Too much government?

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  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 10:12 a.m.

    I feel sorry for you Mntman everyone in your community is stealing from you, the gubermant is stealing from you, from the sound of it your accountant is stealing from you and you get nothing and have gotten nothing from any taxes you pay.

    It's everybody else, isn't it?

  • Dektol Powell, OH
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:37 p.m.

    First, NO retirement pay for elected officials. They paid to get the job. If they want retirement pay they can get real jobs. Then - get rid of the BIA and its lousy welfare mentality for Native Americans. A five year program cutting all their benefits 20% a year til it it done and let them live like the rest of America. Billions wasted on BIA welfare projects that do little to help anyone but government workers.

    Turn off lights in government offices at night after 11:00, cut the parking lot lights, turn thermostats down in winter and up in summer - and cut most air conditioning as well.

    NO more radio and TV ads from government would save a lot. All Government forms in English - and make it the official language. Many of our ancestors came to American and were proud to learn the language and become real citizens. Helps all when there is one common language while still preserving their heritage and native languages.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:18 p.m.

    How come part of the mandate of Hill AFB is to create jobs (closing it would be 'disastrous' for the economy) but the mandate of school boards cannot be the same? Too much government means too much military first and foremost, since that's what government spends the most on.

  • Mick Murray, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:09 p.m.


    Don't hold your breath waiting for an insurance discount with Obamacare. Your health insurance will continue to rise. One of the big downfalls of Obama care is that it doesn't address the costs of insurance, only how many more people we can get on insurace. Your insurace will "necessarily skyrocket" in the next few years.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 19, 2012 4:37 p.m.

    Hayden, ID

    The fuel taxes, both federal and state are about $.55/ gal. 60 gals times 52 times a year times $.55/gal=$1716.00 That is more than my family budget for clothing each year. Not insignificant to me!
    Yes, I am TAXED TOO MUCH!


    You also can deduct mileage at well over 0.42+ cents per mile if it's work related.

    If you are hauling a heavy load 24/7,
    Might I also suggest driving a Toyota Prius in lieu of that Silverado just to move your behind around in?

    Again, sounds more like bad personal choices rather than a Government problem to me.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 4:10 p.m.

    Repubs claim government doesn't create jobs until there is talk of shutting down a military base of cutting military spending.
    Then we see the true nature of repubs.
    Speaking of their true nature, how does a so-called "christian" allow for massive military spending while wanting to cut programs for the poor and disabled?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 19, 2012 3:38 p.m.

    @ Kent. You suggested that I have too much house for my income. It may interest you to know that my property taxes have gone up every year I have lived here(over 20 years) because of levies that people here pass to increase property taxes, many of whom are not property owners themselves. So, what we have here are people finding yet another way to force others to pay for their schools, police, fire, library and local college without they themselves paying for any of it. Another round of entitlements?
    In regards to fuel taxes, I fill my vehicle usually 3 times each week and it takes about 20 gals each time. The fuel taxes, both federal and state are about $.55/ gal. 60 gals times 52 times a year times $.55/gal=$1716.00 That is more than my family budget for clothing each year. Not insignificant to me!
    Yes, I am TAXED TOO MUCH!

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 3:12 p.m.

    To "ECR" you may not like The Blaze, but the information that was gathered for that article is public information, and is true. Just because you don't like the source of the truth does not change the fact that for every 1.25 privatly employed person there is 1 person on government assistance or working for the government.

    The wicked take the truth to be hard was quite a prophetic statement in light of today's liberals that can't refute truth when presented.

    To "airnaut" do the math. Lagomorph claims that with the things he listed he pays 29% of his income in taxes. Now, add Medicare 2.9% tax, and SS of 4.9%. That puts Lagomorph at 36.8% (since we don't know his income we have to assume 4.9%). Now, if you include taxes paid on utilities like phone, gas, electricity, and local government fees, that can add in more. The total amount paid in taxes, even by Lagomorph is approaching 40%.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 3:12 p.m.

    Re: "Let's face it, we all like big government."

    No, we don't.

    Only liberals want big government. But, unfortunately, too many rubes out there go along with them, since they don't care one way or the other, and are easily manipulated by disingenuous liberal promises of "free" stuff.

    One good thing about the Obama regime -- it will soon force the rubes to the undeniable truth -- there's no such thing as "free" stuff, and there's no sugar daddy out there to tax for it but us.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 1:21 p.m.


    Sorry about your tax situation. If what you write is correct, either you own way too much property for your income, or your income is way too low for the amount of property you own. Same thing, of course. But if you're counting property tax that you pay for your business, that is a business expense and would reduce your income tax. I agree with Lagomorph. Get a new accountant.

    Also, thanks for mentioning the gasoline tax. I forgot that one. But for me that adds up to less than $300 per year, so again, negligible. My total taxes are 23 percent of AGI, at most. And I would have to more than quadruple my salary to be affected at all by Obama's proposed tax increases.

  • Jory payson, utah
    Dec. 19, 2012 1:19 p.m.

    Lagomorph and Airnaut

    MountainMan could lower some of his taxes. Depends how he has his business classified. Then if he goes and do the things that will lower his taxes you will call him a tax cheat so their is no way he can win. Guess what, he could make a lot more money than you two to make that much in state income taxes.

    I don't know why you two are arguing with him. Taxes are so fact dependent that you can't tell what he is paying is right or not. Besides his business is probably categorized different than yours (passive or not passive) that some deductions you get with your passive income (rental income) won't work with his. Learn the tax code before you comment on taxes.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 19, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    Redshirt - If you want to learn the truth stop reading The Blaze. Like everything Glen Beck does, The Blaze is all about putting money in his pocket. He will say any outrageous thing he can to provoke his listeners and exploit their loyalty just so he and his media empire can enjoy more profit. If you think the "liberal press" is in it for the money, just check the balance sheet of almost every major newspaper in America. Telling the truth often doesn't equate to financial success. Ah, but it usually equates to a good night's sleep.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 19, 2012 1:14 p.m.

    USS Enterprise, UT

    "Just including your SS taxes would take you over 30% to what you state, then adding in the Medicare and Medicaid taxes will take you close to 40%.

    12:41 p.m. Dec. 19, 2012


    Impossible Mr. RedShirt.

    Social Security is a set rate of 4.6% and is CAPPED at $110,100

    So it is infinity impossilbe to hit a 30% factoring in 4.6% SS tax,
    and that percetnage only goes DOWN the more you make.

    BTW -
    Mitt Romney paid the same amount on his $25 Million as I did on my $115,000.
    The difference is he made 217 TIMES mores than I did.

    How is that possibly fair and equalitable?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:41 p.m.

    We do have too much government. Read the article "‘Welfare Nation’: The Sad Truth" at The Blaze. When you have 1.25 private sector workers for every person that either gets welfare assistance or works for government, we are getting into a scary situation.

    How can we have a nation running where you have so many people dependant on those working in the private sector to support them?

    To "Lagomorph" what about your SS taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, and your other payroll deductions. Just including your SS taxes would take you over 30% to what you state, then adding in the Medicare and Medicaid taxes will take you close to 40%.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:31 p.m.


    I agree with airnaut. You aren't doing something right. I'm in a two income home with some rental income, solidly middle class, the usual deductions. We paid an effective rate of about 13% federal income tax (less than Mitt!). Throw in about 5% Utah state income tax and 6% sales tax, and about $4000 in property taxes on two houses (about 5% of income) and we're still well under 30% total taxes. You should find a better accountant.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    My property taxes alone are more than 11% of my income. Sales taxes here are 5.5% of almost everything I buy except fuel which has it's own federal and state taxes of about $.55/gal. Then there is my federal and state income taxes, which is about 18% for federal and about 10% for state not counting capitol gains on my business. So, yes, I actually nearly 50% of my income goes for taxes! And now, I am told I must pay more?
    What irritates me more than anything is my taxes keep increasing. I could sell my house and my business to avoid such high taxes but I worked all my life to establish both and it is not fair that I am punished for working hard and playing by the rules. Its very discouraging!

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:04 p.m.


    I'm not wealthy, but I am comfortably above the mean income in the U.S. Just for kicks, I added up my federal and state income taxes, Social Security and Medicare taxes. The total came to 18 percent of my AGI. And I don't have a mortgage, so no interest deduction. My kids are all over 17, so no child tax credit. In fact, I don't take advantage of any significant tax credits or deductions, other than the customary charitable donation deduction. So my rate is higher than most people's in my income bracket. Yes, I pay sales tax, which might add 2 percent, and my property tax is 1.9 percent. The excise taxes and license fees I pay are negligible. So my total tax burden amounts to about 22 percent of my adjusted gross income.

    If you're paying 50 percent, then you're undoubtedly among the 2 percent of the population that President Obama is trying to hit with his minuscule tax rate increase. I can see why you're upset.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 19, 2012 11:38 a.m.

    Hayden, ID


    You doing SOMETHING wrong mountaman.

    Try either using TurboTax,
    or hire a Tax Accountant.

    Mitt Romney makes WAY more than you do and yet only pays 14%.

    FYI -
    My families biggest single expense is Medical Insurance.
    and it magically keeps right on inflating at 15-20% per year no matter what the economy is doing.

    I'm soooo looking forward to Obamacare kicking in!

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 11:10 a.m.

    The phrase "too much government" is a strange one, isn't it? Government isn't a commodity that you can have too much of. It's the way the people get things done they want done. We want our children to be educated, so we pay for schools. We want ill-intentioned people to not steal our stuff, so we pay for cops and a justice system. We want poor people to not starve to death, so we pay for food stamps or housing subsidies. Where we run into problems is when we have things we want government to do, but we don't want to pay for it. That's precisely where we are now.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 19, 2012 11:00 a.m.

    Kent, Kent, Kent. You forgot to add all the OTHER taxes Americans like me pay! Federal income taxes, federal and state capitol gains taxes, federal and state excise taxes, federal and state fuel taxes, state income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, death taxes, license taxes and lets not forget inheritance taxes! All in all, I pay nearly 50% of my income paying only some of these taxes! Taxes is my largest item on my families budget and I see that I must now pay MORE taxes next year? When is it going to stop?
    So much for the GOP telling us were are taxed to much because WE ARE! If YOU want to pay more taxes, please feel free to send it in! For the rest of us, we are tying to survive! Suggestion; since the IRS has bankrupted more Americans that healthcare bills, let's have a government program to bailout taxpayers! That will help far more Americans than Obamacare (another tax) ever will!

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    Let's face it, we all like big government. Yes, we wish it could be more efficient, but when asked what we are willing to give up, we offer peanuts. Our problem is that we're just cheapskates. We want all that government offers, but we don't want to pay for it. We want our grandkids to pay for it.

    All you have to do is look at tax revenue as a percentage of GDP to see that we are far less willing than other developed nations to pay for what we want. Here are the stats:
    Austria 42.8%
    Belgium 43.2%
    Canada 31.1 %
    Denmark 48.2%
    Finland 43.1%
    France 41.9%
    Germany 37.0%
    Hungary 39.1%
    Iceland 41.4%
    Italy 43.5%
    Japan 28.1%
    South Korea 25.6%
    New Zealand 31.0%
    Norway 41.0%
    Poland 34.3%
    Portugal 35.2%
    Spain 30.7%
    Sweden 46.4%
    Switzerland 30.2%
    United Kingdom 34.3%
    United States 24.0%

    Only South Korea is in our league. And the GOP is trying to tell us we're taxed too much. Sorry, the argument doesn't hold water.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 19, 2012 9:35 a.m.

    I enjoy roads, power, water, sanitation, schools, police and fire protection, ect., ect.

    This is America --

    You are Free to move somewhere else,
    You are free to move to your mount retreat cabin in Montana,
    live off the land, and not pay a dime in taxes.

    Conservatives continully think and associate living "Free" as being some weird montetary issue.
    They really have know idea what Freedom is.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Dec. 19, 2012 9:27 a.m.

    Sorry, Mountainman, but this is just as much our country as it yours. Guess we'll have to learn to live together.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    The writer complains about having too much government and the costs of maintaining that government, then in the same breath hopes that Hill AFB will not be shut down. The last I checked, Hill was a federal government enterprise maintained by federal tax dollars. Or has it been fully privatized lately? (I'd have thought that would have made the news.) You can't have it both ways. You can't argue for reduced government scope and spending while preserving your pet government program. Either everything is fair game for budget cutting or nothing is.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    @ Roland Kayser. Then move to where taxes are higher and you win and will be very happy!

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:52 a.m.

    Total tax rates (federal, state, and local) are lower in the U.S. than in almost all other developed countries.