If problems aren't challenged, we might have had last fair election

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  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 19, 2012 3:24 p.m.

    It seems someone has fogotten their tin-foiled hat....

    When reality smacks one's beliefs one of 2 things can happen:

    A. You change your mind and accept reality
    B. Ignore the warning, keep thinking unrealistically, and invent one Conspiracy Theory after another to support your unreal view of reality.

    Good Luck.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Nov. 19, 2012 12:02 p.m.

    @Anti Bush-Obama

    Your comment is 100% correct.

    When Bush won in 2000 and 2004, Democrats all over the place were screaming, "Voter Fraud! Voter Fraud!"

    Several documentaries and websites were even created as a way to "prove" these elections were rigged. One article for example, written by Robert Kennedy Jr. claimed there were over 250,000 phony votes for Bush, although his proof was more anecdotal than anything else.

    When Obama when in 2008, Republicans screamed, "Voter fraud! Voter fraud!"

    The fact of the matter is, if Romney had won, many of the same people who are now telling Republicans, "You lost, get over it," would instead be screaming, "Voter fraud! Voter fraud!"

    Former DNC head Howard Dean even said on MSNBC the day before the election, "If Obama looses, it can only be because of voter fraud."

    I voted for Romney, he lost, I accept it.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 19, 2012 10:44 a.m.

    So in the minds of their deluded supporters, voter fraud is only voter fraud if the guy you don't vote for does it? Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 19, 2012 10:42 a.m.

    Voter fraud has gone on for at least the last 3 elections. What really scares me is that people are going to support their candidate no matter what they do. This type of loyalty scares me.

    I'm convinced that Obama or Bush could've won an election if either one of them used the declaration of independence as toilet paper on national television. Heaven help us.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Nov. 19, 2012 8:33 a.m.

    It's not just the Republicans, look at Gore.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 19, 2012 5:54 a.m.

    So, let me understand.

    Romney lost the presidential election because of voter fraud. That is the premise of this letter?

    If the GOP decides to focus on THAT, rather than looking at the possibilities that they are appealing to less voters, it will be a long hard road ahead.

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    Nov. 19, 2012 12:16 a.m.

    Serious question D News: what is the criteria for getting a letter published? You lose any remaining cred by printing stuff like this. Unless your purpose is to embarrass and expose the uninformed.

  • Cincinnatus Kearns, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:08 p.m.

    DougS, both your letter and defense of it were kind of funny.

    Are you really stating that there was no voting fraud prior to computers? That's funny. Dead people have been voting for over 100 years. Political machines in large cities around the country openly pressured voters at polling places. Paper ballots were "lost" or destroyed by one side or the other.

    If there was such rampant voter fraud during this last election, that Romney should have won instead of Obama, don't you think Fox News (among others) would be screaming it during every broadcast. Not to mention the Romney team and GOP would be filing lawsuits right and left?

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 9:47 p.m.

    Ah, yes, that hardy perennial: voter fraud. A wildly nasty innuendo without a shred of evidence to support it.
    But I'll tell you what did happen. Water flouridation. Strong teeth equal Democratic voters.
    I'll tell you something else: Every single Republican who voted for Abraham Lincoln is now . . . dead. Every. Single. One.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 7:57 p.m.

    Too funny Salsa Libre :)

  • Salsa Libre Provo, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 7:17 p.m.

    CHS 85 Sandy, UT

    Yes, it must be fraudulent voters voting in the places you cite. Otherwise, Obama should not have received any votes. Since only "real Americans" live in Madison County, Idaho, and Piute County, Utah, it must be fraud! We all know who the "real Americans" are and they don't vote Democratic.

    Perhaps it was people sneaking in from California to vote (using forged driver's licenses after filing false addresses during voter registration in those communities) and helping to steal the election just as they did in Ohio, Virginia, Pennslyvania, and Wisconsin.

    But it must have been the "gift" of jobs that won in Michigan.

    It is a well-known fact that people who live in California are socialists and moral deviants. They have all that Hollywood money to travel around the country and distort the vote all these states. Certainly, the will of the people cannot be properly expressed if you let all registered voters vote.

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 7:00 p.m.

    Voter fraud. The persistant Republican straw man. Such a sham to use this deceit to institute wide-scale voter disenfranchisment through voter suppression legislation.

    Republicans would rather disallow any vote which was not for their candidate and be done with it.

    Now comes the accusation abou the 47% on the government dole and those minorities and young people who want "gifts". All sour grapes because an election that was considered a given turned out to be wrong.

    And the Republican answer to their defeat? Suppress more votes.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 3:56 p.m.

    Well, I'm going to allege voter fraud in Madison County, Idaho. Mind you, I have no acual proof, but how can a county that cast over 14,500 votes on have 5.3% vote for President Obama? Does that make sense to you? How about Piute County, Utah that only cast 74 votes for President Obama? There must be something nefarius going on there. After all, if you can't win, just claim the other side cheated - hundreds of thousands of times.

    Oh, and nothing fishy happens with paper ballots? Are you serious?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 18, 2012 3:36 p.m.


    From the Philadelphia Inquirer:

    "Still, was there not one contrarian voter in those 59 divisions, where unofficial vote tallies have President Obama outscoring Romney by a combined 19,605 to 0?

    The unanimous support for Obama in these Philadelphia neighborhoods - clustered in almost exclusively black sections of West and North Philadelphia - fertilizes fears of fraud, despite little hard evidence.

    Larry Sabato, a political scientist at the University of Virginia who has studied African American precincts, said he had occasionally seen 100 percent of the vote go for the Democratic candidate. Chicago and Atlanta each had precincts that registered no votes for Republican Sen. John McCain in 2008.

    "I'd be surprised if there weren't a handful of precincts that didn't cast a vote for Romney," he said. But the number of zero precincts in Philadelphia deserves examination, Sabato added.

    "Not a single vote for Romney or even an error? That's worth looking into," he said.

    The absence of a voter-ID law, however, would not stop anyone from voting for a Republican candidate."

  • DougS Oakley, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 3:28 p.m.

    To respond to comments made about my letter... Our last fair election was before computers, with votes on paoper and there to be counted, re-counted, and verified. A programmer has testified on how easy it is to program a computer to tally false information.
    ln the city of Philidelphia, there were 60K plus votes tallied for Obama, 0 for Romney.. does that ring true? Of course, the GOP poll workers were evicted from their jobs and PA has no voter ID requirement...

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 2:36 p.m.

    "In a county in Florida 175,500 residents were registered to vote. But when results came in that night, officials counted more than 247,383 votes. voters had submitted their long ballots on two separate voting cards. Each card had been counted once, meaning many of the votes were double counted."

    Ha ha ha, seriously? This lil weird conspiracy theory was destroyed a good week ago. Of course, your conservative blog must have forgotten to mention the outcome.

    Each voting had 2 pages, one for the Presidential election the 2nd for the local stuff. In many places, these ballots were counted as twice hence resulting in the 175k residents and 247k votes. The problem has since been corrected and it wouldn't have changed the election outcome. Romney would still have lost. Sorry!

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 2:02 p.m.

    Voter fraud was rampant... everywhere...

    I looked it up on Drudge as well as other R-wing blogs.

  • Danite Boy SANDY, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 1:26 p.m.

    The Deseret News does a great disservice to our country and to civil discourse by printing a letter that propogates this kind of unsupported falsehood. The Columbus Dispatch ran an article today listing the actual statistics for the Wood County, Ohio, the county that some of the right-wing websites or emails chains allege had more votes for Obama than registered voters. There were actually 61,967 ballots cast in Wood county, 31,596 of them for President Obama, and 28,997 for Mitt Romney.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 12:58 p.m.

    There were many instances of voter fraud. Most was ignored by the print media. 59 Philadelphia voting divisions had no votes for Romney, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. And over 500 complaints were made over the votes by people trying to vote. Some were getting error messages when a vote for Romey was cast, some voted for Romney and Obama was given the vote.

    Lots of complaints about more votes than people registered in several states.

    In a county in Florida 175,500 residents were registered to vote. But when results came in that night, officials counted more than 247,383 votes. voters had submitted their long ballots on two separate voting cards. Each card had been counted once, meaning many of the votes were double counted.

    After 2000, it's time we demand voter id laws nationally. If the media had reported all the complaints, would there have been rioting in the streets? People didn't believe Watergate either. They said it was the work of conspiracy nuts.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 11:18 a.m.

    There were also reports of vote flipping from Obama to Romney, reports of a Republican voting in two different precincts, reports of Democratic voter registrations destroyed or changed by Republicans, the Ohio Sec. of State defying court orders and the list goes on....

    I share your concern about the integrity of our elections. Irregularities and fraud should be investigated. According to Stephen Spoonamore, cyber-security expert, (and Republican) says all voting should be done using paper ballots. No voting should be done without a paper trail. He believes voting machines are too susceptible to tampering and no corporation should be involved in the voting process.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 11:14 a.m.

    The facts never got in Romney's way either. There is a segment wrapped up in media frenzy, denial and religious fervor that actually will never accept the election fact that it was a clear, convincing total loss.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 11:00 a.m.

    Most States that had voting issues were red States where Republicans purposely changed the rules. Shorter poll hours, less early voter time and restrictive (and overturned by the courts) voter id laws. All put in place by Republicans. Still, the peoples choice won. Please turn off FOX news and get out more.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:59 a.m.

    Dear DN,

    If I write a letter about the little green people that flew here from Mars and voted for Obama, will you publish that too?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    What voter fraud?

    Not even Fox News nor any of the radio talk show nuts have made any such claims.

    May we see some solid evidence to back your wildly untruthful claims?

  • Henderson Orem, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:38 a.m.

    Soooooooooo in Doug's view, Mitt Romney really, in fact, did win the election?


    A few cases of voter fraud is always going to be the case. There has never been a 100 percent clean and pure election.

    But to consider it really much of an issue would have to take maybe over 3 million cases of voter fraud to tip the scales in Mitt's favor. Then Doug might have a point.

    But a few cases of voter fraud is to be expected. We are, after all, all humans.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    Wo what Doug is alleging is the following:

    In Ohio, there were at least 103,481 fraudulent votes
    In Florida, there were at least 73,189 fraudulent votes
    In Colorado, there were at least 113,019 fraudulent votes
    In Virginia, there were at least 115,910 fraudulent votes
    In Wisconsin, there were at least 205,264 fraudulent votes

    and just for fun, in California, there were 2,291,707 fraudulent votes

    That's quite a conspiracy. In all my readings about "fraudulent activity" during this "unfair" election, I haven't come across this many anecdotes.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:03 a.m.

    nice list of general accusations doug. the same list that appears after every election and the same list that is always disproved by investigations into the supposed fraud. there have been less then 10 cases of fraud (less then ten votes total) proven over the past four election cycles. Now if you have some specific evidence that proves any of your claims then lets see it.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 18, 2012 10:00 a.m.

    I don't know where Doug's information comes from, but, if proven to be true, he would have the scoop of the year, and everyone from Mitt to the RNC to Karl Rove to John McCain, Sarah Palin and Jason Chaffetz would be screaming about it every day. I don't hear them, and would instead remind Doug that Obama got over 60 MORE electoral votes than he needed to win the election.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Nov. 18, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    your list is a nice list of conspiracies where is the actual evidence that these things happened? The far right seems to have a problem unerstanind that claiming something specific happened is not the same as proof that it happened.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 9:01 a.m.

    Doug says: “If these things go unchallenged, we may have had our last, reasonably fair election.”

    My question for Doug is: When was that last reasonable fair election?

    If we limit the choices to the federal government elections, was it before the time of redistricting by the party in power to provide an edge for their candidate? Was it before the corporations dominated state and local governments?

    Perhaps Doug is using the conservative republican definition of the word fair. That’s the one that defines fair election as being one in which the conservative republican wins.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Nov. 18, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    Doesn't the DN require that its' letters have at least a shred of proof behind them before they're published?

    Keep spinning all the conspiracy theories you like, but it doesn't change the facts. Obama won, and Romney lost. Get over it.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 18, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    Sour grapes much? I agree we need to get the election process out of the clockwork machine age, but it's been a long time since we've had a 'fair' election. Remember hanging chads? The mess that got us into?