Which presidential candidate is ahead today? Polls are driving me nutty

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  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 28, 2012 6:56 a.m.


    My point is that history would suggest that Romney is (was) a moderate Republican. I believe that deep down, he still is.

    Do you disagree?

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 11:08 p.m.

    @JoeBlow "[H]e's not a good liar....[H]e's not Obama."

    But I repeat myself.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 27, 2012 9:47 p.m.

    "You're equating "integrity" as "holding views that you like","

    Not even close. Here is why Romney has lost credibility.

    Mass health care law was a great accomplishment. But he runs away from it to satisfy the far right. The mandate was a Republican Idea and Romney implemented it. Now it is unpopular and he runs from it. And you know why.

    That is not integrity.

    I would respect Romney had he said, "Look, I will look at the current problems and let my findings dictate a solution."

    Instead, he already knows how to fix the problems. Increase military spending, and cut taxes and kill Obamacare.
    All of which sound eerily like like all of the GOP talking points.

    You tell me. Has Romney always been lock step in those positions, or did he morph during his presidential run?

    It is clear to me. And that is why his integrity is in question.

    He is a moderate Republican, trying to placate the far right by telling them exactly what they want to hear. And he is struggling to do that because hes not a good liar. But, they are out of other options and he's not Obama.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 7:35 p.m.

    Voice of Reason ---
    I'm an Engineer -- I know all about Integrity.

    As for a person's Integrity, it simply means NOT Flip-Flopping on one's core values.

    Mitt Romoney is a Class A++ Flip-Flopper on just about every political issue you can name.

    Gay Marriage [he signed it into law in Mass. as Gov.]
    Woman's right Choose,
    RomneyCare [his finest achievement as Gov.],
    Gun rights,
    Tax-loop holes,
    you name it, he's flipped on it - just to appease the extremeist Tea-Party in the GOP to win the nomination...and now he can't Etch-a-Sketch his way out it, fast enough.

    Hence - Lack of Integrity.

    As a Mormon, he should heed Pres. Hinckley's admonition and "Stand for Something".

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 4:56 p.m.

    Actually, Obama needs between 2 and 5 of the swing states minimum to win, depending on which ones break for him. My point is, based on history, it's quite likely that only one - Wisconsin - may break for him. We'll see.

    And the reason Romney is doing so well against Obama is BECAUSE of his unusual amount of integrity. You're equating "integrity" as "holding views that you like", which is typical leftist arrogance...integrity and honesty can't exist in opinions different from your own. I'm guessing you're referring to some positions - insurance mandate, etc. - that really are right in line with his current positions and aren't contradictions in the way you think they are. Or maybe you mean on the couple of issues on which he's changed over time, which to you are obviously only cynical political maneuvers, not heartfelt changes in opinion. I'm also guessing that in your mind Obama's many opinion changes are the product of "thoughtful reconsideration", completely above politics, like gay marriage.

    We all have our biases, LDS Lib. We just need to give at least a little benefit of the doubt to the other side.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 1:56 p.m.

    I'm using Voice of Reason's ONLY reliable poll (Rassmussen) --

    Obama has secured 88% of the Electoral votes needed to win
    Romney has secured 71% of the Electoral votes needed to win.

    Obama is therfore 17% ahead of Romney and needs only 2 of the remaining 10 battleground states to cinch it all up.

    FYI - Voice of Reason....
    I'd really hoped Mitt Romney could have been a man of integrity -- meaning not waffling on his values - and ran on the principles he had as Governor of Massachucetts.

    I (and the 40% of the other affiliated Americans) could have voted for him.

    However, to win the GOP and Tea Partiers approval and nomination, Mitt morphed into a hideous Frankenstein Politician that only his creators could love.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 1:22 p.m.

    With a Quinnipiac poll today showing Romney down 10 points in Ohio and a Washington Post poll yesterday showing him down 8 points there, an obvious question is does he have a plan B to win the election without Ohio? The short answer is: "Not a realistic one." Assuming Obama wins all the states the Democrats have won in the previous five elections--which seems increasingly likely--then Obama has 242 electoral votes. Add to that Ohio and he is at 260. Now add New Mexico, which looks hopeless for Romney, to Obama's total and he has 265 of the 270 he needs. That means Romney would need to win Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Florida, North Carolina, and Virginia. That's a tall order given that he is way behind in some of them.

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 11:43 a.m.

    "Of the 105 Toss-ups, 95 of those votes all went for Obama in the last election."

    And that, right there, is the same trap that the less-accurate polls fall for: assuming that the previous election is an accurate predictor of this one. New flash: 2008 was a sharp detour from the norm for many states. Yes, in 2008 all but one of those nine toss-up states went for Obama. But in 2004, all but one went for Bush.

    Of those 9 toss-up states, eight - all but one (Wisconsin) - historically go Republican by a margin of 2 to 1 on election day. Even with all those left-biased polls out there trying to shore him up, Obama knows he's in deep trouble on the only poll that matters: Election Day.

    However, I do give you credit for looking at what really matters: the electoral college race.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 11:11 a.m.

    @Voice of Reason
    "Before then and since then, in virtually every election - including 2010 - Rasmussen has been the most accurate or has tied for the most accurate."

    They were actually pretty bad a few years with a bias of over 3 points in favor of republicans (their massive 25ish point error in the Hawaiian senate race sure didn't help) when Nate Silver calculated the bias of various polling firms. Silver's more recent update to the bias scores has Rasmussen improved to being R+1.8 which is about middle of the road in terms of bias scores. I see no reason to ignore Rasmussen polls, don't get me wrong, I just think that the average of polls is the best thing to use so I use the Real Clear Politics average of many polling firms including Rasmussen. In addition, I use Silver's model which also incorporates a lot of polling firms, accounts for their biases in either direction, and their accuracy (larger samples are worth more, more proven polling firms are given more weight, etc).

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 11:11 a.m.

    Intrade is a prediction market. It allows people to bet real money on whether or not certain events will occur. They have a very good track record. They currently give President Obama a 75% chance of winning the election, and a 61% chance of getting over 320 electoral votes.

  • Utah Businessman Sandy, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 10:25 a.m.

    @Ernest T. Bass
    "Romney has a huge lead. That's what I heard Carl Rove and Beck tell me so I know it's true."

    When did you hear that? I watched Carl Rove on Fox last night and he said it is a "toss up"--I suggest that your comment is typical left-wing stretching of the truth.

    Another question for all of you liberals--we all know what dunderheads conservatives are, so how in the world can it be that Utah, which is run almost entirely by conservatives, has one of the very best economies in the nation year after year?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 9:46 a.m.

    Voice of Reason
    Layton, UT
    Rasmussen is consistently the most accurate presidential and congressional tracking poll for well over the past 10 years,


    Blah, blah, blah whatever...

    Using RASSMUSSEN as my source VoR,

    Obama holds 237 votes
    Romnye has 196 votes

    Toss-up = 105

    That being said,
    Of the 105 Toss-ups,
    95 of those votes all went for Obama in the last election.

    Even IF the President lost a majority (2/3) of those votes -- He'd still hit 268 of the magic 270 to win.

    All other polls combined (Real Clear Politics) show the Elector College at ;
    347 Obama
    196 Romney.
    [but the DN monitor won't approve that one for some silly reason]

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Sept. 27, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    In 2008, Rasmussen said that Obama was 5 to 6 points ahead of McCain here in Oregon. Obama won my state by 17 points.

    That's how much stock I put in Rasmussen.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 9:34 a.m.

    This is the only poll that matters:

    Obama = 347
    Romney = 191

    270 Electoral College votes are needed to win.

    Anything else is just a side-show.

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 9:32 a.m.

    Rasmussen is consistently the most accurate presidential and congressional tracking poll for well over the past 10 years, with the single glaring exception of 2000. Before then and since then, in virtually every election - including 2010 - Rasmussen has been the most accurate or has tied for the most accurate. There are a number of reasons for this, but the biggest by far is that they use current real-world party affiliation percentages to set their samples of likely voters, not party splits based on the previous election which are literally always wrong and not representative of the present, and too many other polls sample "registered voters" instead of "likely voters", so they're really just looking at the opinions of people on the voter rolls, not the opinions of people who are going to actually vote. BIG difference!

  • Makid Kearns, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 9:05 a.m.

    It all depends on which state you are in. In Utah, Romney is leading nearly 2 to 1. Yet in California is is Obama nearly 2 to 1. In swing states, Obama is up by an average of 6 points.

    So, if the election was today, Obama would garner approximately 311 points and Romney would be struggling to get 200 point. One only needs 270 to be declared the winner.

    The closer the election comes, the greater the lead that Obama is making. He is providing real solutions to Romney's vague answers. The general public wants answers.

    Republicans can't win if they are to far to the right of center. Obama is closer to the center than Romney by a long shot and this is why he is currently ahead.

    If Romney comes closer to center most Republicans won't vote for him as they will label him a RINO. That is why Hunstman didn't do better in the primary the fringe is killing the party on national races.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 27, 2012 8:58 a.m.

    Romney has a huge lead. That's what I heard Carl Rove and Beck tell me so I know it's true.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Sept. 27, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    Again facts are a nasty thing. Rasmussen polling was the least accurate of all the major polls in 2000, and 2010. Both times their polls strayed from the norm by 4 to 5 points. They tied with Pew in 2008 when their results were pretty much the same as the others just a tiny bit more accurate. So now that even Gallup (Republican leaning)had Obama up by 6 points on Wed. and Rasmussen was the only poll who had Romney in the lead, which year do you think they are on track to repeat..2008, or 2010?