Helping 'undocumented Americans'

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  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    April 13, 2013 10:06 p.m.

    "America being the land of the free, why aren't people free to be Americans?"

    People are free to be Americans. But they must go through the correct process. And they must stand in line awaiting a turn. There are millions, perhaps billions, wanting to come to the US. We can't take the whole world in. We don't have the jobs or the real estate to accommodate. We have millions of unemployed Americans. We don't need more foreigners taking their work.

    "Why should becoming an American be a crime?"

    It's not a crime to become an American. But it has to be done correctly.

    "But, what is so wrong with letting someone come to America because they want to work..."

    We let millions come here legally every year. What more do you want?

    "...or because they want to join family here..."

    If families want to be together they can join in their homeland.

    "Those are honorable things."

    The honorable things are to obey our country's immigration laws. We are a nation of laws and a nation of law keepers.

    "Let's let them in."

    And let's give them your job.

  • KVC Sahuarita, az
    April 13, 2013 3:21 p.m.

    So you are advocating that we allow anyone from anywhere in the world who wants to come to the US to be allowed in unabated. There are probably a Billion or more people who would like to take us up on that offer, where are you going to put them and what are they going to do?

    Why do individuals leave their home countries for a better life instead of working to make a better life where they are from? That is what most of our ancestors did. None of my ancestors who came to the US came illegally, and none were given welfare or other free services to help them once they got here. This was a much different country when they came, mostly a harsh, rugged environment.

    BTW, when I moved to Utah in 2001 my wife took a job working in Salt Lake city. At the time the State University policy was you had to be in the state not going to school for 1-year, or reach a certain number of credit hours before getting in-state tuition. As they were giving illegals in-state tuition, they increased the requirements on my legal wife.

  • DougS Oakley, UT
    April 13, 2013 7:14 a.m.

    "Undocumented Americans".. An oxymoron if there ever was one. All Americans born in the U.S. are issued a Social Security account number and therefore are documented. All Naturalized Americans are also documented. Other than these, all undocumented persons in this country are Aliens. Those not having green cards or visas are here illegally and are breaking federal law. The lightest penalty under that law in deportation and therefore, the most lenient. So what is the debate all about?

  • Immifriend Sandy, UT
    April 13, 2013 12:15 a.m.

    We could also call them, "Those who want to be Americans, but who lack our permission." America being the land of the free, why aren't people free to be Americans? Why should becoming an American be a crime? Let's keep it illegal to bring drugs into the U.S. Let's prosecute those involved in drugs and murder and mayhem, regardless whether they came from south of the border or were already here. But, what is so wrong with letting someone come to America because they want to work, or because they want to join family here, or want to live in a nation they have admired all their lives? Those are honorable things. Why make it illegal for them to do something honorable? Let's let them in. We might could take the advice of Paul McCartney on this one: "Someone's knocking at the door. Somebody's ringing the bell. Do me a favor, and let 'em in."

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    April 12, 2013 11:17 p.m.

    Diya proudly proclaims, "Therefore, we should support humane immigration reform and reaffirm our commitment to the undocumented Americans [sic] who live here."

    So, tell me Diya, on what basis do you believe that such reaffirmation should take place?

    Is it because of your sense of rules governing "humane immigration"?

    Is it because of your sense of rules governing humane treatment generally?

    Maybe, it's the rules on this topic that you were taught when you, "became part of an important diversity program at the University of Utah." I'm sure they based their opinion on some sort of hierarchy of rules. After all, it is on that basis that you are now insisting that we abandon the rule of law upon which we all, supposedly, structure our society.

    A very good friend of mine based his attempts to enter and stay in the country on the rule of law. He expended thousands of dollars and decades of effort just trying to play by the rules. All for naught. You appear to be saying that he was, at best, a chump. At worse your thesis would declare him to be an uncaring promoter of an oppressive and unfair adherence to law.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    April 12, 2013 11:21 a.m.


    Your being silly. Mexico signed away the land, and the US paid for it. A better argument would be Germany, England and France repossessing Mexico for failure to replay money lent to Mexico to fight their wars. Instead Mexico beat France and celebrate it with Cinco De Mayo.

    This really is an old article, with the executive order waivers. There seems to be a tend of arguing the past.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 12, 2013 11:10 a.m.


    We are both on the same page.

    Did you notice my last line? "Notice that I am not defending the Dems as they are also guilty."

    I also blame both sides. But many on this board scream only at the dems as if the GOP is not equally as guilty.

    I am also an independent voter ( I vote both R and D at times)

    My common theme on these boards is that R and D have gotten us into this situation. They are bought and paid for by lobbyists, Unions and Corporations.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 12, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    Why play the sympathy card, when Obama has already given them waivers?

    Federal contributions for a college education is $6000 a year. That goes onto the taxpayers back.

    At 18 they had the right to go home and come back legally. If they are 19 they are just as illegal as their parents.

    No one is undocumented, they have documents in their home country, and fake (stolen) ones here.

  • FT1/SS Virginia Beach, VA
    April 12, 2013 9:46 a.m.

    Fair and balance for JoeBlow. I suggest that all of you write your congressman and demand to know why they have done nothing about the immigration issue.

    First ask Warner (Va Senator), then ask Pelosi, then ask Reid, then ask Moran (Va). These guys did nothing on immigration. They championed obamacare. They championed the largest entitlement expansion in my lifetime that is and will weaken the economy.

    Did the illegal immigration problem just start at the 2010 midterms?
    Did the deficit problem begin for Obama at the 2010 midterms?

    Tell me what the DEM has done about the deficit. Tell me what the DEM has done about illegal immigration. We already know what the Dems have done to skyrocketing health care costs!

    Tell me what the DEM did with complete DEM control of the House, Senate and Presidency under Obama.

    If those on the left would demand that your party address these problems when they are in power, your rants would seem much more sincere.

    How can anyone think that the solution to all these problems is "just vote Dem".
    Is your memory that short?

    From an Independent Voter who blames both sides, and our no leader Obama.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 12, 2013 4:28 a.m.

    I suggest that all of you write your congressman and demand to know why they have done nothing about the immigration issue.

    First ask Orrin, then ask Boehner, then ask McConnell, then ask Cantor. These guys did nothing on immigration. They championed NCLB. They championed the largest entitlement expansion in my lifetime - Medicare part D.

    Did the illegal immigration problem just start 5 years ago?
    Did the deficit problem begin when Obama won the election?

    Tell me what the GOP has done about the deficit. Tell me what the GOP has done about illegal immigration. Tell me what the GOP has done about skyrocketing health care costs?

    Tell me what the GOP did with complete GOP control of the House, Senate and Presidency under Bush.

    If those on the right would demand that your party address these problems when they are in power, your rants would seem much more sincere.

    How can anyone think that the solution to all these problems is "just vote GOP".
    Is your memory that short?

    Notice that I am not defending the Dems as they are also guilty.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    April 11, 2013 8:00 p.m.

    "Many of them are what I call 'undocumented Americans.'"

    How about calling them what they are... 'people who've crossed our borders without permission and have no documents whatever that would permit them to stay.'

    "They are going to school and dreaming to live the lives they aspire to live."

    Why are they not going to school in their own homeland? They certainly must have schools there.

    "Although most undocumented immigrants come from Mexico and other Latin American countries..."

    That's the problem... most are from Latin American countries. So, when they come here they form coalitions permitting them to exercise substantial influence on our political processes... such as electing our presidents. The result? Our country starts being run by foreigners.

    "In the school year 2010-2011, there were 716 undocumented students taking advantage of this bill throughout the state."

    Taking slots in schools that rightly belong to Americans.

    "My undocumented American friends are capable, brilliant leaders. Their knowledge and skills would be invaluable to this community..."

    Shouldn't these talented leaders be helping their own country? Why is it that we think we should garner all the world's talent?

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 11, 2013 4:28 p.m.

    Re anti-liar

    Any Mexicans who cross the border are not stealing.

    They have claim on this land too.

    How would you like it if the laws were strictly enforced and all land taken by broken treaties, wars of aggression and walking on to land that wasn't theirs had to be give be given back?

    What would you have for an inheritance? ... If the UN for instance strictly enforced the law?

    Be careful what you ask for.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    April 11, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    We may be a nation of laws but those laws are based upon human dignity, freedom and responsibility. If you met one of these illegally brought children you wouldn't even know they were here illegally. They may even be your neighbors. You would be ashamed of being so harsh and cruel as to say go back to a country you have hardly lived in to a people you don't know. They are as much american as you or I and most of them are trying to do the right thing by assimilating.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    'Immigrants create more jobs than they take'?

    "John CC" The number of jobs we have are NOT infinite.

    Ask anyone at the unemployment office.

    Many of our LEGAL neighbors have been put out of work and are now on unemployment. A good part of those jobs were construction or service jobs where employers found they could pay illegal trespassers "under the table" and save a few bucks.

    Sadly, some of their neigbors couldn't care less about their plight. Its MUCH more politically correct to run interference for lawbreakers.

    Where's respect for your LEGAL neighbors?
    Where's respect for the laws of our nation (that we all agreed to abide by, BTW).

    Way back in 2nd grade I learned we were supposed to live by the laws of the land, even the ones we don't like.

    There's no reason whatsoever that a "new law" will be enforced any better than the "old" law.

    Lawbreaking employers will continue to ignore any law they don't particularly like UNTIL enforcement occurs.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    April 11, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    There is a lot of middle room between "ship them all back" and "open borders."

    There is nothing illegal about adjusting immigration quotas to a level supported by supply and demand.

    There is nothing immoral about having guest workers compete with citizens on a level playing field.

    Amnesty has an honored place in our legal system. Let's compromise somewhere between EVERYONE and NO ONE. Remember, some children had no choice.

    We are not superior. Fortunate, but not superior.

    There is something immoral about not helping poor neighbors--especially when many solutions can help both sides.

    I understand how those who come legally may resent those who don't. Conversely, shouldn't we also respect those who who let their families starve out of respect for our law?

    The Constitution included no immigration restrictions. It told Congress to set up naturalization for those already here. A pathway to citizenship.

    Are you proud your ancestors came here legally? Well, before 1875 they all did. Then Congress decided the the Chinese workers, whom we had invited, were unworthy. We were probably intimidated by how well they had built our railroad from California to Utah.

    Need work? Immigrants create more jobs than they take.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    April 11, 2013 12:23 p.m.

    To "Diya Shah" it is a nice emotional argument that you make. However, we are a nation of laws, and laws have consequences attached to them when you break the law.

    For example, if you knew a hardworking family that obtained welfare benefits illegally would you allow them to continue to receive the benefits?

    How about a really nice person who just happens to run a ponzi scheme. They are nice and contribute to the community with the money they get, should they be allowed to keep going?

    What is the difference. All are nice, and hardworking people that just happen to have broken a law or 2. They should get the same treatment as the illegal immigrants, because we shouldn't discriminate.

  • Curiosity Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    Thank you Sudha S for highlighting how we are talking about the children. Those children who have been brought here, but must remain in constant fear of being removed from a land where they grew up. These children should not be punished for events that were completely out of their control. They've worked just as hard (and in most cases much harder) as those here legally to make something of themselves. Furthermore, the dreams they dream are not any different; they want to support their families, get jobs, contribute to this nation. Sadly, not as much can be said for some of our own children here.

    No one is encouraging Green Cards be doled out along borders and in international airports, but simply that innocent contributors to our society be aided and given the resources that will inevitably benefit this country.

  • Sudha S salt lake city, UT
    April 11, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    These so called "illegal" immigrants that are residing in US are paying taxes on regular basis. They are contributing to the US economy. The only difference between these "illegal" people and us is the fact that we have mere PAPERS that says we can stay in this land.
    I am not saying legalize everyone without papers, I am saying give their children a chance. These children came here without their knowledge of their immigration status to the US and tried to pursue the American Dream. But now because they don't have the legal formalities, they have to throw away their hard work and efforts out the way?
    The reason most of families are migrating to US is for the higher education for their children and better opportunities because the countries they come from do not have all these resources. All we need to do is give the children a chance to grow up in our country, the land of freedom and opportunities. They will be contributing to the nation later in future. Let the children get the education they want. If they want to learn, let them, who are we to decide their future?

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    The statue of "Justice" (don't know if the lady has a name) is blindfolded for a reason. The evidence is to be weighed in the scales and thus the determination, regardless of the people before her. Our leaders of all stripes have aided and abetted this problem for generations. The people here without permission - visa or similar status are illegally here, they are breaking the law. Change the law, if it hurts your sensitivities. Sponsor a family, you be Uncle Sugar while they apply for citizenship.

    Oh, diversity is not a strength, people from diverse backgrounds uniting together for a common goal is strength. People from various backgrounds, cultures and languages who group together and exclude themselves from the general population and language and culture do not progress in the culture and do not aid or improve the host society.

    If I were to choose to live in Germany, I would crack the books on how to speak German and get along with my neighbors. I am of the opinion there is no way this problem will be resolved without a lot of stress and tears.

  • trekker Salt Lake, UT
    April 11, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    Calling them an "undocument immigrant" makes as much sense as calling a drug dealer an undocumented pharmacist. It is not racist to call anyone illegal this applies to anyone coming from any country through illegal channels.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    Cry me a river. If you're a criminal, you get no sympathy from me.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    When university students pay their tuition, they are paying approx. one-third of the costs of their education. Legal citizens of the state pays the remaining two-thirds through their already excessive taxes.

    Do Utah residents REALLY want to subsidize illegal alien students? Especially when they can't work here anyway?

    It doesn't seem to bother the (so-called)leaders of the state. Then again, its not their money they are spending, its ours.

    Why worry?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 11, 2013 7:49 a.m.

    Re: ". . . 'undocumented Americans' . . . ."

    Undocumented Americans? So . . . I must be an undocumented German? Or Salvadoran? Or Hungarian? Or Bosnian? Or Kuwaiti?

    I've lived in each of these places, so, by analogy to the reasoning of this article, I should demand the right to claim benefits and citizenship status in each, right?

    This debate is beyond silly.

    Not a single ONE of the countries these illegals come from would feel the slightest compulsion to extend benefits of citizenship to any American. And, as the article indicates, those countries are being denied the talents and accomplishements of their "best and brightest."

    It's a win-win to send these "undocumented Americans" back to their own countries, where they'll be documented, appreciated, and be free to use their immense talents to advance their own people into the 21st century.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2013 1:14 a.m.

    If parents are illegally trafficking their children into this country across international lines and if as a result their child is obtaining an advantage over someone else's child who is here legally, and if those parents are doing this with that end in mind, then those parents are guilty of willfully STEALING for their children. If those children then endeavor to keep the loot their parents stole for them, then they become guilty as well.

    And these children didn't just appear in this country out of nowhere. Illegal-alien parents brought them here. Most likely, those parents are continuing to roam this nation freely. The simple truth is that these parents should be deported, every last one of them, and their children should be deported with them.

    That is not inhumane, nor is it a death sentence. It is the only fair and right thing to do. It is not fair that someone's else's kid should suffer unjustly due to theft. The families may then take their winnings and make a contribution to their communities in their home countries, with honor.

    It is time we start being honest and acknowledge the situation for what it is.