Utah, Virginia mounting raid on Calif. jobs

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  • Rick2009 MESA, AZ
    April 11, 2013 4:22 p.m.

    I was wondering if Gov. Herbert is successful how it will change the political face here in Utah. If too many liberals start showing up they will try to change the conservative nature of Utah and its laws. If that were to happen kiss Utah good-bye as it is happening in Arizona slowly. People from Calif (I grew up there but got out) think too liberally and they will ruin Utah like they have ruined Calif. Of course the Utah Mormon dems will like the change but they don't follow the prophets anyways .....see Bentley's book "A Glorious Standard"

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    April 11, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    To "OHBU" and what is preventing California from trying to keep businesses there?

    Isn't it actually better for the California infrastructure to get businesses out of there? For example, during the summer they have brownouts. If you have fewer businesses, their power grid will be able to better handle the diminished capacity, and the need for investing in their infrastructure is decreased. So again I see a win-win situation.

    There is also a study out there that shows that the more economically free states have less unemployment than the states that highly regulate their economies.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 10, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    the I-15 rebuild was planned LOOOONNNGGGG before the porkulus was passed. cannot credit BO and the porkulus for that one.

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    April 10, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    I know you can't respond OHBU, but I hope that it didn't cost all 800 billion stimulius dollars to fix the I-15. The jobless rate didn't go down in any case.

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    April 10, 2013 2:15 p.m.


    You missed the point of my statement (and I'm afraid this will be my last allowed response). The company is paying less taxes to the state in which it resides. States are responsible for maintaining things that are of national interest, like infrastructure. When states fall short, they appeal to the Federal government (see: I15 reconstruction). Per The Economist "America's fiscal union" states that tend to have the more lenient tax laws are the ones that rely on receiving more federal tax dollars than they contribute. In other words, states like California have been supporting states like Utah. For example, Utah paid 187.6B and received 225.3B.

    And your math is incorrect. The federal government takes its taxes first, on gross earnings, so state taxes will not impact those. Unless the company merely lets the profits sit there, they will not be taxed higher on a federal level. Once it goes into executive compensation, it becomes yet one more expense, and the federal government does not receive any increase in revenue.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 10, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    To "OHBU" actually is isn't a net loss on the national level. The same number of jobs are being maintained, and the Federal taxes collected will remain the same. In some ways the federal government may end up collecting more because the company can be more profitable.

  • Gone fishin Murray, UT
    April 10, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    Great idea. Maybe by the time California comes to its senses it will be too late and we can give it back to Mexico.

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    April 10, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    re: Lost
    I know we are discussing state-level issues. My post is intended to ask us to step back and consider whether or not the infighting between states might be doing more harm to us as a nation than good. Good for Utah that their children are above national average, but they won't grow up and compete merely on a national scale. We live in a global economy, and to wantonly ignore that fact is incredibly counter-productive.

    By the way, it's interesting that m.g. scott wonders where the stimulus for infrastructure went while lost points out that I-15 was just rebuilt through Utah county. Here's some news, the state used stimulus dollars to complete that project.

    finally, cats, manufacturing went down because of labor costs. The average manufacturing wage in China is $426/mo, in America, $4,160/mo. In other words, it's not taxes.

    RedShirt: it's still a net-loss on the national level.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 10, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    To "OHBU" actually, your assesment is wrong. Giving the company tax breaks will be a positive for Utah, even if you gave them exemptions to state corporate income taxes.

    Imaging a company comes here with 20 employees, averaging $60,000/yr in salaries. Now, that means that $1.2 million dollars in salaries per year are coming into the state. At 5% state income taxes, and assuming their tax breaks give them a taxable income of $30,000 the state will get $30,000 in income taxes, plus an additional $37,000 from sales taxes, and probably another $30,000 from property taxes.

    So, giving a company a tax break which gets them here nets $97,000 for the state directly for the state from 20 employees. Indirectly the state gets even more money from the businesses that the new residents shop at. This also does not include taxes collected on office or manufacturing supplies, property taxes from their offices, or the savings in unemployment because some locals will be hired.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 10, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    Dear Lost in DC: You are a smart person and obvously have a lot of experience. You do great posts.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 10, 2013 11:25 a.m.

    this IS a state-level discussion.

    lack of infrastructure - they just rebuilt I-15 through almost all of Utah county and building the Mountain View corridor. Infrastructure is doing fine

    Education - according to the National Center for Education Statistics, Utah 8th graders are above the naitonal average in math, reading, and science, though they do lag in writing. CA 8th graders are BELOW national averages in all four measures.

    So much for all the "good" CA is doing with their oppressive taxes and regulation.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 10, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    The decline in manufacturing is due to protectionist policies, unions and bad management in general. Free markets, low taxes, fewer regulations, etc., lead to healthy economies and job creation. Unfortuntely, union propoganda has misguided people for a lot of years.

    Freedom and free markets are the key to productivity and prosperity. It has been proved over and over again, but special interests always manage to convince lawmakers otherwise. I'm so glad that Utah lawmakers have a little more common sense. That's why we are doing better than most of the nation.

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    April 10, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    Re: OHBU

    Interesting that you state things like bridges and declining education, ect. Haven't Obama and the Democrats in Congress claimed to want to fix those things? Didn't Obama borrow some trillion dollars to do so in his first term? Notice the difference? Neither do I. Why didn't the early spending of Obama lead to jobs? Where did all that money go? Inquiring minds want to know. In the meantime, why is he still President? No Republican could have withstood this bad record and gotten reelected.

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    April 10, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    re: Hemlock and lost

    Think higher than the state level--where have any jobs been created? There haven't been. Meanwhile, our infrastructure, once the envy of the world, is in total decline. Tens of thousands of bridges are unstable, our water supply is threatened, and our education standing has steadily declined on the world stage. I'm not demonizing CEOs for creating jobs. Research some of the companies that have moved from California to places like Oklahoma. No jobs are created, the price of their product is not impacted. The lower taxes goes directly into executive compensation. Again, congrats to Utah on the low unemployment rate...for now. But if it's done at the expense of education and clean air, good roads, it's not much of a place to live.

    Hemlock, what does Ohio have to do with this? The decline of the Rust Belt has nothing to do with taxes, but the decline in manufacturing.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 10, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    yep, I'd rather have 5.2% unemployment than 9+%. That's a race to the bottom I'd rather win.

    I'd rather have a balanced state budget than the fiscal mess CA has. It's too bad such a beautiful state with such wealth in natural and human resourcess has been so badly mismanaged.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    Great idea governors. Dysfunctional California has ignored reality in their governmental and tax policies. California has yet to learn that eventually you run out of other peoples' money. The rust belt, Ohio is an example of a state on the decline, decays while other areas prosper. Demonizing CEOs for success in creating jobs is shooting the messenger and ignoring the message. As JFK noted, all boats float in a rising tide.

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    April 10, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    Another round of race to the bottom. Sacrifice infrastructure and education to lure in companies with jobs. It's great in the short term, but is not a good strategy for long-term economic stability. As a nation, such antics are the opposite of helpful. No new jobs are created--they're only relocated. Meanwhile, throughout the country essential services are cut or stripped to bare-bones to support a CEO's ability to make a little extra coin.