View from the Booth: After two eye-opening Pac-12 seasons, Utes must improve talent level

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  • Don't Feed the Trolls Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2012 8:02 p.m.

    Can't we all just get along?

    to troll: to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook

    don't troll, and don't take the hook.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 2, 2012 9:57 a.m.


    "In other words it's weak for Whit to say they need better talent instead of saying I need to coach a whole lot better."

    I agree, that was weak. I personally think utah has the talent to compete with the middle to bottom pac12 teams. Now understand I'm saying "compete" and that means they win some and lost some. In some years they'll beat more of the mid to bottom pac teams than they lose to and in some years they'll lose to more of them than they beat.

    As far as this year is concerned I think what utah did is indeicative of what they are. They had some talent at some positions but they also lacked talent at some very key positions. I htink whittingham did a poor job of coaching and I think he made a very poor decision when he appointed johnson o-ccordinator.

    And when all of those factors are looked at utah probably finished about where they should ahve finished and with the exact record I predicted. But it is extremely poor form for a coach that did a poor job to criticize the talent he recruited and coached.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 2, 2012 2:05 a.m.


    That number does not reflect poorly on the conference, it reflects poorly on Stanford. Any other team in the PAC-12 would have sold out if they had the privilege of hosting the CCG.

  • Zona Zone Mesa, AZ
    Dec. 2, 2012 1:48 a.m.

    If BYU rejoins the Mountain West, Utah would be smart to rejoin them. The Mountain West would be a stronger conference than what they left if Boise State and San Diego State also rejoin. Utah would be better able to compete and where they will be assured of going to a bowl game each year ... something that is not guaranteed in the Pac-12, and, in fact, seems very unlikely at the moment. They just simply are not going to be going back to BCS Bowl anytime soon if they have to beat out USC, Stanford, and Oregon every year. Utah has shown they can't compete with the Arizona schools. After two years in the Pac-12, Utah has shown they are closer to Washington State than they are Oregon. Might be time to cut your losses before Utah actually turns into Washington State.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Dec. 1, 2012 9:28 p.m.

    So when Davonte Christopher wasn't practicing hard for several weeks, which coach(es) should we blame for that? When I heard that during the Arizona game, I just said what the heck! So it looks like the talented the players weren't playing hard and the there is a lack of talent generally and a lack of coaching to help motivate those with talent to push themselves to their potential. 5-7 says it all I guess...

  • Proud Ute ,
    Dec. 1, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    I think they're trying to stir things up here, because they can't believe that Utah fans still like the Utes. We understand the set backs we had this year. We like our coaches. We're glad Travis Wilson got significant experience. We like the improved recruiting, and are looking forward to playing Stanford and Oregon next year.

    Over on the Cougar boards, they're mad at Holmoe, Bronco, and Dolman. Last year, they fantasized about what would happen if Nelson was the QB all season. This year, fantasize about how Lark would have taken them to the championship game against Alabama. No Ute fan can post anything as ugly as Cougar fans are posting about their own team.

    Spot on!
    Little boys w/ with blue goggles throwing stones at big brother doesn't change the cold truth.
    I've started to enjoy the posts from the coog trolls. Must be tough on them to know no matter how they try to trash the U and no matter how many trips they take in the way back machine,their program is doing the white bowl whirl.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 1, 2012 7:25 a.m.

    I have always said that the Utes are a lower level team in what is turning into a lower level conference. It will be fun to see how many Pac 12 teams get beat in bowl games, just like last year. Should have stayed in the Mtn. West. Same with the Y.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 1, 2012 12:25 a.m.

    What an embarrassment for a "power" conference to have only 31,622 people show up for their conference championship game!

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 1, 2012 12:17 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Alabama was a nice win for Utah, the high water mark of your football history, but unfortunately for U, the last hurrah for a program that's been in steady decline since.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 30, 2012 11:26 p.m.

    Utah 34 Final
    Alabama 17

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 30, 2012 11:17 p.m.

    Who's the last non conference team to beat Alabama? Just askin.....

    Was it BYU?

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 30, 2012 7:36 p.m.

    In other words it's weak for Whit to say they need better talent instead of saying I need to coach a whole lot better.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 30, 2012 6:31 p.m.

    Utah's talent is not as good as Oregon, USC, UCLA, Arizona State and Stanford, but I think it's just as good or better than Arizona, Washington, Washington State, Oregon State, California, and Colorado. Utah did not do as well as they should of because Whittingham and Johnson (new OC) had a poor year coaching. Not giving Hays the fall reps at QB and going with Wynn yet again was foolish, then going to the freshman (Wilson) too early sunk the ship when Utah played well enough to beat Oregon State and UCLA outside of Wilson's awful performances.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Nov. 30, 2012 5:35 p.m.


    How many pseudonyms do you use?

    I don't know about sportsfan, because I only occassionally read posts from him, but it's obvious that Duckhunter and sammy are two entirely different people.

    Just curious, though.

    Why do Utah fans react to losing arguments by resorting to personal attacks or whining about BYU fans posting on "Utah" articles?


    On another topic, why are Utah fan now complaining about the "growing pains" of playing in a very competitive conference?

    BYU fans have been saying for over two years that Utah fans were delusional for pretending that the Utes could step into the conference and instantly be one of the big boys, but Utah fans totally dismissed BYU fans "concerns" saying Utah was much better than the Arizona team of the last 30 years that BYU fans were comparing Utah to.

    Now your using the very arguments BYU fans were using, but using them as your excuse for being a bottom dweller in the PAC 12.

    btw, you have no proof that Utah would have done any better with BYU's schedule. BYU was 2-1 against common opponents, Utah State, Washington State, and Oregon State. Utah was only 1-2.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 30, 2012 4:19 p.m.


    More ute "fan" hypocrisy at its finest. Keep up the good work. LOL!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 30, 2012 3:46 p.m.

    It's always funny to me to read comments from utah "fans" that somehow think winning a couple of bowl games is better or more noteworthy than winning the actual Football National Championship. You know the most important single accomplishment in all of the NCAA in any sport.


    Nov. 30, 2012 3:41 p.m.

    sammy/duck/sportsfan (How many pseudonyms do you use?)

    You do the true BYU fans a disservice with your constant jabs at Utah's program in general, and their fans in particular. I compliment the DNews for removing many of your inflammatory comments.

    You want a fair discussion? Utah suffered this year from the growing pains of playing in a very competitive conference. They had only one easy game: Northern Colorado. BYU played four easy games: Hawaii, Weber State, Idaho, and New Mexico State. Although Utah's record is 5-7 and BYU's is 7-5, it is very misleading, since Utah BEAT BYU, and only played one easy team as opposed to four.

    If BYU had played Utah's schedule, one can see that BYU most likely would have finished 4-8 at best, although they may have even lost another game or two. Plain and simple. I question your motives coming on an article about Utah, and then doing your best to insult personally and stir up trouble.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 30, 2012 3:37 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    It's laughable that you chose to ignore BYU's ROAD wins over Air Force(8-4), Hawaii(7-4) and Utah(6-5-1) in 1984, while citing your win over a weak Arizona(3-8) team as a noteable win for Utah in 2004.

    Air Force BEAT Virginia Tech 23-7 in the 1984 Independence Bowl.

    Here's a clue that might help you gain a less biased, more objective, understanding of how BYU won the 1984 National Championship.

    Do a detailed study of BYU's overall record, rankings, and championships from 1979 to 1984, noticing particularly what BYU did in 1983, the real launching pad for 1984.

    Then do the same for Utah from 1999 to 2004, and 2005 to 2008.

    You'll come away with a better understanding of why BYU was in the thick of the championship race from mid-September, 1984, and why Utah was never a serious candidate in 2004 or 2008.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 30, 2012 2:46 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Whenever somebody tries to argue that ANYTHING is better than winning a national championship, we know that they're just deluding their jealous little selfs.

    Sorry, but this is a "no double-dipping zone". Every factor that you've cited, and many that you conveniently overlooked, were already factored into the final rankings in 1984, 2004, and 2008.

    Utah only beat THREE teams with winning records in 2004, none with less than FIVE losses.

    Gotta laugh at you including 3-win Arizona and 6-6 North Carlina in your "notable" victories; even more laughable was you were too embarrassed to include the names and records of two of the three teams with winning records that you beat.

    It doesn't matter what Pitt was ranked when you played them, they were only ranked #25 in the Final AP Poll, UNRANKED in the Coaches Poll. And, the Utes were only ranked #6 in the final BCS rankings, same as they were in 2008.

    Slice it any way that helps you sleep at night, but that still won't change the fact that

    #1/#1 in 1984 > #4/#5 in 2004 or #2/#4 in 2008

    Nov. 30, 2012 1:45 p.m.

    One think we continue to forget is that the play calling is horrible. We continue to go horizontal rather than vertical. We have enough talent to compete in this conference. The key is we need an offensive coordinator that will call plays down the field not to the sidelines. North and South not East and West.

    In conference's like the PAC 12 you can't wait around and see if it gets better. You need to make changes quickly to improve the program. Look at Robert Anae(out of BYU now in AZ) Telford at California, because mediocrity won't cut it in this conference.

    Good luck Whitt. Make changes to survive.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 30, 2012 1:35 p.m.

    When ever some one actually thinks that the BYU NC season was far superior to Utah's Sugar or Fiesta bowl season, it tells me that they are extremely bias and not objective.

    BYU 1984 Season
    -Didn't beat a single ranked team.
    -Notable Non confernece wins against Baylor (5-7) and Pitt (3-7-1)
    -Bowl win over 6-5 Michigan 24-17

    Utah 2004 Season
    -Beat #20 Ranked Pitt
    -Noteable Non conference wins over Texas A&M (7-5), North Carolina (6-6) and Arizona (3-8)
    -Bowl win over 7-4 Pitt 35-7

    Utah 2008 Season
    _ Beat #11 TCU, #14 BYU and #4 Alabama
    - Noteable Non conference wins over Oregon State and Michigan
    - Bowl win over 11-1 Alabama 34-17

    It's pretty easy to rank the three season from an objective and unbiased point of view.

    FYI: The year BYU won the Cotton Bowl was far more impressive than the 1984 season. It was comporable to Utah's 2004 season.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Nov. 30, 2012 1:08 p.m.

    One national championship by beating the winningest major college football team in history, and a team that was MUCH better than that pitiful Pittsburgh team Utah, by default, faced in the Fiesta Bowl.

    BYU was disappointed in not being able to play Nebraska or Washington, (two Top 5 teams who were invited but turned down invitations to play #1-ranked BYU in the Holiday Bowl), but BYU had NOTHING to be embarrassed about.

    We can pat ourselves on the back because we earned it by beating every team we were supposed to.

    Despite the opinions of the whiny naysayers, BYU's national championship is well respected in the college football community at large, in fact, commentators regularly cite BYU's national championship as one of LaVell Edward's many accomplishments that validate their praise of him as a College Football Hall of Fame coach and by extension, BYU as a nationally respected major college footbal program.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Nov. 30, 2012 12:56 p.m.


    "If BYU had done what it had in 83-84 in modern times that likely wouldn't have even made it to a BCS bowl game"

    You have absolutely NO PROOF of that other than your own biased opinion.

    Who BYU beat to win their national championship was carefully evaluated by all five major national organizations who selected a national champion in 1984.

    After careful scrutiny of BYU and every other legitimate contender for over a month, BYU was selected as being more deserving of the national championship than any other contender, by all five major selecting organizations, including a majority of voters in both the AP and Coaches Polls.

    What makes you think your opinion is more valid than the AP and Coaches Poll voters?

    BYU rose to #1 in both polls in exactly the same manner as every other #1-ranked team in history, by winning.

    During BYU's 24-game winning streak, from the 2nd game of 1983 to the final game of 1984, BYU beat TWO Top 15 teams, Air Force and UCLA, on the road.

    What ranked team did Utah beat in 2004 to become the first BCS buster?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 30, 2012 12:48 p.m.

    1 National Championship by default. Beating a 6-6 Michigan team in the Poinsettia Bowl. Not beating a single ranked team that season. Yeah right. How embarassing. Keep patting your self on the back though, no one else is going to.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 30, 2012 12:09 p.m.

    Skywalker, beating no final ranked teams and a schedule of woeful WAC teams, topped by barely beating a barely bowl eligible team in a December bowl isn't that impressive. Due to the rules (which have since been changed so something as lame as that can never happen again) BYU was voted #1 as all other teams had losses (because they played real schedules). If BYU had done what it had in 83-84 in modern times that likely wouldn't have even made it to a BCS bowl game (e.g. year undefeated Boise State didn't get into BCS game due to weak schedule). I guess 84 proves that being lucky is sometimes better than being the best.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Nov. 30, 2012 11:16 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    1 National Championship > 2 BCS wins

    Any college football fan who disputes that is just blowing smoke.

    I'm sure those Fiesta and Sugar Bowl trophies look very nice in Utah's trophy case, but if you watch ESPN Game Day every Saturday, you've noticed that the ONLY trophy that they ever display on the field before the game is the American Football Coaches Association National Championship Trophy.

    Winning a Crystal Football Trophy is the ultimate goal of every major college football team, and the prize that will now be waiting at the end of the 4-team and soon to be 8-team playoff.

    btw, Top 25 finishes are what every team that isn't in contention for a national championship strives for - the higher the better. In fact, Utah fans have been beating their chests for years simply for beating an occassional Top 25 team.

  • plyxply SLC, UT
    Nov. 30, 2012 11:03 a.m.

    I wonder, is it better to be one of the better mid major basketball programs in the country and one of the most respected and recognized football programs in the nation who wins between 7-10 games a year, or is better to be a bottom dweller in the PAC 12 in basketball and a mid level football program in the PAC 12?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 30, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    @ GoRed

    You are spot On!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 30, 2012 9:11 a.m.

    @ Skywalker

    The problem is BYU fans are fixate ENTIRELY on top 25 finishes. Let's compare BCS bowls. There's your que, quick to your time machine.


  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Nov. 30, 2012 8:15 a.m.


    The problem when Utah fans cite "history" is you fixate ENTIRELY on the head-to-head between BYU and Utah. Just another of the many indications that Utah fans are totally and exclusively obseesed with BYU.

    Why not compare national championships, national individual award winners, national college football hall of fame inductees, conference championships, Top 25 finishes, 10+ win seasons, and overall records?

    The answer is obvious. Utah's national and overall accomplishments pale in comparison to BYU's. Even during the Bronco/Kyle era, the Utes have had fewer Top 25 finishes, fewer Top 15 finishes, fewer 10+ win seasoons, fewer undefeated conference seasons, fewer conference championships, fewer winning seasons, fewer bowls, and a worse won/lost record.

    Instead of being a perennial Top 25 team for the last 35 years, filled with dozens of national awards and conference championships, U have 2004 and 2008, and practically NOTHING else on a conference or national scale.

    It's laughable that a fanbase that has spent the last 30 months rubbing their PAC 12ness in everybody's face gets so testy when their rivals simply state the truth that being a bottom dweller in a power conference doesn't make U special.

    Nov. 30, 2012 7:02 a.m.


    It's pretty bad when you have to refer to another team to fight your battles. Why not refer to your BYU team's game against Utah? "LOL"

    jealous Y

    Bringing up irrelevant accomplishments of 30 years ago? Really? Since you're bringing up ancient history, in all fairness, you need to look at the whole body of work. And that would be 56-34-4 in Utah's favor. Or more recent history: Utah 13 BYU 7; Utah 8 out of 11; Utah 3 in a row, etc.

    I'll never understand how the fan base of a team that has been so thoroughly dominated, finds the gall to go onto their opponent's comment boards and try to dish out trash talk.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Nov. 29, 2012 10:58 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    LOTR: "Rarily ever won a MWC championship?" Who has won more MWC Football championships than the Utes?

    LOL at how you "conveniently" only included the MWC in your question, when LOTR's statement included both the WAC and MWC:

    "a team that rarily won WAC/MWC championships wasn't going to suddenly be competitive in the PAC 12 just because they had a couple of recent perfect storm seasons."

    I'll answer your question, with a question:

    Who has won more MWC Football championships than the Cougars?

    Of course you already know that BYU and Utah are tied with four each:

    BYU(4): 1999, 2001, 2006, 2007 (Bronco won two)
    Utah(4): 1999, 2003, 2004, 2008 (Kyle won one)

    It's obvious why you left out the WAC

    BYU(19): 1974, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996
    Utah(2): 1964, 1995

    The truth is, Utah has only won SIX conference championships in the last half-century, and two of those were shared with BYU.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 29, 2012 10:39 p.m.

    "I really believe that more BYU fans comment on U stories than U fans do."
    I think they're trying to stir things up here, because they can't believe that Utah fans still like the Utes. We understand the set backs we had this year. We like our coaches. We're glad Travis Wilson got significant experience. We like the improved recruiting, and are looking forward to playing Stanford and Oregon next year.

    Over on the Cougar boards, they're mad at Holmoe, Bronco, and Dolman. Last year, they fantasized about what would happen if Nelson was the QB all season. This year, fantasize about how Lark would have taken them to the championship game against Alabama. No Ute fan can post anything as ugly as Cougar fans are posting about their own team.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 29, 2012 6:47 p.m.


    Rarily ever won a MWC championship? Who has won more MWC Football championships than the Utes?

  • johanBjorn Salt lake city, UT
    Nov. 29, 2012 5:19 p.m.

    I really believe that more BYU fans comment on U stories than U fans do. SLTrib, Deseret News, and KSL. They're all dominated by the 10% of those Cougar fans that make the rest of them look bad.

    So keep it up, 10%. You're just making your team's fanbase look that much worse.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 29, 2012 5:02 p.m.


    I agree, it's great to have our little blue colored followers.


  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Nov. 29, 2012 4:51 p.m.

    Naval Vet
    LOL, yep I agree, you are disappearing just like most fair weather Utesie fans, now that you know all they are is a PAC bottom dweller

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 29, 2012 4:29 p.m.

    @naval vet

    That was a very frantic and emotional post from you. They are getting more frantic and emotional all of the time, well at least all of the time that you are here which is rarer and rarer with the continued slide of the utah football program. I enjoy your angst.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 29, 2012 4:13 p.m.


    "Many Utes have stated they would rather lose to PAC12 teams than win over MWC and WAC teams."

    Actually, NO Ute fans have said that. You made that up. The only fans who HAD posted that nonsense are the Indy-WACey ones.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and you jealous frantic and emotional coug fans will still distort what Ute fans have been saying all along:

    Ute fans would rather PLAY Pac-12 teams, than beat mid-majors. Nowhere in there would we rather LOSE! Ute fans want to settle it on the field. If we lose, then we would have proven that we weren't the better team. If we win, then we would have proven that we were. Beating New Mexico doesn't prove anything.

    And neither does beating Idaho or New Mexico St.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 29, 2012 3:28 p.m.


    USU... LOL

    Nov. 29, 2012 2:16 p.m.

    Again, as always, thank you BYU "fans" for your concern. The Utes will be fine as they adjust to the growing pains of being in an elite conference. Utah has had to adjust to playing a quality opponent each and every week. There are no games against the lower end of the very weak WAC conference to pad their win-loss record with. Meanwhile, it is your team that you should be concerned with, with an uncertain quarterback situation, and an uncertain schedule from year to year. And, after all of those issues, you still can't beat your rivals. Must be frustrating for you.

    Go Utes!!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 29, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    Everything needs to get better; coaching, talent, depth and discipline. I have faith in coach Whittingham, everyone program has a bad year or two. I'm still not sold on Brian Johnson. The play calling got better as the season wore on, but still quite predictable. Not sure about Travis Wilson either. He just doesn't seem to have the arm strength. The PAC 12 was extremely loaded this year, but that's no excuse. Time to step up.

    Also, thank you for your concern BYU fans. So noted.


  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 10:33 p.m.


    Ask anybody from the Administration,to the coaches, to the athletes to the fans at either one of those schools and none of them will say, "We should have stayed in the WAC."

    Only a very few of the naysayers have said U should have stayed the WAC; what they've really been saying is all the bluster about the Utes instantly becoming one of the top dogs in the conference and regularly challenging for conference championships and making regular Rose Bowl appearances has been proven to be, as the naysayers said it would,...

    nothing but a bunch of hot air.

    Two full seasons in the PAC and the Utes still haven't beaten a PAC 12 team with a winning record.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:06 p.m.


    Of course you were trying to claim I was being a hypocrite, obviously I am not. That wasn't even a good try at backtracking on your part. LOL!

  • Qwest Perfected Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 7:52 p.m.

    Utah has struggled to compete at this level on a weekly basis. This shouldn't be a surprise to any realistic fan. We started out with a few things going for us like USC not being able to compete for a bowl game last year and not having Oregon and Stanford the first two years. Next years schedule will be significantly harder so the Utes definitely need another good recruiting class in order to compete.

    With all of that, there are still plenty of positives for Utah's football program. Utah still hasn't been receiving their full share of PAC12 money and they have still been able to make some major changes to their facilities. All of which will help the recruiting effort as well. Utah will also get a share of 8 bowl games with one being a BCS game. The program will earn more money this year than they did in multiple years of competing in the MWC.

    The talent level is getting better and better. The proof is that we were able to once again beat byu with a D2 QB and a rookie OC maybe it is the other program who should be worried.

    Go Utes!

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 7:40 p.m.

    Once again your posts continue to be of a myopic and servile nature. My post made no comment about you liking or disliking Ute posts on BYU articles but rather an example of the hypocrisy you speak of. I guess I gave you too much credit.

  • Down under Pullman, WA
    Nov. 28, 2012 5:05 p.m.

    Well DUH Deseret News!! In addition to lack of talent let's look at coaching. Utah coaches along with the players are NOT on par with other PAC 10.2 schools with the exception of WSU in football. They may arrive there someday but it will be a journey of many years. Just keep your chins up Utah fans. You wanted it. Sometimes we get what we ask for.

  • Th Tooele, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 4:58 p.m.

    Utah does need to improve the depth at position such as O-line, Linebacker, etc.

    Personally, I thought the glaring issue with this season was coaching. Utah has seemed to of forgotten how to tackle. Speed doesn't do any good if you don't tackle.

    Utah was very inexperienced at some positions this year. Brian Johnson was up and down as a coordinator. I never heard Whit throw any players under the bus specifically. But he admitted there were some issues all around following the CU game last Friday.

    Hopefully he learns from his mistakes of this season and turns it around.

    Duckhunter... Of course Riley is a "homer!" He's the UofU play by play guy. Not any different than Greg Wrubell. Well, other than he's better at what he does.

    As for the other Ute haters. We don't care about BYU basketball. Your team is in a conference that plays in run down high school gyms against bad competition.

    I for one am stoked about the PAC12. Every week is exciting. No more 4 week stretches of Wyoming, CSU, New Mexico, and UNLV. Yeah we struggled this year, but I had a blast watching!

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Nov. 28, 2012 4:55 p.m.

    The only thing the haters are proving on these boards is that they have no life. Why else would you hate on the team you can't beat? Doesn't make sense unless you are full of jealousy & hate.

    If BYU was invited to the PAC12 everyone knows they would gladly abandon Independence. Now that Utah has found a solid home in the midst of conference upheaval, some Y fans want you to believe that the Utes fate is hopeless, when in reality BYU is the program that's staring in the face of uncertainty.

    If all Utah can do is occasionally compete for the PAC12 South, that's fine by me because it's much better than the past (MWC) and any current alternatives (Independence).

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 3:29 p.m.


    Your comprehension struggles are funny as well. You see I don't complain about utah "fans" on BYU articles, I actually enjoy having them there as their lack of logic and constant hypocrisy amuse me. Of course you are one of the thicker posters around here.....

  • 2020 Herriman, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 3:29 p.m.

    Several people have brought up Arizona and their lack of success. I would also bring up ASU, as they have only been to two Rose Bowls, only winning one. Ask anybody from the Administration,to the coaches, to the athletes to the fans at either one of those schools and none of them will say, "We should have stayed in the WAC."

    Perhaps the U haters are right, and Utah will have to look forward to those once in 5 to 7 years good seasons. But we will never again be considered "mid-major."

    So BYU fan, good luck in your bowl game, good luck against St. Mary's and Gonzaga in basketball(the rest of the conference is a joke), and good luck at continuing to be one of the top mid major programs in the country.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 3:14 p.m.


    "The fact is the U is currently mediocre but has a plan, coach and athletic director to far exceed the current state of affairs."


    What's the plan?

    Hoping to catch lightning in a bottle a third time is simply wishful thinking; it's not a plan.

    The Utes haven't had a road win against a PAC 12 team with a winning record since the 90's. The Utes rarily break into very bottom of the Top 25 in recruiting, let alone finish in the Top 10 on a regular basis like USC, UCLA, and Oregon. Utah's athletic budget and facilities pale in comparison to most of the other PAC 12 schools.

    So what's your plan for even finishing with a winning record in the conference, let alone, challenging for a conference championship.

    The truth is, Utah will continue finishing somewhere between 4-8 and 8-5, with an occassional breakthrough year every decade or so, where the Utes might win 10 games and have an outside shot at getting into the Rose Bowl.

    Other than that, expect lots of Las Vegas Bowls where you can toot your horn about beating the MWC champion (sometimes).

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 3:07 p.m.

    Your statement about Utah fans commenting on BYU articles is exhibit A in BYU "fan" hypocrisy,so no, thank you once again for displaying it.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 2:37 p.m.

    Riley you were one of the biggest, if not THE BIGGEST, utah homers going into this season. Every swingle article you wrote on here was about how talented the ute's are or what a great coaching staff they have, blah, blah, blah.


    BYU's dominance over utah in basketball, I think BYU has won 11 out of 12 or something like that, doesn't stop utah "fans" from posting and talking smack on BYU articles or about BYU basketball. I personally love reading utah "fan" hypocrisy, like your post, so thank you once again for displaying it.

  • stonewall Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 1:57 p.m.

    I don't know why it's been so hard for everybody to state what seems to me to be so blatantly obvious: the past two seasons, Utah has had some of the worst collective quarterback play in the entire nation. (Not entirely different from their counterparts in Provo) I think there's no question that the coaches botched the position in recruiting. Anytime you have to essentially go pick a guy up off the street in Jon Hays, who was on the verge of not playing football after his DII school dropped their football program, and he has to start multiple games for you in both seasons, it's clear you have an issue. Utah didn't field a FBS quarterback, let alone a "Pac-12" QB. Yes, there were certainly other factors and weaknesses at play in Utah's rough transition: a 25-year old OC who has never had any football experience outside the University of Utah, a weak o-line, and a linebacking corps which everyone assumed would be good just because they always had, when in reality they actually weren't all that talented... but the past two seasons, DII and true freshman QBs killed Utah

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 1:56 p.m.

    I get a kick out of all your posts! Your takes are truly funny as you try to degrade the Utes when the Y is routinely drubbed year after year by the U.
    The fact is the U is currently mediocre but has a plan, coach and athletic director to far exceed the current state of affairs. The Y on the other hand has no concrete plan for the future to elevate their program past a 3rd or 4rth tier bowl even if they go 11-1, fact.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 10:53 a.m.

    Utah is another Washington State in the PAC-12. Competitive every 5-7 years.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    4 and 5 star recruits > 2-3 star recruits.

    Can I get a job in 'the booth'?

    This just confirms what many of us have already known. Utes want to compete, have tried to compete at this level but have fallen short of the hyped expectations. Reality now settles in and hard work and perseverance along with some luck at recruiting is needed to move forward.

    Good luck putting it all together. Other PAC12 schools have been at this longer than the Utes and continue to fail at it.

    With two lackluster years under the belt it will be interesting to see what the Utes will do now that the two wonder seasons of yesteryear have been exposed as wonderful once 'in blue moon' great experiences. 'History' oft times does not carry over too well over the dusty trails to other conferences.

    It will be interesting to see what you guys do next. I will be 'tuning in' as usual. Count on it.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:47 a.m.

    I think that the PAC-12 will improve the Utes. It will be painful, and they are going to have to be deeper throughout their depth-chart. Their first-string can win and are peers with the rest of the PAC, but they still don't have a second or third-string that can replace the starters.

    With the above thoughts, a single injury can destroy the Utes ability to compete in the PAC. In fairness, one can expect the Utes to slowly improve over the next 5-10 years. They need some patience as they go through this painful process.

    "What doesn't kill you, makes you better."

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:41 a.m.


    I agree with most of your comments, but I do think that the Utes will win an occassional recruiting battle with teams like USC, UCLA, Oregon and Stanford, but those will mostly be athletes with strong Utah ties.

    As for long-term success in the conference, Arizona is a good example, although I do hope that the Utes have their breakthrough sooner than 30 years.

  • LOTR Baltimore, MD
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    "After two eye-opening Pac-12 seasons, Utes must improve talent level"

    It's interesting that its taken two full seasons for the Utes to realize what everybody else in the country already knew...

    that a team that rarily won WAC/MWC championships wasn't going to suddenly be competitive in the PAC 12 just because they had a couple of recent perfect storm seasons.

    The truth is, Utah will never be able to out recruit most of the teams in the PAC 12, so the best the Utes can hope for is to have an occassional break through season with an experienced, senior-dominated team. If they're lucky, those senior-dominated teams will come along when the rest of the conference is down a little so the Utes can compete for a conference championship. Other than those infrequent break through seasons, Utah fans are just going to have to get used to middle to bottom of the PAC seasons as the new norm.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 12:10 a.m.


    I'm not downgrading anyone. I recognize Utah is about 3rd or 4tth in the PAC 12 South. I recognize they are ahead of Washington State and Colorado. I honestly believe Colorado and the "Rumble in the Rockies" will turn out to become a big deal, in SLC and Boulder but likely not anywhere else. Arizona has never been to the Rose Bowl after how many years in the PAC 10? Remember, they are the ones that talked Arizona State into leaving the old WAC and ASU ruled that conference. Why should Utah think they are going to suddenly be there? Many Utes have stated they would rather lose to PAC12 teams than win over MWC and WAC teams. Well, they have their druthers. They're happy and so am I. No smack....dude....just reality setting in on your program. And that's OK too...this is the Aggie's year to shine. They beat U didn't they?

  • UteinIdaho Sandpoint, ID
    Nov. 27, 2012 11:55 p.m.


    I wonder what it is like taking time out of your day to talk smack about a team that beat you. I say I wonder, because I genuinely do wonder. If you are a somewhat educated adult, you realize how idiotic and nonsensical it is to spend time out of your daily life trying to downgrade an opponent that did, and has repeatedly beat you. ? Maybe?

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 27, 2012 11:39 p.m.

    Amazing! One bad season, and fans are against the coaches.

    Doesn't matter what team you're looking at,-fan reaction is the same.

    The utes will be ok,--just give it some time.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 11:25 p.m.


    Careful man. In the middle of that rant you almost exposed your bitter jealousy....

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 11:11 p.m.

    But but but.....they're in the PAC12.....nothing can be wrong with that. Just look at all the light poles in SLC every fall, with hanging PAC12 banners. (No one else in the conference feels the need to do that, but that's another story.) So what's wrong with finishing 3rd or 4th in the PAC12 South every year? At least they're ahead of Washington State and Colorado. Their best new friends are Arizona and Arizona State.

    And they have a new rival---Colorado! Can it get any better that that? What do they call that---Rumble in the Rockies? Are you sure that isn't just USC and Oregon indigestion?

    You wanted it---Rose Bowl and all---so now enjoy it. I'll cheer for you in person every 20+ years when you get to the Rose Bowl (assuming you actually do, unlike Arizona).

    Nov. 27, 2012 11:04 p.m.

    Hawkeye79, it may sound harsh when someone else summarizes it, but Whit is quite candid when talking to his players about their accountability, and it's not only something he expects from them, but they expect themselves and each other to be accountable for their play. This doesn't mean he doesn't hold his coaches or himself accountable, either, however. However, in public, he doesn't throw individuals under the bus, he addresses concerns, and those that it concerns know who they are and what they need to do. So statements like that do not surprise me.

    I agree with Bill about Wilson, though. This year, when he made mistakes, "freshman mistake" was always a valid explanation, while when he made a good play that's a "nice job by the true freshman." Next year he won't be able to lean on that, if he makes a mistake now, it will just be considered a bad play, and good plays will be expected, not commended. I think, and hope, he's up for the challenge, and will continue to progress and improve.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Nov. 27, 2012 10:57 p.m.

    Scheme and coaching need to improve just as much as the talent level. Top 5 concerns moving in to next season are:

    1- QB
    2- OC
    3- LB
    4- WR
    5- Corners

    The O-line has some talent that was sidelined this year.

  • slcftball Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 10:34 p.m.

    Good luck boys.

    Next year you drop 2 of the easier games and replace them with Oregon and Stanford.

    Like I said....good luck.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Nov. 27, 2012 10:21 p.m., according to Whittingham, the problem is not an inexperienced offensive coordinator and questionable play calling, but rather that the Ute players simply aren't talented enough? I'm pretty shocked that he would say this, and can't imagine that the players feel good about being thrown under the bus.

    If Whittingham has pointed out where he and his coordinators are at fault, please point me to the interview. I just don't believe that he would make such a statement about his players without taking the lion's share of the blame.