... and after
the break they may have you totally convinced he's innocent, or at least
put your previous presumption into serious question. so yes, the investigation
is needed and if they find serious accusations... a trial is needed (to do it
the Constitutional way).
I've never understood why this is so complicated. Any school teacher or
police officer would have their conduct immediately investigated by the State.
Nobody ever waits for Law Enforcement to do it for them in those cases. There is
no excuse for the foot dragging as this editorial makes clear. Just get it done
Certainly Mr. Swallow is entitled to the presumption of innocence in a court of
law and a trial by a jury of his peers. Neither the Deseret News nor any poster
on this thread has suggested otherwise. The presumption of innocence applies
only to the legal process; individuals (and newspapers) are free to express
their views.I don't think the Deseret News is editorilizing
about Mr. Swallow because it will sell newspapers. I believe the editors'
criticism of Mr. Swallow is genuine. Mike Richards says the
Deseret News shouldn't criticize Mr. Swallow. Yet he accuses the Deseret
News for selling its integrity for readership. That seems inconsistent to me.
Today's editorial verbiage suggests it is a lawyers product. Instead of
receiving a lesson on English common law, most hoped for a quick thorough
investigation and resolution. When many of the facts are in dispute, quick
correct justice is impossible. Everybody should buckle up for the difficult
ride. Of course, if these allegations had been known before the election, the
political system (the voters) could have handled it. Now, because of one party
power in this State, and for better or for worse, we are stuck with at least two
judicial investigations and possibly more.
This editorial really disturbs me. It seems to me that the rights of a citizen
are being ignored so that a newspaper can make a few more sales. When one
poster appealed to us to remember that as Americans, we have the right to be
tried and to face our accusers. He called for a trial and for the appropriate
prison time if Mr. Swallow is found guilty. He called for an end of
"speculation" and "gossip" in the press. He was shouted
down.I guess it means nothing to be an American. I guess that it
means nothing to be innocent until proven guilty. I guess that all that matters
is how the mob feels about someone. Let's just throw out all law and let
that mob mete out "justice". Let's let the mob decide whether
Caesar gives a "thumbs up" or a "thumbs down" in this media
circus. When people think so little of law, they deserve the circus
that they desire.
Mr. Swallow needs to step down. We were warned by many voices before the
election that this candidate was used to skating close to a thin line, but a
highly reputable and successful district attorney was not elected because he was
a Democrat.I wish people in this state would open their eyes and take a look at
what they are doing.
The air needs to be cleared in a non partisan manner. It doesn't look as if
that is happening now. Democrats are in a feeding frenzy and Republicans appear
to be looking the other way.
Let me jump in here for a minute. What Mike Richards said is absolutely
correct. As usual, there are those whose only job is to attack Mike Richards
and others who tell the truth, who demand that newspapers limit themselves to
journalism, who stand for the Constitution. One poster brought up
Benghazi and tried to smear Mike Richards because Mike demands accountability
from Obama and the others who tried to coverup Benghazi. What is the difference
between Benghazi and Swallow? The Deseret News and other newspapers continue to
"speculate" about Swallow. The Deseret News HAS reported about
Benghazi, but MOST newspapers have only "reported" what the White House
wants them to report about Benghazi. A citizen must demand
accountability from those who are elected. A citizen must demand that those who
are elected tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. When the
truth is not told by elected officials, the "4th branch" of government
(newspapers) are duty bound to inform the citizens. That has not happened with
Benghazi. There is a huge difference between Benghazi and Swallow.
Swallow's deeds have been reported. He deserves a trial. Benghazi has not
been truthfully reported by most newspapers.
Mike Richards said:Benghazi makes Watergate look like a Sunday School
picnic. It's time that Obama was held accountable for his actions as
Commander In Chief. It's time that everyone involved in the Benghazi
cover-up be held accountable. Lives were lost. American lives. Mike
on Democratic's - Guilty until proven guilty.
My journalism professor at BYU pounded into the class that Who, What, Where,
When were the questions. "How" was to left to the editorial board
unless "how" was relevant to the story.Those "facts"
have been told. The Deseret News, and other newspapers, have done their duty to
report the facts concerning John Swallow. If new "facts" emerge, the
newspapers should report those facts. Those who want tabloid
journalism want to see citizens dragged through the streets at the end of a
rope. They want the opponents of those citizens to spread gossip and innuendo.
They want newspapers to "report" that gossip and innuendo as
"news". Let them buy their tabloids at the grocery store. Let the
Deseret News print facts and facts only. Let the Courts use facts
("evidence") to judge misconduct.If the Court finds
misconduct, then let John Swallow spend time in prison, but let him have his day
in court without newspapers printing gossip and innuendo. Let
Three facts that both John Swallow and his predecessor, Mark Shurtleff, do not
dispute:1. Marc Sessions Jenson was convicted of a Ponzi Scheme in
2008, and ordered to pay over $4 million in victim restitution.2.
Jenson is in prison now because he did not pay one dime of the ordered
restitution.3. Since conviction, Shurtleff and Swallow each
individually received more from Jenson than Jenson's victims received.
"The courts are the proper place to discuss John Swallow, not the newspaper.
Every citizen in America is presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. Let the Court
PROVE John Swallow guilty. Until he is PROVEN guilty, let those who would
crucify him in the media hold their accusations."Mr Richards.
It would be refreshing is you took that approach to all political
issues. Not just those who are Republican.
Mr. Richards,You must be friends with Mr. Swallow because your judgement
is seriously clouded. Swallow is a public figure. It can and should be in the
newspaper. Something tells me if Swallow was a democrat your defense of swallow
would be quite different. In fact, I know that it would. Swallow clearly does
not represent Utah's values. Time to go.
The courts are the proper place to discuss John Swallow, not the newspaper.
Every citizen in America is presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. Let the
Court PROVE John Swallow guilty. Until he is PROVEN guilty, let those who would
crucify him in the media hold their accusations.Participating in
"media justice" shows only that the media is more concerned with selling
newspapers than with the rights of a citizen to a fair trial when he has the
opportunity to face his accusers.
We need an AG whose ethics and honesty are above reproach, not one who
continually seems to be skirting the line when it comes to ethics. Even if
investigation ultimately determines that no laws were "technically"
broken in Swallow's conduct, the very fact that he seems to frequently walk
the bare edge of the ethical line compromises his credibility and destroys
trust. Meanwhile, as the slow process of investigations and hearings grinds on,
the public his stuck with an AG office hamstrung by the unresolved questions.
The state deserves and needs better. I voted for Swallow. I now believe
it's time for him to step aside.
The DNews has been persistent in its call to investigate Swallow, as it should
be. However, it has been appallingly silent about likewise calling for an
investigation into the part that Harry Reid and the Democrats played.The DNews calls for justice, but then ignores the fact that Johnson has
implicated Reid in his part of the case just as much as Swallow. How is it
"justice" to call only for a one-sided investigation?If
Swallow is corrupt, he must be removed from office. But the same goes for Reid,
and there must be a full and complete investigation into his involvement.
Wouldn't it be simple to ask both Mr Swallor and Mr Shurtlift the question
did you both stay at the luxury condo in Newport Beach and charge items to Mr
Sessions account?A simple yes or no answer would be easy to
verify.Why are we not asking this question?