A violent society

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  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 29, 2012 11:02 a.m.

    Sorry for all the typos.... couldn't find my glasses and, well, you see the results.

    @mountainman.... I just want to clarify. I don't disagree necessarily with the points you are making. I am conservative - very much so - on certain issues, and less so on others. The issue I have with the conservative side is the huge amount of false and misleading information being spewed by the right. The right doesn't need to present misleading information to make their point... often the point is quit valid. What diminishes the point is when it is laced with false and misleading information. It completely undermines the message and messenger... and the point I think here is Mountainman was just repeating what he had been told. Not intentional fabrication, but trusting others who have no problem making up information.

    Those crime numbers are inexcusable.... period. The added commentary, which is totally false, unfortunately discredits what could have been a strong statement. People should fact check themselves information before they pass it on as gospel, even if it comes from what should be a reliable source.

    So Mountainman.... I am not challenging your personal integrity.... just the source of your information.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 29, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    The letter writer cites the new Quinton Tarentino movie as an example of why we have such violence..short memory sir. My wife and I just watched Clint Eastwoods "High Plains Drifter" from 1973. It contained well over a dozen murders where someone was shot in the back at close range. It contained two lengthy death scenes by whipping, one death by hanging..and the best of all two..yes two rapes...called out as rapes..but luckily the woman couldn't get pregnant because in both cases they wound up reallly liking the rape so it wasn't legitimate.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 28, 2012 11:00 p.m.

    @mountainma... interesting numbers.... but totally falsely represented... you claims to highest ever. For example, lets loot at Detroit. You claim that in 2010 they had 310 murders.. which is correct. What is plainly inaccurate that this is the highest on record, which it is not even close to. In 1974, Detroit had 714 murders. In 1991 Detroit had 615 murders. Now in most camps, 714 is a much bigger number than 310. So is 615. Most of the claims you make to being the highest or records, completely false.

    You go on to claim ":Not in Oakland, Ca.; 90 murders in 2010, most in recorded history."

    This would be a true statement if recorded history started in 2008, but alas, for the rest of the world who looks beyond 2008 all the way back to 2007, Oakland California had 120 murders.

    All the murder numbers you state are out of control, and need to be addressed.... these indeed are some of the countries most violent places. But to make false claims in your argument really discredits everything else. False claims don't further the cause. I like guns, I have guns, but don't see reasonable safety regulations as a constitutional crises.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 28, 2012 4:52 p.m.

    Good point mountainman.

    So in Europe and the rest of the world homicides are down (except wherever we are such as Afghanistan and Iraq)

    So why do we have such high murder rates even though we have twice as many safety inspiring guns as anyone else?

    Because we have twice as many guns per capita as any other country. 14 times as many guns as Japan, 3 times as many as Canada and 8 times as many as Argentina.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 28, 2012 4:08 p.m.

    "Let's have the Dems kick the can down the road.They have perfected the art of can kicking when it comes to our nation debt, entitlement reform and the fiscal cliff so I'm certain they can do it on gun control."


    We don't have a national debt problem because of "entitlements."

    We have a debt problem because of ineffective tax cuts to the rich, 2 unfunded wars, ridiculous out of control defense spending, and a bank bailout signed by President George W. Bush.

    Want meaningful reform?

    Cut the wars RIGHT now. Done. No more wars until we can actually pay for them. No more foreign aid or nation building. Slash the defense budget in half. Raise taxes to what they were under Reagan. Break up the big banks so they actually must compete with each other.

    You'd be surprised how how the national debt would disappear without even touching entitlements.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2012 2:09 p.m.

    Real Maverick,
    Let's have the Dems kick the can down the road.They have perfected the art of can kicking when it comes to our nation debt, entitlement reform and the fiscal cliff so I'm certain they can do it on gun control.

  • I-am-I South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 28, 2012 12:36 p.m.

    Of the above mentioned cities...how many of them are in voting districts that tend to vote Democrat?...Just wondering.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 28, 2012 12:30 p.m.

    This letter summarized:

    "Lets not do anything in regards to gun control. Lets not regulate things, make waiting times longer, enhance background checks, training, or evaluations, or address semi-automatic weapons or their magazines. Lets merely continue to do what the GOP seems to do best... Which is: KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD and merely suggest vague ineffective Utopian idea generalities as solutions."

    Gee... Thanks.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Dec. 28, 2012 12:22 p.m.

    I'm so sick of hearing from all of these homegrown redcoats who have absolutley no idea that the gun ban that the government is proposing will trigger the 2nd civil war in America.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 28, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    Perhaps we should shutdown Newspapers, radio, TV, and the InterNet.

    200 years ago, hineous crimes were committed, and no one would EVER hear about it,
    even in the next village over.

    Today - I can read about a murder in small town in Russia, a rape in India, and a robbery in France,
    all without ever leaving my home office.

    Over all crimes is down,
    Over all awareness of it is Sky-high.

    It's all a matter of perception.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 28, 2012 9:39 a.m.

    @ Mountainman



    So why isn't crime everywhere increasing? Why did you cherry pick a few cities?

    If crime overall in America is decreasing then your point has no validity.

    Once again, cherry picking numbers doesn't exactly help you win in an intellectual argument. Better luck next time!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 28, 2012 8:14 a.m.

    Mukkake. Not in Chicago; more people murdered there in 2010 than were killed in Afghanistan, according to Pentagon sources.
    Not in Flint, Michigan; 53 murders in 2010, highest on record according to FBI sources.
    Not in Detroit, Michigan; 310 murders in 2010, highest on record.
    Not in St Louis, Mo.; 144 murders, highest on record.
    Not in New Haven, Conn; 22 murders; highest on record.
    Not in Memphis, Tn.; 89 murders; most in recorded history,
    Not in Oakland, Ca.; 90 murders in 2010, most in recorded history.
    Not in Little Rock, Arkansas; 25 murders in 2010, set a new record there.
    Not in Baltimore, Md; 233 murders in 2010. set a new record.
    Not in Rockford Ill.; 20 murders in 2010, highest on record.
    Not in Stockton, Ca.; 49 murders in 2010 highest on record.

    My point: Do you trust the numbers coming out of the White House?

  • Mukkake Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2012 7:53 a.m.

    Crime is down. America is safer than it has been in decades.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Dec. 28, 2012 7:23 a.m.

    Violence has always existed since Cain and Abel. I think most people go about there day in relative peace. We just hear about the few cases of unfortunate violence because it is rare. It is still tragic for anyone that is a victim of it and we need to fight it.