1 debate left; 2 alphas, President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, wage fight of their lives

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  • Aimless Bellevue, WA
    Oct. 18, 2012 10:56 p.m.

    Golly, worf! Why is it an insult for free contraceptives to be offered for American women? Is it because they wouldn't want such use forced upon them? Or because they can pay for their own contraceptives, thank you very much! Details, worf, details!

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 18, 2012 10:33 a.m.


    "well I suppose everyone has the right to read what ever they want into peoples words (spin) something you have attempted (poorly) to turn into an art."

    Would you provide an example? Considering that your posts clearly indicate that you rarely actually read what I say before commenting, perhaps there is a mirror piece somewhere in there for for you.

    I stand by my allegation that attempts to blame Romney for the politicization of Obama's clear failure in Libya represents passive/aggressive manipulative dishonesty (aka spin) at its worst and both Phranc and Tolstoy merely prove how the far left uses feigned "victim" status to divert attention (spin) away from the fact that Obama is actually the "perpetrators" in politicizing Libya.

    Attempts to accuse anyone who notices that the emperor has no clothes of "trying to spin" merely reinforces the lack of credibility on the part of Obama clones.

    Attempts to project irresponsibility onto others is even more pathetic: You spin - but I am the bad boy? That is rich in hypocrisy. I am happy to take responsibility for my own flaws - but not those that are clearly yours

    Obama politicized Libya; blaming others is merely pathetic

  • Lentzeh South Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 7:25 p.m.

    My previous comment was actually for another article, but my shaky hands (I have a disability) caused some strange results when I tried to submit it. However, I have a comment for this article as well. Thank you Mitt Romney for being the wise and principled champion that will protect us from the abusive and overbearing bullies in the Obama Administration that have interfered with our pursuit of happiness. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan can wear my colors (the United States Flag) anytime, because they have shown great courage and backbone by stand up for the truth, our freedoms, and our values. As one of those 47% who is living in poverty on disability, I will do much better with resources from local agencies and people who love me and will help me with things that I truly need. That way I can work on ways to rehabilitate myself with my own initiative and resourcefulness without being penalized or being placed in a box that I don't fit.

    Oct. 17, 2012 6:49 p.m.

    well I suppose everyone has the right to read what ever they want into peoples words (spin) something you have attempted (poorly) to turn into an art.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 4:52 p.m.

    Two "alpha" males who did not mention the Constitution and who had a contest of political correctness when it came to women in the workplace etc.

    I will give Romney this kudos,though, and it is substantial:

    1. He promoted standing up against illegal immigration.

    2. He expressed a determination to stand up to China and make them compete fairly.

    3. He stated categorically that we made a mistake in emphasizing international corporations to the detriment of small businesses.

    4. He emphasized a "level playing field" in national competing economies, including at least a very strong suggestion that we reduce our uncompetitive corporate tax rate.

    5. He had the courage to talk of faith in God and that people ought to consider "the idea" of postponing families until after marriage.

    Obama did one smart thing though, he waited until
    closing statements that Romney would not have the opportunity (within this debate) to counter. The statement addressed apparent disrespect and misrepresentation of "the 47%", the proportion of the people who do not pay income tax because of insufficient income. In this Obama seems to have adopted an effective criticism, one that may be impossible to answer satisfactorily.

  • Lentzeh South Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 4:34 p.m.

    As a mother who at the time I was going to school for my Masters, was working 5 different jobs, I am proud of Mitt Romney for bringing out the unspoken idea that women often do the job of two men and may need an understanding boss who will not be ridged on inconsequential rules. Remember, many women are mothers, and support mothers' issues. The fact that MassGAP started their endeavor in 2002 does not mean that this is what Romney received before he took office and was in the process of first headhunting. A man so organized as he was would have started that process before the election because he would have wanted to start on day one with an effective team. The larger issue was that he sought out strong women, who were well qualified and able to do an excellent job, including women of both political parties and then treated them as valued members of his team, such as Jane Edmunds. (By the way, the abuse she received from the left for her speech at the convention speaks volumes about the hypocrisy of the left.)

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 4:33 p.m.


    Obama took responsibility for Libya only after he could no longer pretend that it was not a terrorist attack. Last night he was obviously trying to be the knight in shining armour who wont throw poor Hillary under the bus by letting her take the blame (in a vain effort to placate the passive/aggressive feminist vote) For the record - they are both guilty.

    I am not sure where this concerned person routine is coming from, but it is obviously nothing more than a manipulative effort to deflect blame for lack of reason onto others. As usual.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 4:11 p.m.

    reluctantly took the blame? where we watching the same debate? your entire comment suggest we watched two totally different debates. I think both men where more interested in style and landing punches then substance but beyond that I think you saw exactly what you wanted to see, as usual. I am not sure where this angry man routine is coming from lately but it is a pretty poor substitute for reason and cannot be good for your health.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 17, 2012 4:03 p.m.

    Sixty five percent of school children qualify for free or reduced lunch. Romney had a low figure when he said forty seven percent.

    Obama will win if we have more takers then producers.

  • Jay_ Seattle, WA
    Oct. 17, 2012 3:24 p.m.

    Let's get one thing straight - Obama is not an Alpha male. Come on DN, keep your backbone as the heat is turned up by the left!

  • Mr. Bean Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 3:13 p.m.

    "He punched Romney in the gut with the Libya gaff..."

    If Obama knew it was a terrorist attack the day after in the Rose Garden, why, then did he and his administration continue for weeks to blame an anti Muslim Prophet films, huh? The gaff was Obama's and his people. They don't seem to know what's going on.

    "... and then finished him off with a 47% left cross."

    The 47% occurred mostly under Obama. If he wins reelection it will likely soar to 65% by 2016. And the national debt will be around $20 trillion... half of which is Obama's. I fear what a bankrupt America will look like if he gets reelected. God help us!


    "When you have no record to run just lie. The Obama strategy."

    You got that right. Obama's record is dismal. He told us in the last election that if he couldn't get it going in three years it would be a one-term proposition. Let's take him at his word.

    "Obama is banking on the ignorance of the voters."

    Yes, and the 47% who are freeloaders.

  • Whatever Springville, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 3:03 p.m.

    Romney lost. Of course you can cry about it all you want but it's over. Four more years. No Bush III. Sorry.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2012 2:56 p.m.

    Re: Whatever Springville, UT
    "It's official, Romney lost. Boo hoo."

    Lost what? Have you seen the results of the latest Gallup Poll released today? The news for liberals just isn't going to get any better from now on.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 2:28 p.m.


    "Obama was right it is disgusting the way the far right and Romney tried to politicize this tragedy as it continued to unfold."

    Obama obfuscates, blames, lies and it is the fault of Romney? It is exactly that kind of passive/aggressive manipulative distortion that repels me from the left-side of the political spectrum.

    When Obama came up with bizarre explanations in an effort to avoid the embarrassment of HIS middle eastern disaster just weeks before an election - OBAMA politicized Libya.

    Obama reluctantly took the blame for Libya last night, as he well should have weeks ago - before HE politicized it

  • Whatever Springville, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 1:48 p.m.

    It's official, Romney lost. Boo hoo.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 17, 2012 1:32 p.m.

    Free contraceptives? What an insult!

    Obama has a low regard of American women.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    Who besides Romney was the other alpha?

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:42 p.m.

    One sided group as always.
    You all might want to broaden your horizons and read other newspapers throughout the U.S.
    New ideas, various opinions abound.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:14 p.m.

    @liberal ted

    talk about all over the place ted? nice attempt of not actually addressing the fact that you are trying to play a semantics and politics with a very serious issue through an attempt at redirection by crying but the other guy did this and that and the other. really not a very convincing defense of your claims or actions. by the way Obama addressed Obama care and immigration reform last night not sure what debate you where watching.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:09 p.m.

    Re: Tolstoy salt lake, UT

    You are very astute. I think you nailed it.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 12:04 p.m.

    When you have no record to run just lie. The Obama strategy. LIE in your adds and LIE in the debates and when Romney states the truth about your record (such as the number of oil and gas permits revoked on public land) just LIE about those. So ... this election has come down to the electorate being ALERT to Obama's continued LIES. Oh and add the LIES about the embassy attack too - Crowley now admits Mitt was right!!!

    Bottom line - Obama is banking on the ignorance of the voters. Obama is banking on HIS LIES seeing him through. What a SAD SAD state of affairs in the country. The man is a disgrace to the United States.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    @ Tolstoy

    The list continues. Barack blamed the tea party for the shooting in AZ with Giffords. Before any evidence came out, once again he blamed the tea party for murder. Talk about politicizing an event. Then when Gifford was running again, the media and left wing nut jobs questioned anyone that would run against her as being insensitive etc. Really? Turns out the guy was a registered democrat and was disillusioned with that party along with obvious other issues.

    The tea party was labeled by the president as desperate people clinging to their guns and religion. They were at the same time labeled as astro turf. That changed in 2010 when they delivered a "schilacking" to the democrat party.

    Barack praised the occupy movement and jumped on the band wagon before figuring out what was happening. After the number of murders, rapes, drug use, public disturbances barack tried to untie himself from them. The same people who weeks earlier he was encouraging...Talk about politicizing a sad event while people were murdered within their camps....

    I think Mitt coming out and calling the terroists attack a terroists attack day one and mourning the loss of these people was appropriate.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:42 a.m.

    You mean like when barack spiked the football over and over again that he personally led and killed osama all by himself? Or when obama was running the first time and gave the number of dead soldiers over and over again? Or when obama used execuitve privelage to protect his admin over fast and furious?

    Isn't it disgusting how obama won't run on his record? Why isn't he touting obamacare? Why won't he talke about immigration reform? He has no problem asking for latino votes again, but, has not delivered on his promise in the first year. Isn't it disgusting to use that issue to gain votes and then give them the bird as soon as he is in office?

    What about his promise to bring black unemployemnt down? Isn't that disgusting to politicize that tragic loss of unemployed people when he promised hope and change?

    How about the Cambridge police officer while that was unfolding? What about Trayvon Martin while the case was still unfolding? Lives were lossed and affected when your beloved barack spoke up and was wrong. Everyone knew it was a terroists attack.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 11:02 a.m.

    while I agree with your assertion that Obama did not bother showing up for the first debate, I think your claim that the majority of voter wrote him of afterwards maybe a bit of a stretch. Anyway I thought the best analysis I heard on the effects of this debate came from a cnn commentator that said "this debate was really for the die hard faithful of both party because the truly undecided are all watching the Yankees game anyway." While I think Obama inked out a narrow win in the debate I doubt it will make much difference at the end of the day.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:32 a.m.

    Re: Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    "Sorry right wingers, but Obama won that debate easily."

    There is no doubt in my mind that Obama won that debate easily .... in the minds of the liberal left. The question is whether it was too little too late to change the minds of the dwindling number of undecided voters?

    The time for Obama to put Romney away was during their first debate and when Obama didn't ever bother to show up mentally a majority of the voters wrote him off.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    The only difference between Obama in this debate and his first one is that he was louder this time. He never answered any questions. All he did is talk in circles and lie about oil drilling and Benghazi.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 10:10 a.m.

    @liberal ted

    wow, talk about trying to split a semantic hair that does not exist. Obama was right it is disgusting the way the far right and Romney tried to politicize this tragedy as it continued to unfold.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    This President can't answer questions directly, it is against his grain. He is defenseless in anything he talks about as he goes in circles.

    If you are Democrat, you probably liked what he said. However, if you look at your life and surroundings, most are not better today than they were 4 years ago due to no fiscal policy with a budget. He knows how to spend as if he was still getting federal money for his community organizing activities. I don't think Donald Trump would hire this non-leader without a character. We need someone who knows how to make decisions and not be surrounded by Czars and advisors that are paid to make him happy and be in his Disneyland world everyday.

    Power can corrupt and he has really enjoyed being President at the sacrifice of a nation and all the people on welfare, food stamps, unemployed and homeless. He has made us apologetic to every nation and cause in the world. He makes our industries appear to be against the world and environment that only he can save us from ourselves.

    What a pity to see his facial expressions and eyes and forehead muscles yesterday.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    @ Mike in Cedar City

    Obamas quote in the rose garden was "No acts of terror...". He didn't label it a terroists attack.

    He then went on about the you tube video and blamed the video that had been out for months for the spontaneous protests that (which turned into a RPG, Mortar fire, assault rifle, organized murder of Americans) but in his mind was a random protest.

    They had CCTV footage of the conflict, radio communications from the people inside the embassy, a drone that was filming above, all of which told us in real time this was an organized terroists attack on the anniversary of 9/11. After the ambassador begged for more security.

    If barack cared about those lives he would have automatically increased security before the attack and at the very least on every annivesary of 9/11 or other important dates for the terroists. Instead he waited until lives were lost and then ordered increased security at several places.

    Some leader. He cared soo much that he took off after that speech to raise money for himself and tell more lies to welfare voters in other words his base. People like yourself.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 17, 2012 9:15 a.m.

    Obama--we've created enough pipeline to circle the globe.---Where is it?

    We've increase drilling.---Nope! Sixty percent less off shore drilling permits, and twenty percent less on land.

    Gas prices were lower when I came to office, because the economy was struggling.----Economy is worse now, and prices went up.

    Obama did not explain why we rejected the Canadian oil pipeline, or how windmills were funded by stimulus money that created thousands of jobs in China, Japan, and Australia.

    Obama didn't explain guns to Mexican cartels, which resulted in many deaths, or how for two weeks he thought a video caused the riots in Libya, and Egypt.

    Can't believe some people feel Obama won the debate. A loud bark doesn't make a leader with character.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 17, 2012 8:36 a.m.

    Illegal firearms circulated among criminals on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border. People were killed!

    Why did Obama block investigations, and not give an explanation during the debate?

    Many unanswered questions, and lies from Obama, and some feel he won the debate?

    Where are the expectations? Have Americans become desensitized?

    The loudness of a bark, doesn't make a leader with character.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    Sorry right wingers, but Obama won that debate easily. He punched Romney in the gut with the Libya gaff, and then finished him off with a 47% left cross. That will be the lasting narrative of the 2nd presidential debate regardless of the bias of the DN and Utah right wingers. Actually maybe it was Crowley who punched Romney on the Libyan thing. Obama should invite her to be in the new cabinet. Secretary of facts

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2012 7:58 a.m.

    When the dust settles after the general elections on November 6th it will be said that Obama lost the race after his disastrous failure in the first presidential debate. He was never able to recover.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 7:17 a.m.

    Romney came out on top again. He actually explained his policies. The one of many problems with obama is that he is in office. He keeps telling people what we should do, but, he is in office right now. If these plans are soo important, then why hasn't he been pushing hard to get them implemented. For example immigration reform, he promised in his first year to have that done. Instead he pushed obamacare for the past 4 years. He said he would cut the deficit in half, he has doubled it. He promised the most open and transparent administration, but, has blocked records from being seen; he has invoked executive privelage. He promised to ban assault rifles, instead his administration has been handing them out to criminals that used them to murder people. He promised to heal and unite the country, instead he pits rich against poor, black vs white, latino vs white, and then goes out with his rich white friends and gets more campaign money. He promised laser focus on jobs, instead he golfed and tells us to get an education.

    Time for regime change.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Oct. 17, 2012 7:15 a.m.

    To turn a quote by Ted Kennedy into the truth, "People died, Obama lied." Think he can handle that? Romney did fine last night. When the last question was asked, Romney spent most of his time talking about him and some of the things that he had done. Obama spent the whole time talking about Romney. He didn't even answer the question.