Immigration reform, President Barack Obama needs to act soon

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  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Dec. 21, 2012 8:59 a.m.

    So sad, to see so many readers still persuaded by the myths of immigration. Immigrants, documented or not, create more jobs than they take, use government services less than citizens, are more law-abiding, and strengthen our economy by allowing the free flow of labor to follow free trade principles of supply and demand. They also deserve the same rights common to all human beings and should not be treated as an under class. All claims to the contrary are fueled by our natural suspicion of foreigners, the ambition of politicians who find cheap rhetoric just too easy to resist, and by business interests who secretly enjoy having a subclass available for easy exploitation.

    Our revered immigrant forefathers had no limits on immigration and only wanted to regulate how the newly arrived might become naturalized.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 12:16 p.m.

    What about citizen Black poverty? Immigration (legal and illegal) for three decades has engorged the U.S. labor market, making it easy for employers to stop recruiting workers from poor Black communities, as well as other pockets of America's underclasses.

    Only half of working-age Black Americans with a high school degree have a job. Less than a third of those without a degree are working. I suppose that media outlets such as the DesNews either don't see this issue, or these Black Americans are too lazy, won't work for low wages, prefer welfare and unemployment to working, etc. This will cost the nation dearly in the not so distant future.

    The nation's immigration system (or lack thereof) has resulted in 26 million foreign-born workers holding U.S. jobs. At the same time, 20 million Americans who want a full-time job can't find one. No matter, employers and others want to continue flooding the U.S. labor market, depressing wages, increasing unemployment, which will continue the expansion of the working and non-working American underclass.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 18, 2012 9:55 a.m.

    We NEED a good guest worker program. Come, do the jobs we don't want to have, or we want cheap labor to do.... and then let them go home to their own country when done. We can have sensible limits, like only being here 2 of every 3 years. But have a reasonable legal way to come and work, open up businesses, and then we don't have an illegal issue.

    In our area construction has taken off again... and there is a huge shortage of manual or skilled labours. Let them come, do the jobs, and then go home... all legally... all taxed appropritely... and all documented so these people enjoy the full protection of the law.

    The current system of back door labour builders enjoy is just wrong. Too much under the table money. Lets get everyone paying taxes and contributing.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 1:46 a.m.

    Again disingenuously, the Deseret News discounts the law enforcement doctrine of Attrition through Earnest Enforcement and Meaningful Punishment -- whereby 12 million illegal aliens are aware of what could happen to them if caught and, rather than risk the same penalty, choose to self-deport, for the most part -- thus making it unnecessary to "round up" 12 millions persons. But this really is moot, since deporting 12 million illegal aliens actually COULD be done, contrary to false claims by some.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 1:42 a.m.

    "...without the proper documentation."

    Like many who refer to illegal aliens as "undocumented immigrants," the Deseret News quite conveniently sidesteps the actual reason they are lacking in documents (non-fraudulent documents, that is). It is because they willfully entered this nation illegally and perhaps illegally trafficked minor children across international and state lines, as well. THAT is why the typical illegal alien is "undocumented."

    "...12 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States, and a process for them to become properly documented is the only realistic course of action."

    Absolutely false. They COULD ALL return to their home countries, of their own volition.

    "But they won't," the pro-amnesty people say (and they may be right).

    But what does it indicate about these foreign nationals, if they won't do so?

    What it indicates, of course, is that they have a pure contempt for this nation, its sovereignty and its laws.

    It also indicates that they have insufficient incentive to return to their lawful countries.

    Obviously it is grossly unfair and immoral to give persons who scoff at this nation, its sovereignty and its laws special treatment when many million others around the world continue to respectfully wait in line.

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 10:46 p.m.

    It sounds like the Deseret News is supporting a devaluing of American Citizenship and disregard of citizen taxpayers. They want to cheapen citizenship by giving it to those who have come into this country illegally, taken American jobs, utilized our social services, stolen identities, and eroded the integrity of our neighborhoods.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 10:44 p.m.

    Let's deal with the fiscal escarpment thing and maybe some gun control first.

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 9:52 p.m.

    What about Entitlement reform. Illegal Aliens get tons of Entitlements that we can't afford to keep paying. If the Deseret News believes in Immigration Reform, I hope they press for high wages and making them pay into the tax system and to get them off of entitlements. I hope the Deseret News believes in E-verify so no one lives in poverty, not even US citizens. I hope the Deseret News believes a society free of crime, free of drugs, no need for entitlements and living the real American dream. I hope the Deseret News believes in exposing those who hire them and work them under the table for cheap wages while exploiting the middle class citizens for taxes. I want to see an article like that from the Deseret News. Lets have an article how illegal aliens gain entitlements because of cheap wages and the middle class gets exploited by losing jobs and paying taxes to the businesses that hire them. Lets talk about real reform.

  • Watch Dog Provo, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 8:13 p.m.

    Amnesty! What a great idea! When do our law abiding citizens get to pick the law(s) they want to ignore - and not be charged for?

    We have laws in this country for a reason. To toss them out, any of them, means that we really don't have laws because we are not going to enforce them. It's called anarchy.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 7:32 p.m.

    If you have followed the Deseret News for long you know that what they mean by "comprehensive immigration reform" is an across the board amnesty for almost all of the 12 million illegal aliens, including those that have been convicted of crime. I would support an amnesty, call it what it is under the following conditions.
    1. E-Verify established nation wide with strict enforcement. This would not deport anyone that has a job, only those newly arriving in the U.S. or looking for new job.
    2. Establish an enforceable visa entry-exit program that works. Presently about half of the illegal aliens enter on a visa and then intentionally don't leave.
    3. End birthright citizenship to children born to illegal parents, but allow them to apply for permanent residency when they are 18 years old, if they are good citizens.
    4. Increase support for border security and ICE
    5. End chain migration.

    Then I would allow those that are here illegally to apply for amnesty, individually through the federal courts. No sense giving amnesty and leaving the doors open. Parents and teachers know that if you want more bad behavior all you have to do is reward it.

  • hubbardesquire Alabaster, Alabama
    Dec. 17, 2012 6:04 p.m.

    No Deseret News, Americans are still paying attention. NO AMNESTY IN ANY FORM FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!! It is so funny that you America-hating liberals want to take away close to 100 million "assault" rifles but, you think it is impossible to deport a measly 12 to 25 million illegals!!!

    But, do not worry, those of us who love America are still here; and, in the immortal words of Captain John Paul Jones: "We have not yet begun to fight!"

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    "Where was the vote decided for Obama"

    Pennsylvania appears to be the state that got him to 270 if you rank them from largest to smallest winning margin.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 4:29 p.m.

    Way to go DN. In a June 12, 2002 Zogby International Poll, ‘… 58 percent of Mexicans in Mexico believed that the American Southwest belongs to them and 57 percent believed that they do not require U.S. permission to enter this country.” In 1997, then-President Zedillo proclaimed that “I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders. Our superior intellect and ambition will allow us to rule the nation to the north.” Zedillo has stated that Mexico will retake the Southwest through population. Sound like that might happen. Where was the vote decided for Obama. With weak knee do gooders like we read here it is on its way folks.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 17, 2012 3:21 p.m.

    Exactly Maverick.

    The GOP controlled the house and the senate under GW Bush and did nothing about immigration.

    Complete govt control for about 6 years.
    Not even an attempt at immigration reform.

    I guess they find it much easier to criticize what Obama does than to put forth a plan when they have to power to implement it.

    In the words of Clinton "It takes some brass...."

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 12:29 p.m.

    It's kinda funny that the one thing the Deseret News is to the left on is the same thing that I lean farther right on. The candidate whose immigration plan I most agreed with in the campaign was Newt Gingrich whose plan allowed for people to stay but not citizenship.

  • ryrye mccall , ID
    Dec. 17, 2012 12:12 p.m.

    I believe the poll mentioned here only refers to the children that fall under the Dream Act and does not refer to the many millions of other ILLEGAL immigrants. Polls consistently show that Americans prefer cutting off the jobs link so illegals will begin to go back home. This article skews the truth and hopes we will all fall for the typical false spin. Our culture is at stake and so are our JOBS!

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 12:13 p.m.

    "I'm not holding my breath that BO will keep any of his campaign promises, Immigration reform included. "

    So then why are repubs so angry at him?

    If he isn't accomplishing his campaign promises (like ending the Bush tax cuts or passing Health Care Reform) why are repubs so angry at him?


    Either Obama is getting stuff done or he isn't! It's like the GOP accuses him of doing nothing and then accuses him of doing so much!

    If he hasn't done anything then why are you folks so angry? Because he continues the Bush administration policies?
    If he is doing so much then why do you accuse him of not fulfilling campaign promises?

    Talk about double standards!

    Here's a lil fun fact that the GOP ignores, under Obama deportations have drastically increased.

    Also, if the GOP was really looking for immigration reform, why did they suddenly turn on their own baby, the Dream Act?

    If the GOP was really looking for solutions, they'd actually come up with some rather than blaming everything on Obama and obstructing every single solution proposed.

    Come up with some ideas GOP! If you cannot then STOP COMPLAINING!

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 17, 2012 11:37 a.m.

    Sorry. I left out a word in my prior post. It should have read:

    But we allow (over time and with proof of "good citizenship" - sorry no other word) they can get permanent legal residency.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    Before we can settle the problems with immigration we must settle the problems of JOBS.

    If the government favors business, workers will be harmed.

    If the government favors workers , business will be angered.

    Our society needs to take back the windfall profits provided to business by technology, automation and the increase in the world population. Not because the large profits are bad, not because big business is bad, not because rich people are bad, but because the future of civilized human beings is in danger.

    As we eliminate the need for workers, we are also eliminating most the consumers. It may be possible to have a world of businessmen and women devoid of workers but that seems very far away.

    “The government should hire every unemployed person needing and wanting a job at a living wage. There are millions of jobs that can be done for the welfare of the general public.
    The wages paid to these workers would be funded by a general tax on private enterprise.”

    Without the fear of unemployment, immigration would not be a problem. More people would simply mean more workers and more consumers.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    Previous Amnesties have not been effectively enforced. We could start with the enforcement. When a country is lax in their enforcement of immigration it creates a subclass. The main issue I would want addressed is the interpretation of babies born in the U.S. by illegal immigrants becoming auto citizens. This has been misinterpreted by the courts.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    ...immigration reform, funding medical care, fiscal solvency and effective gun control. He needs to spend some of his valuable time acting as leader of the US.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 9:22 a.m.

    We should just pass a new bill each week.

    Then, the illegal aliens could just pick which one they like best.

    If/when they choose none; well that's allright too, they can just keep ignoring ALL the illegal enforcement bills.

    Kind of like what they do now.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 17, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    I both agree and disagree about citizenship. The families I know who have been here a long while and have American kids would probably like citizenship but I think would settle for legal residency. Perhaps that is the penalty - they pay fines and cannot be citizens due to their illegal entry. But we allow (over time and with proof of "citizenship" - sorry no other word) they can get permanent legal residency.

    Our focus on citizenship should not (at least now) be the adults but the kids who have been here most of their lives and often have little brothers or sisters who are citizens. They need a clear path forward.

    Anything else is just fooling ourselves. Also, we have no national interest in creating a permanent underclass.

    If we do these things, THEN (in coordination with them) I am fully behind a strong border and E-Verify.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    Which amnesty stopped illegal immigration?

    •1986 for 2.7 million aliens, the amnesty to end all amnesties.
    •1994 section 245(i) rolling amnesty of 400,000
    •1997 section 245(i) extension
    •1997 Central American Relief Act that gave one million Central Americans amnesty
    •1998 Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act a amnesty for Haitians 125,000
    •2000 Late amnesty an amnesty for 400,000 that claimed they should of been included in the 1986 act. California courts were back up for years by the claims, finally we gave up.
    •2000 Life act amnesty a continuation of the 245(i) act 900,000 (approx) 60,000 still being given it each year (ave).

    Which one offers proof that amnesty is a deterrent to future law breaking?

    Dec. 17, 2012 8:14 a.m.

    And the US government did a study in 2007 that showed the cost to deport 12 million would be 94 billion. A one time cost. Compare that with the 113 billion taxpayers pay each year for them to use our partial services.

    They work cheap, that's why they have jobs. Once citizens they will be laid off and the next wave of illegal aliens will take their place. Our new citizens will mostly end up on welfare.

    We know it doesn't work, it just puts off true enforcement. It does provide cheap workers for our business community. Our only option is enforcement.

    Amnesty doesn't stop the law breaking, or the drain on taxpayers. Compassion for Americans before Christmas would be a great gift after what we have went through. Amnesty will tear us apart, as the honest fight for our country and constitution.

    Dec. 17, 2012 8:04 a.m.

    Seven reform/amnesties, and they never solved the problem, but became part of it.

  • wigglwagon Mariion, Va
    Dec. 17, 2012 7:42 a.m.

    This editorial says, "Apprehending, detaining and deporting what amounts to 4 percent of the population is not even remotely feasible, and allowing those people to exist in a state of perpetual limbo makes no sense in any humanitarian or economic context."

    This editorial never mentions in any humanitarian or economic context the citizen and legal residents who are already looking for work in America. Is anyone really naive enough to believe that increasing the supply of labor at this time is good for America?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 17, 2012 7:39 a.m.

    "I'm not holding my breath that BO will keep any of his campaign promises"

    How can he? Anything and Everything he proposes is blocked by the right.

    Heck, Mitch McConnell even filibusters his own legislation when the Dems agree to it.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 7:03 a.m.

    I'm not holding my breath that BO will keep any of his campaign promises, Immigration reform included. It's not in the best interest of the Marxist/progressive movement to take down the United States.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 6:40 a.m.

    I disagree. E-verifiying should be applied mandatorily for new immigrants and to establish whether previous hires are legal. Also school registration should annually establish the citizenship or legal residency of all students. You have to do that to obtain work in many companies, whether you are Hispanic or anything else. To obtain welfare and other benefits such a check could also be made. Illegal immigrants might then voluntarily repatriate since they need to work. In that respect I agreed with Mitt Romney's approach; I think it makes sense.

    You need a social security number to obtain social security; that's a logical check since all employees are to be enrolled into that system until it is phased out. Don't tell me it can't be done since it IS done in so many cases by many employers.

    Why the heavy handed approach of the editorial? (Basically : "There is only ONE approach that will work and here it is readers".) That appears to be nonsense and looks like an attempt to silence discussion, one that on past experience will never succeed).

    I'd love to be able to welcome immigrants into this country knowing they were here legally.