Scout survey misleading

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  • dustman Nampa, ID
    April 1, 2013 4:29 p.m.

    @Chuck E Racer: There is a difference between homosexuals and predators. predators seek out victims. they don't care what sex that victim is. homosexuals are same sex attracted. just like heterosexuals don't jump on anything that is of the opposite sex, neither do homosexuals jump on anything that is the same sex. There are plenty of scout safety measures. As an LDS scout leader, parents should demand that those safety measures are followed. Two-deep leadership is just one of the solutions.

    @Chris B: Quit making stuff up.

  • amazondoc USA, TN
    April 1, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    @Chris B --

    "100% of men who have abused boys are either homosexuals or bisexuals."

    No, not actually a fact. "Pedophilia" is recognized as a disorder not related to "normal" adult sexual orientations.

    From a psychology researcher at UC Davis, Dr. Gregory Herek:

    "The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes. "

    "For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women. "

    And remember, the perpetrator of the latest BSA abuse case was a straight married man.

    Homosexuality is not the same thing as pedophilia.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 1, 2013 11:49 a.m.


    100% of men who have abused boys are either homosexuals or bisexuals.

    This is all about Scout Safety.

    I support the ban of boys camping with girl scouts.

    Similarly, I support the ban of homosexuals on campouts with Boys.

  • Jim Cobabe Provo, UT
    March 31, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    Yes, of course! If survey results don't get the answer you wanted to hear, just reject the survey results. Maybe appeal to the courts and have the decision overturned by activist judges. Sure sounds reasonable to me!

  • thunderbolt7 DUTCH JOHN, UT
    March 31, 2013 7:53 a.m.

    I support the ban on LGBT leaders and Scouts and oppose BSA gay policy change. Why? Because same-sex attraction is risky for Boy Scouts (and Girl Scouts). I do not want my boys of scout age going on overnight camping trips with a Scout leader who has sexual attraction to boys.

  • Spoc Ogden, UT
    March 31, 2013 1:01 a.m.

    Not all hazards can be eliminated, but we do our best to minimize probability and opportunity for mischief from whatever the hazards might be. That is why following the Guide to Safe Scouting and the Youth Protection Plan are so important. Likewise, the pamphlet inside the Scout Handbook cover entitled Parents Guide begs for parental involvement in the safety issue.

    We don't always succeed, but with regard to Pagens reference to files, we need to do better at it. The more we involve parents, select leaders of good character, and abide by the rules, the better off the boys will be.

    Additionally, the importance of the Adult Leader as a role model cannot be overemphasized. Every aspect of your life, public or private, will be scrutinized by these boys and your attitudes, emotions, and actions will have a far greater impact on them than your words. That is why strong moral and ethical leaders are so important.

    JSF, You are correct. A larger sample size may shrink the confidence interval, but probably will not push the result outside of the original interval.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 30, 2013 8:01 p.m.

    Really, only a quarter of all eligible voters voted for Obama. I guess we can say there is no reliable voters mandate. In statistical sampling because you didn't sample one hundred percent does not mean your sample is incorrect.

  • Chuck E. Racer Lehi, UT
    March 30, 2013 4:23 p.m.

    The real bullying is happening by the homosexual group who seeks to bully a private entity into accepting their immorality. The threats and attempts at public humiliation by the homosexual community are a classic example of bullying! If these people don't like the stance of the Boy Scouts, let them form, and pay for, their own organization the way they want it. It's a free country. They are welcome to form their own organization. We don't want these people preying on our young boys.

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    March 30, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    I need to review statistics, but I don't think a survey with an 11 percent response can be held to be very reliable. Especially when it was sent specifically to scout leaders.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 30, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    'Boy Scout Files Give Glimpse Into 20 Years of Abuse' - By KIRK JOHNSON - NY Times - 10/18/12

    'Officials with the Boy Scouts fought in the courts for years to prevent the release of the documents — more than 15,000 pages detailing accusations of abuse against 1,247 scout leaders between 1965 and 1985, with thousands of victims involved...'

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 30, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    'Poll: Support for gay marriage up among Catholics' – By Jillian Rayfield – Salon – 03/08/13

    'A Majority of Young Republicans Support Gay Marriage' - —By Tim Murphy – Mother Jones – 03/08/2013

    'Poll: New High Of 58 Percent Support Same-Sex Marriage' – By TOM KLUDT – By Talking Points Memo – 03/18/13

    'Poll: Majority in US back same-sex marriage' - Live Science – 05/20/2011

    And from our own Deseret news:

    'Gallup Poll: Majority of Americans support gay marriage' - By Elizabeth Stuart - DSNews - 05/20/2011

    Later this poll was attempted to be 'discredited' another poll. That when questioned, could not support their findings.

    ’Not okay: ‘Deseret News’ uses anti-gay advocate as credible poster’ – By Jeremy Hooper – Good as you – 10/13/2011

    Have an opinion. That is fine.

    But do not fabricate reasons to claim someone else, is lying.

  • 4word thinker Murray, UT
    March 30, 2013 7:41 a.m.

    Many scout leaders expressed frustration at the situations being asked on the survey because they were leading in the pro-homosexual direction and they felt unable to fully express their views. (Like the classic 'did you stop beating your wife, yes or no?' question, where they leave you no good answer.)

    It makes me think that an even higher percentage truly oppose changing the BSA policy regarding sexual orientation. They got frustrated and didn't complete the survey so they didn't get counted.