West side bias

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  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    April 26, 2013 1:18 a.m.

    Public transport is expensive. It can be done to an excess if we are not careful. It is a public service provided by the government that brings about much good. It allows many people to become self-reliant and more independent. They can travel to and keep jobs that otherwise might not be able to them. In many areas government has stepped far out of the bounds of its intended purpose. Spending is wildly irresponsible, inefficient and wasteful. We are spending our grand children's money right now. But this is an example of it helping those who need it and something that will benefit.

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 25, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    Procura, you have no idea how the tax structure works for UTA do you? They get their money from sales tax but only within the counties that they operate. So the rest of the state doesn't really pay for a service that they cannot use. I also have no idea why you harbor such vehement hatred of the East-Bench crowd, which btw isn't all that well served by light rail or buses. Now that the whining is dealt with let me ask what other system of transportation would you use? Would you advocate more buses clogging the roads? Would you advocate everyone driving? Bike sharing? Flight suits? Or instant teleportation?

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 25, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    Tooele, UT

    1. re-read my post -- I used UTA, not just TRAX, for my daily ridership of mass transit numbers.

    2. You've obviously never traveled or lived outside of the little Utah bubble. Mass transit is THE answer for the problems of large congested metropolitan areas.

    3. I know your type - you don't like change of any sort [the fundamental attribute of all conservatives] and are therefore 100% reactive to problems [backward thinking] rather than being pro-active [forward thinking] like we who are progressives.

    4. For those of us who use it, and the Foreiners and Tourist who rely and depend on it for the 3-4 days they are here -- Mass transit is GOOD.

    5. Drive your car, pay your gas and your parking,
    but just be sure to Thank those of us making it BETTER and Easier for you while your at it. [ingrate]

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 25, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    Re: "You do not speak for 3 million in this State."

    But liberal communitarian socialists daily undertake to do so. Got any statistics supporting your position as spokesman for us?

    Your TRAX statistic is certainly inflated by about half, and that doesn't even take into account that "ridership" is calculated using fares paid, double-counting commuters. Nor do we know how the number of non-paying riders was estimated. At best, though, you're talking not more than 30,000 Utahns using TRAX. Probably a LOT less.

    One thing we do know for sure -- TRAX doesn't, never will, pay for itself.

    Liberals force the paying on us -- 3 million [it's actually 2.8M, but OK, we'll round to 3M] Utahns, and 316 million Americans, almost none of whom will ever set foot on TRAX.

    Your unsupported, counterintuitive statement that visitors to Utah use buses and trains to get around, besides being wildly unlikely, demonstrates a rigid, communitarian political bias, as well.

    Don't you find it requires a little chutzpah to deem yourself open-minded?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    April 25, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    Tooele, UT
    Re: "Whose values are skewed now. . . ."

    Well, I'll let real people be the judge of that.

    My point is, has always been, that light rail is an expensive, dangerous, unneeded, unwanted attempt to impose state-owned, communal transport on people who don't want it and are unlikely to ever use it in numbers sufficient to pay for itself.


    Did you ever take ONE second to try putting yourself in someone else's shoes?

    You do not speak for 3 million in this State.
    You have ONE opinion, and can only speak for yourself.

    Nearly 100,000 people ride UTA everyDAY.
    3.8 Million people visit Utah annually, and guess what ... MOST use an airplane to get here [mass transit], and they rely on Buses and Trains to get around once get here.

    But living in Tooele,
    YOU don't need it, so it's not necessary.

    I doubt most people will appreciate an instant 27% increase on our already over burdened freeways.

    But this is all about YOU, isn't it?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 25, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    Re: "Whose values are skewed now. . . ."

    Well, I'll let real people be the judge of that.

    My point is, has always been, that light rail is an expensive, dangerous, unneeded, unwanted attempt to impose state-owned, communal transport on people who don't want it and are unlikely to ever use it in numbers sufficient to pay for itself. So, the rest of us -- including most of America, and the 95% of the state who will be geographically excluded from using it -- are press-ganged into subsidizing it.

    In the crowded areas of the state, where communal transport may be approaching necessity status, there are better, cheaper, more flexible ways to accomplish it, without flushing untold millions down that shining liberal toilet of communal light rail.

    And, when tax-subsidized, communal transport is implemented, the rich, elite, already overserved areas of the state, should be the very LAST to benefit from enforced public largesse.

    Let the East Bench buy its own shiny new toy train, if it wants one so badly.

  • IndependentlyIndependent South Jordan, UT
    April 25, 2013 8:42 a.m.

    Howard Beal:

    You can't be serious. Let's leave Karl Marx back in the 19th century and come back to reality. To call the East side the burgeoise and the West the proletariat is absurd.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    April 25, 2013 2:24 a.m.

    I work by the airport and meet lots of people who fly through Salt Lake City. They're excited about the new TRAX line that goes directly from the airport to downtown, since it gives them a chance to see Temple Square, the Energy Solutions Arena, along with he neighboring areas.

    If you feel the TRAX line from the airport to downtown was a bad idea, what would you tell these people?

    "Yes, we could have build a TRAX line to downtown, but hey, Sandy City is just as nice."

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    April 24, 2013 8:37 p.m.


    The east side of Salt Lake Valley (and Utah Valley as well) is generally wealthier. The rich like the good views of the valley. In essence bourgeoise like to look down on the proletariat...

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    April 24, 2013 8:12 p.m.

    Interestingly enough, most major cities in the US then to have west side biases not east side ones. Because the east side was populated first (migration from the east coast to the west coast) and the west side later (as the east side becomes older and falls into disarray) leading west sides across the nation to usually be wealthier and richer. We have that here in Omaha and it's true in many other cities that I've been in.

  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    April 24, 2013 1:40 p.m.

    The "Trax Logic" letter does bring out just one of many of assumptions and stereotypes that some East-siders have about the West side. Some West-siders likely have assumptions about the East side as well. In actuality there are all kinds of neighborhoods and people in both areas. UTA probably took in consideration the number of users of public transportation and the large population growth that has occurred on the west side when making their decision.

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    April 24, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    Procura seems to be confused. Many times in this space he argues that those at the top of the income scale pay more than their fair share of taxes and deserve all they get in this capitalist democracy including ever lower taxes. Now he seems to bristle under the granting of those very same favors he normally espouses. Whose values are skewed now...certainly not those on the east side.

    PS. Being from Tooele, how is it you have a dog in this fight anyway?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    April 24, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    It was my understanding that the TRAX rail line location was driven more from an inside developer's access to a lucrative land deal to the State which he personally owned and profited from than by public access.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 24, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    Re: "All parts of the valley should be well served by UTA . . . ."

    No. Utah should simply give up on UTA's failure to provide anything approaching efficient, effective communal transport. We could then use the money saved to actually increase transportation effectiveness, not just in "the valley" [as if there's only one], but throughout the state, as well.

    We pay taxes too. We just get nothing in return.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 24, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    I encourage those who still see things in East vs West to get over it and grow up.

    All parts of the valley should be well served by UTA (not just west, and not just east).

    Last time I checked there were 3 Traz lines servicing the west side of the valley (green line to West Valley, red line to Daybreak, and Airport line). While the only trax line on the east side of the valley is the University of Utah line. 3-to-1... Now that's hardly over-emphasising service to east side residents, is it?

  • Opinionated Sandy, UT
    April 24, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    UTA knows few east-siders ride the buses and trains. So the east-siders are not serviced well by public transportation. I'm barely an east-sider, but it would take me 7 hours to ride a bus from my house to the TRAX station 1.5 miles away.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 24, 2013 7:22 a.m.

    Re: "I challenge those that hold similar bias toward the west side of the valley to rethink things . . . ."

    Don't we all. But East-Bench elites tend to believe that if one strays too far west of State Street, he'll fall of the edge of the earth, since nothing really exists "way out there."

    And UTA, like most bloated, unaccountable state agencies, is controlled almost entirely by East-Bench elites.