@Ultra BobNo it doesn't.The purpose of government
is to secure those liberties and freedoms, not take them away for a secure bowl
@the truth, Holladay, UtExactly. The decision to live in a
civilized society requires the giving up of some freedoms and liberty in
exchange for other more desirable freedoms and liberty. Like when we take away
your freedom to burn your garbage so that everyone may breath clean air. Like
taking away your freedom to drive as you please so that everyone may have the
freedom to drive without injury.
Ultra Bob is living proof it is all about control.It doesn't
matter if it is the government or your neighbor.Loss of control to
others is loss of freedom and liberty.But the fact of matter is
government has become distant from the people.When the epa or dcs
or dhs or whatever government organization comes to your door it is not about
"the people".When politicians are in office for decades
there is NO answering to the people anymore.With the extreme left,
with "progressives" of any party, it is all about control.
Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalenaProvo, UTI agree, but
what's that got to do with the government that we have now?
I completely understand that oftentimes govt agencies overstep their bounds.
That is what makes the news. It is the "crazy" things that get all the
attention.However, do you really want to get rid of the FDA? Do you
think we need some oversight?EPA? What a bunch of loonies, right?
China does not have an EPA. Would you want to drink their water and breathe
their air? What would business dump into our rivers if we let them regulate
themselves?How about we work to fix those agencies? People love to
take the All or Nothing approach (on both political sides). And we
see plenty of that on this board alone.C'mon you folks in the
"reasonable middle". Lets stop letting those on the far right and the
far left get their way. If we let them, they will ruin this country.
Mountanman Hayden, IDSo, if I understand you right, the Obama
administration is not "the government", but it is the various
departments run by unelected administrators and their staff? If that is the
case, why do you even bother to complain about Congress and the Office of the
President? Instead, you complain about the IRS, EPA, NSF, NASA, USDA, FBI, CIA,
DOE, DOJ, DOT, Navy, Army, Air Force, Marines, and every other aspect of
government that keeps the United States functioning through the decades.You can refuse to pay your taxes, but there are consequences because you
have a convenent with this country to contribute to its operations according to
the decisions of Congress. However, you can always disagree with governmental
policy and inform your representative of your opinions. You do this every day
with your comments on this website. And we have the ability to change and/or
influence our government by elections every 2-4 years. It's our legacy and
has been such for over 200 years.You certainly have greater say than
you have with the religious beliefs set by your religious affiliation. There,
if you disagree or question, you're OUT!
@ Salsa Libre. The REAL government is the IRS, the EPA, the Department of
Education and hundreds of other "departments" and unelected bureaucrats
in Washington DC. Don't believe it? Like I said, just don't pay your
taxes or try to influence or disagree with any policy of the above and you will
find out who controls your liberty, your property and your life.
Re: Mountanman Hayden, IDObviously you've never experienced a
Homeowner's Association, gone to school, experienced an established
religious organization, or been in the path of a corporation/business that
wanted special consideration in having access to your land and/or property or
wanted to invade your space with activities you may have found undesirable." . . . activist, liberal justices" is perhaps the most
self-serving, lame excuse disaffected, anti-government types use when the U.S.
Supreme Court swing vote (Justice Anthony Kennedy) doesn't vote with the
other four conservative justices. Ask yourself, "Why do we have a Supreme
Court?" For those with an extremely-limited understanding of the
Constitution and a expectation that everything they want should be the reality,
know that there are many who may disagree:"Your freedom stops
where my freedom extends, and my zone of freedoms is quite extensive!"
Re: Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UTAgain, who is government? It
is not some anonymous entity waiting to do you injustice. Unless you live in a
cave on an uninhabited island (except for you) isolated from civilization,
government is usually an elected group of representatives chosen to make laws
and enforce laws in the interests of the general public.So,
government is you, your neighbors and friends, or people you know whom you may
or may not have voted to elect to serve as your representative. However, if you
think government is too influenced by money and special interests, then you have
an issue with the process of determining the government you have, not an issue
with the philosophical basis of representative government.If you
don't like who your neighbor voted for or whom was elected as your
representative, then you only have a problem of how your views appeal to the
voting public. Although you probably don't consider your views to be
"wrong", certainly you don't like who others select, and that is
the issue. Not government, per se, but representation that doesn't reflect
your particular interests.That's Democracy!!
I am not the government and neither are you. Elections are frequently overturned
by activist liberal judges that are appointed by other agenda driven
bureaucrats. I do not fear Exxon or any other "evil" corporation because
if I don't like them, I am FREE not to buy their products therefore they do
not control me in any facet of my life. Sorry about your life! On the other
hand, don't pay your taxes and you will learn who controls you, your
property and your liberties.
"First, "whoever owns the tree has control of the destiny of the tree,
and if they want to kill it they can do so," Merullo observes. (That's
true absent any local laws or regulations requiring that owners get permission
to remove trees.)"That's from an article in the Seattle
Times talking about tree laws in Washington. (I found that just on a quick
search, I'm sure that if anyone else wants to know what they are talking
about when it comes to laws governing trees in Washington they can do a search
themselves.) It seems that the letter writers daughter is reacting to a local
law, perhaps a city ordinance or a home owners association's regulation.
I would say that this hardly warrants the hysteria of Anti and
Mountanman. USSR and N Korea indeed.
When will the fool that is fearful of "government" realize that he is
government? It is he with his neighbor that decides what is good for the
community. In a democracy it's up to you to get the Hatches of the world
to do your bidding and not Exxon's. I detect that several of you have
already given way to handing your life over to those that pad the pockets. What
a sorry state you put us in.
On the other hand,People in Arkansas bought homes, not knowing an
Exxon oil pipeline ran through their neighborhood---until the pipeline burst.
Twenty homes have had to be evacuated as the oil gushes from the ground. Our former home on the east coast, sitting on one acre of land, had an
area that we weren't permitted to alter because it was designated wetlands.
We also paid a yearly maintenance fee for upkeep of "common areas,"
and there were also restrictions on various things people were permitted to do
to their property-- such as what types of fences were permitted (no chain-link).
Homeowners could petition the home association board for execptions to the
rules. The home association board consisted of people living in the development
and had to run for re-election.
The proper role of government is to control the activities of it’s
citizens. Control is the only way to protecting it’s citizens from the
bad guys who are for the most part the citizens themselves. While
we might think we control our government, we are still a long way from
democracy. And we seem to be getting further away from being a republic where
citizens have any say. Government has the ability to control who
gets rich. Because the people are not in control of their government, most, if
not all, of the controls are made to the profit of those select individuals who
do control the government.
When America was in Socialist's land. Let my people go.
They really think socialism is going to work this time. People like this will be
very sorry when they find out what a big mistake they are making by destroying
the very foundations of the country and figurativley giving it back to the
mountainmanThis is what comparison I use myself making when I think
of these pro-big government communist worshippers.It's like
they think that if they jump off a cliff that they will fly. It has never worked
nor will ever work but yet in their deluded minds they think it will work this
The government just needs to sit down and shut up. Build the roads, deliver the
mail keep the boarders secure. Anything more is usurpitation. If
people can't chop down their own trees or consume what food they want? what
are they free to do?
@ airnaut. Where is the line between "G'ment" tyranny and
individual freedom? Who has the right to tell you what is good or bad for you
then force you to comply? We might as well be living in the former USSR or N.
Korea where if you step out of line, someone from the government comes and takes
you away to a "re-education" camp! How did those people give up their
personal freedoms one at a time until they were ruled by tyrants? My point; you
are walking on very dangerous ground when you give the government ever more
power! It happens every time and with the approval and applause of fools!
I lived in Washington State for 22 years, never heard of such a law.I know many neighborhoods with "Home Owner Associations" with all
sorts of rules like you suggest. Npthing about Government regulation however.You do have to purchase a tree permit in some areas. But it's no
different than buying a Christmas Tree permit for $5 during the holidays.Meanwhile...That mean old nasty G'mint!How dare
they tell us we can't burn our trash, or dump our used motor oil in
the gutter or outback,have as many dogs and cats as I want, or
build our homuses to code!
Welcome to the new "fundamentally transformed" America!
Exactly.Which is why I laugh when utahns rant against the federal
government. They lash out at the Feds but turn a blind eye to the local
government. Zion curtain anyone?
My brother lives in a housing development where the developer controls what kind
of vehicles he can park overnight in the street (no trailers), how he can
landscape his front yard (no changes, period!), and the colors he can paint his
building (can't deviate from the established color scheme of his
neighbors). He's forced to pay for a yard maintenance company that comes
to mow and blow every week -- no choice there.He also has a monopoly
utility that demands that he can only buy power from that utility, and due to
the developer's requirements, he can't install a solar panel to try to
"free" himself from the local utility. My kids went to the
moview recently and brought some healthy wraps to eat during the movie, but were
told they couldn't bring food into the theater and if they wanted to eat,
they had to eat the unhealthy fare offered at the in-house concession stand.
To me, I think big business has "too much control" over our
You might look further and consider the background for the ordinance and why the
city in question considered it important to review requests to cut down trees.
Oftentimes people don't understand the reasons such a regulation is
considered, when it is appropriate, and when there may be some other agenda at
work. Certainly in an up-scale neighborhood where residents value
the trees that lend charm to the neighborhood and enhance real estate values,
the cutting down of trees can have significant economic affect. Similarly,
there may be restrictions on cutting specific trees as an enviromental
consideration (eg. old growth oaks) because other varieties may introduce
insect/disease problems and/or be unsightly as they mature. Also, it may be
just a HMO issue and not within the jurisdiction of the city.The
letter does not provide adequate information to effectively determine the
background of the issue. Certainly, anectdotal evidence is insufficient,
particularly when personal self-interest motivates opposition. And if the
regulation is shown to be arbitrary and capricious, then, and only then, is it
reasonable to oppose the ordinance and initiate effective debate the regulation.
It is simply an issue of proper land use and stewardship.