Backers aim to widen ban on gay conversion therapy

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    Oct. 3, 2012 2:30 p.m.


    I have a question CI does this mean you will no longer claim to "be gay" on other threads since you claim you where "gay but have been cured?"

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 3, 2012 1:11 p.m.


    I am not sure how to get you to understand it has nothing to do with politics there are other therapies that could have lead to the same result without placing you in danger.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2012 9:06 a.m.


    I am not sure how to get across to you that by banning therapies that YOU oppose, for blatantly political, rather than therapeutical reasons, you are the one harming others. Yes; reparative therapy can harm someone forced in to it - so can virtually every other therapy, including gay affirmative therapies that you adore. You merely propose banning the therapiy not convenient to your rigid ideology. You are too busy feeling morally superior to note your own advocacy of censorship based on YOUR bias.

    How dare you tell me I am "way to close to this issue to be objective". Could you possibly be any more patronizing, arrogant and pompous.
    I live it: Therefor I am the only one who can tell you what works for me and exactly how your arrogance harms me - you are merely the ones trying to censor information and then maliciously turning YOUR, not my, attempts at censorship into a referendum on my character. Disgusting.

    Thank you for illustrating why I have so little respect for the politically correct crowd who is so busy feeling morally superior that they cannot see that they are much WORSE than those they claim to oppose.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 2, 2012 9:22 p.m.


    I think you need to take a deep breath and try to actually read what george is saying I do not see him trying to invalidate your experiences at all and I think he is right you are way to close to this issue to be objective.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Oct. 2, 2012 7:19 p.m.

    @counter intelligence

    i am not sure how to get across to you that I am happy it worked for you but its risk far out weigh its potential for serious harm. This is obviously a very highly personal and emotional subject for you and I do not wish to cause you distress so I am going to disengage or conversation, best of health.


    If those other forms of therapy have a proven harm then they should be banned.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 2, 2012 3:18 p.m.

    Why not ban other therapies that have little scientific basis? Most nutritional supplements, aroma therapy, chiropractic, naturopathy, and a long list of other treatments including some offered by MDs are not evidence-based.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 2, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    "reparative therapy does not have any other legitimate use given its high potential for harm.'

    You are essentially saying that the good it did for me and others is of no consequence because you refuse to see any legitimate use of a therapy that does not fit your narrow bias. Who is shoving whose values onto whom? You are too busy playing the rescuer/victim to recognize YOU are the perpetrator here - YOU, not I, are trying to justify banning something that YOU, not I, do not like. It comes at MY expense. I am the one you are denying help merely so that you can feel pious. Gay affirmative therapy can harm (for example; several of my friends were victims of horrific abuse and their "you're gay get used to it" therapists made it worse) Should I ban gay affirmation? (pompously proclaiming superiority)

    "no one should be forced by their therapist to embrace the therapist views as it sounds like may have happened to you"

    I guess my healing is only valid if I adopt YOUR opinions and values. That is incredibly arrogant and condescending; AKA hate

    Thank You for proving my original point - in abundance.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Oct. 2, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    @Counter Intelligence

    I have no desire to try to degrade you but your comparison is a little silly. A hammer has other legitimate uses, reparative therapy does not have any other legitimate use given its high potential for harm. A better comparison would be to say you can make a hole with a atomic bomb instead of a shovel, it gets the job done, however the harm it causes does not outweighed by its damage.

    Again it has nothing to do with hate I am happy you have found peace and hopefully a fulfilling life, and no one should be forced by their therapist to embrace the therapist views as it sounds like may have happened to you, again therapeutic goals should be driven by the client but the fact remains the risk associated with reparative therapy as an intervention is to high and any therapist that uses it is placing their clients at unnecessary risk given the other interventions that can be used to help the client meet the same goals.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 2, 2012 11:25 a.m.


    A hammer can damage - do you ban them?

    Too much water can kill - do you eliminate it?

    Like skeetaro, I think you are in denial regarding the oppressive nature of your own zeal to silence something you don't agree with, simply because it does not conform to your orthodoxy.

    Vilifying it to rationalize your acts of censorship may make YOU feel better; but it doesn't change the inherent venom behind the action.

    Your basic assumption that reparative therapy is inherently NOT driven by the client indicates your own bias and that you are in denial of your own ability to harm (in the name of helping - of course)

    I have been damaged by rigid gay affirmative therapy (as have others) - are you OK with me working to ban it as a tool? Or should I actually tolerate other peoples choices?

    As a therapist - you should be the first to understand that hate in the name of tolerance is still hate (even if you deny it is hate); and that the exact same allegations of misuse of a tool can be made about YOU by those manipulatively wishing to silence dissent in the name of their feigned enlightenment.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Oct. 2, 2012 10:36 a.m.

    @counter intelligence

    As someone that has been a therapist for over 20 years I can honestly say i am happy that this therapy has helped you to find a place of comfort in your life it does not however change the fact that it has ruined many others lives. This is not about hate this is about the real harm that has been done to real people. There are other forms of therapy that do not cause the harm reparative therapy can cause that could have helped you arrive at the same outcome. I have no interest as a therapist in trying to force someone who is uncomfortable with their same sex attraction and wanting to discover another way to interact with their world from doing so . Therapy goals should always be driven by the client not the therapist however the therapist has a responsibility to not engage in forms of therapy that could cause harm which reparative therapy has been proven to do.

  • skeetaro Boise, ID
    Oct. 2, 2012 10:10 a.m.

    Denial is "the refusal to acknowledge the existence or severity of unpleasant external realities or internal thoughts and feelings."

    I don't see any hate coming from the 'left' but I sure see a lot of denial coming this page.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 2, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    Reparative therapy saved my life. It provided a path to grow in the face of overpowering homodogmatic zealotry and intolerance
    As a homosexual: attempts, such as this, to silence dissent are precisely why I avoid associating with the homafia.
    The dogmatists of the far left sell their ideology under the guise of choice; then they immediately work to eliminate anyone from choosing anything different.
    Although I was not "cured" by reparative therapy (nor was I promised), it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
    I have close friends who are not "cured" either but are functioning happily in heterosexual relationships.
    I was involved in a "study" to determine whether reparative therapy was damaging and the "unbiased" researcher (who is openly gay) repeatedly told me I was oppressed even when I repeatedly told him I was happy with the therapy (and that I thought those attacking the therapy were passive/aggressive whiners working to silence non-complaint thought).

    Silencing opposing viewpoints in the name of helping people, is HATE in its worst form.
    This bigotry represents perfectly how victims devolve into perpetrators

    This is nothing more than left wing hate and censorship in its most despicable form