'Cliff': More insight needed

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  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 4:07 p.m.

    @The Real Maverick:
    "No longer can we expect good governing from those who don't believe in science or rational thinking."

    We need a guy who believes in amnesty for illegals, homosexual marriage, and drug usage. Yikes, that's what we got!

    "We need to get rid of the folks who believe that global warming is a hoax..."

    Global warming is not a hoax. And global cooling in much of Utah this winter is real, also. Brrr!

    What's in question is blaming humans. Especially when the earth has had warming and cooling many times over the last eons when humans hadn't yet emerged from the sea.

    "...god tells them to invade the Middle-East."

    Well, someone's god directed the World Trade Center disaster.

    "...don't believe in evolution."

    I can believe Democrats originated from lower forms.

    "...who believe that the ACA has death panels."

    You're talking about Obama now... who tells the elderly to just 'go home and take a pain pill.'

    "...and that organizations like the Dept of Edu and EPA are Communist conspiracies."

    Education is a state, not a federal issue. EPA wants to ensure we must always get our energy from Mideast Muslims.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    In 2009 many families with incomes of over $48K qualified for the earned income tax credit for low income folks, not middle income folks.

    In 2012 families with 3 kids earning $25K are considered to be in poverty by federal guidelines.

    So when someone suggests that those making 25-60K are in the middle class, are they saying a large chunk of the poverty class and lower class is the middle class?

    Thank you Obama, for restoring a middle class. But how does calling the lower class, middle class actually help them? It obviously doesn't, except to make them feel better about themselves. I suspect they are inflating the class guidelines so they can raise taxes on more people. Look out, they are coming for yours next.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 1:31 p.m.

    "Only the most extreme of the leftists would deny the irrefutable fact that if we want a successful country in the modern world, we must be governed by educated, successful leaders."

    Excellent commentary from JCS! Couldn't agree with him more.

    Which is exactly why we need to get rid of folks like Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum, and Jason Chaffetz.

    No longer can we expect good governing from those who don't believe in science or rational thinking. We need to get rid of the folks who believe that global warming is a hoax, god tells them to invade the Middle-East, don't believe in evolution, rape isn't real rape if one doesn't become pregnant, who believe that the ACA has death panels, and that organizations like the Dept of Edu and EPA are Communist conspiracies.

    We need to let science and rational thinking govern, not gut instincts or tele-evangelists govern.

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    @Rudi Starnberg:
    "Well, get used to losing because it ain't gonna change!"

    Well, you might be right.

    What Republicans fail to realize is, the uninformed voter (which are mostly Democrats) will vote for the guy that promises to give them the most. Obama and his handlers did brilliantly on that score. Democrats promised give-aways while Republicans insist on hard work for success.

    Furthermore, Democrat Obama won with his appeal to specific groups such as: (1) Blacks, because he and his wife are part of that group, (2) Hispanics, with the 2-year amnesty program, (3) homosexuals, with his timely announcing favoring of same sex marriage, and (4) drugees, which Obama confessed using in his younger days.

    Republicans may never win another presidential election because they favor hard work to government largess, and are against amnesty for illegals, same sex marriage, and drug usage.

    If a candidate wants to win he's gotta find out what voters wants and then promise to give it to them. This will never happen becasue Republicans are too principled.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    "Ninety percent of Americans are in the "'middle class,' meaning they earn between $25,000 to $60,000 per year as gross income." Hello? Where did you come up with the $60,000 upper limit on the middle class? That's ridiculous. So if I were earning $61,000 per year, I'd be in the upper class? Hilarious. Some people (mostly Republicans) include $250,000 in the middle class. That's why we can't tax these poor souls.

  • Rudi Starnberg Germantown, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    Old man is right on, but it bothers me when fellow liberals apologize. We win! There is nothing to apologize for.

    To the victor goes the spoils. Why shouldn't we take advantage and have the government give us what we deserve? If I can get paid for doing nothing more than voting as JCS claims, why shouldn't I. He and the neocons are just poor losers. Well, get used to losing because it ain't gonna change!

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 1, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    Years ago I saw a program on PBS that took a wide swath of regular America. Small business folks, teachers, police, lawyers, regular workers, the wide gamut and clearly very varied in their political ideology.

    There were about a dozen of them or so all around a long table. The moderator tossed out a host of hot button issues and the group worked on solutions.

    The amazing thing was how they were able to bring many of the issues to a resolution. Others were only partially resolved, but progress was made. One or two they put aside as too intractable. At least, this is what I recall.

    I was amazed that normal folks (with no political agenda) could do what our experienced politicians could not. I would suppose the difference to be even more stark today.

    We need more "regular joes" in politics. And, I think term limits would be helpful.

    BTW, I would note that 90% of us making between 25K and 60K is incorrect. The distribution is much wider.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    An excellent letter. But I would say that organizations such as the AARP do a good job lobbying for low wage earners such as those described in this letter. And if those jobs were able to unionize and collectively bargain, their lives would substantially improve, and the economy would flourish.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    This is an excellent letter with some great ideas.

    If anyone will stop to actually think about how we got into this mess, they would find it to be impossible to "deny the irrefutable fact" that it was CEO mentality in Congress that caused it. Yes, JCS, we do need to be governed by "educated, successful leaders." We have a flock of CEO quality millionaires in Congress now and where has it led us?

    Perhaps instead of CEO leadership which is seen in such examples as 300% bonuses while asking workers to accept pay cuts, or offshore tax havens for their money, or outsourcing American jobs, we REALLY need to find some common sense in Congress.

    There are many educated and successful -- and above all HONEST -- farmers, beauticians, garbage collectors, policemen, dock workers, teachers, firefighters, truck drivers, housewives, and others whose "success" may not be measured in dollars who could bring that common sense to the Capitol.

    Only the most extreme rightists would pretend that we have not been seriously harmed by people whose wealth allows them to purchase legislative offices.

    The right has forgotten that it is not wealth that's really important. But honest good sense might be.

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    This letter is pure nonsense. Its plan would result in economic disaster.

    Why does the left wing continue to demonise wealth and success? Clearly, the left has forgotten, or chosen to ignore, the fact that America achieved historic success because its people worked hard to achieve wealth.

    Let us be honest here. Who would be better at managing the finances of a great nation: a highly educated CEO of a large successful business or an uneducated high school dropout who never advanced beyond working at the local McDonalds.? Only the most extreme of the leftists would deny the irrefutable fact that if we want a successful country in the modern world, we must be governed by educated, successful leaders.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 1, 2013 1:29 a.m.

    That dairy farmer is getting a huge government subsidy.