We are strong Latter-day Saints, we are Democrats, and we are in harmony with our religion

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  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 11:06 p.m.

    bcspace, reading comments like yours only reaffirms why I stay as far away as possible from your church. 

    My mother, however, is an active member of the LDS Church. She is also rather conservative, but because of what she sees as the negative influence of the tea party on the Republican party my mother has recently voted Democrat in some races. She even voted for Obama in 08 and had an Obama yard sign in her yard (not put up by her, but by her grandson) Well, because of this yard sign some members of the LDS church thought they needed to let my mother know how uh. . . misguided she is. 

    Obviously it is none of their business. I have offered to chat with these "Christian" people and let them know exactly what I think of their politics. My mother has demurred. 

    To believe that voting Democrat is in any way counter to the teachings of the LDS church is the height of presumption and arrogance. My mothers church has been very clear on this point. To think otherwise puts you at odds with your church leaders. Hardly a tenable position. 

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    To "DC" have some hope. If you listen to what the liberals say about the GOP, they say that it is being taken over by the Tea Party. That is totally not the same as towing the GOP line. There are many people out there trying to change and fix the GOP, and not let it be just a different version of liberalism.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2012 6:42 a.m.

    Though both parties agree on certain issues, what they disagree on is how to go about addressesing those issues.

    If the democrats could learn to be more tolerant of those who wish to have traditional marriages and families, would cut spending, introduce ways to create jobs rather than role out more food stamps, actually end war rather than speak against it and then increase the killing, tell us the truth about the environment, weren't in the pockets of big greedy businesses and greedy environmental groups, stopped attacking religion and be accepting of it, stop playing the race card and instead work to bring people together....then you would have a fairly strong party. Instead, like other political parties, it is run by special interests groups who will finance them.

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    Sept. 20, 2012 6:41 a.m.

    The way I see it -

    To be a Democrat, you don't have to accept every tennet of the Dem party to be a Dem - they have the big tent philosophy - come one, come all, no matter what you may believe. Yes, this could cause issues in the future, especially between factions in the party.

    For the GOP, they are more about towing the party line - accept it all or don't join in. I know this isn't absolute, but it kind of feels that way.

    For me, personally, I see myself as more of a Republican because of some of the underlying philosophies espoused by the party, but the condescending actions of the party on some of its members (if they don't tow every party principle) annoys me - and it makes the Dems more attractive.

  • bcspace Preston, ID
    Sept. 19, 2012 2:27 p.m.

    Dear marxist,

    Liberals, leftists, and anyone else are indeed welcome into LDS society and into the Church. The problem is going to be that philosophies like Socialism and the Welfare state, gay marriage, feminism (third wave and higher), abortion as a general method of birth control, and peace-at-any-cost/appeasement are contrary in very important ways to fundamental LDS doctrines.

    The Church of course believes it's own doctrine and expects that a person exposed to them and the Spirit will ultimately shed those philosophies and values which conflict with the Gospel. It is erroneous to think that just because the Church takes no action or doesn't publicly speak out, one's beliefs must necessarily be justified.

    I know several Democrats who want to speak up about their views in Church but can't because they know they are wrong or are in opposition to the Church's doctrine. I wish they could and would speak up so we can have a conversation and put to rest the erroneous notion that such views are compatible with LDS doctrine.

  • bcspace Preston, ID
    Sept. 19, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    While the principles of helping the poor are found in both parties, the tendency among Democrats to support Socialism and the Welfare state to achieve this goal runs counter to LDS doctrine.

    Neither King Benjamin or Mosiah proposed or set up a tyrannical system of heavy taxes, forced welfare, and redistribution. Rather, they worked with their own hands and appealed to the individual for real charity.

    Official LDS doctrine on the Law of Consecration (D&C Institute manual Enrichment section L) includes as it's fundamental principle, private property and the free used of it. It specifically rejects Socialism and the erroneous notion that Acts 4 is an invitation for Christian communalism.

    It rejects making everyone equal in terms of wealth. Rather the Lord defines equal as everyone's wants and needs as being equally valid. It ends with the concept of "no forced actions" no matter how worthy the goal is.

    It's not even an economic system as it does not control price or production. It does not preclude profit or capital investment. It essentially requires free market capitalism to work. Even the Lord's system of salvation is free market capitalism (Parable of the Talents, etc.)

  • Demo Dave Holladay, UT
    Sept. 19, 2012 12:44 p.m.

    I am so sick and tired of the argument that Democrats favor abortion I could puke! Come on Republicans, is that all you’ve got? It’s about choice. Life is about choice. Free agency is about choice. (You have heard of free agency, right?) There is such a thing as justified abortion. There always has been. Even the Mormon Church agrees that there are instances where abortion is allowed.

    If a woman chooses to have an abortion, justified or not, it’s her choice, not yours. If this is the only reason for your parasitic, paranoid attachment to Republicanism, you may want to reconsider your priorities.

  • Demo Dave Holladay, UT
    Sept. 19, 2012 12:30 p.m.

    Thank you, Crystal. Well done!

  • TombstoneJim Tombstone, AZ
    Sept. 19, 2012 10:39 a.m.

    16 trillion in debt. More people on welfare that ever. Government take over of an automobile company - which they now don't want to sell back. Open support for homosexual marriage. Openly supporting abortion on demand - it is not rare. No prayer in schools (everywhere the Saints have the opportunity we have school day release Seminary for our children – shouldn’t all parents have that option?)

    President Monson and the Brethren have spoken so clearly on the above topics in EXACT opposition to the Democratic partys stands.

    The Churchs Relief Society, Home Teaching and Welfare Program should be the models that Latter Day Saints look to for how to actually assist people. Not a bloated centrally controlled and exercised program of the federal dole.

    However, if you chose to align yourself with the equivalence of Kings Men during this hour of great need for this nation, then so be it.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 19, 2012 8:42 a.m.

    To "Screwdriver" you are wrong.

    We wil use Obama as the example of the typical Democrat, since he was the canidate supported by a majority of Democrats.

    Democrats are Marxists. Marxism is founded on the primary principal of redistribution of wealth. In 1998, and again in 2008 while campaigning Obama stated that wealth needs to be spread around using the arm of government.

    Democrats are not "their borther's keeper". When Obama's brother George needed $1000 to cover medical bills (he lives in absolute poverty), he got help from Dinesh D'Souza, not Obama. How can Democrats claim to be their brother's keeper if strangers are the ones taking care of their brothers.

    You seem to have missed the multiple articles that show how Obamacare is going to create a Dr. shortage. You will have people dying because they can't get into see a doctor.

    So far, the facts show that what you assert is a lie.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Sept. 19, 2012 2:39 a.m.

    Republicans have to make up false arguments about what a democrat even is.

    We're not communists and I've never met a democrat that wanted to force abortions on anyone.

    We don't want people and especially kids to go hungry. We don't want people to die and leave thier children alone because they couldn't see a doctor and treated for curable diseases. We see no need for a 70 year old man to be huffing it or begging for food. We think labor has dignity and should be respected and fairly compensated.

    I hear we are all things evil from the right but your latest pophet is Ayan Rand and democrats are working towards a more christlike society where we ARE OUR BROTHER'S KEEPER.

    You calim to be the religious right but all those quotes from the scriptures to take care of you fellow man really don't make you credible.

  • docrob Laie, HI
    Sept. 19, 2012 12:30 a.m.

    I taught for many years at BYU Hawaii. There I had access to students from all over the world. I had a hobby that I should have turned into a research project. I would ask the students, "in your country is there "one true party?" That is is there a party that LDS all support or feel that they should support? Most of them thought the question was rediculous or silly, mostly because they didn't usnderstnd it. But when they did, they all said that there certainly was NO party that all the members felt they should support. Nor was there any party that a member might support that would make you be looked down on. I never found a country where that ws the case. Well, one student said, "most of our members are Socialists!" We had a classic case where a religion teacher was fulminating against Socialism. The hands went up, "You mean like my Bishop in New Zealand?" Or my Stake Presidnent in Australia?" The teacher went into shock and dismissed the class early.

  • haggie Visalia, CA
    Sept. 18, 2012 11:32 p.m.

    Cougar Dem,

    Utah ranks in the top ten in nearly every educational category. So money is not the object here. I live in California where we outspend nearly every state except New York and we are no better off than Utah. The only thing we get is a Union entrenched system that we can't do anything about except sink more money into the pit.

    I agree that the glory of God is intelligence. Let's use our heads for something other than sound bites. Let's get creative. The baby boomers grew at a pace three or four times as fast as we are and they were able to be taught in a system that was world renowned and consumed far less of our fiscal revenues than we do now. If Utah can do it that cheap, lets learn something from it.

  • CougarDem SANDY, UT
    Sept. 18, 2012 3:38 p.m.

    haggie:
    I was referring more to elementary and secondary education here in Utah. Utah spends the least per pupil in education than any other state, thanks to a Republican Legislature. How can our kids be internationally competitive, "learn how to fish", when our state won't put the money in? Are those little kids supposed to go out and get jobs so they can go to private schools with smaller class sizes and more qualified teachers?
    "The glory of God is intelligence". Let's give our kids the quality education that they deserve, so they can make it in life. That takes money, which means tax revenue.

  • haggie Visalia, CA
    Sept. 18, 2012 2:18 p.m.

    Cougar Dem,

    Conservatives, including the Republicans are simply sick and tired of government intruding in our lives. Heck, this was the cry of the 60's beatnicks and liberals. Today the Dems use hyperbole to ignite a disenfranchised population. They need votes. To tell everyone that if a Repub gets into office all your hard earned goodies from the government will be taken away is hogwash. We need to learn to be self sufficient. We need to learn to take the bull by the horns and get through the slosh. The government is not my mommy and I am tired of folks thinking they should be.

    The Church beleive so highly in educaiton it charges 25% of cost to attend Church schools. But this is a private venture.

  • haggie Visalia, CA
    Sept. 18, 2012 2:11 p.m.

    Jeff (Temple City CA), my thoughts on your thoughts:

    1. Schwartzenegger was an extremely liberal Republican. In fact he is credited with killing Senatorial Candidate Mitt Romney's shot at Kennedy's US Senate seat.

    2. No one has ever said the Repubs speak for the Church except for Democrats.

    3. A conservative (not necessarily Republican) view is that we should have a limited amount of government. It does not say throw disable folks and granny off the cliff, shoot all folks of foriegn birth, etc.

    It is time to stop the hyperbole (and the hyper-bull). The government is bloated. People are tired of half their income being siphoned off to the governemnt.

  • haggie Visalia, CA
    Sept. 18, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    It is time to be honest with ourselves. There are positions in the extreme of each political perspective that are not in harmony with the teachings of the Church ( far right Legalize Drugs and Tax them, Abortions at any time are appropriate segments of the left).

    We are asked to choose political candidates and public policy based on our own conscience.

    Every single time the Church has gotten involved in politics it is to stop laws from going into place that are on the Democratic party platform (ERA in the 70's, Abortion in the 80's and Gay Marriage in the 90's and 00's).

    I am (as George Romney once said) a liberal with my money and a conservative with the use of government. Please Dems, wake up and stop thinking the Government can provide for us. Take all your hard earned money and benefit your family and community and quit trying to compel all of us to live your utopian fantasies.

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    Sept. 18, 2012 12:27 p.m.

    I suppose it is true that, at an LDS Democrat, I have to overlook the Party's leaning in faovr of same-gender marriage and I have to finesse the party's attitudes toward abortion. I am, therefore, a pro-traditional marriage, pro-life Democrat (who does not believe abortion should be outlawed in all cases).

    But if I were a Republican, I would have to overlook the many disabled people I know who rely on government help to survive. I would have to overlook the immigrants who deserve the same chance my ancestors got. I would have to overlook the way unhindered capitalism hinders the Law of Consecration. I would have to overlook all the people that say that Mormonism and the Republican Party are equivalent, thereby driving most of the world out of the Church.

    I tried being a Republican for awhile, but Calfornia Republican governors Pete Wilson and Arnold Schwartzenegger helped me see the error of my ways. I might consider dropping all party affiliation, but I believe it is good for the Church that someone can stand up and say, "No, the Republican Party does not speak for the LDS Church."

  • CougarDem SANDY, UT
    Sept. 18, 2012 8:10 a.m.

    To Twinsfallid:
    I'm all about teaching a man to fish, but the Republicans are into slashing education and student loan funding. Teaching a man to fish is more in line with the Democratic Party.
    I'm a Democrat because I am a Mormon.
    Thank you, Crystal, for an outstanding editorial.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Sept. 18, 2012 7:44 a.m.

    Re: "Politicians on both sides of the aisle lie."

    True -- but we Democrats adopt lying as revered dogma and a mandatory sacrament of active party affiliation.

    Strict Democrat "big-tent" orthodoxy requires us, not just to tolerate, but to embrace and advance the agenda of every constituency in the tent. We're not free to enter, then oppose abortion; Big Labor; environmental extremism; deranged open-borders policies; anti-business, anti-poor energy policy; weak national defense policy; antisemitic, anti-Israel policy; pro-perversion, anti-family policy, etc.

    Our party line is, instead, to spin and lie about our stand in each of these areas, so as not to scare away the rubes.

    We talk of women's freedom to choose, while taking that freedom from millions of unborn women. We tout people's right to organize, knowing Big Labor oppresses, rather than represents people. We talk of caring for mother earth, knowing that socialist environmental policy will force America into a depression, devastating the earth.

    Etc., etc., etc. -- it's all spin and lies.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Sept. 18, 2012 6:58 a.m.

    There will come a time possibly in the near future that a new party arises that incompasses all the aspects of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. To me right now the Republican party meets most of that. However, there are a lot of good people that are democrats that we as members of the republican party should not shun or put off. They can be as diligent and as faithful as I am. It is not for me to judge their worth just because they are a democrat.

    In recent years I've become more of an independent than a republican because I see the republican party changing its idealogy from what it was. If you really take a careful look at the LDS Church's stand on abortion, the democratic party itself reflects that stand. However, President Obama doesn't reflect that stand. If you look the LDS Church's stand on same sex marriage, the republican party reflects that stand. However, President Obama doesn't reflect that stand. That is where I stand for this election. The economy whether you like it or not is more a reflection on Congress.

  • Kouger Lehi, UT
    Sept. 18, 2012 12:09 a.m.

    So how do you (author and other Dems) feel when the Democratic Party is NOT COMFORTABLE with GOD in their platform? Re: removing "God" and then reluctantly putting Him back again. It's the bottom line! And please don't use the so-called separation of church & state issue in your answer because it is not! The Democratic Party will be God-less in the future. Will you still be Democrats then?

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 17, 2012 4:55 p.m.

    LDS liberal: Comments aren’t rejected based on that criteria. I hope you were joking. Somalia has no real functioning government. It is basically anarchy, and is what I had in mind with my original comment about anarchy. If you really think it is a Tea Party utopia, you are not being honest about the true views of the Tea Party. You unfairly maligned them. Zion is governed only by revelation/direction from God, and not by coercion, nor by forced tax donations. True charity is not enforced by the IRS. The Law of Consecration is, by definition, a celestial law. Who goes to the celestial kingdom?

    Eric Samuelson: No, I won’t judge any particular lady without knowing the facts about her particular case. But are you saying that each of the millions of abortions are really justified due to a truly legitimate reason? We had a deformed baby in the womb and were offered the chance to abort; we chose not to. She was born, lived for two days, and is part of our forever family now. So it is not like I have no understanding of the matter.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 4:50 p.m.

    "there is only ONE judge."

    Apparently he lives in Chicago and routinely cries "I judge you to be judgmental" with no sense of irony.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Sept. 17, 2012 4:32 p.m.

    @patriot

    "here's the bottom line folks" - Here's Patriot's bottom line.

    "There are certain basic truths" - I believe in these basic truths. Arrogance states that they ARE the basic truths.

    "1. Charity
    2. Service
    3. Love of God by keeping his commandments
    4. Abstaining from murder"

    "I would say that #4 is what makes being a practicing democrat impossible and expecting to find yourself in the Celestial Kingdom." - Most practicing democrats don't believe in your Celestial Kingdom. They don't believe God practices segregation in Heaven.

    "Of course, this is not for me or anyone else to judge" - You shouldn't be judging in the first place.

    "there is only ONE judge." - And it's not you. The one judge that may exist forgives ...

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 4:17 p.m.

    here's the bottom line folks - political parties don't exist on the other side of the veil! There are certain basic truths that we will all be weighed in the balance against such as the following...

    1. Charity
    2. Service
    3. Love of God by keeping his commandments
    4. Abstaining from murder

    I would say that #4 is what makes being a practicing democrat impossible and expecting to find yourself in the Celestial Kingdom. Whether you are the mother or father or doctor or senator or party member who enabled the politician... you will have plenty of blood on your hands and there will be no ACLU or political action group to protect you. Of course, this is not for me or anyone else to judge - there is only ONE judge.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 3:43 p.m.

    RG,
    I'm grateful my Mom didn't abort me either. But 'for convenience' is a loaded phrase. You don't know, and cannot judge what the motivations are for women having abortions. You don't know their desperation, their fear, their quite legitimate reasons.
    That's why abortion needs to remain as is. Her choice. Period.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 3:43 p.m.

    I don't believe any political party has any particular divine basis and the whole Mormon/Democrat argument is pretty lame, since LDS were predominantly Democrat until they were lost in the 1960's (It is the party's job to attract constituents - not vice versa).

    There are many issues where I actually agree with the Democrats more (such as public lands, mass transit, environments sensitivity - not extremism). Having said that; I m not LDS and I have a hard time voting Democrat based mostly upon their capitulation to extremist and politically correct bullies and a generalized hostility towards religion, unauthorized speech and personal responsibility. Coupled with an obsession with big Government and dependency (see Obama's infamous "war on women" Julia brochure; can anyone be more pathetic?)

    I don't see how one can be a good Mormon and an active Democrat, but that is merely because I don't see how anyone can buy into the extremist shrill politically correct hypocrisy and hate of liberal democrats in general, regardless of religion. Until the left is as offended by Dan Savage as they are by Fred Phelps - they lost my vote

    In short;
    Nancy Pelosi scares me

  • tigger AMERICAN FORK, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 3:37 p.m.

    Good article. Boring responses

  • Samuel the Liberalite Farmington, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 2:19 p.m.

    Rick2009
    MESA, AZ

    Regardless who wins this upcoming presidential election they will be lead by the behind the scenes people in power who want us in a new world order like Bush and Clinton have talked about. So we are being lead down the path to loss of liberties by both parties. so people in Utah and elsewhere need to wake up.

    9:19 p.m. Sept. 16, 2012

    ===========

    You know Mitt Romney attended Conference this past May 31-June 3 2012, in Chantilly, VA.

    The BILDERBERG Conference that is....

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 1:08 p.m.

    RG
    Buena Vista, VA
    This was rejected before, I honestly don't know why.

    ======

    I do.
    It was wrong.

    Better Read up on the United Order, and Zionism.

    And FYI -- Zion, the New Jerusalem is not a "Members Only" club.
    No one needs to be a member OR hold the Melchezedik Preisthood to live there or follow it.

    FYI -- No one is "Forcing" or "Coercing" you to live in America.

    Somalia seems the best example of a Tea-Party Utopia.

    Small, Non-Interferring, low-tax Government,
    controlled by Free, Unrestricted and Unregulated Market Forces (i.e., extortionists and Pirates),
    One Political Party and ONE recognized Religion,
    No Medical Assistance,
    No Infrastructure and
    No Education.

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 17, 2012 12:55 p.m.

    Truthseeker: Let’s rephrase the analogy. The “battle” in the premortal existence over agency is over, but the “war” still continues. If we follow Satan, he will take away our agency, even now.

    Eric Samuelson: “ I know the rhetoric is that most abortion are ‘for convenience.’ That is not the reality.” Yes, it is the reality. Abortion for rape or incest or mother’s life is very rare, relatively speaking. Yes, men do have legitimate opinions on abortion. I’m a man, and am grateful my mom didn’t abort me.

    Real Maverick: The GOP “Bashing education?” Nope. The Chicago teachers get 75K and want more; their unions bash education. “Tax cuts to the rich”: cuts help the rich to create jobs. “Lying about WMDs?” Even Democrats believed they existed. Hillary said so herself in no uncertain terms. But the mainstream press conveniently forgot that fact. “Hating women?” Half of all aborted babies are girls. The unborn would choose to be born. Where’s their freedom of choice?

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 17, 2012 12:52 p.m.

    This was rejected before, I honestly don't know why. So I'll try again. I compare anarchy –everyone in fear and chaos – to outer darkness. I compare totalitarian regimes (eg communism) to the telestial kingdom, where lies and murders are the norm. I compare capitalism to the terrestrial kingdom. This, to me, is where the GOP party is. Socialism is somewhere between telestial and terrestrial. This, to me, is where the Democrat party is. Notice as we go up in levels, freedom and personal responsibility increase. The celestial level is the law of consecration. Its ideals of “no poor among them” are what many democrats seek. But they won’t find it in secular government. It is the highest, freest system of all; but it won’t work by coercion; it only works under direct revelation of God, by priesthood covenant. It is even higher than the GOP’s free capitalism ideals, but until its formal implementation, capitalism is the best we’ve got for a nationwide system. But, even without formal implementation we must follow the spirit of the law of consecration.

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Sept. 17, 2012 12:16 p.m.

    I am interested to know what kind of reaction an LDS delegate would get if he or she stood in front of the Democratic Convention, on national TV, and stated: "I practice abstenance," or "I practice chastity>"

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 12:12 p.m.

    We are LDS - We are Democrat and we support the booing of God at our convention and the snub to Israel as well. If I am LDS and not a member of the GOP then I HAVE to be a registered INDEPENDENT because the Democratic party nationally is much too toxic with it's platform of "anytime anywhere abortion", gay marriage and flat out socialism - communism. President Benson made it very clear regarding Karl Marx and his political influence that the Democratic party has now adopted.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 11:28 a.m.

    Let's read the LDS policy and compare platforms;

    The Church allows abortion for its MEMBERS when:
    - Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or
    - A physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or
    - A physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive.
    - ...should be considered after consulting with local church leaders.

    --------

    The Democratic platform states: "Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way."

    The Republican platform seeks passage of a constitutional amendment that would extend legal rights to the unborn, essentially banning ALL abortions with NO exceptions
    -- even in the cases of Rape, Incest, Life and Health of the Woman, and viability of the fetus.
    [running diametrically 180 degrees opposed to LDS policy].

    The LDS church has been soft on illegal immigration
    and
    has publically encouraged gay rights (civil unions, domestic partnerships).
    The GOP is not only not in-harmony, but defiantly opposed with the LDS church.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 10:54 a.m.

    To sergio 9:27 a.m. Sept. 17, 2012

    Romney vs Reid, who is the liar; why dosen't Romney release his tax returns like he should and let the voters decide. What is he hiding, right now it looks like Reid is the honest one.

    -----------------

    Agreed. Willard could resolve this very quickly if he would do what his father, and other candidates for President, have done -- release 10-15 years of tax returns (in Willard's case, I would want them to go back to 1998-1999 so his activities at Bain could be properly evaluated). Even the 2010 return that he did release didn't have all the schedules -- he omitted those dealing with his foreign dealings and taxes. If Willard is willing to take the heat (and the threat to his campaign) by not releasing the returns, the logical assumption is that they must contain something which would be even more disastrous for him.

    Personally, I find Senator Reid much more believable.

  • Joan Watson TWIN FALLS, ID
    Sept. 17, 2012 10:13 a.m.

    One cannot compare the LDS church guide lines that restrict abortion to the liberal feminist and the Democrtic party's fight nail and tooth for unresticted abortion for what ever reason to murder an unborn child. In ones mind the Democrate were defined when there were as many nays as there were yeas when voting to have God be part of the party platform. Then a parade of glamoous sheath dressed Hollywood type starlets who gave inane speeches. Then of course Clinton! Ushering in and exiting to thunderous idolizing applause. Need one say more! Yes, add to all that our economic mess and our out of reach national debt and loss of jobs

  • sergio Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 17, 2012 9:27 a.m.

    Romney vs Reid, who is the liar; why dosen't Romney release his tax returns like he should and let the voters decide. What is he hiding, right now it looks like Reid is the honest one.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 9:08 a.m.

    To Cats 8:36 a.m. Sept. 17, 2012

    Wow! Denial is not a river in Egypt!

    -----------------

    You're right, and those on the extreme far right fringes of the poliical spectrum practice it in abundance.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 8:36 a.m.

    Wow! Denial is not a river in Egypt!

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 7:19 a.m.

    To the truth 7:50 p.m. Sept. 16, 2012

    I am quite sure that that personally many republicans are in harmony with their religion.

    But the party is not.

    And we are talking about the same party that advocates compelling righteous behaving according to planks in the platform (thereby advocating for the Adversary's plain)? This is a party that has been taken over by extreme right that has very strong authoritarian views,

    Perhaps those still in harmony with their religion can save it and can yank it back towards the center, but I don't think they can.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Sept. 17, 2012 5:45 a.m.

    It is unlikely that us will agree with a single party 100%. Whichever party we choose, let's use our influence to bring it closer to our values. In order to lead others to higher ground we need to be completely honest with them, use gentle persuasion, and be willing to tolerate any beliefs they have that offend us. We also should recognize when we are wrong and be willing to change.

    If there is any hypocrisy to be found, the best way to combat it is to correct the hypocrisy in our own lives. Other people of conscience will recognize our sincerity (if we are not faking it!) and will be drawn into stronger consensus.

  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    Sept. 17, 2012 12:18 a.m.

    I am delighted to see this new organization. Hopefully it can fulfill a role of uniting Americans. We need to be more positive in our messages as liberals, conservatives or any other party or belief.

  • wer South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 11:21 p.m.

    How nice. Of course, the Dems would welcome them with open arms-in an election year, parties will do anything to get votes. Political parties have changed drastically since Reagan.

    While the Republicans are hardly perfect, there are a few significant differences in platform and performance: Democrats have no love the "Defense of Marriage Act" (signed by Clinton as president) and the White House has led the charge to gut it; the Dems have stopped prosecuting porn producers; they are the party of "tolerance" with complete agreement with the homosexual agenda and the abortionists. While both parties are capable of over spending, the current Dems have made a spectacular push to cripple our economy. Should they remain in the White House, we can kiss protection for traditional family, true Christian values, and our personal budgets "good bye"!

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 10:31 p.m.

    RedShirt
    All, so what's your answer to the fact of abortion? To recognize that it exists, and that it's going to happen no matter what, how do you propose to deal with that reality? Pretend it doesn't happen? Jail doctors? Jail desperate women? I know the rhetoric is that most abortion are 'for convenience.' That is not the reality. I'm honestly not even sure any male has the standing to have an opinion on the issue.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 10:21 p.m.

    To "Truthseeker" you are wrong. The battle over agency is still raging. The war in heaven was only over who's plan would be followed. Now, Satan is fighting to get your agency signed over to him.

    To "Eric Samuelsen" you contradict yourself you say they Democrats "do not condone or encourage the slaughter of unborn children." then you state that "thousands of women, desperate to end a pregnancy they knew they could not, for whatever reason, carry to term". Which is it, do they condone ending pregnancies

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 9:59 p.m.

    and the GOP is in harmony with LDS doctrine? Really?

    Like giving tax cuts to the rich? Ignoring science? Bashing education (something which the LDS church has emphasized. The perp. Edu Fund helps many to gain an education)? Lying about WMDs? Wars? Leaving your wives and families to pursue romances in Argentina? Legalize the buying of our government? Focusing on guns and anger rather than what's good in Americans? Hating women? Taking away freedom of choice?

    I've seen plenty of Beck. I've heard plenty of Rush. I've seen the GOP and what they've done to the country I love over 8 years of Bush. I've seen what they've done to Obama and how much they hate the middle-class. I don't think the GOP is in more harmony with church doctrine than the Democrats.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 16, 2012 9:50 p.m.

    The leadership of the LDS Church has clearly stated that no party perfectly matches the teachings of the LDS Church and that LDS members can be in harmony with the Church while belonging to any political party - as long as they remember that no party perfectly reflects LDS values.

    The fact that some members of the LDS Church are so blatantly condemned by other members of their Church, because of a political choice sanctioned and supported by the Church leadership is clearly counter to the teachings of the Church.

    Perhaps you should worry more about the beam in your eye and less about the mote in others' eyes?

  • Rick2009 MESA, AZ
    Sept. 16, 2012 9:19 p.m.

    I don't see how anyone in the LDS church that LOVES LIBERTY can be a Democrat. Their values are so from what we believe and then to have Harry Reid act as he does in front of the cameras and the world is embarrassing. However I don't see how we can be Republicans either as they lie just as bad, Hatch is nearly as bad as Reid, and work to destroy our liberties as well.

    Regardless who wins this upcoming presidential election they will be lead by the behind the scenes people in power who want us in a new world order like Bush and Clinton have talked about. So we are being lead down the path to loss of liberties by both parties. so people in Utah and elsewhere need to wake up.

  • photographermom South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 9:17 p.m.

    Dear Democrats....whatever helps you sleep better at night. Republicans aren't perfect by any stretch but if you believe that being in bondage to your government, abortion and gay marriage are within the gospel standards then you need to reevaluate your beliefs.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 16, 2012 8:52 p.m.

    A person's religion is between him and his God. Each of us will answer to God for every thought and for every act. Telling a Democrat that his region doesn't allow him to be a Democrat is none of our business; however, stating the obvious is permissible. Pointing out a party's stance on God, on marriage, on abortion, and on self-reliance should be permissible. Telling someone that he can't believe in God unless he changes political parties is not permissible.

    If a Mormon wants to be a Republican or a Democrat, that is his right.

    My Grandmother thought that FDR walked on water because he provided welfare to her and her family. She didn't care who paid for the program and she didn't care whether the program was Constitutional. The fallout from that welfare is that four generations have looked to Washington for their food. Four generations have taught their children that they didn't have to work.

    The Church taught one thing and the government taught the opposite. She chose the government. That was her right. I disagreed with her politics but I loved her because she was my grandmother.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 8:23 p.m.

    @MFFL -- I'd probably have an easier time singing "I Believe in Christ" at the Democratic convention that I would at the Republican convention where 90% of the delegates would think I was singing about "another Jesus". (In case you hadn't heard, most evangelicals think that LDS people worship a different Jesus than the one they worship.)

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 7:50 p.m.

    I am quite sure that that personally many democrats are in harmony with their religion.

    But the party is not.

    And we are talking about the same party that BOOED God being put back in the platform? This is a party that has been taken over by extreme left that has very strong secular views,

    Perhaps those still in harmony with their religion can save it and can yank it back towards the center, but I don't think they can.

  • DistantThunder Vincentown, NJ
    Sept. 16, 2012 7:31 p.m.

    Look at Democrat controlled cities. The ones which have been controlled the longest like Chicago and DC have the highest murder rates, the highest drop out rates, the highest teen pregnancy rates, and the highest poverty rates. Everything the Democrats do engenders dependency and despair.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Sept. 16, 2012 7:04 p.m.

    As a Republican who occasionally does vote for Democrats (sometimes the Republican is simply not supportable), I welcome this.

    Others have mentioned the church's stance so I won't repeat it. But we might also do well to consider the views of George Washington who thought political parties (of any type) were not good for the nation. Reference his farewell address if you can. It is worthwhile reading for many reasons.

    Perhaps as our nation and culture drifts ever farther from truth and goodness, having active LDS on both sides of the political divide will be an advantage. I sincerely hope so.

    I think having good, faithful members in both of the principal parties will provide party members with good examples which will lead to more tolerance and love and more openness to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 6:33 p.m.

    republicans use the abortion card to attack all members of the Democratic Party to justify republican membership in the republican party.

    republicans never mention the fact that reagan signed an abortion bill that led to the murder of over 2,000,000 babies.

    Demonize the Democrats and adore reagan?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 16, 2012 6:11 p.m.

    Actually, I think there could be a lot of common ground between the parties.

    For example:
    Abortion. Most Democrats don't believe abortion should be used as a means of birth control. Democrats and Republicans could come together to reduce unwanted pregnancies and strengthen family units.

    Unemployment. Democrats also believe it is important for people to support themselves and in the long run people will be happier when they can be self-sufficient and contributors to society. The reality is, however, that there are people who, for a variety of reasons, will need constant assistance. Additionally, there are many jobs which don't pay a living wage. Do we just value people who perform certain kinds of work--those that pay well?

    re:banderson
    The battle for "agency" is over. Satan lost that battle.
    You live in a democracy. You have choices. You can vote and you can choose to obey/not obey laws. But there will always be consequences for the choices you make. You have agency, but you don't have unlimited freedom. As long as Democrats pay taxes for a big military I suppose Republicans will be paying taxes for social welfare programs.

  • Thinkin\' Man Rexburg, ID
    Sept. 16, 2012 6:00 p.m.

    I thoroughly enjoy the stereotypes Democrats use against Republicans and their policies, all the while claiming to be the tolerant, inclusive party. That includes the letter writer's inferences that Republicans are not compassionate and don't care for the poor. The reality is that Republicans give more to charity than Democrats (witness the candidates in this election), and have a stated policy that the reckless Federal spending supported by Democrats is cruel to the poor, all of our immediate future, and to our posterity.

    To support the Democrat platform, a Mormon and many other Christians would have to pick and choose what parts to pretend don't exist. That's illogical, hypocritical, and dangerous.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 5:04 p.m.

    One party claims a religious code of ethics. The same party is at war with poor people, is in favor of individual & corporate greed over feeding hungry children and would increase funding for the war machine.
    I've yet to hear how Jesus would justify more funding on building bombs.

  • MFFL ,
    Sept. 16, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    I applaud your efforts in bringing your faith to the democratic party. Next time sing "I Believe in Christ." From the party that voted three times against the mention of God in their platform, I wonder how that would be received.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 4:29 p.m.

    Kent Deforrest (and others who express this viewpoint, mostly liberal, democratic members of the lds church). I do not doubt the Lord's injunction for ecomomic equality that you so ardently want to have. I too want more people to earn the fruits of economic success for a myriad reasons. However, your methods for achieving it is based on man's approach, not the Lords. Under a government run by God, a lot of things would be different. You want to achieve economic equality through compulsion, something the Lord would never do. His kingdom has nothing to do with compulsion. Satan's approach is the one of compulsion. Men with power are not much different. With men in charge, whether republican, democrat, or autocrat, compulsion will only lead to one result, little or no liberty, no ecoomic growth, and destruction of life and God on a scale that leaves nations destroyed. Look at history to verify these words. Compulsion does not work. Bring about a better world by hastening His kingdom. Using government to do so not only shows ignorance of history, but places government above God. God can do His own work.

  • JP71 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 3:38 p.m.

    There is no mention of the Democratic pro-homosexuality position, pro-abortion position, anti-Israel position, and the party not wanting anything to do with God. Please help me to understand how an LDS person justifies supporting an organization that promotes this type of agenda. These are not little issues. These are issues that the LDS Church has stated will destroy society, see The Family: A Proclamation to the World. As a member of the LDS Church I do not associate or affiliate with organizations that promote these issues.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 2:36 p.m.

    It is always so interesting to read comments from "President dung beetle", "President samhill" and others who think they are now the leader of the church and can tell the rest of us something different from what our actual church leaders have said. Thanks, but I think I'll continue to listen to President Monson and other church leaders who have said that there is good (and presumably bad) in both political parties. I've never heard any actual church leader tell me that Republicans are the party of God. I've sure heard a lot of people who thought they were smarter than their church leaders say it.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 2:16 p.m.

    Mark, for the record, Mitt's Pinnochio rating is higher than Obama's. If you don't like misrepresentation and outright lying, then you should be uncomfortable with the Republican Pary.

    Sam Hill, I am LDS, and it is because of my religious beliefs that I could never become a Republican again. Their economic policies are what the scriptures refer to as "grinding the face of the poor." The LDS scriptures repeatedly promote economic equality. In fact, Joseph Smith's attempts at instituting the law of consecration had as their primary intent "that the poor shall be exalted, in that the rich are made low" (D&C 104:16).

    Nowhere in LDS scripture do I see any reference to economic freedom, which among Republicans is much more important than economic equality.

  • twinfallsid TWIN FALLS, ID
    Sept. 16, 2012 1:42 p.m.

    I almost stopped reading this letter at "helping the poor reach self-reliance". Really? Which of the programs, food stamps, medicaid, Obama-care helps reach self-reliance? "Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish....." Big difference. The people voting Democrat are not the ones using food stamps or medicaid while their trying to get a leg up. They are the ones who stay there and never learn to fish.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 1:38 p.m.

    The Democratic and Republican parties do not represent the best values of our founder's vision and America. The Democrats leaders and its followers have turned a blind eye to the 50 million abortions that have ocurred in this country since Roe V Wade, and add to that horror by not admitting the fact that 95% of all abortions are done out of convenience. Democrats do not represent the views of compassion and charity they so fondly attribute to their allegiance. It is deceit and power that drives their position. Socialism is not the answer, one they find all too accomodating to their beliefs. Republicans on the other hand talk of peace, but spend billions on a war machine that is Anti-Christ and debases the dignity of our standing in the world and here at home. No thank you. Both parties are patronizing and exist only to deceive and increase power. There are many good people in both parties, but when the real Americans wake up, political parties will dissappear and good government reappear. The battle for the hearts and souls of Americans is being sought through government control and compulsion, hardly a tenant of any christian faith.

  • dung beetle Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 12:52 p.m.

    And how about gay marriage and abortion on demand? Does Crystal support those elements of the democrat party's position? Does she really think they are compatible with the LDS religion?

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 12:24 p.m.

    Sam Hill
    The Democratic party does not condone or encourage the slaughter of unborn children. The Democratic party however does recognize the sad truth that desperate women will attempt to terminate their pregnancies. This has always been true, throughout human history. It was true in the early years of our Church. Prior to Roe v. Wade, thousands of women, desperate to end a pregnancy they knew they could not, for whatever reason, carry to term, were badly injured and sometimes even killed by using unsafe, often unsterile, methods, often performed by charlatans and crooks.
    We may prefer that that was not the case. We may wish that pregnancy always took place within the context of a loving, equal, mutually supportive committed marriage. But that is not the case, and never has been.
    The LDS church's position is that abortion is a tragedy, and can be a sin, under some circumstances, but that there are occasions where abortion is permitted, and for which it therefore should be legal. One such exception is when the health of the mother is in jeopardy. As President Clinton often said: abortion should be safe, rare, and legal. That's my position, as a Democrat.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 11:36 a.m.

    "...we believe that it is the Democratic Party that best meets our values: strengthening families, helping the poor reach self-reliance, compassionate immigration policies, being good stewards of the earth, protecting our sacred wondrous lands for future generations and making sure that every American child receives a quality education."

    ...

    "We are strong Latter-day Saints, we are Democrats, and we are in harmony with our religion."

    ===========

    I'm sorry Crystal, but from what I know of both the Democratic Party platform and the doctrines of the LDS church, the two are not and never will or could be "in harmony".

    No reasonable religion, or philosophy in general for that matter, could possibly be in harmony with a party and platform that does so much to condone, if not tacitly encourage, the slaughter of so many unborn and completely innocent children.

    You may be a member of both the Democratic Party and LDS church, but in harmony? Never.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 9:57 a.m.

    What a wonderful column. I was very moved by it, and completely agree.

    Mark, come on. Politicians on both sides of the aisle lie.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Sept. 16, 2012 8:24 a.m.

    Hello Marxist. One time I voted for a Democratic state senator because I felt the Republicans were takng my vote for granted and I thought we should do more to help the poor -- like my religion teaches. Two months later, the same senator stood up with the ACLU at an anti-abortion rally and announced that his fellow legialators were restricting abortion because of their religion and that was wrong. So I stopped voting Democrat because, as he said, it was wrong for me to vote because of my religion.

    Maybe the question are LDS values more in line with socialist values? I heard that Utah was the most socialist state in the US in 1900.

  • Mark from Montana Aurora, CO
    Sept. 16, 2012 7:00 a.m.

    There are many tenants of the LDS faith that fit well with the Democratic Party, same with the Republican Party. What I wish could happen is to take the best of both parties and combine them into a new party. It would be one that about 65% of Americans would join.

    What I dislike the most about the Democratic Party is the twisting and lying that take place. Harry Reid's comments about Mitt's taxes, from the Senate floor is the perfect example. I believe Reid was blatantly lying in his comments, all in an effort to retain power. I see many similar things taking place in the Republican Party, though I believe the Dems are most disingenuous nationally.

    I believe you would see a landslide win, such as never has been seen, if a candidate would embrace truth and honesty and the true values of the middle of the road and the middle class. The US does not need a military the size that we have, nor does spending billions on the 'war on poverty' done much good. The average American is more about trying to pay their own bills, while caring for their neighbor.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 16, 2012 12:55 a.m.

    Are liberals, or anyone on the left for that matter, welcome in LDS society? I have given up trying to answer that question because thinking about it is so anguishing. I wish the writer the best.