Elections have consequences! And those that Voted for Obama should enjoy the
Fiscal cliff we are going to go over! Congress should zero! Not a dang blasted
thing till Jan of 2016. Let Obama and his 47% enjoy and sleep in the bed they
made for America.
Everyone who pays income tax - and "some who don't"?? I am guessing
that the majority of the typical Obama voters (the Cleveland lady screaming
about her new Obama phone) don't pay ANY taxes and know more about RAP and
HOP HOP than they do some Fiscal cliff !! Obama gonna take care of us man....
I will make a bumper sticker that says "Don't blame me I voted for
I keep hearing about paying their fair share. What is the millionaires fair
share? when they have multiple homes, who maitains and cleans those homes?
Don't they pay someone to do so? they pay taxes on those properties as
well. Most contribute to charities and their local communities.Business
and corporations do not pay taxes their customers pay it through higher prices,
who are those customers? (you and me) President Obama promised he would not
increase taxes on the low and middle income people, yet the only way the
"Affordable care act" passed the supreme court is they could not hinder
governments ability to tax. So Obama care is a tax on all.And those that
say the Bush tax cuts were ment to be temporary. Research the sales tax, it was
only suposed to be to help finance that one war and then recended. good one
govenment give up money? they say they cut taxes but they then cut a deduction
to make up the difference.
Counter Intelligence,Who is being passive-aggressive? I flat out called
your comment intellectually impoverished. That's pretty direct. Playing the
victim? Conservatives have been doing that wonderfully since the election,
skulking about blaming anyone they can for their loss, acting as if the world
has betrayed them and now the country is going to come crashing down around
them. The media, the liberals, half of America, you name it, they are all to
blame. Poor martyrs. One thing is for certain, though: I don't feel
victimized by conservatives. That's giving yourself far too much credit.
Grundle,Go ahead and simplify it any way that makes you feel
comfortable. By your definition the Republican Party isn't a great leader
right now either, are they? Just lost the presidential election to an incumbent
during a poor economy, didn't they? Nice leadership there. VST,You are right. This is futile and I am contributing little by doing
this. It's a selfish motivation, really. A way to vent my irritation and
yet end up more irritated. As before, I will grow tired of it eventually and go
away for awhile.
All who think the liberal lovers who voted for 4 more years should bear the vast
majority of the burden of the 'cliff'. All in favor type I ... I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I ...Enough Said!!!
Re:WorfI think we are coming from the same place here...Re:EmajorSo...What you are saying is that Pres. Obama is a great
leader if he could only get people to follow?
Letting tax cuts expire is NOT a tax increase. Wasn't the
United States in a better financial condition BEFORE the Bush Tax cut and the
Social Security Tax cut of the Obama administration?
I would be quite happy to pay more taxes if: 1. The taxes went to deficit
reduction and 2. Someone was minding the store to prevent government waste and
corruption. So far I have no indication that either will happen.
Bring on the tax hikes... and wait till you see the Obomacare bill your going to
get on top of that! Happy Daze are coming!!
@There You Go AgainSaint George, UT"...The bleak scenario
could push the White House and Congress to reach a deal...".Why
does it always take a bleak scenario for elected representatives to do their
job?Why do we keep electing the same Congressional folks (with some
minor rearrangement of the deck chairs) yet expect different results?"I concur. Why did we elect the same failed president and expect any
different results. I say "we" elected him because we are all Americans.
"I" voted for the other guy.
I pay 7% tithing.
JoeBlow posted:Now that the election is over, I hope the Mr Romney will
reveal his plan to cut taxes, raise defense spending and reduce the deficit.Me: It would be a bit like Einstein trying to explain his mental
process to come up with his advance theory's in mathematics. Mitt was able
to intellectually crunch numbers and come up with a solution. Until he had
became President and could have access to ALL data he felt he needed, he
wasn't going to lie and bribe folks for votes. He simple stated,
trust me, I know I can do it, take it or leave it. We know the answer to that.
Mitt can't prove he can do it now.
For every % of taxes increased on anyone, an equal number of entitlement
spending cuts.If any taxes increase, than have a $100 minimum tax on
every person 18 and older. No freeloaders. No more paying NO taxes AND getting a
refund.For every day Congress (House and Senate) fail to have a
budget, they each get penalized $10,000.Before an increase in ANY
government benefit, the debt must be paid off in full.As for
Defense, return spending to Pre-Iraq War levels.
Look folks.Raising taxes on the rich is a DENT.Tweaking SS is
a DENT.Reforming medicare and medicaid is a big DENT.Reducing
defense spending is a DENT.So, quit excluding things that only make
a DENT.All the DENTS will add up to some real money.The
term "its only a dent" is code for "dont touch MINE"Dont expect the poor and old to sacrifice if cant DENT the rich a bit.
@EmajorPlease don't give me the "I am a victim of the evil
Conservative" melodrama when it was a direct quote from a leftistI would like to say that blaming others for noticing something silly said by a
left-winger is a "new intellectual low" - but in reality, is its fairly
common place.I am not a conservative as much as I tire of left-wing
passive/aggression - such as what you just did.All you proved is
that the left plays victim even when it is their own stuff that stinks.
To: There You Go AgainRe: Why do we keep electing the same Congressional
folks (with some minor rearrangement of the deck chairs) yet expect different
results?The American Electorate is horribly uninformed. This comes
mainly from the whitewash from our Liberal Media. Case in point--Benghazi. Had
a Republican been been in office while that happened we would have seen/heard
nothing but railing accusation from 9/11/12 until the last ballot was cast
11/6/12.Another reason is because of apathy. I was amazed to see
individuals admit that they did a couple hours of research on the presidential
candidates before casting their votes. Really? And some I talked to "just
don't do politics". Sad. Sad. Sad.But payday is right
around the corner.... hope you have your food storage.
Here's something to think about, what does a trillion dollars really mean?
If I made 1 million dollars a day starting at the birth of Christ, as of today I
would still be $265 billion dollars short. I don't think raising the tax
on all those earning $250,000 would make a dent in the federal deficit. The
only way to reduce the deficit is to reduce spending and lower our expectations
on what the government should do for us.Even if we taxed those who
make over $250k at 100% it wouldn't make a difference other than those who
made of $250K and saw it taxed away would have no incentive the following year
to do anything.
"...The bleak scenario could push the White House and Congress to reach a
deal...".Why does it always take a bleak scenario for elected
representatives to do their job?Why do we keep electing the same
Congressional folks (with some minor rearrangement of the deck chairs) yet
expect different results?
From the above comments, it is obvious the Republicans have recovered from the
2012 election with vigor, resolve and (of course) denial. I so look forward to
the next four years of stonewalling, bizarre accusations from Donald Trump and
predictions of disaster from the "patriotic" Right.
Counter Intelligence,Thanks for proving my prior accusation that
conservative commenters on this article have sunk to a new intellectual low.
It's like I asked a genie in a bottle for a prime example and -poof- your
comment shows up!
killpack,Are you serious? If the president tries in earnest to forge a
compromise but is unable to do so because Congress is completely incompetent,
partisan, and unwilling to yield, then it is all his fault? Congress isn't
a piece of machinery in which the right sequence of buttons and knobs must be
pushed & turned to get a desired result*. They can choose to come to the
table here and make rational decisions. You can't all lump it up to user
error. If Obama is too unyielding and demonstrates poor negotiation skills,
etc., then you will have a decent argument. I've never seen
someone defend Congress's incompetence and low approval ratings like you
just did. Amazing. *Well actually, there is a sequence.
It's called Money.
"Us liberals: We are so dumb. All we want are handouts. We are all lumped
together if we vote for Obama."You said it
Emajor,Obama was not forced at gunpoint to take a second term. He
wanted it. He campaigned FIERCELY to obtain it. If he fails to live up to the
task, only he is to blame, not Congress. Congress already is the most hated body
in this country. They cannot be more disliked. However, if Obama fails to
deliver on his very grand promises, and take charge and lead the sheep of the
Congress to financial solvency, only he can be blamed.
Once I read the title of this article, I knew there would be some predictable
and childish knee-jerk conservative comments. I also figured most of these
people wouldn't actually read the article and understand that both sides
brought this issue on as a game of chicken to see who would flinch and yield on
the budget. Neither side did, so now we head toward the cliff. Both Obama and
Demos & Repubs in Congress need to compromise if they want to avoid this.
Then I read the comments. Congrats, conservatives, you have set a
new intellectual low! You people are so bitter and angry over the election that
you cannot even take the time and effort to read a simple 3 page article to gain
some understanding of the issue. It's right there on page 3!: "Congress
and the Obama administration agreed last year that these cuts would kick in if a
congressional panel couldn't agree on a deficit-reduction plan". But you guys desperately need a platform from which to vent your bruised
political spleen, so go ahead and fire away, blame Obama for the fiscal cliff.
Obama's tax revenues are needed to fund Obamacare. The deficit is the last
of his concerns... despite what he's said.
Open up and say ahhhhhh.Cause your about to be given much nasty caugh
medicine.The world is going to be very different.But, we can still
be happy.Just get rid of those bills.
@Riverton Cougar"You mention that Romney would raise taxes on
middle-income earners. Obama mentioned this in his booklet of fluff, citing the
Tax Policy Center as his source. I went to that source and found that
Romney's tax plan were lower in EVERY bracket than Obama's! Why would
Obama lie like that?"Obama's claim was that Romney had two
options if he really was going to pay for his across the board tax cuts by
closing loopholes since it can't be done by closing loopholes only on the
rich. Option 1 is increasing taxes on the middle class. Option 2 is not paying
for his tax cuts and adding it to the deficit. "It surprises me
that Obama professes to be a Christian yet supports such un-Christian principles
(actions speak louder than words; he's no Christian)."You
profess to be Christian yet you oppose programs to help the poor and heal the
sick. @worf" Romney won, in just one day, you would have
seen a turn around."That's foolish. No wonder people are
voting for Romney. They think he's the Messiah. Sorry, but Rafalca's a
brown horse, not white.
@Grundle: You're right, but you all want to keep saying Romney - or
McCain/Palin for that matter - would be better than what we have now. As you
say, there's no way to know. As far as we know, it could have been much
If you think taxes aren't going to go up anyway then just go try to put
more into your FSA account for next year. The amount you can contribute pre-tax
has been slashed meaning you are paying more taxes for health care in 2013.
Riv Coug: So both don't have a plan. So we should get rid of a president,
who doesn't have a plan, but he economy is showing signs of turning around
- I know you will argue that point - for a different president who doesn't
have a plan? Is what you are saying?The economists I cited - and I
believe they were nonpartisan - said that there is no way that Romney could do
what he says he wanted to do without raising taxes on those between the $100,000
and $250,000 tax bracket. Romney always said he would not raise taxes on the
middle class, but it's funny he never defined what he believed the middle
class to be.As for your third paragraph, I totally agree with you.
See, not one of those libs that you want to lump together.Now, you
better be careful with your last paragraph. Are you telling me that Romney was
against stem cell research? Are you telling me that Romney was against all
abortion? Be real careful with that one, as abortion is abortion. Gay
marriage, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Grundle,Time to do some research. Had Romney won, in just one day,
you would have seen a turn around.Manufactures held on to their
money waiting for a Romney win, which didn't happen. As a result,
they're will be massive lay-offs. Look around, and you'll see it.
120,000 square miles has been closed to drilling in the passed six days.
Research the up coming regulations. Wait for a Lockheed announcement on
lay-offs, or you can look it up. Wait for Obama care, and the loss of the Bush
tax cuts. Look for a wave of new taxes.
I thought Obama was going to help the middle class. I heard it from his own
lips. LOL! I heard him say he was going to grow the economy through the middle
class. What does that mean? Increasing my employers expenses so he can't
afford to give me a raise even though the cost of living is skyrocketing? Is
that what Obama meant by helping the middle class? My house value decreasing
$60,000 in the four years he was in office. Is that how he was going to help
me? Gas going from $1.85 to $3.85. Maybe that is what he meant, that has done
wonders for my pocket book. I'm middle class and Obama has been nothing but
a disaster for my finances. Obama was re-elected therefore we are going to enter
another recession, you can count on it. Anyone who voted for him and can't
see this coming is blind. I'm cutting my spending and expenses and getting
ready for the train wreck.
Congress created the fiscal cliff. They voted for it. Boehner said he got 98%
of what he wanted in the package. Now it is up to congress to fix it. They
cannot blame the president or the senate. Neither the president nor the senate
created the Budget Sequestration Act. The congress did. And they are the ONLY
ones that can fix it. If they pass a bill, then the senate gets involved and if
the senate passes it, that goes to the president. But until then, the congress
is left with the mess they themselves created. And they all just got re-elected
atl134,Thank you for pointing that out. It's a shame there is a
bipartisan effort coming from the rich and powerful in Washington to take more
money away from minimum wage earners as well as the middle class.
xscribe,Oh, so many things to dispute and only 200 words to do it
in! First of all, you criticize Romney for not having a plan. Well, what on
Earth was Obama's plan!? He never said, except in a 20 page booklet AFTER
the debates (apparently he didn't have a plan until after). Even after 4
years in office he had no positive plan!You mention that Romney
would raise taxes on middle-income earners. Obama mentioned this in his booklet
of fluff, citing the Tax Policy Center as his source. I went to that source and
found that Romney's tax plan were lower in EVERY bracket than Obama's!
Why would Obama lie like that?As for the social issues, are you
opposed to the idea of getting people off handouts and into the workforce? I
thought you were being sarcastic with your first comments.As for the
issues such as abortion, embryonic cell research, gay marriage, can you fault a
religious man for having such stances? It surprises me that Obama professes to
be a Christian yet supports such un-Christian principles (actions speak louder
than words; he's no Christian).
Truthseeker,I sure hope not. I will not endorse raising taxes, on
the rich or poor, so corrupt, special interest-serving politicians in Washinton
can squander more money. I am open in any way imaginable to raising taxes on the
rich, so those rich will be further inclined to fire employees, sell or close
their business and take all of their money overseas.
@SME"That being the case, exactly what is he compromising on?'The spending cuts that dems wouldn't want to make. See, the only
way to get a large deficit reduction bill in a compromise is if both sides give
up something they don't want to give up. Obama is insisting that
Republicans give up the bush tax cuts for the rich. Compromising means democrats
in turn give something up. If you want a compromise that doesn't touch
taxes... the dems will also not give up anything they care strongly about and
the debt reduction will be minimal.@killpack"What a scam!
President Obama said only if you made more than 250K would your taxes
wouldn't go up! "Obama wants to extend the tax cuts on
those making under 250k. You do have a point but for a completely different
reason. The payroll tax holiday ends at the end of this year. Everyone's
payroll taxes are going back up to the normal level and BOTH parties support
this. Neither obama nor romney oppose this. Apparently republicans found one tax
they can support raising... the payroll tax that disproportionately hits those
at the bottom.
Now that the election is over, I hope the Mr Romney will reveal his plan to cut
taxes, raise defense spending and reduce the deficit.Inquiring minds
want to know.It would be the patriotic thing to do. And
while they are at it, both sides seemed to agree that we could reduce waste and
fraud in medicare and medicaid. How about we just vote on that
piece and argue about the rest later.
WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama revived a 2008 campaign promise on Friday,
telling the crowd at an AARP forum that he would be open to raising the level of
income on which Americans pay Social Security taxes.(Sept 2012). Independent Senator Bernie Sanders from VT pledged to introduce
legislation to raise the SS cap in 2011.Democrats will compromise on
spending cuts. Will Republicans compromise on tax increases for upper levels of
I believe the country voted "Forward" into the darkness. We have a
president and a congress that have no ability or desire to work together. It is
time that they all go and we start over. 4 more years of all of this fun.
Can you spell OBAMA? I am certain that he will deflect any blame for this
fiscal cliff to the republicans. A real leader should stand up and take
responsibility. If you voted for Obama you voted for this since we all knew
this was coming with his re-election.
Everybody who complained about the Obama deficits should be quite pleased at the
prospects of going over the fiscal cliff. After all, the fiscal cliff
represents a smaller deficit brought about by less spending and higher taxes on
the middle-class and poor. Why aren't deficit hawks in favor of this?
" And for those who say if Romney had won, things would be better, prove
it!"That is as dumb a statement as the President's
assertion that 9% unemployment was much better than 13%Maybe we can
say that the General Petraus scandal wasn't so bad...at least there
wasn't two affairs covered up...oh wait...I mean three...The
justification for the bad things by pointing to a fictitious unknown that is
worse is not a valid argument.BTW...Has everybody noticed the really
slick spelling assistant the D News has incorporated on the forums? Pretty
If we go over the fiscal cliff we will be getting a taste of what future
generations will have to do pay off the debt we are accumulating. It is bad for
us, but it is going to be a lot worse for them.I think they should
raise taxes on the rich, I would like to see the Republicans call the Democrats
bluff because I know that Democrats won't means test the well to-do seniors
because they are politically powerful.
Those who voted for the liberals, will live with the liberals.Too
bad the rest of us will also.A sixteen trillion debt equals a half
million dollars for every second in a year.No excuse for this, and
we'll pay for it.
It looks like 8 years of sour grapes. The Hillary for eight more years of sour
grapes. Good thing Rush Limbaugh can do mot of the yelling for the next 16
"Middle income families would have to pay an average of about $2,000 more
next year"What a scam! President Obama said only if you made
more than 250K would your taxes wouldn't go up! What a liar! Fraud! And all
of you agreeing to pay more, speak for yourself! I did NOT agree to this ripoff.
Tax revenue currently is squandered. Why would I ever agree to paying MORE
taxes. I want to pay less! If I could have it my way, the incompetent and
totally corrupted men and women of Washington DC would not ever again receive
another single DIME of my money. Has Texas seceded from the union already? This
is absolutely ridiculous!
Us liberals: We are so dumb. All we want are handouts. We are all lumped
together if we vote for Obama. And for those who say if Romney had won, things
would be better, prove it! I thought he would win, and I also said I might vote
for him, if he would only provide facts as to what his plan would entail. He
did not do so. The Romney/Ryan ticket was: We know we can do this, we just
don't know how or we are not going to tell you how. For all I know, and
Romney never answered this question, a lot of the economists were correct:
Romney would have raised taxes on those making between $100,000 and $250,000. I
believe that is the middle class. But my vote came down to social issues. The
economy has too many global factors for me to believe any one candidate, but the
social issues are what scared me away from Romney, and I believe that's why
We have heard a lot about people paying "Their Fair Share." Hence, the
"low or no payers" must also start paying the same percent as everyone
else. We must stop politicians from "buying low income folks votes" by
giving them stuff, freebies and broken promises. If we are all truly committed
Americans, our fair-share is a small price to pay for our citizenship.Maybe we really should "reinstate the draft" and have all the youth,
responsible and irresponsible... gangs, unemployed and whinners actually see
what discipline, duty and obligation really are. Maybe if our current
social-justice lovers would put their works & deeds to work...... maybe a
price could be paid. We don't need "shovel-ready projects" and
more bull from constant campaigners. We need real jobs and real contributors,
but as a nation we just voted "no thanks." I'd rather get
freebies......It's truly sad when over 70% of births in some
groups have no men in the picture taking responsibility for their irresponsible
behavior......and guess who "picks up the tab."?Many of us
have worked 1 full time and part in the Reserve for 20 + years.I
have never felt so sad for my country.
The majority of Obama supporters/voters believe the "fiscal cliff" is
somewhere in Colorado.
The ignorance of basic economics is astounding, but given the sorry state of our
public education any more, not surprising.There are no "free
lunches" and politicians who have been buying votes by giving away "free
stuff" with borrowed money are responsible. Yes, both Democrats and
Republicans share the blame, but the 'rats are worse spenders and
borrowers.THe only solution is to cut spending on much loved
"freebie" and "entitlement" programs. Even if Defense were shut
down entirely and every dollar earned by "the rich" were confiscated, we
would still be broke.We must (and eventually will, regardless of
what any politician tells you) tax everyone, end "earned tax credits"
cut off the "Obama phones" funding for Public Broadcasting, foreign aid,
reduce Medicare, end the Social Security Ponzi scheme, Cash for clunkers,
college aid, environmental nonsense, and a host of other "nice to have"
stuff and reduce government jobs by 50%.Otherwise (or perhaps
anyway) we will end up with a violent rebellion in the streets by the
"takers" against the "makers". This is the consequence of
shifting from the greatest nation of free people to one of government encouraged
dependency and envy.
I am for a FLAT TAXWe all pay the same tax when we buy a car,
groceries, etc. (States do vary on sales tax though)If you are LDS,
we all pay the same tithing.We all should pay the exact same
percentage for income tax, periodI a betting the rate for the
average person would go down.
Bring it.Let _all_ the Bush tax cuts expire, then start fro scratch
with a more rational approach.Let the automatic spending cuts
happen, especially in the DoD.When the public actually gets to see
how this particular batch of sausage is being made, they'll be less
inclined to pay for fighter jets the Air Force says it neither wants nor needs,
and they'll ask themselves how it is that the guys who made out like
bandits in the last ten years pay lower taxes than the rest of us do.End the special tax breaks for private jets and luxury yachts.Better yet, just reinstate the tax rates that existed at the end of the Reagan
Administration. Those were good for our economy. Bush-era tax rates have been
disastrous for everyone except the 1%.
We the People. Not us vs. them. Bring on the fiscal cliff. We should all
shoulder the burden. As nice as it sounds to only have a small percentage of
the people shoulder nearly all of the burden, it just won't work long term.
America is/was great because all have the opportunity to succeed, not because
we are all protected from failure.
If you voted for Obama.. I don't want to hear from you when you are out on
the street. Sorry
Wait. WE all get to shoulder the burden of the "fiscal cliff"? Bring
it on. I am happy to pay my share, but I know I already pay way more than my
share. 35% Federal taxes doesn't seem so bad when it isn't you paying
that rate. 42%, once again, not so bad when it isn't you paying that rate.
Why should I have to pay it alone? Entitlements need to be whittled down to
the bare essentials. No more "obama phone" socialistic policies. I
hope we hit the fiscal cliff so everyone can feel the pain, not just "the
Correction, raybies, "we" didn't vote for this recession. Half of
the country did and half did not. I am one of those who proudly voted for Mitt
Romney and an end to the irresponsible Obama years. I am discouraged about the
next four years and beyond.
Cutting federal spending will affect everyone, but save money for
everyone's grandchildren. Was that just a catch phrase? It is a good
thing that "rich" people cannot buy a free ride. The majority wants high
annual incomes taxed without the Bush tax cut. The election was hyped and
claimed by the opponents of the President as the election to determine the
future. The future is here. Was the election for the future only if Romney won?
He's open to compromise? Sure. His idea of compromise reminds me of a
commanding officer I had in the military. He used to wear a button that said
"Be Reasonable. Do it my way".
The Bush tax cuts were TEMPORARY for a reason. Those of you who
have bought into the notion that allowing the tax cuts to expire for those
making above $250K will be disastrous have been duped.If rates rise
for the richest Americans, they will still be paying lower taxes than under
Reagan.Conservative Bill Kristol -"It won’t
kill the country if Republicans raise taxes a little bit on millionaires. It
really won’t, I don’t think.""I don’t
really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer to freeze
taxes for everyone below $250,000.""Really? The Republican
party is gonna fall on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires, half of whom
voted Democratic, and half of whom live in Hollywood and are hostile to
We voted for this recession. We wanted it, over the alternative of not having a
recession. We believe that if we punish enough "rich" people (aka.
people who have more than me), it will make us all feel better--even if
everyone's affected aversely. This is the direct result of
class envy. The vote was not about the economy, and now we get to ride the train
that we all boarded when we didn't care about it.
"Last week, Obama said he was open to compromise with Republican leaders.
But the White House said he would veto any bill that would extend tax cuts on
income above $250,000."That being the case, exactly what is he
compromising on?Also saying that “Congress has acted each year
to prevent the AMT from hitting many more people.” is a misnomer. Since
they don't ever actaully solve the problem saying "Congress puts a
temporary band-aid on the problem each year", would be more accurate.