John Florez: After election, politicians realize the face of America has changed

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  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    Nov. 19, 2012 11:49 a.m.

    all who favor illegals, (what ever their color may be)
    I've recently fallen on hard times. I wonder if you have it in your heart to allow my family of seven kids move in with you. We will need three meals a day plus some snacks, medical treatment, education, a car or two, and a TV to keep us entertained because we don't have anything else to do. You surely have more than you really need and would be able to support us. Thanks in advance.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Nov. 19, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    Pro-illegal groups have done nothing to stop parents from bringing children here, or telling them so they can prepare when adults, to get legal. They prefer to turn a blind eye, then plead for compassion to get cheap labor.

    Living in the shadows, it's impossible to not know in this day and age.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Nov. 19, 2012 5:55 a.m.

    Married or not, she would of been given a social security number when it was started, based on her birth certificate. (people born before social security had reduced payments, age (birth) verification was needed)

    Should we reward these adults for their parents illegal actions? Once they become adults (18)they can straighten things out on their own.

    Knowing children that lived here illegally, it's impossible for children not to know in their mid teens.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:40 p.m.

    @RRB - We're accustomed to the paperwork you refer to - it's part and parcel of our world. Record keeping has improved a lot in the last century.

    My great aunt arrived here in 1909. She was a married woman before there were social security numbers. Since the family house had burned down, she reasonably believed her birth certificate was lost in the fire. She had a driver's license and school records and a marriage certificate. She thought she was a citizen and no one had reason to suspect she wasn't. One day someone actually researched the paperwork and realized she had been born in England and no, she hadn't ever officially become a citizen.

    These things happen all the time, even today. Do we punish young people because they're parents haven't told them truth? Should we?

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 9:35 p.m.

    "Telling a political party that if they don't ignore the laws of the land, they won't vote for them amounts to blackmail."

    Democrats will do anything, including blackmail, to get elected. That's their MO. Republicans have morals which prohibit them from such conduct. Unfortunately, Republicans will have to change and become more like Democrats is they hope to win another election.

    "With 80% of our illegal population, it's a good reason to never give amnesty, as it would upset our political balance."

    Amnesty should not be given to illegals unless they come out of the bushes and get in line. I suppose they will have to be allowed to live here for the rest of their lives. But they shouldn't get amnesty or citizenship. And another thing... we should stop issuing visas to individuals in Hispanic communities. We've emigrated enough of that particular ethnic group. We need to be fair to other peoples of the world who wish to come here to make their homes.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 1:05 p.m.

    If Latino's had voted in the past for a Republican President, they might have a case.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 11:21 a.m.

    Prior to the election Rove collected 300 Million, he knew of impending loss, but just wanted money.

    Nov. 18, 2012 7:22 a.m.

    I question how she was able to do things for over 80 years without a birth certificate? Enrolling in school, taxes, social security, medicare, drivers license etc. Her and her husband needed to show their social security numbers to file taxes. Something sounds off.

    There are current laws that allow children brought here illegally a chance to become legal. Returning home for a short stay and coming back on work visas, school visas etc. is already available. So yes, if they did not follow the law they are just as illegal as their parents.

    I see more justification for breaking the law and dishonesty here, and then name calling of those who want the laws enforced.

    Telling a political party that if they don't ignore the laws of the land, they won't vote for them amounts to blackmail. With 80% of our illegal population, it's a good reason to never give amnesty, as it would upset our political balance.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 7:41 p.m.

    I knew a woman who was raised here, got an education, got married, raised a family, was married for many decades; as far as I know she had a driver's license and voted. When her husband died, she needed to do some paperwork and had to provide legal documents. She discovered she'd never become a citizen. Her parents, my great grandparents, brought my great aunt to the US from England when was less than year old. She'd never known any other life. She never knew she wasn't a citizen. Suddenly, in her 80s she found out she wasn't.

    Was she a criminal? She was not a legal resident of the US. Should she have been deported from the only home she had ever known? There are lots of young people in the same position. Should they be deported? I'm not pretending the issues are easy but should we punish people for their parents' crimes?

  • The Skeptical Chymist SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 5:20 p.m.

    Just keep spouting the attitudes represented by these comments, Republicans. You'll continue to lose the White House and the Senate. You'll keep the House for a while, due to the 2010 gerrymander, but you'll just keep losing the statewide and national offices.

    Adapt to changing demographics, or go the way of the Whigs. That's the lesson from this election. Few in your party seem to recognize it.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    What is an "oath"? An oath is the most sacred statement that we can make before God. Presumably, we would die before breaking our oath. God told us that though the heavens and the earth would pass away, his WORD would not pass away.

    Obama broke his OATH before 330,000,000 Americans to uphold the laws of the United States.

    Obedience is the first law. Before we can be forgiven for our imperfections, we make a covenant with God through baptism that we will keep the laws given to us by his Son. Obedience comes before mercy. Christ offers mercy to those who are obedient, even to those who were previously disobedient. He offers that mercy AFTER they have done everything that they can do to correct their mistake.

    Illegal aliens who remain in America have not done EVERYTHING that they can do to correct their mistake. They have not left America. The law of mercy does not apply until the law of obedience has been fulfilled.

    Obama has nothing to do with our personal obedience. "We believe that man will be punished for his own sins . . . ". Obama cannot legislate. He cannot change the law.

  • Mr. Bean Ogden, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 4:10 p.m.

    @Mike Richards:

    "Are you going to let Obama be your conscience?"

    I wouldn't-a let him be my president if I had my way... but he is.

    "He can live his life according to his own desires."

    That, and he can managing this countries immigration policies as he desires, regardless of what the laws say about it. And we can see that he is doing just that.

    "I will not exchange honesty for votes."

    Obama did not exchange honesty for votes. He truly believes in amnesty/citizenship for law-breaking immigrants. After all, he is an immigrant himself.

    "I know that entering another country without the permission of that country is illegal."

    You probably know that exceeding the speed limit on the freeway is illegal as well. Are you guilty, I ask you?

    "I know that overextending my visa in another country is illegal."

    Well then, don't do it. And encourage your Hispanic friends (if such you have) to not do it as well.

    "Everyone is responsible for his own actions - not for Obama's lack of action."

    I guess I don't get where you're going with your entire post. Sorry.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 17, 2012 3:33 p.m.

    Mr. Bean,

    Are you going to let Obama be your conscience? I am not. He can live his life according to his own desires. I will not sell my integrity to the highest bidder. I will not exchange honesty for votes. God will not judge me for Obama's actions, but He will judge me for what I did with the knowledge and the opportunities that I had.

    I know that entering another country without the permission of that country is illegal. I know that overextending my visa in another country is illegal. I know that working in another country without permission from the government of that country is illegal. I don't need Obama to spell out the rules for my conduct. I'm sufficiently educated to find those things out for myself.

    Everyone is. Everyone is responsible for his own actions - not for Obama's lack of action. Each of us will have enough to answer for without compounding that by blaming Obama or anyone else for our personal rebellion against law.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 2:53 p.m.

    If a bank robber complained about the lack of opportunities in America, what would we say? Would we wring our hands? Would we complain about the lack of opportunity for bank robers, or would we call the authorities and have them DO THIER JOB?

    Entering this country illegally is a crime. A criminal has no inherent rights.

    It doesn't matter the nationality of the illegal alien. It doesn't matter that the illegal alien has a friend who writes articles for a newspaper. Illegal is illegal. Address that first and then worry about any minor problems later.

    The first law of heaven is obedience - not mercy. Christ offers mercy after people agree to be obedient.

  • Mr. Bean Ogden, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 2:21 p.m.

    @Mike Richards:
    "When rules are broken, those who come here illegally hurt themselves."

    Do tell... With Obama in the White House illegal immigrants rule... Obama illegally gave two years amnesty to illegals under 30 years old, with a tacit promise to extend it to permanent amnesty and/or citizenship. All for the Hispanic vote in the last election. Democrats seem to know how to harvest votes. And there's such an abundance of Hispanics in this country already that, in order to win an election, a politician must cow-tow to the Hispanic population. Romney didn't... he lost.

    "Fixing the problem is simple. Abide by the rules."

    Tell that to Obama who broke the rules (laws). How can we expect to have law abiding people when our own president breaks them...? Which is a felony, by the way.

    "Wait until invited before entering this country."

    Therein lies part of the problem... fully 40 percent of illegals come here on visas but don't leave when their visas expire.

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 1:47 p.m.

    Finally I read solid piece on changing demographics in America by a Republican and what follows is the same old tripe from many of the posts. Let me guess...Florez is a RINO! Right? They ignore the reality that none of these folks would be here if there weren't plenty of people willing to employ them.

    Talk reality here! Spouting platitudes accomplishes nothing. They are here! So now what are your solutions? Self deportation is a no sale. We don't have enough cops or money to send them all back so now what?? Hey wait! Maybe we can put up a fence on the southern border of Utah. Yah, that would keep them out.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 17, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    There are rules to protect the people COMING to America. Immigrants have to qualify. Most have to be sponsored. Those sponsors are responsible to help the newcomers learn how things work and to learn THEIR responsibility as visitors and as eventual citizens.

    When rules are broken, those who come here illegally hurt themselves. They can't get a legal job, so they get illegal jobs. Who offers illegal jobs? Criminals offer illegal jobs. Those here illegally can't get help from the government. They can't complain to the police. Many are ill-prepared for anything but the most menial job available. They can't afford the education to better themselves because they can't work at a legal job. The cycle continues.

    Fixing the problem is simple. Abide by the rules. Wait until invited before entering this country. Be prepared with schooling and training to offer employers something of value so that you can receive a valuable salary.

    Hard HONEST work can work miracles, but hiding from authorities because you're here illegally will never work.

    America welcomes those who enter legally. Others, who break our laws, can expect no sympathy.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    "The 'Latino issue' is simple: Foreign cultures are supposed to assimilate to THIS culture and adopt ITS values, meaning the values upon which THIS country was built -- not the other way around."

    Yes but... If they are allowed to move in in droves as they are now doing, stay here, and are given amnesty they begin to control not only our elections but soceity as well. For example, as I flip through my TV channels I have to flip through more and more Hispanic speaking channels. Get ready folks, Latinos are here to stay and are gradually taking over.

    Nov. 17, 2012 11:14 a.m.

    Truthseeker, Latino's are not the only people trying to improve their life for their family. It's not the culture but the person. They are not the only food harvesters, maids or construction workers. Not all Latino's work in these fields. This seems more like A poor justification to break laws by claiming that one group is better than another.

    Immigration laws are not set up to please those immigrating here, they are to benefit the country and it's people.

    People wanting laws enforced are not the ugly underbelly. If they said the pro-illegal groups were the ugly underbelly, their comment would not be approved.

    It's time to stop trying to divert the discussion, and talk about the law breaking, and how to best stop it.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 10:53 a.m.

    Many citizens probably don't realize that the small business groups actually fund BOTH SIDES of this issue and shovel money to opposing candidates in order to keep the various factions fighting over this issue.

    They WANT both sides (amnesty vs. enforcement) to actually do nothing.

    Amnesty would mean, in many cases, that the unethical employers would be FORCED to pay at least minimum wage. MANY of them don't currently. Many unethical employers also cheat the illegal immigrants that they do hire out of their wages in some way, (i.e. they "broke" something during the day, etc.)

    The current situation benefits ONLY one group; unethical employers.

    Even if "new" laws are passed regarding immigration - I don't have much confidence that they would be enforced.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 17, 2012 9:49 a.m.

    Don't tell me Latinos aren't hardworkers trying to get ahead and provide a better life for their families. Every meal you eat likely comes from the effort of a laborer bent over, working many hours in 100 degree temperatures harvesting your food. They also pick up your dirty towels and garbage you leave behind when you go on vacation. Most likely the beams and drywall in your house were put there by immigrants.

    They're not "assimilating" you say? How many first generation Italians, Chinese etc. spoke english after immigrating to the U.S.? There were many parts of our cities across the U.S. at the turn of the century where little english was spoken. Subsequent generations do become fluent and assimilate, bringing flavors of their heritage.

    Every time Deseret News prints an article on immigrants an ugly underbelly is revealed by the commentors.. I would like to see a well-researched and thorough article on the mechanics, restrictions, process etc. of what it takes to become a legal immigrant in the U.S. i would like to see facts and figures on how many apply and what percentage are successful.

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 8:21 a.m.

    Once again, Florez has spouted left-wing dogma that has absolutely no basis in fact. The DNews should be ashamed of itself for printing such biased nonsense.

    Since when has becoming a nation of lawbreakers been in the interest of any country? And yet, that is was Florez proposes. He advocates wholesale disregard for the immigration laws, both on the part of illegal immigrants and on the part of the government. He conveniently ignores the fact that disregard for the law in one area inevitably leads to disregard for the law in all other areas. That is why every study ever conducted has show that illegal aliens commit crimes at a far higher rate that the citizen population.

    Florez also ignores the fact that we are not living in the 1700s or eary 1800s when land and resources were almost unlimited. They are severely limited now, just like tax dollars and government resources are. Every illegal alien who enters this Country takes up those resources, leaving less for the citizens who lawfully belong here. That is irrefutable fact.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Nov. 17, 2012 8:16 a.m.

    The Republicans should become the party of a hand-up rather than a hand-out. I.e. fight poverty without automatically resorting to spending more money. As it is the Democrats are the party of a hand-out and the Republicans are the party of "Not a hand-out".

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 8:08 a.m.

    In any immigration debate we need to keep in mind the prime beneficiary of illegal immigration, Corporate America. They have always supported high levels of immigration, both legal and illegal, because it depresses their labor costs. There was a reason that George W Bush and John McCain backed an "amnesty bill", it was what the corporate wing of the Republican party wanted.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Nov. 17, 2012 7:16 a.m.

    No one beleives in charity with someone elses property or illegal immigration. Most people don't. Politicans buy votes promising what is not theres to give.

    Nov. 17, 2012 6:53 a.m.

    Latino's have never voted for a Republican President. They repaid Reagan by never voting for his party. Our "outdated" laws were written in 1996.

    How does a three percent rise in Latino votes justify ignoring our immigration laws? We need a leader brave enough to enforce our laws, something that has not happened for decades.

    Gallop shows America still wants deportation.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 5:49 a.m.

    You made a case for the positive benefits of immigration Mr Florez. But we don't have to use theories- we have case studies now we can examine. E.g. in California the percentage of "non-hispanic" whites in 1970 was 78% while the Hispanic population was 10%. In 2010 the percentages had changed to 40% of each group. Can you make the case that California has benefited from these changing demographics? In what way? Is the State more fiscally sound? Is it a better place to do business? Is the middle class growing or shrinking? Is there a smaller or larger dependency class?
    Mass immigration worked in the late 1800's and early 1900's because people weren't immigrating into a welfare state. Now people come here with no desire to become Americans but simply to retain their own culture and to "live off the fat of the land". It will utterly fail.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2012 4:51 a.m.

    This editorial is a pack of distortions, half-truths, and lies.

    It falsely implies that non-Latino Americans are deficient in such human sentiments as compassion and a commitment to justice.

    The truth is that those who oppose enforcement of immigration law, and favor preferential treatment for persons who have demonstrated disrespect for this country and its laws, are the ones deficient in these qualities. Once again we see no sympathy whatsoever from Mr. Florez for the numerous victims of illegal immigration -- America's jobless, foreclosed upon, and identity-bereft. And rewarding illegality obviously is unjust on its face. It is an insult to legal immigrants to imply that illegal immigrants are deserving of our respect. John 10:1.

    The implication obviously being advanced by the author -- that the rule of law is "outdated" -- is a lie and an anti-American lie at that. A desire to be "free from tyranny" requires respect for the rule of law -- something illegal immigrants, and Mr. Florez, apparently do not have.

    The "Latino issue" is simple: Foreign cultures are supposed to assimilate to THIS culture and adopt ITS values, meaning the values upon which THIS country was built -- not the other way around.