White House, senators starting push on immigration

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  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 10:35 p.m.

    @Say Non to BO
    I've never heard of the Church being selective about disobeying the laws of the land that are "bad," either. And you didn't hear me propose disobedience. I propose that we as a nation change our policies to allow more LEGAL immigration before God holds our nation accountable for disobeying HIS laws. It's not illegal to allow more visas. And it won't be illegal if the law is changed to allow for amnesty. I, too, believe in the rule of law--both man's and God's laws.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 9:09 a.m.

    @John C. C.
    I've never heard of the church being selective about disobeying the laws of the land that are "bad."
    In fact, Elder Oaks would take issue with you. As he explained in a talk a few years ago, the only exceptions might be something like mandatory abortion. The immigration laws clearly do not rise to that level.
    You would do well to review the handbook of instructions which clearly states that people should migrate legally. It's what we do when they disobey the law that troubles me.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    Say No to BO sadly misunderstands the position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They respect the laws of God, too. Our nation "by the people" made bad law and will be held accountable for ignoring God's will that we welcome the stranger and love our neighbors as ourselves.

    To anti-liar, it is clearly immoral, unfair, and wrong for us to keep those millions around the world who actually do love America waiting respectfully in line. SLars rightfully pointed out that those who follow our laws are penalized. Reward them by letting them come in. They will be even more law-abiding than the ones who are already here.

    "There is no way American citizens can compete with guest workers." So we punish them?

    Yes, SLars, the gap between the rich and the rest of us is growing still greater. If we had more legal workers, the business tycoons would no longer be able to exploit so many undocumented workers.

    To prelax and all others who worry about jobs I repeat, immigrant workers create more jobs than they take.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 27, 2013 4:48 a.m.

    If we are to believe the reports, then one inevitably must conclude that the Latino culture in America, at large, does not respect the rule of law.

    What Republicans need to understand is that the pro-illegal immigration/anti-enforcement "Latino vote" indicates a fault NOT with the Republican Party, but rather the value system of the Latino culture in America -- again, if we are to believe the reports. Rewarding, with legalization, persons who disdain this nation, its sovereignty, its borders and its laws, who show such disrespect for its citizens, while millions around the world -- who actually DO love America -- continue to wait respectfully in line, CLEARLY is immoral, unfair, and wrong.

    And everyone knows it!

    What is needed in this country, instead of essentially surrendering the sovereignty of the United States to Mexico in order to win the "Latino vote," is a smidgen of INTEGRITY on the part of our politicians -- which means obeying, honoring, sustaining, and enforcing the law, for a change.

    Shamefully, the value-systems of illegal aliens, the unscrupulous businessmen who hire them, and the corrupt politicians who are paid off by the businessmen, are marked by covetousness, greed, and corruption, respectively.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 26, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    I have fought this battle since 2006. In the process I have lost faith in the church as well as the politicians. The law itself means less to me than before I walked down this road of pointing out to our "leaders" that something is very wrong when they extoll the virtues of those who are unlawfully present.
    I no longer shake my head when those elected and those of my faith stand in the way of deserved deportation. The LDS Church once stood firmly in the camp of defending the law of the land. That standard now has conditions attached. I never thought I'd see the Presiding Bishop stand with the politicians and make comments at a photo op. How far we've come.
    2013 may very well be the year when we sell out the rule of law to trespassers from the third world. And like the 1986 amnesty, this one will fail to stem the tide because we lack the political will to enforce the laws legitimately enacted.
    Last one out, bring the flag.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Jan. 26, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    Of the many comments I have seen about illegal immigration, one of the best comes from Vernon Briggs, a Cornell University labor economics professor:
    "The toleration of illegal immigration undermines all of our labor; it rips at the social fabric. It's a race to the bottom. The one who plays by the rules is penalized... a guest worker program guarantees wages will never go up, and there is no way American citizens can compete with guest workers."

    We have seen seven amnesties since 1986. They add up to 6 million illegal workers given citizenship. It doesn't stop the problem, it keeps it going. Americans must demand enforcement against most before amnesty is given to the few. We must be convinced our leaders will enforce our laws.

    There is a reason our wages have dropped over the past 40 years, and the gap between rich and poor has widened. Between illegal immigration, and legal immigration giving our record numbers, we will be guaranteeing depressed wages to our children and grandchildren.

    The open border folks backed by big business has seen that our laws are not enforced. It has to stop, it has hurt to many people.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Jan. 26, 2013 3:30 a.m.

    Over a million legal residents (green cards) are allowed here each year. I think that is more than enough, especially when we already have 12 million people already here on green cards from other years, that have never applied for citizenship. They just want the jobs.

    Last year Obama gave out 3.3 million work visas. Many to people illegally here in the country. With this economy, I think that's to many. Add in Obama's student visas and his first of the year waiver for relatives and we have flooded our labor market.

    There is a reason for this, many business owners have said they would reduce all workers to 28 hours, except a few top management people. In order to do this, they need more cheap labor.

    It's not compassion, as families have already been united by the waivers already. This is war between business and labor. Is it any wonder the newly created jobs have went to low wage earners, and the middle class has seen the most loses.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 9:29 p.m.

    What's missing from these proposals is a big increase in the number of foreign born allowed to move here. Not just temporary workers. Real immigrants. They give us strength, just like our own ancestors gave our country strength when they moved here.

    Our visa restrictions are much too narrow. Let's have faith in the laws of supply and demand. Forget your prejudices. A new surge of immigrants would give our economy just the boost it needs.

    Contrary to common belief, new immigrant workers create more jobs for the natives than they take.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 8:40 p.m.

    NO to citizenship for illegals. NO NO NO NO!!!!!!

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 2:58 p.m.

    If the states or the federal government mandated e-verify along with draconian penalties for non-compliance, they could solve 75-80% of the illegal immigrant trespassing problem overnite.

    They don't REALLY want to fix immigration. They want to pander to businesses and tax individual Americans for the services that illegal immigrant trespassers steal on a daily basis.

    BOTH political parties think that by pandering by illegal trespassers they can convince LEGAL hispanic Americans to vote for them.

    There's NOTHING AT ALL wrong with the present immigration law; except it isn't enforced.

    They won't enforce a new one either.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    Jan. 25, 2013 2:14 p.m.

    The real problem I have with changing the immigration laws is that since 1986 they have not been fully enforced by the Federal Gov't. That creates 2 issues for me:
    1. How do you determine what parts require changes when you have no data to determine whether or not they work when fully enforced.
    2. If the Federal Gov't has never fully enforced the current laws, what proof do we the people have that they would enforce any new changes?

    What faith would we have in the State if they said "There will be a $500 fine for speeding. But we will only write a ticket to every 100th person that each officer catches each month".
    Most likely we would have a lot more speeders due to the low odds that they will be caught.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 1:47 p.m.

    The proposal includes "ways for more temporary workers to be admitted into the country."

    With unemployment still very high, I question the wisdom of it. I know many will claim that I am proposing "protectionism", but given that temporary workers frequently come on visas that are owned by the employer and are therefore not fully subject to the free market, it really isn't protectionism to be against more temporary worker programs that admit hundreds of thousands of workers.

    For example, given the H-1B visa used widely in the technology industry, free market champion and Noble Prize economist Milton Friedman called the H-1B visa a government "subsidy given to employers" to bypass the free market in their hiring. As such, nearly 40% of all US IT workers are with this visa. Many of the temporary workers programs Obama proposes are similar.

    Americans should be cautious about Obama's proposals for immigration reform. Many working Americans would be hurt economically by it by making it even more difficult to find and keep good employment, being that American workers would have to compete against these temporary immigrant worker programs that are essentially government subsidies given to employers.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Jan. 25, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    Immigration isn't only with people from Mexico. Texas is also having problems with immigration. Many are coming here from Californis, and New York. Some questions:

    * why can't these people live with the leaders they voted in?
    * why bring their liberal ideas to Texas?

    They made their beds, now sleep in it.