Drinking stats likely a result of Utah's culture, not Utah laws

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  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    March 19, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    My comment should have read: "Drinking has higher social and health costs than TOBACCO"

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    March 19, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon
    Many of the same parents who are concerned about underage drinking are the exact same parents who do not approve of violent video games (or r and x rated movies)

    (Once again) your basic allegation is inaccurate (and not open minded)

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    March 19, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    I am not LDS
    Yet a culture that discourages alcohol has contributed to my tendency to drink very little. That is not a bad thing

    I find it ironic that many of the same people being pompous about criticizing Utah liquor laws are the same ones who have no-problem with anti-smoking laws (or a variety of far more bizarre, and less substantiated, public health laws in “sophisticated” states)

    Drinking has higher social and health costs than alcohol; Yet America bans tobacco ads specifically to take it out of the public consciousness – to make it less of a social event; because social mores, more than law, discourage smoking

    The weeping and wailing over the condescendingly named "Zion curtain" is silly - you can still get your drink - but it logically and healthfully moves it out of the center of the dining culture

    I think those who claim they are victims because their restaurant does not look like a bar are being a bit irrational - and those LDS who claim to be tolerant because they are hypocritical in their divergent approaches to alcohol and tobacco (merely so that they can feign worldly sophistication) are tedious

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 18, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Does anyone find it ironic that we place a "Zion Curtain" to shield children from seeing someone "dinking",


    willing give them and sell them violent video games - showing extremely graphic blood and violence?

    It's not really about protecting what children see and affecting their behaviors - or it would be consistant across the entire spectrum.

  • Cameron Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 18, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    Culture is not just a one way street. Yes, we create our culture, and that clearly affects drinking rates in Utah. But our culture influences us as well. Companies pay hundreds of millions of dollars to show you images they know will influence your behavior. Look at the ads on the side of this page - that's somebody's often successful effort to manipulate you through what you see.

    It's hubris to say what you surround yourself with doesn't affect you. Of course it does.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 18, 2013 10:32 a.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    Sure, they can cater to the minority instead of focusing on the majority, but that's a sure-fire way of losing a business.

    12:21 p.m. March 17, 2013


    FYI - Mike, we "Mormons" now ARE the minority.
    BTW - and as a white, male -- in 20 years will fall be in that minority group as well.

  • CWJ Layton, UT
    March 17, 2013 10:01 p.m.

    As a LDS member with non-member in laws, my children have been at numerous family gatherings where ample alcohol was in open view and thus consumed in front of them. You know what? My children are adults now and have never drank alcohol to the best of my knowledge. My wife and I raised our children to abstain from alcohol and they've done a good job in avoiding it, but we never ever tried to hide it's presence when at a family function.

    If parents are doing a good job of teaching their children to abstain from alcohol, or tobacco, etc., then there really is no basis for our legislature to pass ridiculous laws that aren't anything more than them trying to protect us from ourselves. I think the Zion curtains in restaurants are not necessary; how many LDS parents that are raising children outside of Utah have an issue with their children being influenced by the sight of a beverage being mixed at a restaurant that opens displays the bar?

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 17, 2013 7:30 p.m.

    @Mike Richards

    Maybe I'm in the minority among Church Members, but whether an establishment serves alcohol has little bearing on whether or not I choose to dine there. I choose not to partake of alcohol, and as thus do not purchase it.

    Places like Applebees, Chilis, Buffalo Wild Wings all serve alcohol, and it tends to be a net gain for them, not a net loss (otherwise the free market would dictate that it wouldn't not be sold).

    I am sure there are some families that will choose not to eat at these places, but generally that is not the case.

    The point of the editorial is that legislation isn't what drives people away from alcohol, but rather a culture that largely decides not to participate. All the laws are doing is inhibiting business, not changing culture nor attitude.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    March 17, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    Is there anyone who owns a restaurant in Utah who is not aware that many people living in Utah are "Mormon"? Is there any business owner who would actively go out of his way to drive away customers?

    Maybe the business owner needs to think about how to bring people into his business instead of creating barriers to keep them out. Sure, they can cater to the minority instead of focusing on the majority, but that's a sure-fire way of losing a business.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    March 17, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    Great letter. Thank you for thinking deeper on this issue than most. Very good.