Shifting the blame from schools and teachers if children fail

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  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    I liked the emphasis on the children themselves making an effort. Parents can provide a secure emotional background and can persuade and encourage their children to do their level best, but the schools are blaming the parents for the individual performance of their charges.

    A student does best when he does his best: sounds redundant but more people need to recognize that. Students do best of all when they pay for there own education, which can't happen until college days however. Meanwhile let teachers and parents talk about what their education is costing and that they'll be paying for it, belatedly, in taxes for their working lives and beyond - so make the best of it junior!

  • Paul J Henderson West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    We all know how to fix the situation. It's funny how we can have such a poor educaational system when everyone knows how to fix it. Students see no need to work hard and parents want the full resposibility put on the teachers. They want teachers to educate their kids so they will be perfect little members of society but they don't want to pay them to do it. Having spent my life as a teacher I have grown very negative.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:31 a.m.

    This is pure FOX fiction. The only kids getting trophies for showing up a re 5 years old, and why not? Geeeez.

    The truth is that as soon as the kids get a little older there is hyper-competivism that easily gets out of control. I don't think people that repeat this FOXism actually have kids or have been to a high school footbal game lately. It's life and death, scholarchip or serving fries. It's taken much more seriously than when I played football in Hight School.

    Oh but there's alwasys the war on Chirstmas as well....

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 7:20 p.m.


    We should be less inclined to label certain skills as winners and others as losers. We need to appreciate the abilities of all kids. However, part of self esteem comes from accomplishment. Not all, but part. That can't be faked by false praise. Kids know the difference. We need to help them find their strengths and develop them and truly appreciate them.

    Mountanman - Thanks for all the smiles you put on my face today!!!

    Where is old man? He seems to vanish when his false information is challenged.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 5:56 p.m.

    "... the free phones thing has been going on since the 1920's."

    Are you saying we've had free cell phones since the 20s? I don't remember cell phones being available to the public since about ten years ago. But whaddo I know?

    "Obama wasn't even born then..."

    Nor was I.

    "Amnesty... last president to grant that was Reagan"

    You've never heard of Obama's 2-year stay from deportation program for illegals, with unlimited extensions?

    "free healthcare"

    Obamacare hasn't really fully kicked in yet.

    "college tuition"

    Student loans have all been taken over by the feds... who will offer forgiveness for those who go to work for the government some day.

    "Ask the family in my ward whose father died of cancer, and is now loosing their house to medical cost driven bankruptcy..."

    I guess Obamacare came just a little too late for them. Sorry.

    "But lets not disrupt the narrative in order to find real solutions to our educational challenges. This would ruin the victim party we all seem to enjoy so much."

    The real solution is for parents to take interest and get involved in their kids' education.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 4:48 p.m.

    It's not a shift. It belongs with the parents primarily. Everyone must do their job and not shift the blame. When parents take on children, it entails more than a B&B.

  • Homer1 MIDVALE, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 4:33 p.m.

    I disagree with the assumptions that even start this line of thought. Of course, competition is about losers and winners. Yet, education is not about winners and losers--it's about individuals growing and learning kinowlege and attain skills that help build them into mature human beings. Do you want to tell the kid that struggles as he works hard to master reading and math skills that he's a loser? Do you want to tell some kid that is smart and everything in school comes easy for him because he was born smart that he's a winner, without really having ot anything? This leads to high ability low achieving depressed kids or unsure adults with low self-worth. Andy, why? Because we as a society must have our winners and losers clearly defined?

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 13, 2012 3:26 p.m.

    To "UtahBlueDevil" so what you are admitting is that the original program has outlived it purpose. What was a means of getting phone service to rural areas is now being abused by state and federal government programs to buy cell phones for people.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 13, 2012 2:55 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701 - common... lets get off semantics. The program is funded by the same funds. This is hardly an Obama program. And in fact moving to cell phones has cut the cost to the fund dramatically.

    From Forbes Magazine;

    " Eligibility and type of program may vary from state to state – and this is why there is a flurry of confusion about the program being a product of the Obama administration. In Florida, for example, cell phone service was added to the existing program – in 2008, the year that Obama was elected to office. The conclusion from many folks was that it was a new federal program. It was not. It was an expansion of the existing program and implemented on a state by state basis."

    Google it... it give a good description of the Lifeline Program. But again, the narrative is that this is an Obama program, and even Forbes, not a left leaning publican, rejects that there is any free cell phone program started by Obama.

    As a former Republican, I know there is plenty to argue with the administrations about its policies, enough so that using these fabrication issues shouldn't be necessary. Lies just discredit the messenger.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 1:54 p.m.

    Yes, Mountanman, please do quit your job and have a great time on welfare. I'd enjoy hearing a report from you after a year. You can tell us how cushy it was living on the equivalent of less than minimum wage. Fun!

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Dec. 13, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    Mountanman says: Me, I am tired of working when there is no need to do it anymore! I am going to the unemployment office and get signed up for a free check.

    So, are you flat out lying here? If not, let us know how it works for you. If you are lying, all your credibility is lost.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Dec. 13, 2012 12:15 p.m.

    One has to believe that Mountanman is one lonely person with their attitude, and obviously very bitter. However, I wish they were true to their word and quit their job - they say they do work - and start living off the government to see just how pleasant that is. I'm sure that's what people who need government assistance are saying: Ah, I've dreamed of this my whole life, being so poor that I need government assistance.

    By all means, Mountanman, give it a try!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 13, 2012 12:14 p.m.

    You mean I get a free phone too? Wow! Now I am excited!

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 13, 2012 12:07 p.m.

    To "UtahBlueDevil" actually you are wrong. The fees were originally meant to connect phone lines to farms and communities that were distant from the big cities. The customer still had to pay for their phone use. The phones were never free.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 13, 2012 12:01 p.m.

    @ one old man. Please go to work, and work hard! We are going to need your taxes to support us. So much to redistribute so little time! Me, I am tired of working when there is no need to do it anymore! I am going to the unemployment office and get signed up for a free check! I hear Obama and the Democrats are talking about extending them, again! Can't wait for Obamacare to kick in! Whoop whoop!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:59 a.m.

    WRZ - the free phones thing has been going on since the 1920's. Obama wasn't even born then.... Amnesty... last president to grant that was Reagan.... free healthcare .... another Reagan deal when he mandated all had to be served at the Emergency room door. Food Stamps - yes their use has grown... and is worrisome. But demands on the churches Bishops warehouse is also rising. And college tuition.... not everyone can get that. My son was denied because of my income. So lets stop the silly little tales that we are taken care of cradle to grave.

    Ask the family in my ward whose father died of cancer, and is now loosing their house to medical cost driven bankruptcy, even though they had insurance. If we were taken care of like you describe, things like that would not happen.

    But lets not disrupt the narrative in order to find real solutions to our educational challenges. This would ruin the victim party we all seem to enjoy so much.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:52 a.m.

    Mountainman, why don't spend you new found time then doing something constructive rather than spewing anger and hate so much. I don't think I have seen yet a positive comment, or a suggestion. Nope, it has always been Obama's fault. Seems actually you have been blaming Obama the whole time - which by its inverse means that you also hold the government responsible for everything.

    Really, if you go outside, you'll find no one is keeping you from being successful. The country is filled with examples of people who have come from the lowest economic conditions, and succeeded. Many of the last centuries most wildly successful companies have been founded by non-college graduates. Dell, Microsoft, Oracle, Jet Blue......

    Your future is your own. We are all dealt cards that we have to figure out how to win with. Some choose to play their hand, other choose to complain, and complain... and complain. No problem was ever fixed by hating and complaining it to death.

    You got it all figured out.... mentor someone who hasn't figure it out it. But blaming Obama for every aspect of your life... does no one any good.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:51 a.m.

    Oh Old Man,

    You lecture Mountanman on truth in posting? You are the one that posted that Obamaphones, as they are referred to by their recipients, are not paid for by the government or taxes, which is completely untrue. They are paid for by the Federal Universal Serv Fund fees on land lines and cell phones. It is a tax, that the federal government has saddled the phone companies with collection of.

    You need to learn to check multiple sources to get a full and accurate picture of the truth before you post. Your beloved Politifact is biased and provides only half truths. Try reading more sources and more variety of sources. Don't just trust one book either. Even Christians read more than just the Bible.

    Government is so sneaky. You need to be better informed so they don't fool you again.

    Now that you know the truth are you ready to join the conservatives? We will welcome you. We are completely inclusive. We won't check your race, age, or gender, I promise. You just have to love the truth, love your fellow man, and love the USA.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:30 a.m.

    Congratulations, Mountain. But when you say, "Its always someone else fault from now on!" that's what you've been pointing out all the time. So what's new?

    The only problem is that your finger is usually pointed in the wrong direction. If you'd turn the radio off and start studying what's really happening out there, I'm sure you would find a lot of blame on all sides and not just your blind side.

    In fact, anyone who is capable to looking and thinking should understand that the fault is very widespread. Fault is shared by everyone who has some power. Sometimes they try to do what they think will be a good thing -- only to discover later that it wasn't. Sometimes the are motivated by greed. Sometimes circumstances get in the way.

    But people who fail to do their homework to learn who is REALLY responsible are only adding to the problems we all face. You might do yourself -- and the rest of us -- a big favor if you'd make an effort to become fully informed and then post comments.

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    @The Real Maverick:
    "I disagree with the letter writer. The problem is with parents being poor parents."

    I think that's what the letter writer is trying to say.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:18 a.m.

    "Nope, the government will take care of me from cradle to grave."

    This is what you have to promise to get elected. Free cell phones, food stamps, housing, college tuition, amnesty, healthcare, etc. The Democrats have had this figured out for decades.

    Republicans think you can run and be elected on concepts like self support, hard work, patriotism, love of country. No. Amature mentality. Romney goofed.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:04 a.m.

    Maverick and Blue Devil -- thank you for some good comments filled with wisdom. You are both spot on.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 13, 2012 11:01 a.m.

    @ One old man. Actually I do work. Its just that I am so excited that now I do not have to be responsible for my own life and there is no need for me to work anymore! Its always someone else fault from now on!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 10:52 a.m.

    So Mountainman finally let us know his real thoughts.

    I kinda figured anyone who has enough time to sit around all day and type comments here has to be either retired or on the dole full time.

    At last. The truth is known.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 10:48 a.m.

    I disagree with the letter writer.

    We didn't go wrong when we started "handing out trophies" to everyone. Please.

    We went wrong when parents valued the dollar more than raising our children. How many parents here in Utah both work to support their SUVs and 4 wheelers while the TV raises their kids? How many young people get married before really even dating or knowing their spouse which results in broken families? How many times do parents let their kids run rampant through churches, restaurants, and schools without any consequence? How often do parents try and buy their kids' affection through video games rather than being parents?

    Here in Utah, we're notorious for not wanting to "hurt" their feeling and rely (and then later blame) our childrens' shortcomings on the teachers? When, in reality, parents are merely friends to their kids instead of parents?

    The problem isn't with soccer trophies.

    The problem is with parents being poor parents. You cannot and should not rely on your bishop, elementary school teacher, or TV to raise your children. Sell that SUV, live in a smaller home, actually date around, grow up, etc so you can raise your children.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 13, 2012 10:43 a.m.

    One of the biggest problems with any educational system is because of the scale of the task, largely all kids are treated the same. Its how the system works.

    We have two boys. The oldest - very laid back, and took his education very much that way. Never put 100% forward. Played sports, did ok, but wasn't motivated by competition.

    Second sone. Highly competitive. When he gets lower grades than his peers in class, which doesn't happen often, it makes him mad. In sports, he excels far beyond his skills.

    Did my wife and I do much different between the two. Not much, but yes, they are different kids.

    Why do I mention this. The educational system is built around a one size fits all model. It is left to the parents to try to get their kids to fit into how they are being taught. If those parents don't value education, or don't have the skills to help their kids cope in a system not setup for them, even the most loving parents will fail.... as will their kids.

    Schools need to get smaller, more intimate, and allow parents to get more interconnected.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 13, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    Nope, the government will take care of me from cradle to grave. I have no need to try to excel in anything, no need to work hard, no need to achieve. Obama is my hero, I shall not want! He maketh me to lie down in my government paid for housing development, he feedeth me with food stamps. He giveth me free healthcare and I shall not want. Obama is my support and my rod! Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of mean Republicans, I will not fear, for in Obama I trust.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    Great letter. Parents have the most influence, and need to own that. When they do, they teach their children to own their own behaviors, successes, and failures as well. No claiming the successes, and blaming the teacher, the youth minister, the neighbor, or society for the failures.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 8:39 a.m.

    Excellent letter and thoughts. Thank you.