Different gun approach

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  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:16 p.m.

    Good letter. For many years the NRA has been the major gun safety educational force in America. When law-abiding Americans are able to keep and bear arms, our society is safer. Gun control erodes that safety.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 5:17 p.m.

    Re:One old man

    Reread my post paying attention to the BOLDED words. Those are the facts you misrepresented.

    "We need more organisations like the NRA to teach gun safety. But they've had the opportunity for years and haven't done so,"

    So...you don't know much about the NRA do you?


    "His statements and conduct, after the Sandy Hook school shooting were also insensitive, and he fully and the NRA deserve the distain they are receiving."

    What did he say or do after the Sandy Hook Shootings that garners your disdain?

    If I recall, the NRA stayed out of the conversations for over a week. Then they re-iterated their stand on the value of gun possession. They offered a solution that is now being embraced by both sides of the aisle. They said that we should look at the factors that contribute to societal violence like the entertainment industry. I am not sure which of those responses deserve disdain? I get that the NRA's response did not feed into your narrative, but isn't that to be expected?

    Or do you just disdain anyone who does not think like you?

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 4:54 p.m.

    So the mantra from conservatives I keep hearing boils down to two points. First, criminals aren't going to follow the laws anyways, so we shouldn't have restrictions on guns. Second, instead of banning guns we need to educate people about them.
    First, of course criminals aren't going to follow the law, or they wouldn't be criminals. But you can make that argument for any law on the books. If no one ever stole, murdered, assaulted or raped anyone we wouldn't need any laws ever would we?
    Second, At the same time the NRA types are saying they want more education, they are also supporting a law that would allow concealed carry in Utah without a permit, ie: less education. I would personally think that instead of making less education required if you really believed what you were saying you would want to expand the classes for CWP's, maybe even to include a proficiency portion of the class. I guess i'm just a bit confused about your x2 standard.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 23, 2013 3:42 p.m.


    ".....why is it that liberals want to take away the assault rifles rather than educating kids on how to handle them?"

    Assault rifles themselves are the issue here.

    It's often in the aftermath of an event like Newtown that gun enthusiasts pull out the safety training argument to demonstrate concern, not to suggest that there aren't some who genuinely are concerned.

    Or some other red herring argument such as raising the issue of video games, movies, etc. as the real culprit in the tragedy. No red herring arguments to shift the focus off of the one topic that the NRA wants kept off the table. Not this time.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    To "Irony Guy" if what I say is wrong, then why is it that liberals want to take away the assault rifles rather than educating kids on how to handle them?

    Lets see what the leading liberals want to do. So far they want to ban certain guns, and have offered nothing with respect to education (not training).

  • Beverly Eden, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 3:06 p.m.

    The NRA Executive Director, Wayne LaPierre, says things and then apologizes. If he didn't think them in the first place, he wouldn't need to apologize or state that his comments were, "taken out of context." As a former federal agent, I know he painted all of us as "Jack-booted thugs." How do you form a statement like that, without giving it some heart felt thought. Wayne LaPierre, will say and do almost anything to keep gun sales flowing. His statements and conduct, after the Sandy Hook school shooting were also insensitive, and he fully and the NRA deserve the distain they are receiving.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 2:55 p.m.

    Wow, RedShirt. You figured us all out with on broad-brush statement. I grew up in the home of a liberal college professor. He sent all of his kids to Hunter's Safety courses and we hunted with actual rifles and pistols my entire life. I grew up to be in the military where I handled weapons as a condition of employment. I don't say that lightly as I was an Aircraft Armament Systems Specialist in the Air Force and an Armorer, and small arms instructor in the Army. I can almost guarantee you that I know more about firearms safety, both small arms and aircraft armament than you ever dreamed of knowing. No, I don't think kids should experiment with risky sexual behavior, nor do I believe AR-15s have any place in civilized society outside of the military. I don't have a problem with background checks for gun ownership. I prefer to have loaded weapons in the hands of people withe the mental capacity to handle them.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    RedShirt, I'm a liberal and I would love to see kids get a proper education in handling firearms. My daughter was trained at age 8, and I've been trained myself. But I have never lost a healthy fear of guns. Anyone who doesn't fear guns is very dangerous. Your premise about liberals is dead wrong.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    I came to this realization last night. The liberals are all about educating kids so that they can engage in risky sexual behavior more safely. Why are they opposed to educating those same kids about guns so that they can safely handle a gun?

    Why do liberals want to prevent our kids from receiving a proper education so that they can exist in society and handle firearms safely? Do liberals want to have to train secret service personnel to overcome their fear of guns before they can protect the President and his children?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    Grundle, please explain how I distorted any facts? LaPierre said what he said and Bush said what he said.

    LaPierre's "apology" was much too little much too late.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:20 p.m.

    "Criminals will have and use guns no matter what the law is."

    Is that lame argument for lax gun laws the best or the only one your side is able to come up with?

    A word about the National Rifle Association. Don't buy into the sordid myth that the NRA represents gun owners in America. The NRA lobbies for the lucrative gun manufacturing industry whose overriding interest is the pursuit of profit, not what's in the interest of the public safety of over 300 million Americans. The NRA extolling of the Bill of Rights is for the convenient cover it provides. Responsible gun owners don't need a fig leaf.

  • Say What? Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    There should be law against criminal activity. Especially crimes where guns are used.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    We need more organisations like the NRA to teach gun safety. But they've had the opportunity for years and haven't done so, and the current changes don't prevent them from doing so now or in the future. Since that's not working, let's try some real changes, shall we?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    20 children were murdered in an elementary school last month.

    This week, a 15 year old boy killed his family with their own gun.

    We need to do something different.

    More Americans have died from domestic gun violence than in all the wars after 1968...


  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    Ask your police when was the last time a person in Brigham city was assaulted too. Include those assaulted by animals other than humans. I am sure there are many.

    There are many reasons to have a gun to protect yourself.

    Don't let those paranoid of guns fool you. Guns can and do protect many people.

    But do know how to use them, and do keep them away from children and the mentally unstable.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    Re: One Old Man

    Your selective editing of the facts continue to discredit you.

    Shortly BEFORE the Oklahoma City bombing, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter describing federal agents as "jack-booted government thugs" who wear "Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms". FORMER president George H. W. Bush was so outraged by the letter that he resigned his NRA life membership. In response to GROWING CRITICISM, LaPierre APOLOGIZED, saying he didn't intend to "paint all federal law-enforcement officials with the same broad brush".

    Context? Fundraising efforts aimed at gun advocates that believe (as I do) that gun ownership's primary purpose is to prevent government tyranny. Still too extreme for my tastes.

    Also, The Bush family was preparing for another run at the presidency (successfully I might add) and so this could be interpreted as political distancing.

    Stupid thing to say...Yes. Don't get me wrong, I am not a LaPierre fan, but you twisted the facts to strengthen your point.

    Interestingly, the heavily criticized statement that we ought to have armed guards in our schools by LaPierre is being embraced by both sides of the aisle to some degree.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    Since it's printed twice now -- I thought I'd have a little fun with it today...

    "President Obama's plan to restrict drugs is a tragic mistake. Criminals will have and use drugs no matter what the law is. It should be OK for law-abiding citizens to have and use drugs.

    We need more organizations like the InterNational Drug Cartels to promote and teach drug safety."


    "President Obama's plan to restrict same-sex marriage is a tragic mistake. Homo-sexuals will have sex no matter what the law is. It should be OK for law-abiding citizens to have same-sex marriages.

    We need more organizations like the National Gay-Lesbian Associations to promote and teach safe sex."


    "President Obama's plan to restrict Government spending is a tragic mistake. Corporations will have lucritive Government Contracts and use that money to buy Government influence no matter what the law is. It should be OK for law-abiding Corporations to have and use Tax-payers money.

    We need more Corporations like G.E. to promote and teach bilking the citizens of taxes, getting $Billion subsidezes and then not pay a dime in taxes in return."

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    If we close the gun show loophole decent people can still get their guns (just have to have a background check) and criminals will not be able to so easily get a gun.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    It's only 10:30 a.m., but there are already six posters who belittle the Constitution by mocking a citizen's right to keep and bear arms. They think nothing of using their right to speak; but, they demand that no one except them has the right to decide what other rights, guaranteed or not, that citizens of America should have.

    That's exactly why we have a Constitution to keep liberals and their ilk from taking away our rights. That's exactly why 75% of the States have to ratify any new amendment to the Constitution.

    We have the guaranteed right to keep and bear arms. The liberals demand that they have the right to destroy that right by Presidential action or by an act of Congress. It just shows that they haven't read the Constitution and that they despise the 2008 and 2010 Court rulings that specifically stated we have the right to keep and bear arms whether we belong to a militia or not.

    They will twist and distort everything as they continue to comment. Freedom and liberty are concepts that they don't understand. They want a king to tell them what they can or cannot do.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:54 a.m.

    Wish the DN would print my letters twice. I guess I'm not conservative enough.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    Extra slow news day I reckon --

    The DN published this exact same letter from Elsie Nay - just YESTERDAY titled:

    "Letter: Need more instruction about gun safety, not fewer firearms"

    Just change the title, Cut-and-paste and re-print.


  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    How is it different to threaten a civil war while actually buying record numbers of military tactical weapons and the Taliban overseas that we arrest and throw in prison for life for having in their possession the same guns?

    You get a pass because of your interpretation of the 2nd amendment? I don't think so.

    The NRA is simply stoking fear so they can sell more guns.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    Following the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Wayne LaPierre stated that the Federal law enforcement agents killed in the bombing were, “jack-booted thugs who got was coming to them.”

    President George H.W. Bush, who was a gun owner and life member of the NRA resigned with the following statement: ““…. Al Whicler, who served on my Secret Service detail when I was Vice President and President, was killed in Oklahoma City. He was no Nazi. He was a kind man, a loving parent, a man dedicated to serving his country and serve it well he did.

    "I am a gun owner and an avid hunter. Over the years I have agreed with most of the NRA’s objectives, particularly your educational and training efforts and your fundamental stance in favor of owning guns.

    "However, your broadside against federal agents deeply offends my own sense of decency and honor and it offends my concept of service to country. It indirectly slandered a wide array of government law enforcement officials who are out there, day and night, laying their lives on the line for all of us…”

  • Beverly Eden, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:38 a.m.

    Elsie: The NRA has created an image of a criminal class in the United States. This is a fallacy that helps create guns sales and leaves a false impression of the facts. There is no armed criminal class lurking around your home or Brigham City. Most murders occur in the home and are committed by other family members. Most murders are domestic violence. Another point to consider: Over 90% of the women sexually assaulted in the United States know the name of the rapist before the assault occurred. Stranger to stranger crime happens very seldom in the United States. Buying a gun to protect yourself from something that "statistically" doesn't exist is a mistake. Most gun deaths occur in the home and are accidental or suicides. By increasing guns in the home, you make the lethal weapon available for accidents, drunk husbands, teenagers suicides, etc. etc. Please think this through. Ask the Brigham City police department - when was the last time a stranger murdered another person they didn't know - in Brigham City. Don't let unfound fear influence your thinking.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:21 a.m.

    Elsie - congrats on getting your pro-NRA at any cost letters published two days in a row! What we need is MORE GUNS! We need our legislative session to be all about GUNS! We need to discuss GUNS more and with a more fevered pitch! Nothing is more important than GUNS!