RiflemanI only know what I read in the texts I've referenced
twice now. The Man from Nazareth commanded us to take care of those with less.
Commanded us not to judge how they came to have less. Doing so puts you at risk.
There is only one justifiable use for the excess you may be blessed with:
clothes, food, shelter, care for those with less. I'd suggest Matthew 25
-- the only place in all scripture he gives an exact explanation of what the
criteria for final judgment.
'We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here
for, I don’t know'"
@Red Shirt -- I may sound like a media shill, but you prove my point. I suppose
it is inconceivable that Obama also works while he is on "vacation." As
all presidents do. As I said before, no fact will convince an extreme partisan
Republican that there is anything good or even neutral about Obama. The
extremist only believes something they hear that is negative. Note that you only
mention Bush and Reagan as paragons of virtue. Apparently only Republican
presidents work while Democrats just twiddle their thumbs and/or plot and plan
to turn the USA into the USSR (or Nazi Germany!)
To "Wonder" you should read more about what Bush and Reagan did when
they were "on vacation". The first hand accounts of their staff members
have indicated that they were not "on vacation" but were working from
home. See Newsbuster's article "Newsweek Defends Obama's Leisure
But Mocked Bush's Working Vacations at Texas Ranch". Also see US News
article "Bush's Working Holidays: Aides say the president is on the job
even while vacationing in Crawford". If that isn't enough for you, you
can read "White House to move to Texas for a while" in USA Today. There
they describe how Bush turned his ranch into an alternate White House, where he
worked during his time away.You sound like one of the media shills.
rE: Owen Heber City, UT"Rifleman: convenient of you to leave off the
second phrase of my post -- "without judging how they may have ended up that
way.""If you think the Man of Galilee would have condoned
supporting able bodied men and women who think the taxpayers are suckers that
owe them a living then you don't know that Man or His teachings.Besides, we kicked Him out of schools and public meeting houses and told Him
not to come back. The liberals only like to dust Him off and bring Him out when
they think it will serve their argument.
@mark -- You are correct, but no list of facts will ever convince a tea partier.
There is nothing at all you can say or do to prove something different from
what they heard on Fox or from Limbaugh or Beck. Obama is criticized for the
kookiest things by far right extremists because there is absolutely nothing he
can do that they won't criticize. It's illogical, but that's
just the way it is.
I agree 100% with the topic of the letter. In an environment of freedom
(something that jealous, nutty, leftists democrats are trying to destroy) Romney
used lawful business practices and took calculated risks, in an effort to get
ahead. Things could have gone the other way for him, but he had the ability to
make things work out. Sure he had some help and opportunities handed to him
along the way, so what! We all do, just some get bigger help and opportunities.
In this environment of freedom, I fully support him using his
money any way he wants. He can blow it on cars, girls, or food. He can thow it
all in the ocean, or give it away to charity, or his kids or his church or your
church. He can park it all in offshore accounts if he wants to, I don't
care! Not my money. He is not his dad, so why should he be
expected to be like his dad? Who even thinks his dad would be any different,
given today's political environment? I'm not like my father...so what?
Move on, grow up, and quite being such hypocrites!
The letter writer mentions the Presidents vacation days.A direct
comparison places Obama squarely on middle ground of presidential vacation days
used. Of the past five presidents, during their first year in office, only two,
Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton took less time off than Obama. Ronald Reagan,
George HW Bush and his son all spent much more time away from the White House
than the current occupant. Obama's retreat to Martha's Vinyard in
August 2011 sparked a particularly high number of criticisms, however at that
point in his presidency he had only taken a total of 61 days off. Compared to
that same time in office Ronald Reagan had spent 112 days on vacation and George
W Bush had been away for a total of 180 days. Bill Clinton, at 28 days, had the
least time off of recent presidents. Reagan held the total vacation day record
of 436 until the younger Bush left office with a grand total of 977 days away
from Washington, representing 1/3 of his presidency.-“Jetting
Around” Obama's Vacation Record, Opensalon, APRIL 13, 2012
There is nothing wrong with being wealthy, as long as it is earned honestly and
honorably. QUOTEYou have it right so far, but there is
something more, as others have suggested.On what do you spend your
money? A good question is: in what proportions would a
public-spiritied person allocate his resources between personal luxuries and
self-aggrandizement on one hand and the public weal on the other. "Men and women of wealth, use your riches to give employment to the
laborer! Take the idle ... and place them on... the areas that await the hand
of industry.... embark in enterprises that will give work to the unemployed....
Make others happy and you will be happy yourselves."Lorenzo Snow
"Teachings" Page 63It is not necessary that we have an
aristocracy of wealth in this nation, an aristocracy that seems to love a large
labor pool that is happy to work for minimum wages or little more, creating a
growing gap between the said aristocracy and the said labor pool.Such an aristocracy, as with all other aristocracies, tends to be
self-perpetuating and of limited sympathies.
Rifleman: convenient of you to leave off the second phrase of my post --
"without judging how they may have ended up that way." If you believe
the sacred texts Mitt claims to, assuming someone has ended up where they are
through "terrible choices" is simply not allowed. In fact will result in
you ending up in being judged harshly by the only party in the universe who has
that authority. Since we're tossing around quotes;"Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity, nothing exceeds the
criticisms of the habits of the poor by the well housed, the well worn and the
well fed." - Herman Melville
To "LDS Liberal" once again your liberal filters only take in part of
the story. Romney hired a business to take care of his lawn. Once he found out
that they hired illegal immigrants, he fired that business. See "Romney
Explains Record of Hiring Illegal Immigrants as Lawn Keepers" at ABC.How is Romney's money sitting idle? He gave $4 million to charity
and paid another $3 million in taxes. The rest of his money is in investments.
His money is not sitting idle, it is making more money. How else do you get $13
million in investment income?Please stop spreading half truths, they
are worse than lies.
Re: Owen Heber City, UT"Nothing at all, as long as you spend it to
help those who don't have enough ..."Supporting those
who've made terrible choices in the past and present, and will continue to
make them in the future only inables them to continue to be dependent on
others.As the saying goes, "Give a man a fish and you feed him
for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
Hey guess what Hemlock, people have been working and making a living long before
there were wealthy people. Wealth came along with warfare and conquering of
land. A little history would be good for an awefull lot of people.
Sure God created the universe but we pay rent to Bob the banker.Nobody would work for someone else if they didn't have to. Seeking
enough power to able to take advantage of people and never doing any labor and
creation is NOT admerable.
Wealthy people, of whom I am not one, spend their money creating jobs for us
all. Sending our money to DC only wishes they could do the same.
RedShirt USS Enterprise, UTSo the jist of your argument is that
wealth allows a person to hire people at below minimum-wage, with no health
benefits or paid vacation, to take care of immense properties they they
purchased to impress their wealthy friends? The whole narrative
behind conservative policy appears to be to create more competition among
American workers for low-paying jobs so that we don't have to expolit
undocumented immigrants.By telling low- and middle-income American
parents that their children shouldn't aspire to go to college and develop
those skills which should give them higher-paying jobs, they should just join
this low-wage labor pool to better serve the wealthy elite who are spending
their money on huge homes with estate-sized gardens, expensive toys which
require maintenance and care, and travel to exclusive locales with amenities
made possible by cheap service labor.This sounds like the system my
ancestors left the old country to come to America. There, a person's life
choices was set at birth. If born into poverty, you stayed in poverty so serve
the Master and his people. Certainly not aspire to anything better and cause
Whoa the repubs commenting here sure are in a stir! Anything that
irritates them is a good thing IMO. The righties were wrong about
WMDs, nation building, Medicare Part D, tax cuts to grow our economy, NAFTA,
etc. Our country is so far along, why would we care what repubs
think anymore? Their party is so radical and so out of touch with America,
they're merely just static.
Romney was born into wealth. There is a difference between someone who came
from very little and achieved success. Romney's wealth is not an issue.
The issue is how does he relate to people who don't either come from the
world he grew up in or live in the world in which he currently exists. It is a
completely different way of looking at the world.He just had many,
many advantages most Americans can only dream about. Having said that, it is
not that amazing that he doesn't have all that much sympathy for the 47% of
Americans he denigrated in his Florida talk. The only thing he really was sorry
for was that there was a video of him saying what he said.
@JSF(and all of the other posters listing the business Mitt saved)I
noticed an interesting choice on your list. Clear Chanel Radio. First, Bain
bought Clear Chanel in 2007, which is after when Mitt claims he gave up control
at Bain. But it is a good example of what private equity firms can do to a
company. First they sold off Clear Chanel TV stations and live concert business.
(stripping the value out of the company) They also sold almost 500 radio
stations after being acquired by Bain. Then they laid off 7% of the workforce,
because of the debt acquired due to being bought by a private equity firm.
Finally they are facing bankruptcy because of a lack of cash flow due to.....
You guessed it, debt. Isn't that ironic?
RedShirtUSS Enterprise, UTWe know that he doesn't mow his
own lawn, so there is another person hired to help care for his luxury house.=========== As i recall, He hired illegal aliens to do
it for him.Besides,His money is "sitting" in foreign
banks.He's building nothing, he's spending nothing.As Brigham Young said, Money sitting idle is the devil's.Nothing is being bought nor sold, So nothing is being produced.It'
not in "usuary", so it's not stimulting the economy.A
millionaire's lavish lifestyle changes little after a certain point, after that, he's just "hording" the wealth of this earth and
keeping out of the hands of others.[Journal of Discources -- Sorry,
I'm just leaving work, and do not the complete reference in front of me.]
@Screwdriver:"He took control of distressed companies, sent jobs
to other countries..."I don't think so. Here's a
partial list of companies Bain either created or saved...Burger
King, Burlington Coat Factory, Clear Channel Communications, Domino's
Pizza, DoubleClick, Dunkin' Donuts, D&M Holdings, Guitar Center,
Hospital Corporation of America, Sealy, The Sports Authority, Staples, Toys
"R" Us, Warner Music, ertc.
The libs are really showing their true colors. They want wealth to be given to
the poor, yet fail to recognize that buying luxury items does more to raising
the poor out of poverty than just giving them stuff ever will.Look
at it this way. If Romney buys a 10,000 square foot house, there is no way he
can clean it himself. He now will have to hire at least 2 people to clean his
house. We know that he doesn't mow his own lawn, so there is another
person hired to help care for his luxury house. Now, if you have several
wealthy people who all need those services, you now have several people working
and providing for their families who otherwise would be waiting for a
handout.Now, we know that Romney has an 80% success rate in helping
businesses grow. How many people are now working at Staples as a direct result
of Romney's work?For every luxury item purchased, there is a
long string of skilled and unskilled labor that has benefitted.Liberals would have us treat the poor like puppies and give them what they
need, when they just need jobs.
StaplesToys R UsClear Channel RadioDunkin DonutsDomino's PizzaThe Weather ChannelBurger King Sealy
MattressBaskins & RobbinsBain was not just in the business
of destroying, this list is a list of some of the companies saved by Bain.
MountanmanHayden, IDPeople need to work for what they receive
because if they don’t they become less than their creator designed them to
be. 11:40 a.m. Sept. 27, 2012============ Agreed! (for
once)I invite you to read Noodlekaboodle post @ 1:57 p.m. Sept. 27,
2012He explains HOW Mitt Romney the venture Capitalist made his
wealth very well.BTW – It also is the same scam the Money
Changers in Jerusalem did 2,000 years ago. But low, sell High – Not
producing anything.FYI – This sort of Money Making (gain) It runs
contrary to the Law of the Harvest. It’s more like How Cain made his
riches….Corporate Raiders are just Pirates in Suits.
@LDS Liberal:"Mitt Romney has his wealth tucked away in secret
Foreign accounts."He could have tucked it away in a US bank such
as Bear Stearns... but wouldn't have it anymore. I think Romney made a
good choice. Far better than I with secret accounts tucked away in the
erstwhile Washington Mutual Bank.And his 'secret' accounts
must not be so secret if you know about them... unless you and your fellow
mud-slinging Democrats are just making things up. Which is it?We
already know more about Mitt Romney’s tax returns than we do about Barack
Ok, I don't covet Mitt's wealth. But I don't respect him nearly
as much as some other rich men. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and even Mark Zuckerberg
are people that I respect much more than Mitt. The reason is because Mitt
didn't actually build anything. Gates, Jobs, Zuckerberg etc all built a
product (Windows OS, iPod/iPhone/Macbook, Facebook) How did Mitt create his
wealth? Well he took out a loan, bought up failing companies stripped the assets
and sold the carcass of the company to new investors. He didn't build
anything, he was a corporate junk seller.
Re:JsfLolIn your comment you point out that Obama says
he "sought the communists" on campus but then claim he is hiding his
We see people's real character when the do what they will with power. Mitt
has always sought and obtained power. But what did he do with it? He took
control of distressed companies, sent jobs to other countries where the workers
have been made desparate and slashed and burned pensions funds in this country.
When Mitt had power to run the olympics he sought and spent 1.5
billion dollars of taxpayer money to "fix" the shambles of
disorganization. Anyone could fix it with a billion and a half dollars.The $1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars that Congress poured into Utah was 1.5
times the amount spent by lawmakers to support all seven Olympic Games held in
the U.S. since 1904—combined. How is that so great? How is that not crony
@ jsf, if you don't know who Obama is after serving as President for four
years, all I can say is you need to come out of the cave. All you spout is
radical right wing venom meant to tear down, back by nothing whatsoever. Zip.
Nada. Right wing conspiracy theories. Want to see Obama's tax returns for
10 years? Easy. Want to see Romney's tax returns for 10 years? Forget
it. Here's the deal. Either Harry Reid and his Bain investor source are
right that Romney didn't pay, or he had involvement in the Son of Boss tax
scam, which Marriott Corp. got caught up in while Romney was on the Board,
described as “a truly abusive tax shelter...the most abusive in US
history,” or some other issue with the IRS. This would explain why Romney
told a close associate that had he known he was gong to be pressed to release
his tax returns, he would never have run for President. Unlike some, I
don't fall for his "Ah, shucks" act.
People need to work for what they receive because if they don’t they
become less than their creator designed them to be. They waste their God given
talents, their freedom (dependency is not freedom) and their dignity. They
become just a different kind of slave and never experience much of the joys of
life! They don’t live, they just exist.
Everything on Earth belongs to GOD. If you take more than you need, seek riches
to inflate yourself and don't care for others you can answer for it. It's no different than if I ordered a pizza for my kids and my son
claimed the pizza as his own and made my daughter work for her slice. What rich man has made even one atom from nothing? Capitalism isn't what
we are on Earth to learn. You'd do better to seek other goals in life than
a car elevator and dancing horses. Mitt can answer for that himself, but I
won't be holding him up as an example as what is good. What is
good is a person that works with his own mind and hands for a living and not the
labors of others less powerfull.
OK I LOLed on this one. I hope you will accept my apology. "He takes in
$$$ Hundreds of Millions of donors TAX DEDUCTABILE donations to run for
President of the United States" Two points here:1.
Political donations are not "TAX DEDUCTIBLE."2. Where is Barak
Obama getting his $$$ Hundreds of Millions of donors so called TAX DEDUCIBLE
donations to run for President?
Esquire your right, "to know the background of the man who would lead the
nation." "I do care if he is overly secretive, giving the appearance of
hiding something. And I object to pulling down others, particularly when you
distort the facts, which are actually well known, public, and part of how we
treat the leader of this great country." So ask again who is Barak Obama and
what are the influences of his life? His mentor, and his father were
communists, but it is ok to ignore these influences. In his book he states he
sought the communists on campus, but we are not allowed to peer in to his past.
Why are his college transcripts hidden? Why do we not get to vet his history?
Please tell us what reason Obama has to hide who he is?
I think most people simply want decent paying jobs that provide them a
comfortable living--the ability to provide for the needs of their families.
People want a "cushion" between themselves and ending up on the street.
They want their children to get a quality education so they can also become
self-sufficient. People don't want to worry about a health crisis that
will leave them penniless.I don't think it is about
"coveting" wealth. It's about a system where wealth and power is
concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. Its about wealth purchasing power in
govt. to benefit themselves.If anyone is idolizing and worshipping
wealth it is the Republicans. In their minds, the wealthy are to be admired for
their intellect and hard work. But that may or may not be true. There's a
difference between George Romney and his son.
Capitalism, just as socialism, communism, or any other economic system that may
exist in the world today is flawed. The economic system to which Mitt, and all
of us who are LDS should subscribe is the Law of Consecration. Nothing we
accumulate in our lives belongs to us. Therefore, we ought to use whatever we
have for doing what God wants us to do.
I have a question for those who take the time to write a letter to the Deseret
News to try to convince others to vote for the Republican candidate. Why do you waste your time? Utah is a lock for Mitt Romney. Even if your
letter (no matter how misinformed or hyperbolic it is) draws half of President
Obama's supporters over to your side, does that make Utah have more than
the six electoral college votes that are already going to Mr. Romney?
I see other wealthy persons like Warren Buffet, Bill & Melinda Gates, Jon
& Karen Hunstman.They have HUGE Foundations dedicated to helping
the poor, sick, needy, and the under-priveldged and seek to better Human kind
with their wealth.They seek to better the world.Mitt
Romney has his wealth tucked away in secret Foreign accounts.Then,
Without even touching his OWN wealth -- He takes in $$$ Hundreds of
Millions of donors TAX DEDUCTABILE donations to run for President of the United
States, and seeks to rule the world.If Mitt Romney was using his own
"hard earned wealth" and not just using TAX DEDUCTIBLE donations, you
might have a point.But all I see is another spin doctor rationaizing a
Mr. Bender's letter misses the point entirely. No one is complaining about
the fact that rich folks exist. The complaint is _how_ some people get rich.If you can acknowledge that there are important differences between the
wealth of a Columbian drug lord and the wealth of a popular novelist, then you
must also recognize the importance of distinguishing between the wealth of a
person who wrote a valuable piece of computer software from a person who
achieved wealth by shipping US jobs overseas and avoiding taxes through Swiss
bank accounts and Cayman Islands tax shelters.The fact that Mitt
Romney, owner of Swiss bank accounts, beligerently refuses to make public more
than the last two years of his tax returns, when his own father shared 12 years
of returns when he ran for President in 1968, should make Americans deeply
skeptical of Mr. Romney's claim to be qualified to lead our nation.
Where was Russel's concerns over Presidents spending their own money for
vacations when Bush was President?Oh yeah, that's right, Russel
was silent on this issue during the Bush Administration. Consistency
is not exactly a common attribute among the right.
Somehow money "earned" by sending American jobs overseas doesn't
seem like it was earned honestly.And what about those foreign bank
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of
a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."-- Matthew
Isn’t coveting other people’s property a sin? How about,
“judge not, lest ye be judged”? Our problems are not because of how
Romney is spending HIS money but how Obama is spending OUR money! That’s
the real problem!
Our founding fathers left us an economic system of slavery focused on protecting
landowners and forbidding women and minorities the right to own property or
vote. It took almost 200 years for our GOVERNMENT to free the slaves and grant
civil rights to women and the descendents of slaves and other non-whites. The
"free market" didn't build that!What we had was a form
of "crony capitalism" centered on white men. Today, our capitalistic
system still is a "crony" system that favors fossil fuels, low taxes for
the wealthy, etc. Sadly, too many Americans are disenfranchised or
expoilted in this capitalistic system, especially single women with children,
who make up the vast majority of the proverty in this nation. A
government that offers daycare, low cost education, and ther opportunities to
uplift the disenfranchised is the cornerstone of a great nation. It's
third world nations that ignore the poor or seek ways to marginalize them to
reduce the tax burden of the protected classes.
Ah, but how do we know that the money was earned honestly and honorably? How he
did it is fair for discussion to know the background of the man who would lead
the nation. Seeing tax returns is appropriate to know what factors influence the
man. His tax rates are relevant to engage in a public discussion to determine
future policy. And there are more reasons. I don't care if someone is rich
or really how he spends his money. I do care if he is overly secretive, giving
the appearance of hiding something. And I object to pulling down others,
particularly when you distort the facts, which are actually well known, public,
and part of how we treat the leader of this great country. Bush, Reagan and all
presidents are treated the same, and so would Romney if he was to win (but he
And here I thought that the only righteous reason for seeking riches was
"for the intent to do good--to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and
to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the
afflicted." (Jacob 2:19) Silly me. I must have missed the part about
multiple McMansions, Cadillacs, car elevators, boats, costly apparel, dancing
horses, and accounts in the Caymans and in Swiss banks.
Nothing at all, as long as you spend it to help those who don't have enough
- without judging how they may have ended up that way. That is, if you claim to
believe certain sacred texts.