Government programs should be to give people a temporary hand, not a lifestyle

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  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Dec. 6, 2012 10:26 a.m.

    To "Wonder" stop your lies. I never said nor implied anything like what you say. You are just becoming an example of a typical liberal who jumps to conclusion with absolutely no evidence to support your extreamist point of view.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 10:09 p.m.

    Well guess what, Redshirt? Liberals don't think "Business bad - Government good". Take your own advice and stop stereotyping people who disagree with you.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:38 a.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" again,you show your absolute lack of understanding of conservatives.

    Conservatives don't believe "Business Good / Government Bad".

    They believe that Businesses, in general, are more efficient than government. Some businesses are good, and some bad, just like not everybody is good and not everybody is bad.

    Conservatives know that the larger and more power government has, the worse it is. This is a fact that can be seen in the Communist countries. The counries that gave government more power are struggling the most, and the communist countries that are easing up on control are doing better. That is a fact.

    Your ultra extream attitudes do not help. It only points out that with liberals it is their way or no way.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:02 a.m.

    So those fees (also known as a tax) on your bill, they pay Obamaphones. The government has saddled the phone companies with the task of collecting taxes for government use, and those taxes cost more per month than basic phone service. Until just recently the cost of the line $11, taxes and fees (more taxes) over $13. or in other words 120% tax on phone service. So excessive!

    So isn't your government sneaky? They fooled even you, the great truth seeker!

    Liberals should learn the truth before they post here.

    The truth is conservative biased. It takes huge corporate media outlets to corrupt the truth to make it look liberal biased and sell it to the masses.

    Now that you know this are you ready to join us? We will welcome you. We are completely inclusive. We won't check your race or gender, I promise. You just have to love the truth and love the USA.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:01 a.m.

    Oh Old Man,

    You have been fooled. Politifact is one of those biased outlets feeding you half-truths.

    Obamaphones, as their recipients choose to call them, are in fact paid by people who pay for their phone service.

    The Free Government Cell Phone website says right on it that "The government will pay for your free cell phone and service"

    Washington Examiner:

    The program is called Lifeline, established in 1984, originally created to subsidize landline phone service for low income Americans, funded by government-collected telecommunication fees, paid by consumers.

    To be continued

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 7:03 p.m.

    "T get sick and tired of your insults and of your representatives imposing policies which harm my family because those who voted for them want them to. "

    I'm sick and tired of your backwards economic policy which has only hurt middle-class families.

    I'm sick of the unfair tax policy which rewards top earners (who then buy off more government officials) while hurting those who are the real workers and job creators in this country.

    I'm sick of your wars. Iraq didn't attack us. Afghanistan didn't attack us, Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist group did.

    I'm sick of you folks drilling only to sale that oil to foreign countries.

    I'm sick of your excuses, your party had control of this country, and ruined it.

    I'm sick of your reps not compromising, but running our country off cliffs.

    Stop trying to define marriage and take choice away from women. Let people decide and let God judge.

    Most of all, I'm sick of your ilk attacking those who disagree with you.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Dec. 4, 2012 6:45 p.m.

    dwaynerichards 5:49 pm:

    I could take everything you said and apply it to conservatives in Utah who voted for Bush twice.

    Obama won. Romney lost. Get over it.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 6:35 p.m.

    I can't understand people who accuse others living the life on the governments dime. I got laid and I was making 29 a hour plus benefits. On unemployment I took home 450 a week and it was taxed at fifteen percent.

    Most sane people would rather make 29 an hour vs $400 a week.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 6:29 p.m.

    @ Mountanman 8:02 a.m. Dec. 4, 2012

    "Gaming the system is the newest and fastest growing occupation in America."

    You mean like all the schemers on Wall St who hatch plans that make 3 card monte look like well... 3 card monte?

    p.s. isn't interesting that Utah... is notorious for people who get conned by can't miss schemes? And, the number of people who work in *financial services*?

  • Noodlekaboodle Millcreek, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 6:03 p.m.

    Don't forget Medicare as well. That is also a subsidy to the insurance industry. The majority of healthcare spending is done in the last years of a persons life, and even more specifically the last 6 months to a year of a persons life. When they are on Medicare.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 4, 2012 5:40 p.m.


    In nearly every recession, when unemployment is above 7.2%, unemployment benefits have been extended. For example, they were extended early In Bush's term in office. The most recent extension of unemployment benefits was part of the "Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012," passed by Congress (yes, Republican-controlled and Republican sponsored).

    People don't qualify for unemployment without recent work experience. Who are the long term unemployed?
    Pew did some research and found:

    " In the current recession, older workers (45+) are less likely than younger workers to become unemployed in the first place. But, once an older worker loses his job, he’s far, far more likely to enter the ranks of the long-term unemployed than the younger worker is."

  • dwaynerichards Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 5:36 p.m.

    LDS Liberal,

    The President is not the chief executive officer of the United States. The Constitution never refers to the President by that term. In Article II, Section I, Clause 1 it states "The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America" and the Constitution refers to them as President and their office as the "office of President of the United States."

    "This is what wrong with conservative "Business Good / Government Bad" mind-set."

    No one believes business is good and government is bad. A conservative understands that while business may make bad decisions it will impact very few and mostly be to the detriment of their owners but when government makes bad decisions it is to the detriment of the whole of society. I don't care if the CEO of Walmart messes up and Walmart goes out of business anymore than I care Hostess went out of business.

    "We might whole-heartedly disagree, but for Pete's sake, at least try to be consistant!"

    Try to understand consistency. Hostess isn't the U.S. I never bought from them but I pay taxes and you waste my money on your stupid agenda.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:29 p.m.

    How can conservatives - with any sort of straight face -
    villify the Chief Executive - America's CEO is you will - the buck stops here, ect.,ect. for the sole cause and ultimately responsible for 100% of America's whoa's ....

    Pamper, Cottle, Excuse and even defense a Hostee Business CEOs.?

    This is what wrong with conservative "Business Good / Government Bad" mind-set.

    It's inconsistant, hypocritical, biased, one-sided and completely unrealistic.

    We might whole-heartedly disagree, but for Pete's sake, at least try to be consistant!

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 3:49 p.m.

    Hostess underfunded the pension plan by 75%. They took 75% that belonged to the employees and put it in the business to cover up their mistakes. America's biggest problem is lack of ethics in business, and poorly educated businessmen.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    Medicaid exists because of insurance companies and their ability to refuse per-existing conditions. Insurance skims off the healthy cream, and forces the government to take care of those with illnesses. It's a form of subsidy for our insurance industry.

  • Wanda B. Rich Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 1:42 p.m.

    Can we just rename the Republican Party the Heartless Party or the Let Them Starve Party and be done with it? They really seem to have no interest in preserving the Republic, except for those who can pay their own way (a smaller and smaller percentage, as time goes by). Let's get "Republic" out of their name once and for all. Or maybe we could just call them the Economic Darwinist Party.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 4, 2012 12:56 p.m.

    To "airnaut" actually we have a lot of unemployment benefits being paid from sources outside the FUI and SUI. The Democrats have authorized numerous spending bills that funnel federal tax dollars into unemployment benefits. That is money that was used to bail out the unemployment insurance. One example of this can be seen in "25K Nevadans Will Lose Unemployment Benefits Without Budget Deal" at Breitbart. The federal budget is in fact used to extend benefits beyond what the system could otherwise support.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 4, 2012 12:51 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" actually we are not quite to a 1:1 ratio for makes vs. takers. See "‘Welfare Nation’: The Sad Truth" at The Blaze. We currently are at 1.25 workers in private industry for every government worker/welfare recipient. That is not a good ratio.

    If the Unions didn't run a dying company into the ground, then explain who did? We have already done the math, and even if the executives were spending $2 million per year on bonuses, that is equal to 5 cents per hour of wages. However, if the union was requesting a $2/hr raise for just 25% of the employees, that would have cost Hostess $18.6 million. Tell us, which would cause more financial harm to a business?

    You say "these same Folks blame the executive in government Office for every ill in the entire Country" yet aren't you the same person who has repeatly blamed Bush for Iraq, Afghanistan, $5 trillion in new debt, and all sorts of things for the past 12 years? So, unless you are laughing at yourself, you are showing your "hypocriasy and dis-connect."

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 4, 2012 12:02 p.m.

    As I understand it - FUI and SUI [Federal State Unemployment Insurance] is paid for by the working Employee.
    It is shown as earnings on the W-2.

    It is a benefit the worker PAYS for in the mis-forunate event he'she becomes unemployed.
    and like any other Insurance, he'she is then eligbile to file a claim and draws from it.

    It's not different than Health Insurance or Auto Insurance.
    You've paid into it, and IF you need it - you are covered.

    I get sick and tired those who don't know, and don't care to find out the facts and mindlessly regurgitate the garbage they hear on the radio from college-drop-out, drug-addicts, who marry and divocre 3 times, NO children, and claim the moral high ground of via the Rush Limbaugh Institute of Conservative Studies.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:38 a.m.

    Let's just say for the sake of argument that some people are scamming the system. And the reality is that some are I suppose. But even most of these "scammers" would probably prefer to be middle or upper class. I don't think any lives well if on food stamps or unemployment or disability. They might have the "lifestyle" of getting by but I don't think any of these people are living the dream. As for the ones that need these services, well they need these services and more compassion is in good order.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:34 a.m.

    It is true that the federal government can only spend the money it takes from taxpayers. Part of the reason that this truism is also a lie is the unsaid facts that the same is true for every state and local government and all the successful business operations in the USA.

    Governments exist do the things that the people who own the government want it to do. The only universal rules are that the task must be possible and that the people are willing to pay for it.

    The problem with our Constitution is that unscrupulous people have devised too many hurdles for the people to change it. Technology, knowledge and the need for workers have changed and we need to update the rules of government.

    When the takers outnumber the workers where will we be? Right where we are. All of us in America are takers of our government’s benefits.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:31 a.m.

    Well why don't any conservatives ever just do it themselves? I've never heard ANY testimony of someone testing their theory that the welfare system is so good you can just kick back and enjoy the easly life on it.

    Why not? Where are the conservatives with proof that they tried it and it was SOOOOOO easy to take advantage of the system? Lots of conservatives have been out of work in the last 10 years. Where are they? I should be hearing from hundreds and thousands of conservatives about how easy it was for them on welfare........

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:30 a.m.

    some of you right wing talkers are just a veritable dictionary of Fox News taking points. Giving governments money is just feeding an addiction? Reading some of these inane comments makes me wonder who really has the addiction.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:16 a.m.

    Like Hostess --

    The BAKERS were the Makers,
    The CEOs and Executives in Office making bad business decisions were the "Takers".

    But keep blaming the Unions for running a 100 year old Company into the ground.

    [Funny, these same Folks blame the executive in government Office [Pres. Obama] for every ill in the entire Country, but can't seem to be able to make the same sort of connection and accountablity with Business Executives. the hypocriasy and dis-connect is truely Amazing!]

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 4, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    Many of you are missing the point! More taxes will not help, unless we cut government spending! Giving the government more money is like giving an alcoholic more booze to cure his addiction, it won't help! We will never tax our way out of this mess! The government is like a 500 pound gorilla that demands and consumes ever more of the efforts of those who are called upon to feed it, it cannot go on much longer.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 10:24 a.m.

    "When the takers outnumber the workers, where we will be?"

    Patricia Sorensen


    We're aleady there.
    1% are takers who produce nothing, yet own 80% of the wealth,
    99% are the makers who actully do the production, and fight over the remaining scraps off the table.

    Other "Takers" would be like WalMart, or WallStreet, Bankers, Money Changers.
    while the true "The Makers" - are dying in factory fires in Pakistan and Bangladesh or jumping out of factory buildings in China.

    But keep symbolically washing your hands of their blood, or blaming Obama if it makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night.

    Dec. 4, 2012 10:21 a.m.

    Which jobs would those be, Patricia? Are your going to require "job creators" to hire unqualified people and then train them? Or do the potential workers (who currently have no job and no money) need to be retrained first?

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 10:07 a.m.

    I agree with only one statement made by Patricia: "Nothing in life is free for anyone who works for a living, only those who choose to live on others' hard work get things for free." Like, for instance, Mitt Romney and other wealthy investors who do not produce a product but reap huge windfalls from the work of productive people. Mitt made what, $20 million, in 2011? While doing what? Running for president. He's obviously a taker, since he didn't really produce anything.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 10:07 a.m.

    I always wonder what would have happened if we had taken the money spent on the war on Iraq and instead invested it in created job and education programs across the united states. To the tune of BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars.
    I wonder what would have happened.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 10:03 a.m.

    Those who earn seven or even eight figures per year for doing nothing but sitting on a board or heading up a company are the real takers. They haven't "earned" anything, they are merely taking from the people in the companies who are the actual producers.
    It's completely backwards to think otherwise.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Dec. 4, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    Don't be surprised,
    It's people who think like this that will one day fully support "Death Panels".

    There only 2 ways to end hunger, pain or suffering -

    1. Feed, Clothe, and heal
    2. Put them quickly out of their misery.

    The letter reminds me of story great story told and re-told this time of year --

    A Christmas Carol
    Charles Dickens

    [Are there no prisons? are there no workhouses?
    If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population!]

    Merry Christmas Ms. Scrooge.

    FYI - Beware - The Nazis chose the latter for their "final solution" to the same problem.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 9:01 a.m.

    Chris, I sure get a kick out of people who believe in the Obamaphone myth.

    Actually, it's a program that was started by Ronald Reagan, but is not paid for with government funds.

    Here's a clip from Politifact: Q: Has the Obama administration started a program to use "taxpayer money" to give free cell phones to welfare recipients?

    A: No. Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it.

    Why can't people on the right seem to make an effort to learn the truth before posting comments? Perhaps it's because it's true that Truth Has A Liberal Bias.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:46 a.m.

    The writer points out that there are those who truly need and should be helped, and there are also those who are clueless leaches, and a whole lot of welfare people somewhere in between. So is it wrong to try to root out the ones who should and could be working and are not?

    By the way, my hypersensitive democrat friends, a free phone is one of the programs welfare people get, but it was not the writer who instantly jumped to Obamaphones, it was one of you.

    Obamaphones, Obamaphones, Obamaphones! I know it's embarrassing, even if no one actually says it, but until you stop supporting the Obamaphone lady mentality, you will continue to be so sensitive, that soon you won't even be able to see someone in business clothes talking on a cell phone without thinking, "That nasty successful person said Obamaphone to me!"

  • Henderson Orem, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:43 a.m.

    I have an idea for Patricia... How about instead of complaining she actually does something about her (imaginary) problem?

    How about she starts up her own business, employs (legal) American workers, and pays them 50k+ per year plus benefits?

    That way, folks wouldn't have to rely on "government handouts" to pay for food or receive basic health care. That way, her employees could contribute something to society instead of being "takers." That way, Patricia would be contributing to society something other than hateful and bitter letters which make excuses for why Mitt Romney lost.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:33 a.m.

    Medicaid is a band-aid that became necessary because this nation would not provide universal health care as other advanced nations have long done. There are some that need it on a temporary basis, there are some that have abused it,(but very few) and there are some that have chronic medical conditions and disabilities that preclude them from working and obtaining private health insurance. Since it is largely administered by the state government, medicaid's competence to meet medical needs is affected by the political orientation of each state.

    In Utah, no matter what your health needs are, it is almost impossible to obtain Medicaid if you happen to be male, and not easy if you are female. It will be interesting to see if this right wing republican dominated state will opt for the expansion of Medicaid under the ACA.

    As hard as right wing Utah government is to the plight of the poor and disadvantaged, and suspicious of their motives, I bet they opt out.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    Two-thirds of Medicaid funds are spent on seniors in nursing homes. They would surely get out of their beds and get a job if our socialistic president hadn't forced them to become dependent on government handouts.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:12 a.m.

    Excellent response Emajor. I would add that what Mrs. Sorensen doesn't understand, is that the vast majority of those who get food stamps, and medicade do have jobs. They are workers. They simply work for the likes of those on this blog who brag about being job creators but don't pay a living wage and don't give any benefits.

    By the way Mrs. Sorensen when you work but don't earn a living wage, you can scrape together $150 for a microwave on a one time basis, but you can't put together $500 each month for health insurance. That's the difference.

    PS. The second you mentioned Obama phones you lost all credability with the knowing.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:08 a.m.

    People who write letters like this are usually quite ignorant of the facts.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:03 a.m.

    Patricia's class warfare was used by the repubs in the last election, it has been debunked countless times by experts, and this hate agenda was clearly rejected a few weeks ago.

    More sour grapes from the right. Nothing new here.

    People like Patricia don't use facts to back up their opinions. No matter what we tell her she'll still believe what she wants to believe.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:02 a.m.

    Gaming the system is the newest and fastest growing occupation in America. The facts tell the truth; the number of people receiving disability payments from S.S. has doubled in the last 10 years. Either the gamers have figured out how to scam the system or the work places of America have suddenly and mysteriously become very dangerous. More people are receiving some kind of aid from the government today than at any time in our history. Its difficult to argue with facts but it sure wins elections! We taxpayers better shut up and get to work and sign on to more tax increases because the gamers (victims) are depending on you! That, in a nut shell, is the message from Obama. More gamers=more Democrat voters!

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 7:29 a.m.

    It is the difference between a hand out and a hand up. This is so obvious that it needs little discussion.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 5:44 a.m.

    This is a common refrain but I am guessing that Mrs. Sorensen has no idea how many people are using these programs as a temporary help vs. how many are abusing them. I don't want to pay for people's abuse of the system either, but I am not going to judge anyone without knowing their individual circumstances. Mrs. Sorensen doesn't sound like she knows anyone's individual circumstances except her own.

    Her argument that the poor live better than the global average leaves me a bit cold. I suppose that since you have a microwave rather than squatting in the dirt around a fire, you couldn't possibly have other needs. Sorry, Mrs. Sorenson, owning a microwave and TV doesn't mean you are abusing the food stamp system. Or that you can afford medical expenses. This is the same diseased thinking that leads to First World corporations who employ Third World people in sweatshops to claim "hey, the working conditions are bad and the pay is worse & I'd never put up with it, but it's better than they are used to".

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:57 a.m.

    Patricia, your letter is hyper-simplistic conservative whining based on right wing sour grapes about why Republicans lost as much as they did last month.

    Until you see Americans as more than "takers" vs. "makers," you won't be able make a meaningful contribution to the debate about federal budget priorities.