Freedom for sale

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  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 3:35 p.m.

    To "Truthseeker" corporations are not the only ones who hire lobbyists.

    Cities hire lobbyists. Counties hire lobbyists. States hire lobbyists. Unions hire lobbyists. Churches hire lobbyists. Citizen groups hire lobbyists. Environmental groups hire lobbyists. Global Warming Scientists hire lobbyists. Foreign Governments hire lobbyists.

    You realize that some of the biggest pieces of legislation that Obama has approved were written by Liberal think tanks that were bought and paid for by liberal groups? Why do you only address corporations that hire lobbyists? If legislation written by corporate lobbyists is so bad, why is federal legislation written by cities, counties, states, unions, churches, citizen groups, environmental groups, global warming scientists, or foreign governments good? Your argument only shows that you want to favor liberal groups over conservative groups in access to legislators.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    Government is the ultimate business operation. The products that it has for sale are willingly or sometimes unwillingly bought by the people it governs. It is a monopoly. It allows other sub-governments, businesses and groups to exist, but only under the control of it’s government functions.

    All of the groups that govern us, government itself, businesses, churches, unions etc. are selling a product for us to buy. Nothing is free.

    Freedom: Having the time, ability and the permission to do the things that you want to do.

    Every day we buy and sell the things that give us freedom. Often we sell some freedom for other freedom we want. Like when we sell our time and effort to an employer for money to buy the ability to eat and have the good life.

    Government is the main provider of the permission. In it’s role of governing it takes from some to give to others. That which it takes is freedom and/or money which it in turn sells to it’s citizens.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    "No Maverick, what is silly is the left blaming corporations for everything they don't like while giving up their future to government intrusion."

    Oh, like the government intrusion of defining marriage, calling rape not real rape unless the woman becomes pregnant, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security Agency, 2 wars, calling Global Warming a hoax, desiring that Intelligence Design replace real science like Evolution, bailouts to banks, subsidies to Big Oil, and the doubling of our defense budget in the past 2 years?

    That government intrusion?

    I would certainly agree with you there. Why can't the GOP just stay out of our lives?

  • Rudi Starnberg Germantown, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    Guess what neocons, we won and you lost. You are just upset that we get the spoils and you don't. Well, I for one feel no guilt whatsoever.

    I chose the winning party, and I expect that party to pay me back. I don't care if it's borrowed money, the corporations should be taxed more to pay for it. I am a citizen and corporations are not. There is nothing wrong with them being taxed to pay for my benefits.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 1, 2013 11:50 a.m.

    What I find interesting is that each side assumes it is the other that is buying our freedoms. Perhaps the problem is the market, and not the specific sellers.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    All the corporations need is a fox news to lead people down their path.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    "If you don't like "evil" corporations, don't buy anything they produce!...I know liberals love to blame corporations"

    Well, corporations are the ones waging the War on Christmas by commercializing it to death, and happily encouraging & benefiting from all of the debt-driven personal spending that ironically keeps our economy ticking. And yes they do buy influence in government, you would have to be completely naive to believe otherwise.

    "Romney promised more jobs"

    Yeah, and he was lying. He promised 12 million new jobs over four years, which is what economists predicted the nation would produce regardless of who was president. Hey, look at me, I can promise the sun will rise every day of my presidency, I'm a miracle worker!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 1, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    No Maverick, what is silly is the left blaming corporations for everything they don't like while giving up their future to government intrusion.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 1, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    "In the 1990s, lobbying was largely reactive. Corporations had to fend off proposals that would have restricted them or cost them money. But with pro-business officials running the executive and legislative branches, companies are also hiring well-placed lobbyists to go on the offensive and find ways to profit from the many tax breaks, loosened regulations and other government goodies that increasingly are available.

    The Republicans in charge aren't just pro-business, they are also pro-government. Federal outlays increased nearly 30 percent from 2000 to 2004, to $2.29 trillion. And despite the budget deficit, federal spending is set to increase again this year, especially in programs that are prime lobbying targets such as defense, homeland security and medical coverage."
    ("The Road to Riches is Called K Street," The Washington Post)

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 1, 2013 9:39 a.m.

    Corporations hire lobbyists.

    Lobbyists are frequently involved in writing lesgislation.

    "The number of registered lobbyists in Washington has more than doubled since 2000 to more than 34,750 while the amount that lobbyists charge their new clients has increased by as much as 100 percent. Only a few other businesses have enjoyed greater prosperity in an otherwise fitful economy.

    The lobbying boom has been caused by three factors, experts say: rapid growth in government, Republican control of both the White House and Congress, and wide acceptance among corporations that they need to hire professional lobbyists to secure their share of federal benefits.

    Lobbying firms can't hire people fast enough. Starting salaries have risen to about $300,000 a year for the best-connected aides eager to "move downtown" from Capitol Hill or the Bush administration. Once considered a distasteful post-government vocation, big-bucks lobbying is luring nearly half of all lawmakers who return to the private sector when they leave Congress, according to a forthcoming study by Public Citizen's Congress Watch."
    (2005 The Washington Post)

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    Forget it Joe. They can't respond with facts because they don't have any available.

    Perhaps if some of them spit orange juice on their computer screens, they might be able to see the fact that have been covered by all the scum that's slimed the screens by accessing too many right wing hate sites.

    In the meantime, folks like you and Hutt and LDSLiberal and Furry and Mike down in Cedar City and others who are actually capable of rational thought just have to keep trying.

    Let's have great new year and never waiver from seeking and speaking the truth.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 9:31 a.m.

    "Corporations? If you don't like "evil" corporations, don't buy anything they produce!"

    What a silly comment.

    You don't have to "hate" corporations to see how bad it is for our Democracy to allow completely unregulated and limitless monies from corporations to go to politicians in the form of campaign contributions.

    Super-Pacs might be the worst enemy to our freedom and Constitution than anything else.

    This shouldn't be hard for non-trolls (which certainly isn't you) to understand that corporations certainly aren't "people" and the Citizens United ruling is horrible for nearly everyone in this country.

    We don't need to go to the other side of the world to find threats to our country and freedom as long as corporations can buy off government without any transparency or accountability.

    So while I, like all Americans, will continue to purchase what corporations provide, I don't feel like they are people and most certainly shouldn't be able to "donate" to campaigns.

    How is the ordinary Joe Sixpack supposed to compete with that? Why should politicians care what we think when they're making millions off corporate donations?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Jan. 1, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    "but that leaves out 47% of Americans who pay NO federal income taxes, and strangely, they always vote for Democrats!"

    Typical Republican response. The 47% all get free stuff and will always vote Democratic.

    Well, I will respond with specifics. It would be appreciated if you would also.

    Of the 47% about

    About 10% are retired or elderly
    about 2/3 (66%) pay payroll tax (in excess of 10%) but admittedly no income tax
    (Keep in mind that Mr Romney only paid 13%)
    Then there is a really small portion who are Really Really Rich (Romney?) who pay no income tax.
    And add in some Military in that number also.

    So, that leaves let say 20% of the 47% who are just too poor.

    "Of the 10 states with the highest percentage of people who pay no income tax, nine are red states."

    Please notice that I have used facts. A response with facts would be appreciated.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 1, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    Yes, Furry1993. And as we have all observed from you, anyone who doesn't agree with you is a " radical far right extremist". Strangely ironic isn't it?

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 8:23 a.m.

    Paul Sharp just "penned" an excellent criticism of the Republicans and the radical far right extremists.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 1, 2013 8:13 a.m.

    @ Joe Blow, I almost spit my orange juice on my computer screen when I read your comment about how you think corporation have the "resources to effect elections". And what corporate resources won this last election? The only resources that won this last election were government freebies; more food stamps, more free healthcare, more unemployment benefits more entitlements, all with BORROWED money! Romney promised more jobs, Obama promised more free stuff. Now we get to see how Obama is going to pay for all the free stuff don't we? More taxes on the "rich"? Buys us less than 10 days, what about the other 355 days? Obama is chasing corporation out of this country in droves and leaving with them are millions of jobs. I would love for taxpayers to win elections, but that leaves out 47% of Americans who pay NO federal income taxes, and strangely, they always vote for Democrats! Actual taxpayers, not so much!

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Jan. 1, 2013 7:48 a.m.


    Anyone can "bribe" congress. However, corporations have far more money to do it with than the average Joe.

    Same with unions. Really rich people to a lesser extent.

    Certainly both parties get "bribed" and probably at similar frequencies.

    I am strongly in favor of limiting that, regardless of who is giving and who is getting.
    I just think that it leads to better decision making.

    And my proof? I think corporations are way smarter than our government.
    Corporations, for the most part, dont allow that practice.

    Are you an electronics corporation? Try taking a Walmart electronics buyer on an all-expense paid golfing trip to Scotland. You may do it, but if Walmart finds out, you may both be looking for jobs.

    I can assure you that Hutterite is not anti corporation. It's just that have to resources to affect elections.

    Let me guess. You despise George Soros but think the Koch brothers are honorable people?

    Me? I would love it if neither one had any influence. The taxpayer would win. America would win.

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 7:39 a.m.

    This letter is absolutely correct. The left wing government has sold this Country for votes.

    The left has used entitlement programs to pay the lazy and slothful for sitting around and doing nothing. Of course, the left demands votes in return. Beyond the fact that this bribery is unethical, it is unsustainable.

    There is no money for runaway entitlement spending, so the left has borrowed the money from other countries. Hopefully the general public will study up on Chinese and Arabic for the time when these other countries demand payment on the debt.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 1, 2013 7:27 a.m.

    Hutterite: Corporations? If you don't like "evil" corporations, don't buy anything they produce! Get rid of your car, shut off your electricity, produce all your own food, invent, manufacture all your own medicines, produce you own clothing. From now on those "evil" corporations are out of your life for good, right? I know liberals love to blame corporations for all the world's evils but corporations actually have no power over your life. They can not pass laws that you must obey, they can't tax you, they can't confiscate your property, they can't force you to buy anything. Try that with the government and you will be in jail. No charge for this lesson in reality!

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Jan. 1, 2013 7:19 a.m.

    Absolutely Correct.

    Freedom is for sale. And it can be purchased much easier now that Citizens United made it even MORE legal.

    I am still confused as to why it is so difficult to get anyone on the right to speak against the Citizens United ruling. How can anyone feel that MORE money in politics will get us better legislation. Can someone explain that?

    How is it that these guys will spend millions of their own money to get a job paying under $200K.
    How is it that these guys typically leave office with MUCH more money than they went in with?

    If there were no perks, and campaign expenditures were limited, our politicians would make better decisions for the right reasons.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Jan. 1, 2013 6:35 a.m.

    This letter is a blatant assertion without any supporting facts. What is the authors intent? Reading between the lines the author sounds like a unhappy extreme right winger unwilling or unable to factually support his lamentation. In this letter, the code word for the like minded initiated are, "constitution and freedom", threats to which are meat for those that want to encourge national fears. Just what is the agenda here? Are you a "watchman on a tower" or are you Chicken Little warning us that the sky is falling?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 1:33 a.m.

    Only the corporations that are citizens are the 'buyers' in the scenario presented. Real humans can't compete.