Cougars1:Yeah....that's what I thought.Case closed.
You lose. That game was won in the 3rd Qtr.
Cougars1:I can't hear you!I say again...How many
points did Utah need to score in the 4th-Qtr to win that game?
Cougars1:Okay then, how many points did Utah need to score in the
4th-Qtr to win that game?
Naval,Support what. I agree with points 1,2,3,and 4. I do not agree that
the game was over in the 3rd quarter. that is where you fail by your own
admission that the game is not over until the clock hits zeros. Utah
has outplayed BYU for the last 3 years. Agree. BYU ended up having a better
season than Utah last year. They went to and won a bowl game. Utah did not. Utah
still outplayed BYU when they played each other. I have never said otherwise.
Your spin is still old, tired, wrong and most of all, very boring.
Cougars1:Not only did you fail to support your position in your last
post, you couldn't.
Naval,Not only are you wrong; your spin is old, tired, and boring.
Cougars1:ALL games aren't "officially decided" until
0:00 on the game clock, but the truth is, Utah scored all the points they needed
to win it in the 3rd. Ergo, the game was technically won then. The 4th Qtr was
just a formality.Utah > Indy-WACGet used to it.Jealous of the U:I already told you...(1) Lower
SOS = more wins(2) More wins = higher ranking(3) The Y had
consistently played weaker schedules since leaving the MWC than had the U(4) The U had consistently outplayed our Indy-WACey little brother in our
head-to-head matchups to determine who was the better team.Everything else is just frantic and emotional spin.
navelvetCompletely ignoring the rankings, except when it's
convenient, doesn't change the fact that:2012#26 BYU(8-5)
bowl winners > #61 PACyWACers(5-7) bowl no shows2011#25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 PACyWACers(8-5)You'll forever live with the ignominy of knowing that your winless season
against the WAC in their last season of football existence denied U a trip to a
bowl.Get used to it!
Naval""Fans rushing the field" is not what decides a game. The
scoreboard at 0:00 does."And that says it even better than I
could. The game was not decided until the clock hit zeros.I am
beginning to think you lose any and all rationale when talking about BYU
football, or you just don't know the first thing about the game.
navelvet"if you want to point to Stephenson's missed FG
late in the 4th,"Sorry PACy-WACer, it wasn't late in the
4th, it was the last play of the game, and the outcome of the game was still in
doubt.The truth is, Riley's bobbled snap, Utah scoop and score,
GAVE Utah the game.U didn't do anything on your own to deserve
Cougars1:And lastly, if you want to point to Stephenson's
missed FG late in the 4th, I could just as easily point to a 37-FG Utah missed
in the 1st, and call that "anomoly" offsetting.Utah >
Indy-WACGet used it.
Cougars1:"The game was not decided until the field goal was
missed by BYU. As evidenced by the Ute fans rushing the field twice in the last
few seconds of the game."Not so my frantic and emotional little
brother. "Fans rushing the field" is not what decides a game. The
scoreboard at 0:00 does. And that metric favors Utah. And since 22-pts was all
that was needed to close down the Indy-WACers, Utah did in fact win that game in
the 3rd-Qtr.And for what it's worth, had Stephenson's kick
been true, that would not have decided the game. The game would have been
decided in OT. But since the game didn't go into OT, Utah's final TD
in the 3rd Qtr was what finally decided the game.Furthermore,
Stephenson missed a 51-yd FG. That is not an anomoly. That penalty on
Utah's fans was a bad call since your coaches were on the field as well,
and neither group effected the outcome of the game. Stephenson missing a 36-yd
FG is ALSO not an anomoly. He hadn't connected on a kick over 33-yds in
his entire cougar career.
Cougars1"why are Utah "fans" so obsessed with BYU's
schedule?"Because three years after supposedly "leaving the
Cougars in the dust", the PACy-WACers are still having nightmares about BYU
stealing all of their big boy conference thunder.
ekute,why are Utah "fans" so obsessed with BYU's schedule?
You're not impressed with some team the Cougars will be playing in 5 or 6
years? I don't think anyone cares what your assessment of that team is.
Besides, what does the Super Bowl have to do with any of this. Not one BYU fan
said anything about Virginia being a powerhouse. Just a good game to have on the
Naval, why are you so obsessed with all things WAC and all things BYU?
Shouldn't you be commenting on Ute articles about their improving
basketball team? You and Chris B sound a lot more like disgruntled
BYU fans in a huff over the Big 12...
navelvet"There was nothing inaccurate about my claim..."A half-truth, my dear PACy-WACer, is the same as a whole untruth.The game wasn't decided until BYU's final FG try, with no time
left on the clock, bounced off the upright.
Another powerhouse football team on byu's schedule. Congratulations.After reviewing all them stats,rankings,ratings,etc. I'm convinced, byu
will win the Super Bowl next year.(despite the head-to-head)
Naval,Nice try. Now you just sound frantic and emotional. The game was not
decided until the field goal was missed by BYU. As evidenced by the Ute fans
rushing the field twice in the last few seconds of the game. How many times
during the year did Utah fans rush the field? Twice. Both times against BYU.
Seems as though the fans are having a hard time putting BYU in the rear view
mirror. That was their bowl game I guess.
Cougars1:There was nothing inaccurate about my claim that the Utes
beat our Indy-WACey little brother by the 3rd Qtr. We DID! We needed only
22-pts to win that game, and we put 24 on the board before the 4th. That's
the cold hard facts.
navelvet"Weak SOS = more wins.More wins = higher
ranking."Sorry, that's not how it works; here are the
correct formulas:Overall Record versus SOS = RankingHigher Ranking = Better Team#1 Alabama > #5 Texas A&M
(despite the head-to-head)#2 Oregon > #7 Stanford (despite the
head-to-head)#16 Utah State > unranked BYU (despite the
head-to-head)and since the polls only rank the Top 25, in Sagarin#26 BYU > #61 Utah (despite the head-to-head)
naval vet"However, Utah's ineptitude of the 80s reversed by
the 90s, and had regained the state's overall supremacy."Sorry to burst your bubble, but Utah hasn't had a single decade since the
60's in which the Utes had more Top 25 finishes than the Cougars:60's - BYU(0) Utah(1)70's - BYU(2) Utah(0)80's -
BYU(6) Utah(0)90's - BYU(4) Utah(1)00's - BYU(5)
Utah(4)10's - BYU(1) Utah(1)Total - BYU(18) Utah(7)
Eliot"Actually, when comparing two teams, the ultimate measure
of success is head-to-head competition."Actually, that's
not true. The ultimate measure of success is overall success.Worse
teams lose to better teams all the time; that's why they call them
"upsets" - see Utah versus Colorado 2011 or Utah versus UNLV
2007.Six of the last eight games being decided by a touchdown or
less in the final minutes or in overtime is proof enough that neither team has
been "dominant", butfive Top 25 finishes to only threethree Top 15 finishes to only onetwo undefeated conference championships
to only onefive 10-plus win seasons to only threeeight bowl games to
only sevenis proof enough that BYU has been the better team overall
during the Bronco/Kyle era.
Naval,BYU still had the edge in the 90's. It wasn't until 2k
that Utah regained supremacy. Yes, I said it. You can't call me a
delusional Cougar fan. If Utah is better, then they are better. My only argument
is that BYU had a better year last year than Utah. Utah needs to step up in the
PAC or they will be no more relevant than Colorado, WSU, or any other team that
continually finishes in the bottom half of the conference.You also
stated on another thread that the BYU/Utah game was decided in the 3rd quarter
last year. If you want any sort of credibility, you at least need to be honest
with yourself. You might start by not being so obsessed with BYU while claiming
that you are a "fan" of the Utes.
Cougars1:I don't know why you're arguing a point about
Utah's ineptitude back in the 80s. No Ute fans had been suggesting
otherwise. However, Utah's ineptitude of the 80s reversed by the 90s, and
had regained the state's overall supremacy. Pointing back to the 80s does
nothing to refute that fact.
mussingaround:Weak SOS = more wins.More wins = higher
ranking.Utah had more wins and a higher ranking than the Y during
our final season in the MWC because we played similar schedules. Then, in 2011
and 2012, we played a significantly stronger SOS, and subsequently lost more
games. Conversely, the Indy-WACers played a significantly weaker SOS, and
therefore, won more games. You guys like to hide behind your W/L record because
you know that head-to-head, there's just no comparison. Edge: Utah.P.S.: When looking back at our common opponents these past few seasons,
it's clear who was the better team. Obviously, the head-to-head
appearances favor your big brother on the Hill, but our common opponents show
our wins were no fluke. Over the past 3 seasons, Utah had gone 10-3 vs. common
opponents. The Y had gone 8-5, and with one of those wins thanks to Chad Bunn.
Edge: Utah. The margins of victory also favor the Utes by a total of 157-pts.
There's no way to spin that.
Actually, when comparing two teams, the ultimate measure of success is
head-to-head competition. Since Utah has pretty much owned BYU the last couple
of years I think it would be well for Cougar fans to give their chests a rest
for a while and stop thumping them until something changes in the fall.
@navelvetWhat a frantic and emotional response.Who cares
how many ranked teams the PACy-WACers have beaten, if you're not good
enough to be ranked yourselves.As a PACy-WACer you're not even
good enough to qualify for a bowl game every year, let alone be ranked. Compare
that to your big brother who has already been ranked once and has played in a
bowl game every year as an Independent.Actual results:
(Coaches/AP/Sagarin)2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39
Utah(8-5)2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) bowl winner > unranked/#61
Utah(5-7) bowl no showBYU has been a perennial Top 25 team since
1977 (18 Top 25 finishes in 35 seasons - over 50%)Utah has only been
ranked six times during the same period (17%)Cherry-pick your
highlights if it helps U sleep at night, but bottom line, overall records and
rankings are the ultimate measures of success.
Hey Naval,At least BYU teams were going to bowl games in the 80's.As for your comparison to the Vegas Bowl. Yes, there have been ranked
teams in the Vegas Bowl. The difference is that those ranked teams in the
Holiday Bowl played against a ranked BYU team. For fun, let's
go with you and just say that the Holiday Bowl was just an also-ran in the
80's when they were tied to the WAC. Why didn't Utah go to that
"no better than the Vegas" Bowl when they had the chance? Let me answer
that. Because they were always in the basement of the WAC. The WAC! But, to help make your point(I can't believe I am doing this), if the
Holiday Bowl was a better bowl than the Vegas bowl is now, it wasn't by
much. Although, the Vegas Bowl has a ways to go just to match the payout of the
Holiday Bowl then. By the end of the 80's the Holiday Bowl had a payout of
$1.2 million per team. Today, the Vegas Bowl is at $1 million per team.
talkinsports:How are we "no walk"? We've beaten more
teams ranked in the Final polls than the Indy-WACers...both in the overall
"W" column, as well as the overall W/L pct. "Not
surprisingly, the vast majority of Utah's bowl wins occurred against
mediocre teams beginning in the 90's."Yes, not
surprising...because THAT's when we put McBride, Meyer, and Whittingham on
the sidelines. Had we had coaches like that back in the 70s and 80s, we still
would have played in the postseason. You guys peaked in the 80s, but got passed
up by Utah, TCU, and BSU by the time the BCS-era took root. Now Utah and TCU
are playing "big boy" football, and BSU has taken firm control of the
reins as the top mid-major school in the country.
bacWACn:"PACy-WACers"?What a desperate jab.
Which teams in the Pac-12 left their conference(s) to play WAC football over
these past 40-yrs? Any? Nope? I thought not. In fact, the Indy-WACers played
50% MORE teams playing in the WAC these past 2 seasons, than the entire Pac-12
COMBINED. How frantic and emotional of you.
Naval VetYou're all talk, but no walk when it comes to ultimate
bowl team success.SEVENTEEN of BYU's bowl teams (win or lose)
have finished in the Final AP Top 25.only FIVE of Utah's bowl
teams (win or lose) have finished in the Final AP Top 25.If
Utah's bowl teams were even half as good as you pretend they were, more
than five of them would have been good enough to be ranked in the Top 25.The truth is, with the out-of-control proliferation of bowls beginning
in the 90's, bowl game winners are now a dime a dozen. Not surprisingly,
the vast majority of Utah's bowl wins occurred against mediocre teams
beginning in the 90's.
Whatsnu:The Holiday Bowl didn't overtake the Sun Bowl in
prestige until AFTER dumping the WAC. Prior to that, the Holiday took a distant
backseat."...many of the other minor bowls today that host
mostly mediocre, unranked 5th and 6th place teams with 7-5 or worse
records."Sort of like the 1984 Holiday Bowl dontcha think? An
unranked, 6-5 Michigan team, who tied for 6th-place in the BigTen. Very Las
Vegas Bowl-ish.So back to my original point to CougFaninTX...apart
from the 1997 Cotton Bowl, there were no other major/upper level bowl games the
cougars had played in, and the Holiday of the 70s, 80s, and 90s = the Las Vegas
of today."Compare that with the Holiday Bowl of the 80's,
where Top 20 BYU teams regularly played Top 20 teams..."The Y
played in 6 Holiday Bowls in the 1980s. Only 3 were vs. ranked teams (#20 SMU,
#15 Penn St, #12 Ohio St). So if "half" means "regular", than
that fairly well matches up with the current Las Vegas Bowl as well (#25 Cal
& Ariz, #18 BSU, #9 BSU, #8 BSU).
@lintRemind us again which bowl the PACy-WACers played in last
season.I know it's difficult for U to keep up with all of your
spin, but the Final Coaches poll IS the OFFICIAL Final bcs poll for purposes of
crowning the bcs champion.
navel"That doesn't refute my point that the Holiday Bowl
back in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s was no more prestigious than the Las Vegas
Bowl now."Actually it does refute you point, since there were
far fewer bowls in the 70's and 80's, the Holiday Bowl was much bigger
than the Las Vegas, Sun, and many of the other minor bowls today that host
mostly mediocre, unranked 5th and 6th place teams with 7-5 or worse records.Compare that with the Holiday Bowl of the 80's, where Top 20 BYU
teams regularly played Top 20 teams like Ohio State, SMU (the Pony Express), and
@NavalSo insecure and obsessed.Tedious, really.Your
"False Bravado" has finally caught up with U.Get back to us when
the U can post a winning season in football.
backWACn:"...according to the 'official' final bogus
championship series poll, the Coaches Poll..."As an Indy-WACer,
you've never actually "been there" so I understand, you don't
just don't understand. So allow me to explain it to you:(1)
The Final BCS Poll is a separate poll from the final Coaches Poll. And that BCS
poll is only produced to determine who will play in the five BCS bowls. After
the bowl games have been played, there is no further poll updating the
results.(2) The Final Coaches Poll is obligated* to vote for the
winner of the BCS Nat'l Champion.(3) The AP poll USED to vote
in the BCS, but withdrew itself due to their perceived lack of integrity. This
did not invalidate that poll. It just meant that the BCS had to look for
another polling institution...and in this case, they chose the Harris.(4) The AP poll is compiled by sportswriters...aka, folks who actually WATCH
the games. The Coaches' poll is compiled by the
"insterest-conflicted" coaches, who do NOT watch the games.
TrueBlue:"Yet, BYU almost always played a very good, Top 20 team
from a power conference in the Holiday Bowl..."That doesn't
refute my point that the Holiday Bowl back in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s was no
more prestigious than the Las Vegas Bowl now. The Las Vegas Bowl had hosted
some Top-25 teams in their own right hosting at least one ranked team over the
past 8 seasons, from #25 Cal (2005) and Arizona (2008) up to #8 Boise St (2011).
"Except for two notable exceptions, Utah's bowl history is
nothing but an endless parade of mediocre opponents including Utah's much
ballyhooed Fiesta Bowl opponent."The U faces twice as many
Top-10 opponents in our bowl games than the Y, and actually BEAT one. In fact,
the Utes had beaten more Top-25 opponents in our postseason appearances than the
cougars. Except for only ONE notable exception -- the 1997 Cotton Bowl -- the
cougars don't have much to crow about either.Utah has been your
big brother on the gridiron, in the postseason, AND in the recruiting wars. How
miserable for you. Poor Indy-WACer.
"The only way a team "wins" a national championship is when the #1
team plays the #2 team."So how do you explain USC winning the
2003 national championship, since the Trojans didn't even play in the bogus
championship game?It's laughable that when the kids on the hill
cite Utah's 2004 and 2008 rankings, they always cite the poll that
isn't even associated with the bogus championship series - in other words,
the poll that determines its national champion in exactly the same way today, as
it did when it was established in 1936, and incidentally, in exactly the same
way it determined the 1984 national champion.btw, according to the
"official" final bogus championship series poll, the Coaches Poll, the
Utes only finished #4 in their greatest season ever.
Naval VetPhiladelphia, PAWhich bowl game were your fans super
duper excited to play in this year?Clark W. GriswoldSandy,
UtahTwist and turn to your heart's content, but the crystal
'ball in Provo looks pretty much like the ones in Alabama.And
to concede a small point, no, Michigan would not have won the national
championship. They would have defeated the number 1 team in the nation and
denied THEM the national championship. Something that Bo Schembechler was
positive they could do, and so very graciously proclaimed to the world that if
BYU won that game, they would deserve to be national champions.Of
course, he changed his tune after they lost. Actually sounded kinda like
you.I have never liked Bo very much since then.
clarky"The only way a team "wins" a national
championship is when the #1 team plays the #2 team."LOL at your
jealous, delusional, whiny spin.BYU was the #1-ranked team in the
country (both major polls). Any team wanting to claim the championship had to go
through BYU; unfortunately for U, Washington and Nebraska passed on the
opportunity and BYU beat the only team brave enough to play the Cougars in the
@ Y Grad / Y Dad"The Holiday Bowl became a relevant and
prestigious bowl game on the back of BYU. How many bowls can boast that the
national championship was won on their field?"Don't kid
yourself! BYU never "WON" a national championship,they were
"VOTED" it. They're is a big difference between the two.Secondly you claim the Holiday Bowl was the sight where the national
championship was won on the field. If that's the case, if Michigan (6-6)
were to have won that game against BYU. Would Michigan be crowned National
Champions in 1984? The answer is no! The only way a team "wins" a
national championship is when the #1 team plays the #2 team. BYU played neither
of the two. So that means they didn't win it!
Y grad/Y dad:"In the 70s, playing in any bowl game was
prestigious."Not bowls with WAC ties. And if the Fiesta Bowl
was so "prestigious" back in 1974, why did it feature a 7-3-1 WAC team
vs. a 6-5 SWC team? And you call THAT "prestigious"? No wonder your
fans were super duper excited to play in the New Mexico Bowl.
Great games on the schedule.We're gonna beat these guys.
Continuing their state champion ways--BYU is the "University of
Utah".No amount of envy can change that.
Ah, navel, once again your irrational loathing of all things blue is painfully
obvious to everyone but you. The Holiday Bowl became a relevant and prestigious
bowl game on the back of BYU. How many bowls can boast that the national
championship was won on their field?In the 70s, playing in any bowl
game was prestigious. Like today, some more so than others. Also like today,
playing in ANY bowl game is more prestigious than playing in no bowl game at
Naval Vet"And the Holiday Bowl didn't become an upper level
bowl until after disassociating itself from the WAC."Yet, BYU
almost always played a very good, Top 20 team from a power conference in the
Holiday Bowl, a huge step up from the unranked, 5th and 6th place conference
also rans that Utah has played in 90% of their bowls.Except for two
notable exceptions, Utah's bowl history is nothing but an endless parade of
mediocre opponents including Utah's much ballyhooed Fiesta Bowl opponent.
Should be pretty neat.
Just SmilingBOUNTIFUL, UTGetting REAL excited about a game
against a team that went 5-7 last season.
CougFaninTX:Back in the 70s, the Fiesta Bowl WAS a lower level bowl.
And the Holiday Bowl didn't become an upper level bowl until after
disassociating itself from the WAC. While tied to the WAC, it was no more
prestigious than the Las Vegas Bowl is now.Don't make your bowl
history out to be bigger than it really was. You had the Cotton Bowl, and
Anybody else having a hard time getting excited about a game against a team that
went 4-8 last season?
The DeuceI'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. Way too much
knee jerk reaction going on
We should all be excited with the perceived improvement in the schedule for the
Cougars. However, based uopn what we have seen the last couple of seasons, do
you really think things are going to get better? The Cougars have not yet made
the needed changes to move the program forward. Yes, there has been some window
dressing. However, a large part of the problems from last year were based on
poor decisions made by the head coach and others. While we all recognize that
BYU is trying to improve their schedule, they still have not dealt with the real
issues. Until the AD follows through on his comments to make major changes in
the program, we will be right back here next year. It is time for a new head
flatlander - Mendenhall is 6 W and 2 L in bowl games. In Texas, that's
75%, not 40%. If you include the Lavell era, it is about 40%, but then
you're including Fiesta, Cotton and numerous Holiday bowl appearances. Not
sure those are lower level bowls.Assuming BYU gets 4 or 5 marquee
games, like next year, Virginia is a good addition to the schedule. They are
not Notre Dame, but they're a much better game than Idaho or Idaho St.Planning 8 years out, should result in a decent schedule.
Love the game in Virginia. Phenomenal stadium and experience. Time to schedule a
game in the midwest: Kansas State, Tulsa, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Missouri
I think it is a good match. Virginia goes to similar lower level bowls and has
about the same winning percentage (40%) in them. The goal should be to schedule
teams you will be competitive with so they are good games. Virginia is not top
tier ACC and BYU wouldn't be either if they were in that conference. BYU
fans back east get to see a good game. It beats playing Delaware.
@Worf"Independence is great"Hahahaha!
I hope Virginia is out of the ACC gutter by then.
A good quality addition. I wonder if BYU will still be independent in 2019
though. Maybe.....who knows.
Independence is great.
Another nice addition to BYU's future football schedules.Nice