HB76 veto is misguided

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  • GiuseppeG Murray, Utah
    April 8, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    Re: Irony Guy & LDS Liberal

    It's easy enough to do an internet search on the term "well-regulated" to see that the meaning of the phrase in the time period meant "in proper working order."

    So here you go: In order for the militia to be in proper working order, you know in case it needs to be called on for the security of the State, the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    Bonus definition: "infringed" - encroach on somebody's rights or property: to take over land, rights, privileges, or activities that belong to somebody else, especially in a minor or gradual way.

    Please note the inclusion of "especially in a minor or gradual way" in the definition of infringed.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 7, 2013 9:32 p.m.

    Re LDS liberal

    I don't know such people.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 7, 2013 10:07 a.m.

    Anti-Obama --- please feel free to exercise your right to that if you wish. Just don't harm anyone else in the process.

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    April 5, 2013 9:29 p.m.

    Mr. Todd,

    Where did you read that God said you or I have a right to carry a concealed weapon? Can I get a copy of that revelation? What other "rights" has God bestowed that only a select few have been chosen to know?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 5, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    Bountiful, UT
    Unfortunately we have to share this earth with people whose I.Q. tells them "shall not be infringed" somehow means weapons of any sort be allowed to children, criminals and the violently insane.

    It's called Common Sense, and the Founding Father's expected us to use some.

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    April 5, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is hard to understand? What does "bear" mean? I, for one, am much more comfortable when my fellow-citizens carry their arms "concealed" than when they carry unconcealed. Naming the bill "constitutional carry" makes great sense to me. Utah demonstrated our dedication to the constitution and to the Bill of Rights by the passage of this bill. Then our governor, who had expressed his commitment to the defense of the Constitution as an oath, violated his oath by vetoing the bill. Sad!

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 5, 2013 6:52 a.m.

    Unfortunately we have to share this earth with people whose I.Q. tells them that gun free zones and changing the cosmetics of 'assault' guns are effective community defenses against gun violence.

  • Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena Provo, UT
    April 5, 2013 1:35 a.m.

    Where in the Constitution say people have a right to carry a concealed weapon? I've read the 2nd Amendment several times and don't see those words in the text. Nor do I see any reference to being able to carry a concealed weapon with little to no experience in properly handling.

    Perhaps the letter writer believes that a person should be able to carry a concealed weapon onto an airplane, into a courtroom, a school or hospital. Maybe the letter writer believes that a spectator should be able to carry a concealed weapon into a a sporting event, have a few beers, and know that he is protected if he gets into an altercation with another spectator who may have had one to many.

    It appears that someone certainly used their "right" to carry a concealed weapon up to the front door of a state official in Colorado while another individual carried a concealed weapon into the house of a county district attorney in Texas. Or were these folk just protecting themselves from a tyrannical government through 2nd Amendment remedies?

    What with concealed guns and stand-your-ground laws, there are innumerable opportunities to exert one's "rights".

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    April 5, 2013 1:08 a.m.

    Don't you love it when the "more guns in more hands" crowd is against anything designed to devalue responsible gun ownership and make possessing a gun available to just about anyone who want to have one? The NRA leadership, in a obvious example of convoluted thinking, wants to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally-ill while working to make access to guns easier for the mentally ill by eviserating background checks legislation.

    The NRA leadership is even opposed to anti-trafficing legislation because it might "infringed" on the rights of people buying guns from selling them to the "bad guys". It is important to remember when they pay lip service to gun-owner responsibility while advocating gun-owner irresponsibility with its primary purpose of being the primary advocate for the gun industry. More guns means more profits and safe, responsible gun laws would limit profits since so-called "bad guys" would be unable to purchase a gun.

    One might consider their primary argument that having a gun is necessary to defend against a tyrannical government. However, a "tyrannical government" to them is just a government they don't like.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    April 4, 2013 7:36 p.m.

    The number one and perhaps only reason the right to keep and bear arms was to protect the citizens from its government. It has nothing to do with home invasion robbery, hunting deer or walking around like you're Jesse James.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 4, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    "The Authoritarian left is so extereme and out of control it makes me want to jump off a bridge. "

    And all this time, I thought Gov Herbert was a Republican, LDS who went to BYU.

  • Crusindownthehighway Sunset, UT
    April 4, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    Mr.Todd I think that you are taking literary license with those documents you appeal to in order to prove your point. I do not see anywhere that God gives us the right to carry a concealed weapon. The second amendment certainly does not contain the word "concealed" in it. I support Gov. Herbert in his thoughtful veto of this bill.

    Irony Guy & LDS Liberal, how can I or any other citizen ever be a part of a "well regulated militia" unless I have the right to keep and bear arms?

  • MelissaJohnson Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 1:26 p.m.

    Mr. Todd, I see one really, really big problem with your argument. You said, and I quote, "our forefathers were endowed by their creator with the right to carry a concealed weapon." In the days of our forefathers, they had muskets, which unless you had pretty stinkin' big pockets, were impossible to conceal. The reason for the Second Amendment was not to have a concealed weapon (I have no idea where you got that notion from), but to protect the families. You also said the Amendment was there so we could, "keep and bear Arms," but you missed that oh so important opening phrase, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state," This was the real reason for the Second Amendment. Protection for the families and the state.

  • William Gronberg Payson, UT
    April 4, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    From a post above:

    "...and JFK. These guys were actual liberals and not Authoritarians like Obama is."

    President Kennedy ( JFK ) ordered the blockade of Cuba and had our Navy confront the Soviet Red Navy. Sounds like some "authority" was excersised there to me.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    April 4, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    The Authoritarian left is so extereme and out of control it makes me want to jump off a bridge.

    These poeple today are a total disgrace to people Like John Lennon and JFK. These guys were actual liberals and not Authoritarians like Obama is.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    April 4, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    Well done, Governor Herbert! Kudos! As for this letter's, uh, interesting theology, the less said the better.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 4, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    I don't follow these fanatical conservative interpretations of the Consitutiton.

    If God created crazy people,
    And all crazy people should have access to guns,
    Then God is to be blamed?

    Look - The Framers of the Constitution didn't spell out every little scenerio in a nation of 350 Million people.

    They wrote things under the assumption that WE would use some Common Sense.
    i.e., children, Crazy people, criminals, and insanely violent should not have access to guns.
    That's called COMMON Sense.

    Use it.

    BTW -- I'm still waiting for a pro-gun person to explain the rest of the 2nd amendment - you know, the part about must be a "well REGULATED militia".

    Because, If I EVER see anyone, with any gun, in a public place, without a proper Uniform -- I will be calling 9-11 immediately, and I'll let the responding Police Offiers decide if that person's gun is Constitutional or not!

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    "God said so!" Well at least it gets us away from parsing the Constitution for the 82nd time. Thanks for the breather (and the laugh).

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 4, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    Kent there is a portion in Luke where Christ says that he that does not have a sword let him sell his cloak and buy one. However, in that same chapter he discourages the use of it by saying "he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword." I think with that combination of verses Christ is telling his apostles to protect themselves when necessary but to not strike preemptively. In other words a man of God must use his strength for, "Knowledge and defense. Never attack."

    This letter though was completely off base on this topic. Not everyone should own a gun. Not everyone must own a gun. I do it's a .380 that carries 6 rounds in the magazine. That works just fine for me. I also will be getting my ccw permit here in the next few months. I think the training should be amplified a little bit to include accuracy, proper handling, and a better understanding of the use guns in various settings.

  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    April 4, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    Adam bomes dont kill, people kill.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    April 4, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    No conservative has ever even tried to answer my question about the meaning of "well regulated," and yet the 2nd is the only amendment qualified by these words.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 4, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    Okay, so exactly what kind of weapon does God carry? Lightning bolts? Earthquakes?

    I know that comment makes no sense.

    But then, too, neither does Mr. Todd's letter.

    If Mr. Todd were a truly responsible gun owner and American citizen, he'd be pushing for common sense regulations to enhance safety for all of us. A ban on guns isn't the answer, but complete "freedom" is not, either.

    The answer lies in thoughtful, careful solutions to a terrible problem. The NRA and others like them offer only more terror.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    April 4, 2013 7:55 a.m.

    Just wondering where, exactly, our Creator said anything about the right to carry a weapon. I recall Jesus saying something about turning the other cheek and loving our enemies. I don't recall anywhere in scripture reading a word about guns. This letter is filled with fantasy.