Good letter. For many years the NRA has been the major gun safety educational
force in America. When law-abiding Americans are able to keep and bear arms,
our society is safer. Gun control erodes that safety.
Re:One old manReread my post paying attention to the BOLDED words.
Those are the facts you misrepresented.Re:Hutterite"We
need more organisations like the NRA to teach gun safety. But they've had
the opportunity for years and haven't done so,"So...you
don't know much about the NRA do you?Re:Beverly"His statements and conduct, after the Sandy Hook school shooting were
also insensitive, and he fully and the NRA deserve the distain they are
receiving."What did he say or do after the Sandy Hook Shootings
that garners your disdain?If I recall, the NRA stayed out of the
conversations for over a week. Then they re-iterated their stand on the value
of gun possession. They offered a solution that is now being embraced by both
sides of the aisle. They said that we should look at the factors that
contribute to societal violence like the entertainment industry. I am not sure
which of those responses deserve disdain? I get that the NRA's response
did not feed into your narrative, but isn't that to be expected? Or do you just disdain anyone who does not think like you?
So the mantra from conservatives I keep hearing boils down to two points. First,
criminals aren't going to follow the laws anyways, so we shouldn't
have restrictions on guns. Second, instead of banning guns we need to educate
people about them.First, of course criminals aren't going to follow
the law, or they wouldn't be criminals. But you can make that argument for
any law on the books. If no one ever stole, murdered, assaulted or raped anyone
we wouldn't need any laws ever would we?Second, At the same time the
NRA types are saying they want more education, they are also supporting a law
that would allow concealed carry in Utah without a permit, ie: less education. I
would personally think that instead of making less education required if you
really believed what you were saying you would want to expand the classes for
CWP's, maybe even to include a proficiency portion of the class. I guess
i'm just a bit confused about your x2 standard.
RedShirt,".....why is it that liberals want to take away the
assault rifles rather than educating kids on how to handle them?"______________________________Assault rifles themselves are the
issue here.It's often in the aftermath of an event like Newtown
that gun enthusiasts pull out the safety training argument to demonstrate
concern, not to suggest that there aren't some who genuinely are
concerned.Or some other red herring argument such as raising the
issue of video games, movies, etc. as the real culprit in the tragedy. No red
herring arguments to shift the focus off of the one topic that the NRA wants
kept off the table. Not this time.
To "Irony Guy" if what I say is wrong, then why is it that liberals want
to take away the assault rifles rather than educating kids on how to handle
them?Lets see what the leading liberals want to do. So far they
want to ban certain guns, and have offered nothing with respect to education
The NRA Executive Director, Wayne LaPierre, says things and then apologizes. If
he didn't think them in the first place, he wouldn't need to apologize
or state that his comments were, "taken out of context." As a former
federal agent, I know he painted all of us as "Jack-booted thugs." How
do you form a statement like that, without giving it some heart felt thought.
Wayne LaPierre, will say and do almost anything to keep gun sales flowing. His
statements and conduct, after the Sandy Hook school shooting were also
insensitive, and he fully and the NRA deserve the distain they are receiving.
Wow, RedShirt. You figured us all out with on broad-brush statement. I grew up
in the home of a liberal college professor. He sent all of his kids to
Hunter's Safety courses and we hunted with actual rifles and pistols my
entire life. I grew up to be in the military where I handled weapons as a
condition of employment. I don't say that lightly as I was an Aircraft
Armament Systems Specialist in the Air Force and an Armorer, and small arms
instructor in the Army. I can almost guarantee you that I know more about
firearms safety, both small arms and aircraft armament than you ever dreamed of
knowing. No, I don't think kids should experiment with risky sexual
behavior, nor do I believe AR-15s have any place in civilized society outside of
the military. I don't have a problem with background checks for gun
ownership. I prefer to have loaded weapons in the hands of people withe the
mental capacity to handle them.
RedShirt, I'm a liberal and I would love to see kids get a proper education
in handling firearms. My daughter was trained at age 8, and I've been
trained myself. But I have never lost a healthy fear of guns. Anyone who
doesn't fear guns is very dangerous. Your premise about liberals is dead
I came to this realization last night. The liberals are all about educating
kids so that they can engage in risky sexual behavior more safely. Why are they
opposed to educating those same kids about guns so that they can safely handle a
gun?Why do liberals want to prevent our kids from receiving a proper
education so that they can exist in society and handle firearms safely? Do
liberals want to have to train secret service personnel to overcome their fear
of guns before they can protect the President and his children?
Grundle, please explain how I distorted any facts? LaPierre said what he said
and Bush said what he said.LaPierre's "apology" was
much too little much too late.
"Criminals will have and use guns no matter what the law is."______________________________Is that lame argument for lax gun
laws the best or the only one your side is able to come up with?A
word about the National Rifle Association. Don't buy into the sordid myth
that the NRA represents gun owners in America. The NRA lobbies for the lucrative
gun manufacturing industry whose overriding interest is the pursuit of profit,
not what's in the interest of the public safety of over 300 million
Americans. The NRA extolling of the Bill of Rights is for the convenient cover
it provides. Responsible gun owners don't need a fig leaf.
There should be law against criminal activity. Especially crimes where guns are
We need more organisations like the NRA to teach gun safety. But they've
had the opportunity for years and haven't done so, and the current changes
don't prevent them from doing so now or in the future. Since that's
not working, let's try some real changes, shall we?
20 children were murdered in an elementary school last month.This
week, a 15 year old boy killed his family with their own gun.We need
to do something different.More Americans have died from domestic gun
violence than in all the wars after 1968...combined.
Ask your police when was the last time a person in Brigham city was assaulted
too. Include those assaulted by animals other than humans. I am sure there are
many. There are many reasons to have a gun to protect yourself.Don't let those paranoid of guns fool you. Guns can and do protect
many people.But do know how to use them, and do keep them away from
children and the mentally unstable.
Re: One Old ManYour selective editing of the facts continue to
discredit you.Shortly BEFORE the Oklahoma City bombing, LaPierre
wrote a fundraising letter describing federal agents as "jack-booted
government thugs" who wear "Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper
uniforms". FORMER president George H. W. Bush was so outraged by the letter
that he resigned his NRA life membership. In response to GROWING CRITICISM,
LaPierre APOLOGIZED, saying he didn't intend to "paint all federal
law-enforcement officials with the same broad brush".Context?
Fundraising efforts aimed at gun advocates that believe (as I do) that gun
ownership's primary purpose is to prevent government tyranny. Still too
extreme for my tastes.Also, The Bush family was preparing for
another run at the presidency (successfully I might add) and so this could be
interpreted as political distancing.Stupid thing to say...Yes.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a LaPierre fan, but you twisted the facts to
strengthen your point. Interestingly, the heavily criticized
statement that we ought to have armed guards in our schools by LaPierre is being
embraced by both sides of the aisle to some degree.
Since it's printed twice now -- I thought I'd have a little fun with
it today..."President Obama's plan to restrict drugs is a
tragic mistake. Criminals will have and use drugs no matter what the law is. It
should be OK for law-abiding citizens to have and use drugs.We need
more organizations like the InterNational Drug Cartels to promote and teach drug
safety."----"President Obama's plan to
restrict same-sex marriage is a tragic mistake. Homo-sexuals will have sex no
matter what the law is. It should be OK for law-abiding citizens to have
same-sex marriages.We need more organizations like the National
Gay-Lesbian Associations to promote and teach safe sex."----"President Obama's plan to restrict Government spending is a
tragic mistake. Corporations will have lucritive Government Contracts and use
that money to buy Government influence no matter what the law is. It should be
OK for law-abiding Corporations to have and use Tax-payers money.We
need more Corporations like G.E. to promote and teach bilking the citizens of
taxes, getting $Billion subsidezes and then not pay a dime in taxes in
If we close the gun show loophole decent people can still get their guns (just
have to have a background check) and criminals will not be able to so easily get
It's only 10:30 a.m., but there are already six posters who belittle the
Constitution by mocking a citizen's right to keep and bear arms. They
think nothing of using their right to speak; but, they demand that no one except
them has the right to decide what other rights, guaranteed or not, that citizens
of America should have.That's exactly why we have a
Constitution to keep liberals and their ilk from taking away our rights.
That's exactly why 75% of the States have to ratify any new amendment to
the Constitution.We have the guaranteed right to keep and bear arms.
The liberals demand that they have the right to destroy that right by
Presidential action or by an act of Congress. It just shows that they
haven't read the Constitution and that they despise the 2008 and 2010 Court
rulings that specifically stated we have the right to keep and bear arms whether
we belong to a militia or not.They will twist and distort everything
as they continue to comment. Freedom and liberty are concepts that they
don't understand. They want a king to tell them what they can or cannot
Wish the DN would print my letters twice. I guess I'm not conservative
Extra slow news day I reckon -- The DN published this exact same
letter from Elsie Nay - just YESTERDAY titled:"Letter: Need more
instruction about gun safety, not fewer firearms"Just change the
title, Cut-and-paste and re-print.Yawn....Zzzzzz
How is it different to threaten a civil war while actually buying record numbers
of military tactical weapons and the Taliban overseas that we arrest and throw
in prison for life for having in their possession the same guns?You
get a pass because of your interpretation of the 2nd amendment? I don't
think so.The NRA is simply stoking fear so they can sell more guns.
Following the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Wayne LaPierre
stated that the Federal law enforcement agents killed in the bombing were,
“jack-booted thugs who got was coming to them.”President
George H.W. Bush, who was a gun owner and life member of the NRA resigned with
the following statement: ““…. Al Whicler, who served on my
Secret Service detail when I was Vice President and President, was killed in
Oklahoma City. He was no Nazi. He was a kind man, a loving parent, a man
dedicated to serving his country and serve it well he did."I am
a gun owner and an avid hunter. Over the years I have agreed with most of the
NRA’s objectives, particularly your educational and training efforts and
your fundamental stance in favor of owning guns."However, your
broadside against federal agents deeply offends my own sense of decency and
honor and it offends my concept of service to country. It indirectly slandered a
wide array of government law enforcement officials who are out there, day and
night, laying their lives on the line for all of us…”
Elsie: The NRA has created an image of a criminal class in the United States.
This is a fallacy that helps create guns sales and leaves a false impression of
the facts. There is no armed criminal class lurking around your home or Brigham
City. Most murders occur in the home and are committed by other family members.
Most murders are domestic violence. Another point to consider: Over 90% of the
women sexually assaulted in the United States know the name of the rapist before
the assault occurred. Stranger to stranger crime happens very seldom in the
United States. Buying a gun to protect yourself from something that
"statistically" doesn't exist is a mistake. Most gun deaths occur
in the home and are accidental or suicides. By increasing guns in the home, you
make the lethal weapon available for accidents, drunk husbands, teenagers
suicides, etc. etc. Please think this through. Ask the Brigham City police
department - when was the last time a stranger murdered another person they
didn't know - in Brigham City. Don't let unfound fear influence your
Elsie - congrats on getting your pro-NRA at any cost letters published two days
in a row! What we need is MORE GUNS! We need our legislative session to be all
about GUNS! We need to discuss GUNS more and with a more fevered pitch!
Nothing is more important than GUNS!