Hamblin & Peterson: Old Testament divine council called a 'sod'

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  • coltakashi Richland, WA
    Jan. 30, 2013 9:19 a.m.

    Crucifixion was a Persian practice as well. Perhaps no other culture adopted it with as much enthusiasm as the Romans, but in that as in many other things they adopted parts of other cultures.

  • Ann Amberly Greenbelt, MD
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    The authors should point out that women, too, are members of God's sod.

  • Coach Biff Lehi, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    Brokenclay you seem to be straining at gnats and swallowing camels when it comes to the imperfections of the BOM. Need I point any out in the Bible for reference? Joseph says in the prologue that any mistakes are the mistakes of men. (ie idiosyncracies, semantics, and overall lack of education) No way he came up with this tome uninspired in the amount of time he did with his lack of technology and equipment. Nit pick all you want. Doesn't take away one iota of truth.

  • brokenclay Chandler, AZ
    Jan. 28, 2013 8:44 p.m.

    It's awful convenient that Psalm 58 refers to unrighteous human rulers, but then Psalm 82 is used to support the LDS view of the sod (see Peterson's citation), despite the striking similarities between the two psalms.

    God has taken his place in the divine council;
    in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
    How long will you judge unjustly
    and show partiality to the wicked? (Psalm 82:1-2)

    Sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

    Selected Book of Mosiah anachronisms:
    1. 2:18 (John 13:13-14)
    2. 3:9 (scourging and crucifixion are Roman; this would have made no sense to New World Hebrews)
    3. 5:15 (1 Cor 15:58)
    4. 23:13 (Gal 5:1)
    5. 27:29 (Acts 8:23)
    6. 12:6 (Jer 18:17; east wind is a judgment in Israel because it's a hot and dry wind from the eastern desert; why is it being spoken of in an American context of judgment?)

  • John Simpson ARLINGTON, VA
    Jan. 28, 2013 7:14 p.m.

    Further response to Broken Clay:
    As far as the alleged "anachronisms" are concerned, how about some specifics? Note that it will not do to claim as an "anachronism" the use of the title "Christ" in the Book of Mosiah, or the use of the past tense in referring to Christ's ministry. This is a common literary device in ancient prophetic writing, as for example certain Messianic prophecies like Isaiah 9:2: "The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light; and they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined."

    Remember that there was no need to "hide the ball" to the inhabitants of the Americas as to Jesus' mission, since it was not part of God's plan for them crucify Him. Prophets could talk about future events in the past tense since they had already seen these events in visions, so in a sense these events were already real to them.

  • John Simpson ARLINGTON, VA
    Jan. 28, 2013 6:59 p.m.

    In response to "Broken Clay," the answer to your question is "no." The reference in Psalm 58:1 is to the unrighteous human rulers of David's cabinet or judiciary, not to heavenly beings who form part of God's council, much less to the future redeemed to whom it is promised (I Cor. 2:9) that "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him."

  • brokenclay Chandler, AZ
    Jan. 28, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    "Do you indeed decree what is right, you gods?
    Do you judge the children of man uprightly?
    No, in your hearts you devise wrongs;
    your hands deal out violence on earth." (Psalm 58:1-2)

    Are these the gods that the LDS believe they will one day become?

    It's unclear to me why a concept that comes straight from the Bible (sod) and then appears in LDS writings counts in favor of the LDS worldview, when it is so much more likely that Joseph Smith slavishly copied this and more from the Bible. I read the book of Mosiah a few weeks ago, and then documented 40 anachronisms I found (there were many more than that). Even one anachronism can be devastating to a piece of literature . . . but FORTY, in one short book? The most plausible explanation is that Joseph Smith forged the documents, shamelessly incorporating all kinds of concepts from his 19th century environment, including the idea of a divine council.

    The Living God calls for your hearts in mercy. Don't be deceived by others (Deut 18:20).

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Jan. 27, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    RE: gods"or "sons of God" (Psalm 82:1, 6)or "Holy Ones."

    James Talmage, Jesus the Christ page 501. “Divinely Appointed Judges called “gods . In Psalms 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called gods, to this the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon’s Porch.” John 10:34,”Ye(you) are gods”, Not even Mormons believe they are gods right now.

    RE: 1 Kings 22:19-23, Michaiah describes his vision of God's "sod" as follows: "I saw the Lord, s/b(LORD,YHWH) sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him … and the Lord. s/b(LORD,(YHWH)

    @ the divine council(Trinity) ( Isaiah6:3) And they were calling to one another: “Holy, holy, holy(Tris-hagios) is the (LORD,YHWH) Almighty;. Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus'(YHWH) glory and spoke about him(John 12:41 NIV)

    Job provides a description of God's "sod," composed of the "*sons of God," meeting in council (Job 1:6, 2:1),NIV *angels of God. Modern translations are helpful.