Secession from the United States is ridiculous

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  • DougS Oakley, UT
    Nov. 24, 2012 7:01 a.m.

    Mant comments concerning Social Security entitlement are made without considering how the act was originally sold to the public. FDR backed the act in the early 1930s to provide "something" for all workers when they reached 65 years of age. Over the years, the Democrats in charge morphed the act to include payments to children, medicare, construction of living facilities and who knows what.. Had the act continued in its original form, there would be a surplus of money.. Unberable for a politician. Oh, and by the way, there is no trust fund for Social Security ever since the LBJ administration decided to put the money in the general fund and issue IOUs so they could spend it along with other tax collections. Social Security was never designed as a retirement fund and anyone who depends on it for their retirement is foolish.

  • Demo Dave Holladay, UT
    Nov. 23, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    Texas should secede fromm the union and everyone in the other states who wants secession should move to Texas. Problem solved! Th United States doesn't need these wackos and we certainly don't need Texas.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Nov. 22, 2012 2:53 p.m.

    I don't want to be too rude but let's define two different words and how they are spelled.

    SUCCESSION is to follow something.

    SECESSION is the act of leaving the union.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 22, 2012 10:44 a.m.

    That's why I said give them Mississippi OR Alabama. Not both. Of course if we gave them both, they wouldn't be missed.
    You should read what I wrote and fix your math.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 22, 2012 10:37 a.m.

    I wrote this letter. I was just trying to point our that the federal government could retaliate if Utah or any other state seceded from the Union. We are a polaarized nation and I get it. I just think secsession is an over reaction and mostly supported by Obama haters. I just wanted people to stop and think that there could be drastic consequences to seceding. I can deal with criticism. Thanks for all the comments, even the negative ones.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 22, 2012 7:43 a.m.

    Love it or leave it.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 22, 2012 7:35 a.m.

    San Diego, CA
    The airport would not shut down. It would continue to operate as its own airport. They would just have to coordinate with FAA.

    [Delta would pull SLC as it's hub. The FAA, TSA, and all airport maintenane and operatons are FEDERAL employees -- I HIGHLY doubt the 2.7 million Government Taxes = BAD living here in Utah could/would ever pony up and increase their taxes enough to continue operations in SLC.]


    USS Enterprise, UT
    To "LDS Liberal" I hate to be the one to tell you this, if just the "red" states left, you would lose more than 3 states. You would lose nearly all of your food and fuel producing states, along with some major transportation hubs.

    [Fine, bring it on. All Farming subsidedz would stop immediately as would all Oil subsidies. Food and Oil would then be sold on the GLOBAL market at GLOBAL market prices -- Mexico and Venezuela could EASILY beat Red States Food and Oil prices. How could farmers compete when immigrant farm worker CAN go to Blue States and be shot on sight in RED States?]

  • JustGordon Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 22, 2012 7:06 a.m.

    The paying of taxes is the price citizens pay for financing the democracy they live in and promoting the general welfare of all. Only freeloaders and bums want to get something for nothing.

  • dhull Orem, UT
    Nov. 22, 2012 12:53 a.m.

    It has become predictable that when someone complains that redistribution is morally wrong, opposing voices broaden the argument to cover a wide spectrum of things for which taxes are collected.

    When taxes go for services and infrastructure, there is something we can distinctly point to that we receive in return for the taxes we pay. Such services and infrastructure are available to all.

    When taxes go to welfare programs, the funds are funneled to a specific (and growing) group. Coercive taxation is required to fund government welfare programs (no volunteering to help the poor here). Horror - I am heartless for not supporting government welfare. I happily support private organizations that care for our poor and needy.

    Critics - Before you nitpick, please answer the specific question: What right do you have to take my money and give it to someone else?

    Helping the poor and needy is wonderful. But the fact that coercion is required to accomplish your end ought to disturb you. The ends do not justify the means. The ends don't look so good either. Too many people have been crippled by the dependency that government welfare programs have created and perpetuate.

    Dependency is not the American way.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 10:04 p.m.

    To all those favoring succession, if you don't like the United States please leave. No one is keeping you here.

    However the rest of us are staying and will remain citizens of the United States.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 9:50 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" I hate to be the one to tell you this, if just the "red" states left, you would lose more than 3 states. You would lose nearly all of your food and fuel producing states, along with some major transportation hubs.

    But that is just a distraction from the fact that "Ernest T. Bass" could not do some simple math. You are distracting from the fact that he said to remove 2 states, and add one to remain at 50 states.

  • rok San Diego, CA
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:44 p.m.

    I'm not advocating secession, but there are several problems with this letter, one of which is the fact that the writer does not know how to spell "lose". The airport would not shut down. It would continue to operate as its own airport. They would just have to coordinate with FAA. The national parks would close, but be opened again as state parks. The military bases would close, but Utahns would not have to pay any money towards a national defense. The only military needed would be a small police force to guard against internal strife, unless you think Arizona is going to invade or that China would fly over the other states to invade.

  • cavetroll SANDY, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 6:27 p.m.

    @ MountanMan

    "The succession idea is a symbolic protest of our morally bankrupt government who steals money from those who EARN it and redistributes it to those who don't!"

    I couldn't agree more. However, I contend the Utah state government is morally bankrupt. Does that mean I can secede from Utah? After all, I earned my money, yet the state keeps stealing it from me and redistributes it to those who don't.

    $13 million to a contractor. Steady business to family and friends of our elected leaders. No bid contracts. Yhe list goes on.

    And fyi you spelled "mountain" wrong.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 5:33 p.m.

    Mountainman, Social Security is in trouble because it has been raided.

    And the first president to start raiding it was Reagan.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 4:36 p.m.

    USS Enterprise, UT
    To "Ernest T. Bass" 50 - 2 + 1 =49. If 2 states go, and you only bring in one more, Puerto Rico would be the 49th state.

    11:54 a.m. Nov. 21, 2012


    Guam (D), Puerto Rico (D), America Samoa (D), District of Columbia (D), Norther Mariana Islands (D) and U.S. Virgin Islands (D) --
    are all already U.S. Territories, and all already have U.S. Congressional Representatives in the House.

    I say bring it on -- they are all Democratic House members.
    And we'd be loosing a good chunk of the far-right-wing obstructionist Republicans while gaining all Democrats.

    We could still have 53 states, even if 3 lunitic states actual DID seceed.

    BTW --
    We'd also gain 12 new Democratic Senators.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 3:54 p.m.

    Didn't they petition at the White House's own website where citizens are invited to petition? Didn't "the most transparent administration in history" promise to respond to any petition with more than 25,000 signatures? Has the White House responded yet?
    Call the petitioners (and I did not participate) kooks, call the birthers kooks, call the people who believe Obama is a Muslim kooks but understand there is a reason they feel that way. This President feels distinctly "un-American". Maybe because he was raised in Indonesia. He doesn't have anything in common with blacks who grew up in inner cities. And people who feel this way aren't racist. Herman Cain was extremely popular with many conservatives as is Allen West. It has nothing to do with skin color- just something about the way he talks when he's off the prompter that makes many people uneasy. Vote for revenge? Would Eisenhower have said that? Would Clinton have said that?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 3:25 p.m.

    Jane Fonda went to Hanoi, Vietnam.
    she never signed a legal Federal document and sent it to the President of the United States,
    yet SHE was labeled a traitotr to her country.

    Anyone who signed those petitions stooped lower than old Hanoi Jane ever did.

    Jane Fonda is more patriotic and less traitor than ANY of these blow-hard rebel cowards.

    BTW - Lucier and all his followers were cast out of Heaven for Rebellion - NOT for ideology.

  • GiuseppeG Murray, Utah
    Nov. 21, 2012 3:22 p.m.

    Question for Blue:

    How do you feel about someone who is considered "wealthy", having paid into the Social Security system as much or more than most, having that payout taken away from them or significantly reduced because they're considered to be in a "wealthy" class?

    You see, because of your argument of "paying our fair share" and expecting to receive what was promised, I would expect your answer to be that it shouldn't be about how much they have, but how much they've paid in for it to be "fair."

    Just wonderin'

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 11:59 a.m.

    @ twin lights and wonder: actually you are both wrong. We became The United States of America after Abraham Lincoln laid down the law and used the force of the Federal Government to prevent secession ( he did the right thing but that's when States lost their autonomy- not when the current Constitution was written).
    @ECR- are you convinced that a nation of 300 million can be micromanaged by unelected bureaucrats in Washington DC without significant use of forceful coercion? Tell us about some current countries in the world as large as the US geographically and by population that are prosperous and peaceful. China? A lot of people who disagree in China are "disappeared".
    All that said, there are other ways to secede. Notice the increase in homeschooling? I simply recommend getting your children out of government operated schools and doing everything legally possible to avoid paying taxes to the Federal Government and having a solid exit plan.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    To "Ernest T. Bass" 50 - 2 + 1 =49. If 2 states go, and you only bring in one more, Puerto Rico would be the 49th state.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 21, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    Geez! Can I please not be labelled as a Romney Supporter or a Racist? It's is pure ignorance to think only Republicans and Racists, or even white people sign these petitions.

    Does this letter writer know how to grow his own food or build things? If you can't do that, It would be hard to live in a seccesionists enviornment. Just because some peole are employed, doesn't mean they are not depedndant on the government unfortunatley.

    After the revolutionary war, it wasn't all flowers and sunshine for the economy. They had big problems early on. But god was with them and if you have the spirit and quick to remember your god, you will prosper. The lord even says if ye keep my commandments ye shall prosper.

    But I would rather live free and poor than rich and in slavery. America has very much become a psychological slave state and a dependent state.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Nov. 21, 2012 11:29 a.m.

    red state pride - The Great Seal of the United States includes the Latin phrase "E pluribus unum' - Out of many, one. It succinctly describes the reason we have a nation. Not only are we made up of 50 states but we are made up of over 300 million citizens. In this great land, each of us has the right to think and act according to our own conscience but in the end we all need each other to make this grand experiment work. The "coastal liberals" and everyone in between has a part to play and each of us has the responsibility to exercise our rights as citizens every day. We often disagree on what steps to take to better the nation but without that debate and the compromise that should follow, we will have nothing more than a dictatorship. Rather than focus on our differences it might help to focus on the things we all share in common. That is how we became a great country and it is the only way we will remain that way.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 11:14 a.m.

    @red state pride -- You may not know this, but our forefathers tried the approach you're suggesting under the Articles of Confederation. Under the Articles, each state was sovereign and the states were only loosely tied together. That form of government didn't work, so just a few years later, in 1789, the Articles were replaced with the Constitution, setting up our current system with a strong federal government. I think we should stick with the wisdom of people who tried what you're suggesting and went with a better plan after they saw the results.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Nov. 21, 2012 11:10 a.m.

    Red state pride,

    That would be the Articles of Confederation. The Constitution replaced them when they were found to be wanting.

    The Real Maverick,

    I think there are clear differences between what Pres. Obama has done and what a Republican president would have done. But I fear you are correct reference what I think of as the “afterburner” effects of the current president’s race. There are real issues, but it adds fire.


    What national infrastructure? Hoover Dam? The interstates? Federal courts? Know anyone on Social Security or Medicare?

    However, your point about everyone paying taxes is cogent. Note that most do in the form of payroll rather than income taxes. Our failure to account for those skews the debate. But yes, everyone but absolute poorest need to have some skin in this game.

    Lost in DC,

    They might not remove them but you might end up paying tolls to go in and out.


    The first Republican disagreed.


    No one owes anyone a living. And you are right, it is going to get rough unless and until we begin to see that we really are better off together rather than apart.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    Secession doesn't have to mean a complete separation from other states. Why can't we go back to being united States of America instead of being The United States of America? What binds West Virginia coal miners and coastal liberals together other than the fact that coastal liberals and unelected EPA bureacrats want to close down their coal mines? What benefit do the coal miners derive from that relationship? Why do citizens of Utah tolerate the same coastal liberals dictating to us what we can and can't do on land within our borders? Nobody in Utah is telling people in Martha's Vineyard what they can do with their land. Why do the people of Utah need an unelected bureaucrat like Kathleen Sebelius dictating to us what our health care arrangements should be?
    The state of Utah has been relatively responsible financially but I assume Utah citizens will be expected to foot the bill when California's financial position finally becomes untenable. Why is our union with CA important? So we can all go broke quicker?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 10:32 a.m.

    The Declaration of Independance was NOT a protest petition.
    The Confederate States of America was NOT a protest petition.

    Both constituted acts of war and blood shed.

    It will be interesting to see how the Federal Government retaliates if a 2012 sessionist group fires on the equivilate of a modern Fort Sumter.

    I suspect HomeLand Security and Domestic Terrorist forces will be the 1st line of America's Defense against such rebels.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    Simple question...

    Had a white Republican been elected in 08 and did all the things that Obama did, would these folks still be angry?

    I truly hope that it's politics which they're upset about and not something else... But unfortunately, I think we all know the answer to this question...

    As we've seen Obama do EXACTLY what the GOP once wanted, especially in Health Care reform, and look at how "outraged" the right suddenly became! Want to know what Obamacare was considered in the 90s? The GOP's Health Care reform.

    Interesting how things change when an African American Democrat is elected into the White House...

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    Blue you said "What I do expect, however, is that all of my fellow citizens, including you, pay their fair share for the national infrastructure we all use."

    What National Infrastructure are you talking about?

    90 percent of the Roads in Utah are State or local roads that are maintained by these entities with Taxes they collect.

    90 percent of Law enforcement falls under the same entities... They are paid by State, City or County taxes...

    Everyone talks about the Police, Roads, and such but fails to realize they are local not national.

    My whole issue the current "redistrubtion" plan is that they penalize people for working hard and getting ahead.. while they leave the rest alone..

    You say everyone should pay their fair share, Right? So why don't ALL AMERICAN pay taxes? no just increase the wealthy taxes but make the non paying citizens pay something as well, maybe not to the extent the wealthy does, but EVERYONE should being putting something into the coffers.... according to you anyways.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 9:07 a.m.


    I am not saying that secession is a good idea, but make sure your arguments against it are cogent.

    Closing Hill, Dugway etc? You mean the US maintains NO military bases outside our borders?

    end tourism because the US no longer runs the parks? You mean the canyons and mountains etc would just cease to exist and no one would therefore want to see them?

    Close the airport? Delta would abandon the lucrative routes and no one would ever come here again?

    The USDOT would come remove the highways? really?

    Black Knight,
    no, the seniors have paid for those benefits.

    Joe Blow,
    BO is running the country like bush and reagan? Where do you come up with such garbage? Partisan politics, perhaps? bush and reagan never dreamed of the deficits BO is amassing. they never forced religious people to effectively provide abortions to their employees. They never FORCED people to buy something. they NEVER used class warfare to get re-elected. They NEVER LIED to the extent the current miscreant in the WH has lied.

    old man,
    the entitlement programs were never designed to support the number of people they support now. Dems continually add more to maintain power.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 9:02 a.m.

    re: JoeBlow 8:44 a.m. Nov. 21

    You mean the income redistribution that is the Free Market/Wall Street isn't all its cracked up to be?

    What are you some kind of Communist? ROFL!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:50 a.m.

    I wish they would succeed. We'll give them Mississippi or Alabama. They can move, have their own utopia and let the realists run the United States. We can add Puerto Rico as the 50th State.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    Redistribution, Redistribution.

    We hear it over and over.

    We hear how the wealthy's wealth is being confiscated and handed out to others less fortunate.

    But, the reality is that the wealthy are getting more and more, uh, wealthy. They are continuing, at an accelerated pace, to accumulate more and more of this countries wealth. The disparity in this country is growing rapidly.

    How can that be? I thought we were redistributing their wealth.

    I guess the money is just not collecting at the top quick enough for some.

    Those who wish to "redistribute" the wealth, are doing a pretty lousy job.

    Does anyone think that the collection of wealth in the hands of so few is a good thing for this country?

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:42 a.m.

    Mountanman, I have never once felt that anyone owed me a living.

    What I do expect, however, is that all of my fellow citizens, including you, pay their fair share for the national infrastructure we all use.

    I also expect, in fact I demand, that the meager pension and retirement savings I contribute to with every paycheck will be there for me when I retire.

    I have been faithfully contributing to my Social Security account for over 30 years, and I expect the portion of that that I have been promised to be there for me when I retire. I will also expect that the portion of Social Security that _you_ are entitled to will be there for you, too. The social contract of American citizenship expects nothing less.

    I am not owed a living, but we are all owed a level playing field, both in our economy and in our social policies.

    The only thing I really feel "entitled" to is fairness. Yes, I know that life isn't fair, but for the sake of my children and grandchildren I'm working hard to make it so. You should be doing the same.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:36 a.m.

    Part 3

    They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.

    However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.

    Twin Lights here. I hope these quotes (authored by Washington with help from Madison and Hamilton) help to frame the debate. One thing I get out of this, is that there is nothing new here. The old debates are the current debates. We need to stand together.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:33 a.m.

    Part 2

    . . . With such powerful and obvious motives to union, affecting all parts of our country, while experience shall not have demonstrated its impracticability, there will always be reason to distrust the patriotism of those who in any quarter may endeavor to weaken its bands.

    To the efficacy and permanency of your Union, a government for the whole is indispensable. No alliance, however strict, between the parts can be an adequate substitute; they must inevitably experience the infractions and interruptions which all alliances in all times have experienced. Sensible of this momentous truth, you have improved upon your first essay, by the adoption of a constitution of government better calculated than your former for an intimate union, and for the efficacious management of your common concerns.

    . . . The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established government.

    All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:33 a.m.

    From Washington's Farewell Address (in 3 parts):

    Part 1

    . . . it is of infinite moment that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts.

    . . . Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism more than any appellation derived from local discriminations.

    . . . Here every portion of our country finds the most commanding motives for carefully guarding and preserving the union of the whole.

  • custer Boise, ID
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:26 a.m.

    No state should be forced to stay in the Union. What kind of Union would that be? How can we call ourselves the "United" States when we have to force states to remain. If the majority of people in a state want to seceed, let them go. They are not trying to destroy the United States, they simply want to form their own democratic nation. Our nation and Federal Govt are getting far too large anyway.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:18 a.m.

    I will leave this debate with a question for those of you who think the rest of us owes you a living; Who will fund your entitlements? The number of those who are paying for it are diminishing rapidly while those on the receiving end are growing exponentially! The Democrat's serious dilemma is who is going to pay your bills? Hunker down folks, its going to get rough!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:13 a.m.

    No, Mountainman, it's you who are missing the point.

    How about trying to learn WHY entitlement spending is increasing. Could it be because many Americans -- who have worked hard and paid taxes all their lives -- are now reaching retirement age and beginning to collect the Social Security they have PAID FOR all those years? Could it be that these same Americans -- who have worked hard and paid taxes all their lives -- are now receiving incomes that put them below the income tax threshold?

    Could it be that many American workers are now out of work because of companies that shipped their jobs overseas?

    Could it be that many Americans -- such as those working at WalMart -- are paid so little and kept on less than full time status that they have no choice but accept food stamps and Medicaid?

    Could it be that many Americans -- such as those working at Hostess Brands -- have had to take pay cuts so the company executives could enjoy 300% pay increases?

    Instead of simply regurgitating the conservative radio blabs, why not do some research and learn the REASONS why things are as they are?

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:10 a.m.

    I am not in favor of secession, but the arguments put forth by the letter writer are ridiculous. Why on Earth would a separate country Utah close down everything the federal government currently handles? The national parks would still be open, just managed by a different nation. Likewise the highways would be open and managed by us instead of a bunch of bureaucrats in Washington.

    Like typical liberal thinking, the author suggests that the local people in Utah would do a far poorer job of managing our own local resources and money than all the "smart" people in the federal government. I think just the opposite is true (like typical conservative thinking). We would do a far better job of making sure the system is run more effectively and efficiently.

    I think the people of Utah (and the people of the whole US) can be far more productive and prosperous if the right systems are in place to encourage hard work and innovation instead of discouraging it through excessive taxes and regulation. Unfortunately, we are heading fast in the opposite direction under Obama.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:55 a.m.

    Another result of this asinine secession notion is that any leaders involved would be guilty of Treason. Personally, I think anyone who promotes this foolhardy notion should be tried for that crime.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:52 a.m.

    @ Joe Blow. You missed my point, again! Entitlement spending is at an all time high and going up by trillions every year through redistribution. Almost half of Americans pay no federal income taxes at all and are getting some kind of free goods that other people earned. We have plenty of other taxes (fuel taxes, property taxes, and state taxes) to pay for roads, schools and firefighters. Entitlement redistribution is not sustainable but it sure wins elections for the Democrats, at least until we go bankrupt!

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:40 a.m.

    "The succession idea is a symbolic protest of our morally bankrupt government"

    Secession is a pretty serious measure, and one that should not be taken lightly, even symbolically. The one time secession was seriously acted on it caused the bloodiest war in American History. Brother against brother, a time in which I had hoped we had learned our lesson and dared not repeat.

    When the colonies "seceded" from Britain, it was a little different. First off, there was a huge geographic separation known as the Atlantic Ocean, the colonies were suppliers (not takers) to Britain and already had enjoyed relative autonomy until the French and Indian War.

    Biggest difference is when the decision was made, Thomas Jefferson laid out 39 specific charges against the crown, and then the signers pledged to each other their lives, fortunes and honor, knowing if they lost they had committed treason, and were willing to give their lives if necessary.

    Are you?

    There is nothing innocent, cute, funny or "symbolic" in such a request to secede. Unless you have that same conviction as those in 1776 it's nothing more than a disgusting fantasy that dishonors those who created this nation.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:37 a.m.

    This irrational reaction is nothing more than people listening too much to people on the radio. There will be no secession even Justice Scalia has made that clear. These unhappy souls do have the right to seek happiness elsewhere. I hear Canada has offered up Nunofit for settlement.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:35 a.m.

    Broken Record Mountanman.

    Roads, police, fire, schools, defense etc are provided by governments and are funded by taxes.

    People can and often DO disagree with how the money is spent.
    But, it is undeniable that both R AND D legislators have been doing it for decades.
    And the current administration, Obama included, is running the country just like his predecessors.

    Where was the backlash under Bush, or Reagan for that matter?

    Taxes are lower under Obama than under Bush or Reagan. Why are you not commending him? Or, at a minimum, recognize that he is better in this regard than his predecessors.

    Partisan politics perhaps?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:33 a.m.

    One more point: If I steal your money year after year and I get angry with you because you disagree with me about my "right" to steal your money, would you keep trying to earn money? Would you eventually say, why should I keep investing, working hard and creating wealth, it does no good? That about sums up where we are in America today!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:19 a.m.

    The succession idea is a symbolic protest of our morally bankrupt government who steals money from those who EARN it and redistributes it to those who don't! For those of you who believe the government has a moral right to confiscate other people's property and re-distribute it, consider this: if I steal YOUR money am I a crook? Should I go to jail? What if I steal your money but I "redistribute" your money to people I think deserve it more than you? What if many of your neighbors agree that they deserve to receive what you have earned more than you do? Get it now?

  • Tulip West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 7:06 a.m.

    All the programs you allude to will likely suffer if not vanish anyway if we continue on this path of "ridiculous" fiscal irresponsibility. Though I don't personally believe in seceding, I surely understand the mentality many are feeling. The present administration is not serious about cleaning up the "mess" and those who do put serious ideas on the table are mocked, scorned, and tossed aside as uncaring and bigoted. America is in never before. People are simply trying to escape a disaster and seek a better future for their families.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 21, 2012 6:34 a.m.

    And this can all be blamed on Obama.

    He has made the radical decision to promote the same or similar policies and ideas that have been championed by both R and D presidents for years.

    The nerve.

  • Black Knight American Fork, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 5:47 a.m.

    In addition, seniors would lose their social security and medicare.