Learn from Chicago policy

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  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Jan. 5, 2013 1:59 p.m.

    Freeman11 & UT Brit,

    Interesting perspectives from both, thank you. I have to agree with UT Brit, though, murder trumps assault. I would say that a country with more assaults but fewer homocides is a safer country, although it is a sad way to have to look at it.

  • UT Brit London, England
    Jan. 5, 2013 3:16 a.m.


    Problem is when definitions of violent crimes differ between countries.

    A verbal threat in the UK no matter how flippant is classed as assault and would be in the violent crime stats. The vast majority of violent crime in the UK does not end up with actual physical assault on a person.

    One stat you cant misunderstand though is murder rates. You are 4 times more likely to be killed in the US than the UK.

  • Freeman11 Butte, MT
    Jan. 4, 2013 6:39 p.m.

    Emajor,While you are correct that many European have strict gun control and lower homicide rates that doesn't mean they are less violent.For example;England has aprox.3 per 100,000 compared to our rate of 32 per 100,000 gun homicides.However their overall rate of violent crimes is 2034 per 100,000 to our 466 per 100,000.The most violent countries are England and Australia with 26% and 30%(The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland)of their citizens being victimized by violent crime.America didn't even make the top 10 on that list.Coincidentally both England and Australia both have strict gun control and we don't.Something to think about anyway.I agree that something needs to be done but don't think gun control is the answer.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Jan. 4, 2013 5:45 p.m.

    Legal drugs?

    Okay, as long as those who use them pay for all the consequences they inflict on society with their drug use.

    But alas, they can't. Drug users use all they have to get more drugs. That is why drugs are illegal, too huge a toll on society.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    Jan. 4, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    Mountain Man: the only logic that makes sense is to keep gun ownership legal and to legalize drugs. Both liberals and conservatives have it wrong.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 4, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    One old man: How often have we heard from liberals that we should legalize drugs? Legalize drugs but make owning guns illegal! Liberal logic! LOL

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 4, 2013 3:01 p.m.

    So, MM, are you advocating legalizing crack cocaine and meth?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 4, 2013 11:04 a.m.

    Wait a minute! You mean laws against selling and using crack cocaine and meth do not stop some people from selling and using? Then why do liberal think more gun laws will keep bad guys from using them?

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Jan. 4, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    We lack a controlled study on gun restrictions, and will never get one because it would violate the constitution.

    So we have to look at the less than "control group" evidence we have. Tossing the data from Chicago, or any other place, just because it doesn't support your point of view, makes the data less reliable.

    It is just cherry picking. And with the current climate, no one is willing to look at this holistically.

    Lets deal better with our mentally ill. The mother of Lanza tried to get help for him, but couldn't. I am not for carelessly locking people up, but perhaps we need to adjust our commitment requirements, a little bit.

    With all these shooters, there are those who knew them, coming forward and saying they could see it coming. That is where we need preventive measures and intervention.

  • KDave Moab, UT
    Jan. 4, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    The murder rate in Chicago can be blamed on drug wars. Almost all the deaths are gang members. Obviously illegal guns are as available as illegal drugs.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Jan. 4, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Yet another argument that assumes causality when there is not enough information to do so. Chicago has strict gun control laws and high homocide rates, therefore gun control causes homocides. Well, the opposite of that are many European nations with strict gun control laws and very low homocide rates. Can we get some actual evidence and facts on this debate, or should we all just assume whatever we want and stick our heads in the sand?

    I'm just waiting for the "gun in my hand better than cop on phone" comments to roll in.