LDS Democrats gather in Charlotte to unite LDS values, Democratic policies at convention

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  • Utah Businessman Sandy, UT
    Sept. 12, 2012 1:59 p.m.

    As has been mentioned here, when we are "charitable" through government programs, there is a big question--is it "charity" when we pass a law that FORCES OUR NEIGHBOR to give to the poor? In my opinion, no. If we as LDS people are considering that question, my belief is that we should think back to what happened in the "war in heaven". Whose idea was it to force us to do good?

    Many will point to taxes that force us to pay for fire protection, etc. I have no problem with that because we are getting the benefit--if I am getting the benefit, then I should be REQUIRED to pay. When I go into a restaurant and order a meal, eat it and then walk out, it is proper that I be arrested and forced to pay for it. But how ridiculous would it be if an officer of the law should walk into that restaurant and force me to pay for the meal of the family at the next table because they are poor? On the other hand, if I voluntarily pay for the poor family, I am being charitable--HUGE difference!

  • antodav TAMPA, FL
    Sept. 9, 2012 4:01 p.m.

    Here's what Mormon Democrats don't understand: the hymn says "Has anyone's burden been lighter today because I was willing to share?", not "Has anyone's burden been lighter today because I made the government share other people's property with them?" Wresting the scriptures to promote income redistribution and socialism is a perversion of the Gospel and of the Law of Consecration.

  • Chumpley South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 9, 2012 7:42 a.m.

    Senator Reid has no fiscal responsibility, how can we as a nation keep borrowing money to give to people and countries that dont like ua? The debt the current administration has created is totally out of control. To align with Nancy and the rest of the Dems I just dont get it.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 8, 2012 6:16 p.m.

    Republicans appear to be less charitable and less compassionate because of their words. They judge those receiving govt. aid as lazy, "ner=do-wells." If I understand it correctly, Republicans/conservatives believe govt. programs create a large majority of lazy, unmotivated people.

    Why doesn't UT, with its large percentage of LDS members, demonstrate to the rest of the country how they can deal with problems of poverty etc. without govt. support? There are many posting on these boards who believe we don't need govt. programs and even some who suggest such programs go against the teachings of the LDS church and God. Perhaps it could start with a single ward. Members of the ward receiving govt. aid could forgo the aid and the ward could be in charge of helping/supporting them instead.

    Finally, Democrats don't support abortion, they support CHOICE. I used to believe that Republicans cared about the unborn--until they began to oppose education and expanding the availability of birth control. The problem we have isn't abortion it is UNPLANNED pregnancy (and yes, promiscuity). If Republicans really cared about the unborn--they would work with Democrats to decrease the number of unplanned pregnancies.

  • JBs Logan, UT
    Sept. 8, 2012 2:49 p.m.

    @Miss Piggie:

    Would you sit next to a Democrat in church? Or would your "moral" outrage prevent that from happening? What if someone from your ward needed your help and he or she was a Democrat? Your rhetoric suggests that you would not be there for them. I hope that you would put your negative feelings for the Democratic party and all of its LDS members aside and be a person who is a Christian above all else.

    Here's another question...Will you accept people in the church from other countries? What about those that live in Communist countries and have been commanded to follow the laws of their land? Do you want them excommunicated as well? The church would be very small made up of only people from the United States who are Republicans.

    Do you believe every word of the platform for your political party? Every word? Do you do every single thing mentioned in that platform? Every single thing? Well neither do I. Please don't tell me how I behave and believe, because, respectfully, you don't know.

    Sept. 8, 2012 9:12 a.m.

    Craig Janis is disingenuous when he insinuates that Republicans are found lacking when it comes to "loving their neighbor." People of conservative mindset have long been known to contribute more of their time and resources to humanitarian efforts than wealthier people of liberal convictions. The fact is that the Democratic Party platform proposes spending an excessive amount of the national budget on social programs which in turn encourage dependency on the government for one's support. Nothing bears this out more than the thousands of families reliant on welfare benefits for three and four generations. And now that the work requirement is de-emphasized by Democrats, the problem will worsen. Republicans believe in having an adequete safety net for those who cannot care for themselves, and a vibrant economy to provide employment for those who want to work. Four years of Democratic leadership has failed to improve our economy, and in many ways has made it worse. As a result, less people are working and the safety net becomes larger. (Read an excellent article at regarding conservative vs. liberal giving.)

  • sallys clovis, CA
    Sept. 7, 2012 4:09 p.m.

    You can't just say you are a person of faith and expect that to be sufficient. What is your faith in? Is it in Jesus Christ? Then why would you oppose Him and support the shedding of innocent blood in America? Democrats support abortion and thus you cannot be one of them without disobeying the Lord. Don't tell me LDS values are consistent with current Democratic policies. Anyone who believes that has either never read the Bible or just doesn't care what the Lord has to say.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 7, 2012 11:58 a.m.

    @Diane Earlywine
    "I do not want to put anyone down for their political choices"

    Yes you do, if you didn't you wouldn't continue your paragraph by suggesting your political choice is the Prophets and Lords' will.

    False, that church with the pavillion was in New Jersey, a state that does not allow gay marriage.

    @Captain Green
    "If they stopped to think about it, they would realize it was Satan's plan to force us all to be good (Democrat strategy)"

    And yet your church seems to be a-ok with people being Democrats, liberals, or even socialists (what? did you forget you have european members of the church?). Makes me think they see things differently than you do as to whether or not political parties can and should be considered in such a manner...

  • Allen Salt Lake valley, UT
    Sept. 7, 2012 8:52 a.m.

    A number of these comments have spoken of marriage. I find it interesting but inconsistent that liberty loving people actively support government regulation and control of marriage. If you really want liberty, then become active in getting government out of the marriage business. Let government be concerned about civil unions and let social groups define marriage how ever they will.

  • hillplus Aurora, CO
    Sept. 6, 2012 9:31 p.m.

    Lets see, Dem values include abortion on demand, kicking out God and throwing Israel under the bus. I am thinking that LDS values and Dem values are in conflict with one another. ;)

  • Ana Lena Great Northwest, WA
    Sept. 6, 2012 3:25 p.m.

    First of all, Harry Reid himself has been attacking Romney in a disgusting manner. Shame on him! Harry Reid is a BAD example to the LDS Church.

    Here's the deal NO one in the Republican Party has ever said that we shouldn't love our neighbor. People whether Republican or Democrat help one another. EVERYONE is there to help people during a disaster. For helping people long term we do it differently. We believe in helping people stand on their own two feet. Training them for jobs. The church believes that you need to be Self Sufficient. Welfare for ONLY a short time not for a Life Time! The church also DOES NOT condone Abortion. The church DOES NOT condone Gay Marriage. Removing God out of the Democratic platform the church will NOT condone that. Read the scriptures we NEED to STAND with Israel!

    Do your homework on Obama. Don't be a spoonfed American. Read, listen. He isn't a good guy. While I don't have a problem with past presidents on both sides. I do with Obama. His ideals are in that of his father's. BAD.

  • Lasvegaspam Henderson, NV
    Sept. 6, 2012 11:43 a.m.

    We Conservatives are not against helping the poor. We are against a bloated, out-of-control federal government bureaucracy doing the job. The job of helping the poor belongs MUCH closer to the people. The other monumental problem created by federal welfare is how those who are helped by the government become pawns in the political process. They become enslaved to that political party doing the "giving" (today, it's the Democrats). Enslavement of this sort is NO different from the slavery that was, supposedly, abolished in 1865. Slavery, simply defined, is the theft of a person's labor, and, thus, their ability to freely support themselves and their families. How any temple-recommend carrying Latter-day Saint cannot understand this is beyond me; particularly when we see how much more perfect our Church's welfare system is than the federal government's.

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Sept. 6, 2012 9:26 a.m.


    I agree with your points. I think the USA is a good country and still a good government, although it needs to be taken back by the people from the Lobbyists and Corporations. I don't think we can compare North Korea to the USA. Paying taxes is not against the Lord's wishes--Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's

    Our form of government, a democratically chosen representative form of government still serves its people provided the voters ensure this happens.

    Not every government program is helpful to the citizens--like subsidizing already very prosperous oil corporations with tax dollars. Welfare was reformed by Clinton. We can work to make programs better, but this Rand philosophy of everyone for themselves is not very Christ-like.

    Some on this board say the Government shouldn't force taxes that go to charity. I don't call Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security or Food Stamps charity--I call it good governance. We should as a society care about all of our citizens, not just ourselves. What about "There but the grace of God go I". These programs fall under the promote the General Welfare of the preamble of the Constitution.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 6, 2012 6:13 a.m.

    It is really sad to see members speak so poorly of their fellow members based on party affiliation.... all the while claiming to be following the prophet. I would love to see an example of a modern day leader speaking in these kinds of tones. It isn't hard to find examples where the leadership has admonished members to not speak in these ways...

    Divisiveness, pride and hatred within the church.... you would think there would have been warnings against this.... oh wait, there are!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:32 p.m.

    This feels eery, like the GOPride stories from Tampa.

  • Diane Earlywine Pinetop/Lakeside, AZ
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:40 p.m.

    I really did not want my full name posted on this, but could not change it. So here goes anyway. I have been working very hard in continually praying, reading my scriptures and working in the temple. I want to follow the teachings of my Savior, Jesus Christ. I want to vote for those who are also do the same thing. My prophet and apostles are firm in not supporting abortion or gay marriages. I do not want to put anyone down for their political choices...we all have our free agency...but as for me, I listen to what our prophet teaches and then study it out for myself. I am on the Lord's side and will vote for the person I can see is believing the same way as I do.

  • NCDawg ,
    Sept. 5, 2012 7:29 p.m.

    The quote from Craig Janis saying that "Republicans don't think helping their neighbor is something to strive for" is just offensive. Many Republicans do lots of charitable work. You should have been with me this week helping a refugee family instead of increasing the national debt that our grandchildren will be paying off to China.

    I honestly believe that you can be a Republican or a Democrat and still be a faithful LDS. I don't believe we should be spouting nonsense like Mr. Janis does.

    And FYI, I have criticized both parties for increasing the national debt. Only the party out of power ever wants to do anything about it.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 7:01 p.m.

    "one Church had a lovely garden venue"
    Actually, a beach boardwalk pavilion.
    – A state administrative law judge ruled in Jan 2012 that the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association violated the state’s Law Against Discrimination when it denied Ocean Grove residents Harriet Bernstein and Luisa Paster the use of its boardwalk pavilion for their 2007 civil union ceremony. The association had allowed members of the public to rent the pavilion and had never before declined a permit other than for scheduling conflicts until it received Paster and Bernstein’s reservation request. The association rejected the couple’s application to use the space, stating that civil unions violated its Methodist doctrine.

    The Camp Meeting Association could have used the pavilion exclusively for its own purposes. The judge found, however, that the association opened the pavilion up to the public and thus was obligated to follow anti-discrimination laws.

  • 1Truthseeker Los Angeles, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 6:12 p.m.

    Not sure why DN limited my posts to 3.

    re:Counter Intelligence

    Hey, I'm comfortable with my beliefs. But I go to church to worship God and share in the good spirit there. As most people know the most divisive issues are religion and politics. At church we share common religious beliefs. But nothing changes the spirit more than when politics are interjected into meetings/discussions either by leaders or members.

    I don't judge your continued involvement in the Church nor those like yourself who choose to leave. Life is a journey and there is only One who will judge that journey.

  • Granny Annie Buffalo, IA
    Sept. 5, 2012 5:11 p.m.

    I can't believe the LDS are listening to him at all. He almost hid who he was until now, with Romney on the opposing ticket. I don't see how any Believing LDS can be a democrat. Especially endorsing Barak Hussain Obama. That man is dangerous. He wants the entire country depending on the government. I believe, and most I know also, we should work for what we get, even if help is needed, we should be able to hold our heads high that we earned that help, instead of being handed to us like lazy slugs.

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:58 p.m.

    Well in one of the states back east where gay marriage is allowed, one Church had a lovely garden venue that they rented out for wedding receptions, it was church property. A gay couple, filed against them when they were denied the use of it because the church was not in agreement with their behavior. The counts ruled against the church, and in turn the church closed down this lovely reception area rather than bow to the demands of gay and government. Don't think that that won't happen. It already has with Obama's mandate against the Catholic Church and birth control, and the next step will be abortions in their hospitals.

  • timpClimber Provo, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:40 p.m.

    A platform that eliminates God, free to kill babies, the government gives us our rights, not a single word about getting out of debt and planned parenthood passing out condoms with anti Romney-Ryan slogans on them. They must have super rationalization genes or have invested so much emotional energy in their Party that facts no longer matter to them. Do I smell folks mesmerized by a modern Korihor?

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:34 p.m.

    Cap'n Green - serious questions:
    Do you believe church means it when it states: principles compatible with the gospel can be found in the platforms of all major political parties?
    If not, why? Can you give examples of any other official statement you believe the church has made only for appearances?

    Does it offend you that there are laws that reflect commandments against murder and stealing?
    How do they differ from laws that reflect commandments to help the needy?
    Why does is bother you that the government "asks" you to do what the Lord has already "asked" you to do. You already intend to do it. Keep in mind you don’t get to judge the recipient or outcomes – you are judged only on input.
    All are commandments that you are free to disobey. Which is worse: jail (for breaking the law) or hell (for breaking the commandments)?

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    You said: “The 12th article of faith is a good scripture in supporting government and in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law.”
    Yes, but that doesn’t mean that all government is good. Would you feel obligated by God to support the dear leader if you lived in N. Korea? In this country, supporting government means trying to change bad law.

    You said: “King Benjamin served his people. His government served its people.”
    Yes, but King Benjamin was a prophet, and the government was a theocracy.

    You said: “Many government welfare programs are created to help serve its citizens.” Yes, that was the intention, but it is not always the reality.

    You said: “I don't think God will care in the end how you helped people by charity or paying taxes, just so that you did it.” Rather, God requires us to be charitable. Charity goes far beyond monetary donations, however.

  • hermounts Pleasanton, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:23 p.m.

    Yeah, it's "Have I Done Any Good?' not Has the Government Done Any Good?" Any Latter-day Saint who thinks they belong in to modern-day Democrat Party is forgetting a fundamental distinction, between society and the state.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:20 p.m.

    "Just when I think we MIGHT be ready for prime time as a church, I read these posts and see all you people trying to pretend like God is on your side and everyone else is going to Hell. I'm a lifelong Republican, but some of you are so contentious and self-righteous it is sickening"

    English translation: "I judge you to be judgmental"

    BTW: LDS Liberal; you offer the most ironic posts on these threads to be offering any advice regarding ideological rigidity.

  • Captain Green Heber City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:16 p.m.

    What these misinformed LDS Democrats fail to realize is that we are obligated as individuals to help the needy through voluntary donation of our time and resources... BUT it should never be done through the forced process of involuntary confiscatory taxation! There is a HUGE difference and that is the crux of the matter. This is apparently not understood by these well-meaning members. One way is very good... the other way is evil through and through. If they stopped to think about it, they would realize it was Satan's plan to force us all to be good (Democrat strategy), but Christ taught us to do good of our own free choice (Republican plan).

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:13 p.m.


    "It is becoming harder and harder to maintain activity."

    Please cut the victimhood, every day everyone has to make a choice about what they believe. If you cant rectify your beliefs - then choose what you believe - don't blame others.

    As a homosexual that refuses to play into the hard left victim melodrama of the stereotypical gay activist; I am not particularly sympathetic to those who whine that it is soooooooooo hard to be a politically correct leftist

  • Built2Last Provo, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 3:46 p.m.


    You are out in left field. I've never heard one Republican advocate that those who truly need the help shouldn't have a safety net in the government to provide for that. We can all agree that is needed. What is ridiculously out of control is this "cradle to grave" mentality, fostered by the Democrats, to provide for themselves a built-in voter base. The more people dependent on welfare, the more votes for them. So they waste billions of dollars supporting people who have nothing else wrong with them except laziness. They pay for their cell phones, they pay for their satellite TV, they pay for their video games. I've seen lots of these types of people living off the dole. My sister married a guy from a long line of welfare grubbers. Honestly, it's the saddest thing I've ever seen. There are few things that demand our pity more than a person who can do for themselves but won't. And the Dems are the ones providing them their fix. Well, the reality is that the gravy train is coming to an end, either out of political will or bankruptcy.

    Sept. 5, 2012 3:32 p.m.

    Why do some of you have kind words for Harry Reid? Lets be truthful, he's nothing more than a crooked politician who is helping Obama destroy this great nation. Sadly he's a member of the LDS church. If he was a man of true integrity, he would openly denounce the platform his party has chosen to support. A platform the scriptures and our church leaders have always told us to avoid. Those of you that support his behavior also lack integrity.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 5, 2012 3:22 p.m.

    ""Members may choose to use resources in the community, including government resources, to meet their basic needs. The bishop should become familiar with these resources."

    "Even when Church members receive assistance from non-Church sources, the bishop should help them avoid becoming dependent on these sources."

    And for the non-members, with whom as all brothers and sister, where do they turn. Does those we care about end at the churches walls... That surely wasn't Christ's example. Are you saying the church should pick up the difference... really?

    KVC - you asked "How is it possible, if your stats are correct, that these restrictions can't get any Democratic support in Congress?" Are you saying the polls are lying? Is not even conceivable that a vocal minority is controlling the governments agenda - on both sides, like the Tea Party has done to the Republicans. Just as the Tea Party doesn't speak for all Republicans, those that lean most left don't speak for Democrats as a whole. There are plenty of fiscally conservative democrats, and moderate or progressive Republicans.

    It is not a black or white world. As a Republican, does Limbaugh speak for you?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 3:17 p.m.

    The Church has made the following public statement on multiple occasions prior to major elections: “Principles compatible with the gospel are found in the platforms of ALL major political parties. While the Church does not endorse political candidates, platforms, or parties, members are urged to be full participants in political, governmental, and community affairs.”

    The Church does not:
    • Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
    • Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
    • Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.


    You either sustain the Brethren in this, or you don’t.
    If you reject what they’ve said – and insist that Republicans are all right and Democrats are all wrong, and should be “ex’d” as Miss Piggie and many others have said or implied in this thread,
    YOU are in fact the very ones guilty of Rejecting the Prophets and Apostles.
    [per Mormon’s warnings].

  • JBs Logan, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 3:08 p.m.

    The comments I read here against LDS Democrats are the very reason it is difficult to be one. I have been very thoughtful about why I feel the way I do, and I assume that Republicans who have posted here have done the same. Please let us respect each other and support one another. I anticipate that soon the comments will be, "Well, if you don't like the Republican party as a Mormon, just go ahead and leave the church." I know that is not what the Brethren would say; they are inclusive, not exclusive, as is the church. If you hate me that much and would want to wound your brother or sister in such a way, perhaps you might want to re-examine your hearts and perhaps ask me why I feel the way I do. I will do the same for you.

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:57 p.m.

    CB, I looked at the Democratic Platform, and it part of the Marriage Equality plank--which doesn't state anything about law change, simply support of equality in marriage, states that religious sacraments for marriage will be determined by those denominations in accordance with their beliefs. I had also heard this said a couple of times before this, and by President Obama when he first spoke on his feelings about it and answered questions. He made it very clear that it was his intent only to say how he felt, not to make law about it.

    I hope this clarifies this point for anyone who wondered. I also would like to say that I, too, find myself thinking, having watched the other convention, now seeing this one, and watching all the rest of this stuff, that it does make me feel, as a Dem, and LDS woman, it's all about free agency a la War in Heaven.

  • BSU BRONCO!! Rigby, ID
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:55 p.m.

    I know the leaders of the church have said that it is ok to be one or the other. Both sets of my Grandparents were diehard Railroad Democrats. And President Faust was a leader in the Democratic party. However I think a new statement needs to come out from the leaders of the church. The Party is not what it use to be. They have gone so far to the left in recent years with the party platform. Wanting to completley take God out of everything. Christaians are looked down at to members of the party. I know you dont have to agree with all polices in order to be part of it. But come on as far left as they have gone in the past 5 years I dont see how anyone with a clean consious can support a group with those beliefs. But that is why we were all given our free agency and have the ability to choose either its right or wrong. I do believe that Joseph Smiths prophecy of the Constitution hanging by a thread is taking shape right before our eyes. If its upheld its goint to be Romney that does it.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:44 p.m.

    Harry is a Mormon.
    Obama is American.

    I'm superman!

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:35 p.m.

    It is becoming harder and harder to maintain activity. Here, people dont think twice about bringing politics into our church meetings.
    I think the church-owned Deseret News contributes to the belief, held by many Mormons in the U.S., that one cant be a good church member and a Democrat. I can't figure out why the Church claims political neutrality but then does the opposite with its newspaper. Is it just lip service?

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:31 p.m.

    @BSU Bronco

    The 12th article of faith is a good scripture in supporting government and in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law.

    King Benjamin served his people. His government served its people. Many government welfare programs are created to help serve its citizens. I want to pay unemployment insurance in case I ever lose my job and to help others who have, I want to help support the overall health of the citizens (there but the Grace of God go I). I don't think God will care in the end how you helped people by charity or paying taxes, just so that you did it. I think "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's encouraged supporting government.

    Why support a party that doesn't want government to serve its people but is more than willing to give Big Oil our tax dollars, have corporations control politics instead of people, etc.?

    Where much is given, much is expected...except in the Tea Party, where much is given, less is expected, and the much is sent overseas to protect it...with building interest and to avoid taxes. Doesn't sound like the New Testament to me!

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:21 p.m.

    From these remarks, I'm glad some of the writers haven't gotten their way. In spite of all I could do, I'm one of those who just didn't get the American Dream--I got the not such a great dream version, the one with nothing to write home with, much less about, so to speak. And a lot of these writers want to take what medical care I do get and my SSI and let me get whatever I can from some fairy godmother. Thanks. I wasn't complaining about my dreams not happening, but it would have been nice not to have folks try to make me feel worse for taking all their money. Do you have any idea what it is like? Having a health issue that just won't disappear and sometimes scares people--even its owner--is not a dream come true. But it can be lived with. Even laughed about. Some of the convo here, though, gets pretty insensitive. There is no way to help people who don't have other ways to deal with the situation that is chronic except by government assistance. You would let them fend for themselves.

  • Fern RL LAYTON, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:21 p.m.

    I dislike all this bickering between the major political parties. I keep hoping, in this information age, we could just vote for who we want without depending on a political party to set forth our candidates for us.

    In spite of all the mudslinging on both sides, I believe Pres. Obama and Mitt Romney both have our country's best interests at heart. The main difference is the methods they would employ to "do something good" and "help others."

    Biased, ever since President Clinton was in the Oval Office, I became convinced that "the best man for the job is a woman," but no woman closely related to Pres. Clinton in any way was good enough for me either.

    The current state of economic failure plaguing our nation has caused me to soften my attitude and support the candidate who I believe is most uniquely qualified to get us out of this mess.

    I happen to think that the ACA at over 1,024 pages is way too large, for example, whereas the 2006 MA ACT healthcare bill at less than 100 pages, including what Romney vetoed, was large enough.

    Romney's vision more closely matches my own.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:17 p.m.

    @Miss Piggie
    ["Should LDS members who vote for democratic candidates be allowed temple recommends?"

    No. And they should be ex'ed.]

    How about you write that question in a letter to a General Authority and see what kind of response you get? (I already know what the response would be but you're not going to believe me saying it after all).

    Sept. 5, 2012 2:06 p.m.

    Wasn't the War in Heaven fought over the principle of Agency?

    The Democratic Party promotes Agency - the right for people to make their own choices and does not force anyone to have an abortion, marry a person of the same gender, etc.

    Why doesn't the modern Republican Party trust people to make their own choice?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:04 p.m.

    Craig Clark
    Boulder, CO

    How will you feel if it turns out that Reid's allegations against Romney are true? The only thing Reid did that I have a problem with is that he wouldn't identify the source of the charges. Both Romney and the public have a right to know that. If the charges are true, then Reid performed an invaluable public service.

    12:34 p.m. Sept. 5, 2012



    Well said.

    Even long time Romney supporter Jon Huntsman SR. said Romney should release his taxes.

    BTW - Rumor has it, that might just be Deep-Throat.

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    Harry Reid has risen to party leadership when everyone in the Party knows that his stance on abortion is in line with the LDS stance: exceptions in cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother.

    Unlike the Tea Party, the Democrats don't have a purity test to ensure all think the same and do the same--sounds an awful lot like Lucifer's plan in the preexistence, but I guess it's a good model to follow for running a political party?

    When Obama came out on his support for Gay Marriage, Reid issued a statement, "My personal belief is that marriage is between a man and a woman. But in a civil society, I believe that people should be able to marry whomever they want, and it's no business of mine if two men or two women want to get married," Reid said.

    He stood up for marriage but acknowledged individual freedom--I don't see any wrong in that. With separation of Church and State--government will not be able to tell church's to perform a gay marriage.

    Harry Reid is a great example of the LDS Faith--strong and compassionate!

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:59 p.m.

    I can't help but think about how the Republican party has been treating its own members to not be so surprised at how it wants to treat "the least of these" in this country. When some states wanted to have their primary conventions earlier, their party found ways to punish them, either by not allowing full measure of delegate counts or turning them into "beauty contests". They had two instances where the counts could be done correctly and there were concerns as to why. Candidates who were not far enough to the right were ousted one way or the other, and called "RINO"--Republican In Name Only--and being called a moderate became an epithet that lost primaries and elections. And this is how their own were treated, those already with money and power. I believe this is what is really standing in the way of a real discussion among voters and candidates about platforms and having an honest election this time. True, most elections are hotheaded to some degree, people get excited. But this one is almost coming to virtual civil unrest. It's childish and rediculous. Adults are using schoolyard names--can we grow up?

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:59 p.m.

    I am glad that some positive attention has been paid to LDS Democrats. It is the misunderstanding of many that the LDS church is a Republican church. No. This Church professes to follow Jesus Christ and it's leaders urge us to vote for those individuals who we feel confident will support our ideas and values (nothing in the wording about any particular political party being the answer to that criteria).

    I know Republicans and Democrats who are good, honest people. I also know both Republicans and Democrats who are less than upright in their language and deeds. Rather than identifying ourselves as LDS Republican or LDS Democrat, we should maybe identify ourselves as people who are trying to follow Christ and who vote accordingly --- for which ever party they feel will represent their ideals and values.

    Let's not fight each other on these issues. Instead, let's fight corruption, violence, poverty and mistreatment. And let us find, or become candidates who will do just that.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:58 p.m.

    "LDS values do not include lies."

    Well then you sure as heck can't support Mitt Romney when there's literally 19 minute compilations of him flip-flopping.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:52 p.m.

    Didn't do your homework?

    The Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act was passed by Congress in Nov. 2003 and then signed into law by Pres. Bush.
    Harry Reid was one of 17 Democratic Senators that voted in favor of the ban.

    "Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. Vote to pass a bill banning a medical procedure, which is commonly known as "partial-birth" abortion. Those who performed this procedure would then face fines and up to two years in prison, the women to whom this procedure is performed on are not held criminally liable. This bill would make the exception for cases in which a women's life is in danger, not for cases where a women's health is in danger."

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:50 p.m.

    It is quite obvious why only 8% of LDS members consider themselves liberal and liberal members have a 50% activity rate... it's because you conservatives self-righteously judge them all the time. Church is supposed to be something uplifting, not a source of frustration. Church leaders emphasize that being of any political party is okay but no, apparently words of your leaders isn't good enough for you.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:48 p.m.

    Just when I think we MIGHT be ready for prime time as a church, I read these posts and see all you people trying to pretend like God is on your side and everyone else is going to Hell. I'm a lifelong Republican, but some of you are so contentious and self-righteous it is sickening. It's like leaving your kids alone in a room after a peaceful moment and you come back in to find them at one another's throats.

    Where is the Christ-like tolerance and respect for each others' viewpoint? Do any of you honestly think you can browbeat and threaten others here into thinking like you?? Just what are you hoping to accomplish with this arguing?

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:47 p.m.

    Wow, there is a lot of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth by the usual conservative suspects on this board who take it on themselves to "steady the arc" from the Lord's anointed prophet and apostles.

    I believe there is good in both parties, and as a whole, since more members are outside the U.S., the LDS religion is not represented on a majority by either party.

    From comments on this board, I can now understand why the LDS church made it a point to try and get members involved in both party caucuses--to avoid this belligerent diatribe being unchecked and made to look as it is how most LDS members feel.

    Let me assure you--THEY DO NOT! The Tea Party, in my humble opinion, is about as far from the teachings of Jesus Christ as you can get.

    Let me flip the coin on some of you. How can any self-respecting LDS be Tea Party and expect the poor and working poor to suffer most of the burden so the ultra-rich (like Pharisees) can have even more? Check out the scripture below for His thoughts.

    Mark 12:41-44

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:36 p.m.

    There are probably many Mormon Republicans who share Miss Piggie's views. In our area people don't think twice about voicing their political views in various church meetings--nothing changes the spirit faster than politics. Yes, it is getting harder and harder to maintain activity. Deseret News just feeds/perpetuates the belief of many LDS members that the Democratic Party is aligned with Satan. If church leaders were really concerned about political neutrality the LDS church-owned paper would be less partisan. The fact that it isn't leads me to believe political neutrality isn't really the goal. Perhaps political neutrality is just a statement meant to safeguard one's tax exempt status.

    UT Brit is correct. Anybody who believes the church could take care of the needs of its members without a govt.-church partnership isn't dealing with reality. Of course, leaders will urge people to be thrifty and self-sufficient but that doesn't mean they are advocating for the demise of govt. programs. (except maybe Ezra Taft Benson whose brother was the president of the John Birch Society in UT).

  • BSU BRONCO!! Rigby, ID
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:13 p.m.

    I have always struggled with this. How can you be a member of the church, hold the standards and values that you do but still consider yourself a Democrat. Everything the Deomocratic party stands for. Abortion, gay rights, same sex marriage, contridicts the standard and beliefs of our faith. The church has the best example of redistribution of wealth. Give to others because you want to. Help others in need becuase thats what the Savior taught. Not becuase our goverment tells us too. Would a Democrat please explain to me how you balance both.

  • KVC Sahuarita, az
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:10 p.m.

    If your assertions are correct, how is every attempt to place those restrictions you mention get shot down by Democrats if most or almost most support them, and the vast majority of Republicans support them. It is evident your stats are incorrect. If they were accurate, we would have more restrictions on abortion than are currently in place. Even Harry Reid won't allow a ban on Partial Birth abortion to pass, and I know of only a very small minority of Dems in congress that would support the restrictions that you say are supported by the majority of dems. How is it possible, if your stats are correct, that these restrictions can't get any Democratic support in Congress? And why does even Jimmy Carter criticize the Democratic position on abortion?

    If most Mormons are liberal or moderate, why do they vote so conservatively? Just look at Utah politics for evidence. Mormons vote overwhelmingly conservative. Most of the "democrat Mormon Leaders" were Democrats when Democrats were much conservative.

    I can find a plethora of ideas in the Democratic platform that are contrary to LDS teachings. What can you find in the Republican platform that is contrary?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:09 p.m.

    Uncle Charles and UT Brit,

    Some relevant quotes from Providing in the Lord's Way:

    "Church members are responsible for their own spiritual and temporal well-being. Blessed with the gift of agency, they have the privilege of setting their own course, solving their own problems, and striving to become self-reliant."

    "When Church members are doing all they can to provide for themselves but still cannot meet their basic needs, they should first turn to their families for help. When this is not sufficient, the Church stands ready to assist."

    "Members may choose to use resources in the community, including government resources, to meet their basic needs. The bishop should become familiar with these resources."

    "Even when Church members receive assistance from non-Church sources, the bishop should help them avoid becoming dependent on these sources."

    I hope this provides some clarity.

    Sept. 5, 2012 12:43 p.m.

    "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

    -Margaret Thatcher

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:34 p.m.


    How will you feel if it turns out that Reid's allegations against Romney are true? The only thing Reid did that I have a problem with is that he wouldn't identify the source of the charges. Both Romney and the public have a right to know that. If the charges are true, then Reid performed an invaluable public service.

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:29 p.m.

    UT Brit,

    "area authorities told us to make sure that people were signed up to government programs. The church would not be able to handle the welfare needs of its members otherwise."

    I don't doubt that's the case. I think any suggestion you're not following Church directives is outrageous and unfortunate. In countries where the government is bigger and there is less disposable income as a result I'm sure fast offerings are meager. In the US, where a lot of tax dollars go to education, you're crazy (or wealthy) not to send your child to a public school. The Church has to adapt to any country's system obviously. But I think that speaks in favor of less government, where more contributions can be made of one's own free will.

    Jeff 10:14 p.m. Sept. 4, I wish we had more individuals like you in the GOP. I see the Democratic party as becoming increasingly hostile to Judeo-Christian values and we need more temperate voices in the GOP.

  • UT Brit London, England
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:24 p.m.

    @Uncle Charles

    Okay, lets make sure no members around the world are on government assistance. Can the church foot the bill for medical, mortgage, utility bills, carers for the disabled, childcare, transportation, food, clothing, care homes, you get the idea. How long would the church be able to sustain this? Again this is not in Utah, I am talking about the world. How much time have you spent living in other countries?

    You sound like you know more than my area presidency, could you call up the Apostles and let them know please?

    "I don't know why the gospel isn't followed in your ward/stake"

    You have no idea how wrong you are about this, in fact I know the first presidency would strongly disagree with you. Do you know more than them?

    If people who come to get church welfare they will have been to their families first, whats wrong with that statement?

    If this were a perfect world, there would be no poor and everyone would be taken care of. This is not a perfect world.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:16 p.m.

    Miss Piggies comments makes me feel ill. Unless a member votes Republican, in her words, they "should be ex'ed". According to Pew Research, 56% of Mormons lean liberal or Moderate. The 44% think you all should be kicked out of the church, evidently. According to miss piggy, a local stake President should be ex'ed.

    Must be nice to have the insight to make such broad sweeping statements.

    Then to the comments that Democrats all support abortion on Demand (the justification for the comments above)

    "A recent Gallup Poll found that 84 percent of Democrats agree with Rep. Crawford and support informed consent. According to the same poll, 60 percent of Democrats support a 24-hour waiting period, and almost half of Democrats, 49 percent, support an ultrasound requirement."

    Hardly what miss piggie says all Democrats want. A CBS poll found;

    "27 percent say abortion should be allowed only in the cases of rape, incest or to save the woman's life. Another 10 percent think an exception should be made only to save the woman's life. One in 10 thinks abortion should never be permitted."

    Doesn't fit Miss Piggies narrative, does it. Facts, not Rhetoric.

  • KVC Sahuarita, az
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:13 p.m.

    Furry1993: I don't support murder, theft, or polygamy personally.. That said, my question is: whether I feel those decisions are right or wrong, wouldnt the christian thing to do be supportimg their agency? By voting in a party that restricts ones ability to exercise their agency like in the case of murder or pedophilia, doesnt that defy the entire purpose of christ and the crucifiction?

    Does that really sound reasonable? Abortion is considered murder of a baby by a large portion of people, especially those with religious convictions. Most of the people who support gay marriage also oppose polygamous marriage. Where is polygamy in the Democratic platform with gay marriage if they are truly about equality, agency, and not pandering? If Dems are about agency, why are they so big into compulsion and regulations?

    Here is a simple synopsis of Democratic beliefs:
    Abortion of inncent babies okay, but execution of convicted murders is barbaric.
    Gay marriage okay, polygamy, even if for religious reasons, barbaric.
    Requirement of free birth control for all a basic right above that of freedom of religion. Making people pay for birth control the same way they have to pay for all other medications= evil.

  • aware Babb, MT
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:12 p.m.

    There is no way I can even look at the picture of Harry Reid after all he has done to denegrate the Church, our doctrine, our leaders and the horrible exhibit of speaking from the well of the Senate to direct lies about a fellow High Priest. Party membership is one thing, but what Hsrry Reid is involved in is evil. He is the role model of the Gadianton Robbers and Corrupt judges we are now studying. I come from a family of both parties - NEVER have I heard in my life comments such as his and I am 72 years old. I have written Meridian and the Church News on not "highlighting" Hsrry Reid, it is misrepresenting all that the gospel holds dear. Sorry this is so blasting - but I cannot watch him get a pass - from anyone.

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:07 p.m.

    If Obama wins will we see demands that Gay Marriage should be performed in ours temples? That the government will disallow tax deductions for offerings and donations to the church? That our
    year supply should be placed on our front porches to be distributed as they deem necessary?
    Obama has already overstepped his authority on the welfare law passed by Congress and which should only be changed by Congress. He has begun rule more like a King than the President of the United States.
    Mormon in his book gave us a perfect example in the 'Freemen and the Kingmen' problem that the people dealt with. If that doesn't sound like what we are experiencing, it getting mighty close to it. If Obama wins we can expect ever greater intrusion into our lives and property.

  • windsor City, Ut
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:04 p.m.

    There's a huge silent majority of LDS out there in the middle--who are embarrassed and appalled at much of the actions, aims, views and rhetoric of both parties.

  • williary Kearns, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:00 p.m.

    How refreshing that the issue of Mitt being LDS has not been an issue at all this election cycle. The Obama campaign hasn't touched it, neither have other parties. Good to see one party has the right idea that it makes no difference what religion a candidate is.

    Clearly nothing like the McCain campaign, and the Republican henchmen, who STILL refer to Obama as a Muslim!

    Class from one side, continuing disrepect from the other.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    UT Brit asks, "Do you not think that people go to their family first?" Every meeting I've ever been in with bishops, stake presidents, Area 70's and Q12 that is the direction given and they have stated that is the first question that should be asked.

    I don't know why the gospel isn't followed in your ward/stake but it is in the many wards/stakes I've lived in here in the states.

    I'm not sure you are giving a solid or accurate assessment. In fact, it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Oh well

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:52 a.m.

    Dear UT Brit:

    You are comparing apples to oranges. Your form of government philosophy does not match with that of the US. There is nothing in any manual that says to counsel members to go to the government.

    I've had callings (would never consider them "high") in the ward and stake where I saw all the funds coming in and going out and had to sign off on checks. There are some wards that are in more need than others but in the end it all balances out. If a ward runs out then the state funds step in. If a stake was out of fast offering funds then it would draw from the church.

    All excess funds are sent to the church for that very purpose. If members actually followed the counsel of the church then we would have our years supply, 3-6 months of cash etc.

    5 of the 10 virgins were prepared and 5 weren't and they were all members of the church.

    The church is completely consistent in the teaching of provident living. Maybe you guys on that side of the pond should start following it?

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:48 a.m.

    It is interesting how both Mrs. Obama and Mayor Castro both preached to the young people and students about their influence with the two issues that Senator Reid has supported and will support in the future, even as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He must have a hard time speaking at BYU and answering questions that skirt his beliefs.

    He has 5 1/2 more years for the people of Nevada and the United States of America but hopefully not as the Senate Majority leader after the November 2012 election of the U.S. Senators in the other states. Thanks to the Senators that change parties due to not wanting to leave such a plush job that is paid for by the people of the United States of America. Their influence with the lobbyists make them more money, when they leave their positions and can take the influence money with them.

    Obamacare took a toll on Senator Reid but not on his election last fall by the people of Nevada. They voted for him but also want to take the Snake Valley water for their enticing city of water falls, shows and gambling.

  • Miss Piggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:42 a.m.

    @the hawk:

    "By voting in a party that restricts ones ability to exercise their agency like in the case of abortion, doesn't that defy the entire purpose of Christ and the crucifixion?"

    Abortion is the taking of a human life which is unlawful... Thus, those who engage in abortion should actually be incarcerated where they then would able to exercise their free agency. Christ's crucifixion applies upon true repentance which includes restitution. How is a life taken to be restored?

    Another poster made this astute observation: 'Infanticide, gay marriage, atheism/secularism, perpetual government dependance, and mercy ahead of justice (illegal immigration) are directly opposite of core LDS values.'

  • UT Brit London, England
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:39 a.m.

    @Miss Piggie

    "No. And they should be ex'ed."

    Smart thinking, wipe out most of the membership of the church overnight.....

    "No. Rape and incest are crimes."

    Life begins at conception right? Why should the child be punished for the sins of the father?

    "Much of those on gov't welfare just sit home not making any effort to get work."

    This does not sound like anyone I know who are on church welfare.

    "To save Church resources."

    That does not make any sense, if people are saying the church takes a hardline that the government should not be involved with peoples welfare the church should be doing all it can to make sure they come off it. In my experience it is the complete opposite of this. Do you not think that people go to their family first?

  • DonO Draper, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:27 a.m.

    Heaven knows the Republican party and Mitt Romney have their warts, and I'm all for helping those who can't help themselves. But I just can't get my head around how a Mormon, or any other Christian for that matter, can embrace a Democrat party that espouses government paying for abortion on demand. That's the big stopper for me.

  • ibextex Provo, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    I am a Mormon independent who has voted Democratically. I am not a party member because I do not want to fully support the platforms of either parties. I do believe that Utah needs more bipartisanship and I tend to vote more democratically because I feel they share my views more often than Republican Nominees. It offers a alternative with more moderate views as an escape to the extreme right wing movements presently occuring in the Republican Party.

    Just as there are Republican representatives and voters who do not support anarchist grass-root politics there are Democrats who do not support complete pro-choice initiatives and other policies known to belong to the Left Wing. Voters and Politicians should not be condemned because of certain aspects of a party's platform and unfair stereotyped blanket statements of a party and its members.

  • dalefarr South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:17 a.m.

    If we truly took care of our fellow man, and had no poor among us, we would not need our government to do it for us. But we don't and never will so we do.

  • Miss Piggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:10 a.m.

    UT Brit:

    "Should LDS members who vote for democratic candidates be allowed temple recommends?"

    No. And they should be ex'ed.

    How could anyone be allowed in those hallowed structures who support abortion as a method of birth control?

    "Should the LDS church change its stance on abortions as it does allow them in some circumstances?"

    No. Rape and incest are crimes.

    "Is the church able to take care of the welfare needs of the members of the church if they went off government assistance? (in my stake this would be a huge no)?

    Much of those on gov't welfare just sit home not making any effort to get work. They refuse to work for minimum wages, take a job not in their occupational field, or live frugally. If they were to use Church welfare instead, their numbers would likely reduce substantially because Church authorities would require they work at something, be frugal, etc.

    "Why does the church advise those who need welfare to sign up to government programs?"

    To save Church resources. They are also told to first look to families as a first line of assistance. This last point, if adopted by the government, would save billions.

  • bullet56 Olympia, WA
    Sept. 5, 2012 11:06 a.m.

    Great reading. As a citizen of the country, I support giving tax aid to needy citizens when there are no other means. That said the first responders for individuals should be and has always been, family first, church next, government last.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:54 a.m.


    ".....Frankly, I don't know how anyone can be a Mormon and a Democrat."

    Being a Mormon was no obstacle to Brigham H. Roberts being a Democrat. This member of the First Council of Seventy was the first Mormon ever elected to Congress. The House refused to seat him because he was a polygamist.

    It was no obstacle for Heber J. Grant. I trust you've heard of him. Also Spencer W. Kimball. He was active in Democratic Party politics for years before switching to the GOP. Remember Hugh B. Brown, a counselor to David O. McKay in the First Presidency? He was a Democrat whom President McKay sent to represent the Church at the funeral of JFK in 1963. I should also mention Hugh Nibley, scholar and loyal Democrat who fiercely defended FDR’s New Deal and in the 1960s became an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War.

    The list is much longer if you care to do some research.

  • Andy Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    If Senator Reid is the face of Mormon Democrats then I cannot be a Democrat. He is dishonest and underhanded.

    I can respect a civil debate about policy differences, visions of the role of government etc. but his unfounded accusations regarding Romney's taxes were beyond the pale. The NYT later published a story that Rmoney did in fact pay taxes for the previous 10 years based on deductions evidenced in his current filings based on prior years' filings. I only hope that one day he publicly apologizes for those statements.

  • funny_guy Vacaville, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:42 a.m.

    Harry Reid has simply found a way to make a living -- principles are immaterial. He will say or do whatever is necessary to maintain his lifestyle. His recent comments about Romney not filing taxes for ten years show how low he will stoop to keep his job.

  • Kouger Lehi, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:38 a.m.

    The mention of, or references to God, is barely evident, if not totally purged from the Democratic National Convention - INTENTIONALLY and PURPOSELY! Let's have Reid and his gang of twenty four (?) reconcile that with LDS values! And don't try to tell me that it has to do with "church and state" issue! BALONEY! Democrats are becoming more and more GOD-LESS! For example, Michelle said that same sex marriage is an American dream, etc., etc., These LDS democrats value their politics more than their religion. Reid is the PERFECT example!

  • funny_guy Vacaville, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:35 a.m.

    Since when is it governments "job" to take care of our every need?

    Our Founding Fathers envisioned LIMITED GOVERNMENT, where people were free to live as they saw fit. Neighbor helping neighbor, without government involvement. Demoncrats want people dependent upon government for their every want & need. They abhor self-sufficiency & self-reliance. Government, i.e. Demoncrats, merely use the poor, the elderly, & the less educated, to promote their Socialist agenda.

    Before government entitlements were enacted, churches & other civic groups fulfilled the charitable needs within their community. They built hospitals & homeless shelters, fed the hungry, & took care of widows & elderly. Much like things the LDS Church & other churches still do. Over time, government assumed the role of caretaker of the less fortunate -- as a means to make them dependent on government & garner votes from bleeding heart liberals. Entitlements take away individual liberty, making people slaves of the government!

    Today, it is not uncommon to see several generations within the same family on assistance. This proves government's incompetence & inefficiency when it comes to helping people. It simply breed dependence & addiction. "Where's my welfare check? It's my money, you owe it to me, & you can't take it from me!"

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    I just wish Hilary Clinton had won the nomination. Although I disagree on policy with the Clintons, I KNOW they love America and want America to remain the strongest nation on Earth.

    Obama's role models are all anti-American. His founding fathers are NOT our Founding Fathers. His wife said she was never proud of her country until her husband was elected. Her very words.

    Our current President does not love our country. Period, end of story.

  • Ross Madison, AL
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:26 a.m.

    It seems unfair or inaccurate to use the church or its leaders for political purposes by stating that some general authorities are democrats. This statement is political and leads the unwary reader to think that they must be missing something in the current political debate. The LDS Church is completely non-partisan and must always be so. It is just as bad to say some general authorities are Republican or whatever party as to say some are democrat.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:21 a.m.

    To the hawk 9:52 a.m. Sept. 5, 2012

    Im an independent with an honest question. I dont support abortion or gays personally. That said, my question is: whether I feel those decisions are right or wrong, wouldnt the christian thing to do be supportimg their agency? By voting in a party that restricts ones ability to exercise their agency like in the case of abortion, doesnt that defy the entire purpose of christ and the crucifiction? I believe both parties are corrupt but would love some insight here.


    The adversary proposed a plan by which everyone would be compelled to be righteous. That plan can be seen in the plank of the Republican platform dealing with abortion and with the proposals of the Republican Party -- having the government force her decision. Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion. It's possible (and easy) to be both pro-choice and pro-life. Pro-cho8ice means keeping the government out of the decision, and letting the woman together with those with whom she chooses to consult to make the decision. That is what free agency means.

  • Built2Last Provo, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:21 a.m.

    It is a huge fallacy that Republicans want to do away with welfare support for those who truly need it. The reforms they propose are to get rid of the massive fraud and abuse of the system. But it is clear from their actions and policies that the Democrats want as many people as possible dependent on the government dole. They don't care about abuse of the system, even though it is costing us billions of dollars a year. The more people who are dependent, and the more the Dems can convince people that they will take care of them, they create for themselves a built-in voter base. The motive isn't to care for the widow and the poor and needy. The motive is a lust for power and control of billions of dollars.

    I personally believe that nothing at the federal level is very efficient or effective. Caring for the poor and the needy is much better administered locally and through churches who are in a much better position to determine who is truly in need and who is just lazy and looking for a free handout. Provide for needs, not handouts.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:15 a.m.

    To dung beetle 9:12 a.m. Sept. 5, 2012

    Would this be the same Harry Reid who a month or so ago told a very transparent lie about fellow Mormon Mitt Romney's taxes? Instead of "Have I done any good in the world today?" he should have sung "Have I told any more lies about Mitt today?".


    I've seen nothing to indicate that Senator Reid has told any lies about Mitt, and a lot to indicate that Mitt has some real problems with how he handled his taxes. It's becoming more and more clear why Mitt doesn't want to release his taxes.

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:15 a.m.

    to the Hawk and Spydyee: (I sent in a similar comment last night and it never showed up): You both say that to outlaw abortion is to limit others' agency. There are actually people who have advocated that it should be legal to kill a baby up to 1 month old (post birth). I'm not making this up. Should we pass laws against infanticide, or should we allow others their agency to kill babies? I can maybe see allowing people their agency to use drugs, but not to kill babies. Abortion is a bit less extreme than killing month old babies, but the argument still applies. In the Old Testament, God commanded that sabbath breakers bestoned. Was God wrong in commanding them to be stoned, since it would violate their agency?

  • oldcougar Orem, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 10:00 a.m.

    Thanks, ChemicAl for reintroducing civility into the discussion...not.

  • Gr8Dane Tremonton, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:57 a.m.

    I tried to read the DNA Platform, but had to quit. My blood pressure would not take it anymore. You see, I can't stand hypocrisy.

    When I got to the part about "OBama's All of the Above Energy Policy," I just had to quit. Gas prices have more than doubled under his short 4 years in office. And he wants it that way to force us all into midget cars. His Administration is forcing the Navy to experiment with biofuel at $32 a gallon, while military personnel are hurting in housing and cost of living raises. Solyndra goes bankrupt raiding taxpayers of over $500 million dollars.... Oh, and the management were Obama's contributors.

    What about Coal? His EPA is shutting down coal plants, when USA gets about 80% of its electricity from Coal. That will cause huge price spikes in years to come. But then, he's so smart and we're dumb. We need to be "forced" to be environmentally correct, don't we.

    So no, I couldn't even continue on to read the rest when I saw the document for what it is... a completely unreliable spin document meant to deceive.

  • the hawk Sandy, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:52 a.m.

    Im an independent with an honest question. I dont support abortion or gays personally. That said, my question is: whether I feel those decisions are right or wrong, wouldnt the christian thing to do be supportimg their agency? By voting in a party that restricts ones ability to exercise their agency like in the case of abortion, doesnt that defy the entire purpose of christ and the crucifiction? I believe both parties are corrupt but would love some insight here.

    Sept. 5, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    I find it very funny that the same people who last week were claiming that they did not completely agree with the official GOP platform are now unilaterally condemning Mormon Democrats for the official platform of their national party leaders. But then again, I always catch an odiferous whiff of hypocrisy when i check out DNews. The people in these posts make me sick as they sit there and pass judgement that is only the Lord's alone upon their fellow man.
    I am of neither party. I do, however, find myself leaning towards the liberal side of things. Harry Reid is no more or less of a political hack than Orrin Hatch or the golden child himself, Mitt Romney. To cast a blanket statement over all of us because of the few is unfair and wholly unchristian.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    It is BIC not BOC! Come on! Surely you know this!

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:39 a.m.

    Harry Reid is as much the face of a good LDS person as Abigail Hunstman... Please as an entity never make this mistake again!

  • Pooh Bear Saint Louis, MO
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:37 a.m.

    Some brief, random thoughts on the article and the comments come to mind:

    1 - The gospel net gathers of every kind, hence the wide variance of opinion, right or wrong.
    2 - There is that little thought of the wheat and the tares growing together.
    3 - There is that little thing called the "War in Heaven" that is most certainly continuing here on earth and is most pronounced in our day.
    4 - One can very readily see how things sorted out in the pre-earthly existence and how folks can have such wide opinions and sort out along a continuum of right to wrong.
    5 - Socialism is socialism - there was a time when President Benson, who must be turning over in his grave, said that one could not in all good conscience be a communist (i.e. socialist) and still be a member in good standing in the Church.
    6 - Socialism is meant very specifically to look like, sound like, feel like the law of consecration, hence its ability to deceive even the very elect.

    No doubt some will agree and some will disagree with some or all of these observations - what a surprise.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    Counter Intelligence you said:

    "the Democratic party has been hijacked by extremists", and the republican party hasn't? Both parties are full of extremists, that is the problem. One should maybe look within before one criticizes the other party. Apparently we have already forgot Mike Huckabee's repeated reference to the LDS religion as a cult. This is a view widely held by many evangelicals, yet you are willing to overlook that? Lets also be honest, many evangelicals are very likely to stay home in November rather than vote for a Mormon which ultimately may cost Mr. Romney the election.

    This is not a defense of the democratic party, because I personally find many of their positions indefensible. For me at least I find the condescending nature of the republicans to be much more offensive than some of the misguided policies of the democrats.

    Extremists and the lack of civility which the republicans are equally guilty of is destroying this country. How about we debate the issues instead of lobbing inflammatory statements back and forth.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    As one who voted for Gore, Kerry and Obama, I respectfully disagree with Mr. Janis---there is a difference between Mr. Romney and Mr. Harry Reid: the former is against same gender marriage and the latter is for it (or at least wants it legal.) I will be voting for Romney this year, thank-you very much. Mr. Reid is like William Clinton, Obama, Biden and Schumer of New York, all attorneys who put the Constitution above the Bible: these men put popularity over their faith, and it is sad. Secularists. If a party helps the poor, then I will respect them, I feel the Democratic party is shifting from helping the poor, to worshiping the law degree, university power, media power, etc. Enough is enough. People slowly and gradually show they don't believe in the Bible, nor in principle, nor in morality by the obsession to be equal in all things under the wonderful Constitution. There is a higher law. Romans 1:22 "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." I know the GOP isn't perfect either, I would like to see many in the Utah delegation work for a corporation at least once in their life.

  • dung beetle Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:12 a.m.

    Would this be the same Harry Reid who a month or so ago told a very transparent lie about fellow Mormon Mitt Romney's taxes? Instead of "Have I done any good in the world today?" he should have sung "Have I told any more lies about Mitt today?".

  • Gregorio Sojo SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:09 a.m.

    What Kool-Aid are people like Sen. Harry Reid drinking? Liberal Mormons who buy into the Obama-Reid-Pelosi argument remind me of the circus performers who ride a pair of Lippizzaner stallions with one foot on each in hopes they stay together, side-by-side. They delude themselves into thinking that they can keep a foot on each horse and stay safe. Either they don't read and understand the scriptures (See D&C 98) or they have failed to take a hard look at the actual policies of Obama's party and have fooled themselves into believing what comes out of his teleprompter. Sooner or later, these people will have to jump onto one horse or the other because they're not going in the same direction.

    This is not the Democrat party our grandparents voted for; this is not the Democrat party of John F. Kennedy. This party has been hijacked by 60s radicals like Frank Marshall Davis and by haters of America like George Soros. You can't ride both horses; just wait until Obama's friends release their anti-Mormon messages of hate. Choose wisely.

    Gregorio Sojo

  • UT Brit London, England
    Sept. 5, 2012 9:05 a.m.


    I have served in high callings at a ward and stake level, area authorities told us to make sure that people were signed up to government programs. The church would not be able to handle the welfare needs of its members otherwise. I have had the misfortune of doing the math for the stake and it does not make for pretty reading.
    One ward in a less affluent area not only wipes out the fast offerings from that ward for people on welfare but also wipes out the fast offerings from the rest of the stake, now what happens when another ward has families who are in trouble? By the way the families in those circumstances are already getting government assistance...... start to imagine where the church starts helping out on rent and mortgage payments, it gets a lot worse I promise you.

    All this pretty talk of self reliance and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps that the deseret news pumps out flies in the face of what the church actually does. How many Bishops have you heard of that have told members to come off government welfare so the church can help with everything?

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:59 a.m.

    Dear Payito: You are right. Utah is the most Republican state and it is also the most giving of any state for with time and charitable contributions. But...we do it voluntarily--not because we are forced!

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:52 a.m.

    I am not LDS

    Still don't know why anyone would vote for Obama or Harry Reid: the Democratic party has been hijacked by extremists who don't realize that they personify everything they despise (i.e Al Sharpton, Rahm Emanuel, Sandra Fluke, Dan Savage)

  • cherokee heart fresno, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:52 a.m.

    I was a democrat for years, but I heard the leaders with my spiritual ears and they want us to vote republican, our country is in trouble. so I am, if its not to late

  • Bart Tippetts Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    Are there LDS values that unites with the Democratic platform?. Some yes and some no. Yes on being good stewards of the earth and renounce war. No on abortion and gay marriage. Government should help those in need is not really a direct LDS value but a inference being we want a compassionate society and government has a role in this endeavor. It is really a matter of political philosophy not theology. I am a Democrat not because of my faith mainly but by my experiences and rational choices. Our mandate as LDS is to establish the just equitable cause of Zion where there is no poor among us which is mainly done through voluntarily consecration and cooperative economics. We should see each other not as Democrats nor Republicans but being united in this cause for all us are invited for this purpose in His kingdom. We can find common ground . Google in Mormon Zion Project for further reference.

  • Payito American Fork, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:47 a.m.

    How can Janis say that Republicans don't care for their neighbor? That is a lie and very insulting to all caring and giving people of this state. Words like that only cause division and should be avoided.
    Craig Janis is part of the problem of polarizing the people of this state and country.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:36 a.m.

    The posts in here reveal how diverse Mormons are in their views. Conservatism has been the political face of Mormonism for so long. Now Romney’s candidacy is prompting Mormons to speak out in a way that mirrors the national partisan divide in the country. Some General Authorities may be alarmed by that but I think it’s a healthy sign that Mormons are American to the core and are not the brainwashed dupes of a cult as some critics believe.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    Dear UT Brit:

    I have personally never heard of the Church advising members to sign up for government programs. All I have EVER heard the Church do is advise members to rely on themselves. If they need help they should go to family or the Church, but NOT sign up for government assistance. I know there are members who do utilize these programs, but I have NEVER heard of the Church advising them to do so.

    Read the Church's publication, "Daughters In My Kingdom." It was published at the direction of the First Presidency. It couldn't be more clear that the Church is counseling members to be self reliant and NOT to rely on government.

  • coleman51 Orem, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:30 a.m.

    To equate values with the Democrat Party is an oxymoron. In order to put LDS values into the Democrat platform they would have to destroy the platform and start again. Don't waste your time thinking a platform that is secular and amoral would ever admit any suggestion about LDS values when they they have just eliminated the name of "God" in any part of that platform. If they wish to incorporate LDS values in any political platform, they need to become Republicans.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:21 a.m.

    Harry Reid has bought into the Obama's principles that are not gospel principles. I agree that the Hymn he wanted them to sing was trying to massage his voting for the past six years. If you vote for 99 things good to make people believe you are looking out for them and then blast one bill that takes away all those 99 good ones hoping that no one will notice the fine print, that is not good. Government has the function to provide for the safety and welfare of the nation. The term welfare is not meant to be to handout everything to people and become like the nation in Hunger Games. That society would sacrifice children for the joy and pleasure of their society. It was disgusting to hear an ex-Governor of a state call and state that everything that another ex-Governor has done in his life was evil and that the other ex-Governor was lying about everything in his life. That ex-Governor who spoke must be a very bitter person but displayed what many in the Senate leader's party members also believe and practice. For a first day it was not uplifting.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:14 a.m.

    I just have to state that I used to see Harry Reid in Hall of Congress every day. We used to say "hi" to each other all the time. Even though I didn't agree with him, I still thought he was a good man.

    Harry Reid's behavior toward Mitt Romney has been completely shocking. How he could attack a fellow Church member, priesthood holder and good and righteous man who has devoted his life to the gospel and given millions of dollars to to Church and other charities, is shocking.

    I can no longer deny the truth about Harry Reid.

  • Ltrain St. George, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:10 a.m.


    No one in my church forces me to pay fast offerings. I wish I could stop paying so many taxes. Another huge difference is the church treats that money sacredly and they don't waste huge amounts. There are requirements to getting help from the church. They expect a person to do things for the help. It has never been used to help someone get elected Bishop or Stake President. To all you LDS democrats. How will you feel when the time comes, that Romney looks like he'll win, and Obama/Axelrod bring out the "Nuclear" option and go after your church?

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 8:10 a.m.

    I agree with President Hinckley's remark that we need good people in both parties. Unfortunately, the Dems have made it just about impossible for most Mormons to be in their party and they have no one to blame but themselves.

    As to Harry Reid and those at the Dem's convention....Denial is not a river in Egypt.

  • JP71 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 7:49 a.m.

    I consider myself an independent but a registered Republican. I have many views that are similar to the Democrat Party such as environment conservation and other things. But, with the new outlined Democratic Party statement of beliefs, I do not see how an LDS person can overlook so many issues that the Democratic Party supports that are clear violations of LDS doctrine. It seems that LDS Democrats are justifying their membership in a Party by saying that they don't believe in the of the same issues that the Democratic Party does. This is like saying the movie I watched was great except for those couple of bad parts. After a while we realize that we just should not have watched the movie in the first place.

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    Sept. 5, 2012 7:34 a.m.

    Whenever I see that this group start disagreeing with the Democrat Party on issues like abortions and marriage, I will take them more seriously. I wish we did not have a party system. The warnings of George Washington are so applicable today. But if we want parties, neither the Republicans or Democrats accommodate my beliefs.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 5, 2012 7:27 a.m.

    btw...there are many great LDS members and leaders in other countries who ARE Socialist, Liberal Democrats, left-of-center or whatever. A Stake President in Europe once asked me what Romney has against Europeans.

    Take care what you say, my fellow LDS. Our brothers and sisters are reading our comments out there and this contention makes no sense to them whatsoever!!

  • byu rugby Crystal Lake, IL
    Sept. 5, 2012 6:59 a.m.

    Infanticide, gay marriage, atheism/secularism, perpetual government dependance, and mercy ahead of justice (illegal immigration) are directly opposite of core LDS values.

    Sorry Dems, "What good have I done today" questions our individual responsibility to succor those in need not, abdocation of personal responsiblity in favor of habitual institutional dependance, redistribution of individual wealth and, social engineering. The adversary is sneaky.

    Remember "By the sweat of thy brow"? I don't recall seeing "by the sweat of someone else's brow"?

    Sept. 5, 2012 6:28 a.m.


    It does no good to force charity. The gospel of Jesus did not include compulsory giving. It is to be willing. I give a good sum of money, time, and support to those that are in need. I do not believe that the constitution gives the government the right to redistribute my money. My representatives are not looking out for my rights given under the constitution, they are instead are inventing new rights for the "I want" crowd.

  • sfcretdennis Nice, CA
    Sept. 5, 2012 6:20 a.m.

    Truthseeker SLO, CA Democrats don't seam to understand freedom either, the Democrats want to order us to do things, order us to pay for abortion in our tax $'s order us to buy heath insurances order us to give up our Gun's, order us to violate our religious freedoms, Catholics were order to provide contraceptives and abortion insurance to thous who work for them.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 5, 2012 6:11 a.m.

    Just so I am clear, it is not ok to take my money (taxes) and provide services and assistance to the poor, but it is ok to take my money (taxes) and provide money for oil companies who are making record profits every quarter. I certainly think that is a value that all Christians can get on board with.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Sept. 5, 2012 6:09 a.m.

    @ worf....."LDS values do not include lies."
    Are you serious?

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 5, 2012 5:46 a.m.

    Wow...I can't imagine Pres. Hinckley OR Pres. Monson endorsing any of your comments RE Jesus is a Republican OR a Democrat. Yet, so many of you try to do just that. Like many of you, I find the party that agrees with my values, and vote that way. We have a great country. There are honorable and dishonorable people running on both tickets. Let's be more gracious towards those that don't agree with us and not pretend you can't be a good member of the church if you are _________.

  • TA1 Alexandria, VA
    Sept. 5, 2012 5:30 a.m.

    Perhaps before we become judgemental about the Democratic we might ask ourselves what kind of example we have set as Latter-day Saints. I always enjoy my once a year visit from my Conservative Home Teachers, and they seem to have no problem with asking me to help on a service project each weekend or occaionally more often.

  • che1968 Exton, PA
    Sept. 5, 2012 4:28 a.m.

    I sing those words with great passion and conviction, then follow up by personal service, day in and day out, even as a retiree on a fixed income. But my humanitarian efforts are MINE, and not mandated by Executive Order, or mandated redistribution of wealth. The real principle is the freedom to use your hard earned resources where each person chooses to place them to help those in need. Most of the time what people need is not dollars thrown at them, but a helping hand, an encouraging word, an arm around shoulders, a soft shoulder and handerkerchief. I believe that our efforts are to be acted upon in silence and in anonimity, and the reward will be gven openly by the CREATOR, not by Presidential Medals, or Congressional Medals or political appointments .

  • UT Brit London, England
    Sept. 5, 2012 3:43 a.m.

    I have a few questions to some of the republicans who have commented:

    Should LDS members who vote for democratic candidates be allowed temple recommends?

    Should the LDS church change its stance on abortions as it does allow them in some circumstances?

    Is the church able to take care of the welfare needs of the members of the church if they went off government assistance? (in my stake this would be a huge no)

    Why does the church advise those who need welfare to sign up to government programs?

  • trueblue87 Provo, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 1:50 a.m.


    It is a common misconception that the United States is a democracy. The correct category for the form of government which we enjoy is a federal constitutional republic.

    " Though a constitutional republic is not a pure democracy it necessarily has some democratic elements, such as the ability of the people to elect a president (in the U.S. the majority of the population is checked here too, as the popular vote of the people does not necessarily decide the winner)."

    Also in response to helping the poor needing to be enforced. when you seek to enforce charity, it ceases to be so. When means of support is freely given there is no resentment. This is true charity.

  • wrz Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 5, 2012 12:27 a.m.


    "With regard to the Hymn and the government being the means to that end I ask all of you why it is OK to pay fast offerings and tithing to the church and have the church redistribute those finds to the needy but not OK to pay taxes and have our government (of the people by the people for the people) redistribute the funds.

    Very simple. So simple that a sixth grader should be able to get it.. Fast offerings and tithing are voluntary contributions. Government taxes, including income taxes and Social Security, are not voluntary. If you don't pay up you could go to jail.

    "That type of duplicity is illogical and breeds contempt and confusion and those things are not of the Lord."

    I don't think you're thinking clearly on this issue.

    Sept. 4, 2012 11:54 p.m.

    "The political attacks on Mormonism, he said, have come from the far right wing of the Republican Party, not from the left."

    Remember proposition 8?

  • Alfred Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 11:51 p.m.


    "I'm sure most of the people here complaining about the government 'forcing' people to give money have no problem with Republicans inserting themselves into a woman's private health matter..."

    Why you expect the American taxpayer to pay for your contraception is a total mystery. Take $9 per month, go to your local drug store and buy you own darn contraception.

    "...or denying two consenting adults the right to get married."

    Two consenting adults can marry... so long as they are of the opposite sex... so says the laws of the land... ans passed by a by-partisan congress and as signed into law by none other than Bill Clinton.

    If you can go for two consenting adults... would you go for three consenting adults marrying... or four?

    "And I'm sure those same people would understand if I were to declare that they couldn't have any of the money I pay into Social Security every month."

    Any such declaration is meaningless. Read the SS law.

    "And yes, I'm Mormon. Sixth generation and BOC..."

    I suggest you give it up.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 11:50 p.m.

    Today's Democratic Party = Huge Centralized Government. How is this possibly an American value? More people than ever before are on food stamps. Is this the 'hope' and 'change' that was promised? When, in the history of the world, have governments, particularly huge, centralized governments, NOT abused power? This isn't about LDS Dems vs LDS Republicans. This isn't about Left or Right. It's about UP and DOWN. Are we willing to give more power to a government that has put us $16 Trillion in debt? When does this economic plan start working? At $20 Trillion? $40 Trillion? How much power is too much power?

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 11:13 p.m.


    " 1967, as California Governor Reagan indeed signed an abortion bill but...".

    1. reagan signed an abortion bill.
    2. over 2,000,000 babies were murdered as a result of the abortion bill.


    You excuse reagans behavior because abortion was not on the political radar?
    You write that after much consultation and study reagan signed the bill anyway?

    With all due respect, your rationalization for reagans behavior is astounding (cleaned up considerably for DN readers).

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Sept. 4, 2012 11:03 p.m.

    We would have to change the words to make it accurate for LDS Democrats:

    "Have I forced anyone to do good in the world today?. "Have force the rich to help anyone in need?"

    Helping people is a pleasure. Being forced takes all the pleasure out of it.

  • Bastiatarian TUCSON, AZ
    Sept. 4, 2012 10:37 p.m.

    >James Faust was strongly Democratic

    That old standard has been refuted an uncountable number of times. The Democratic Party he belonged to when he was politically active was nothing like the decadent, anti-liberty Democratic Party of today.

    >tenets of Republicanism that are against the Gospel

    You mean things like voluntarily helping the poor and needy? Like being accountable for your actions? Like respecting the rights of others to their lives, liberty, and property? Like keeping the chains of big government off the people? Like rejecting Lucifer's plan to force people to be "good"? Hmmm. I would recommend reading the Book of Mormon. Carefully and completely. A significant portion of it is a treatise against exactly what the Democrats have been doing for decades (and in some cases, for over a century; FDR's Raw Deal, anyone?).

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    Sept. 4, 2012 10:14 p.m.

    Now I remember why I could never stomach the Republican Party. It's true, as a Democrat I am opposed to my chosen party's platform views on abortion (which California Republicans support anyway) and same-gender marriage (which many Republican/Libertarians support). But I honestly believe that government has a place in helping the poor and indigent, especially those who are mentally or physically disabled and who have no safety net like the Church.

    I am willing to vote for Republicans, and I hardly consider myself an adamant Democrat, but everytime I run into the Rocky Mountain Right Wing, I feel like I'd rather be a Democrat than the independent I probably really am.

    The Church needs believing members who belong to Democratic Party, if for no other reason than to point out to Republicans that there are as many tenets of Republicanism that are against the Gospel as they wish to point out in the Democratic Party, and if Mormon Republicans aren't careful, they will find themselves believing more in the Party than the Church, something Mormon Democrats rarely if ever do.

  • DistantThunder Vincentown, NJ
    Sept. 4, 2012 10:04 p.m.

    Democrat Hypocrisy is breathtaking. Democrats give significantly less to charity than do Republicans. But Democrats want to use the bully stick of the government to beat money out of productive citizen to hand over to the government. That's corrupt.

  • PP Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 10:02 p.m.

    truthseeker - you greatly misunderstand Elder Oaks comments, and you misunderstand freedom vs accountability/consequences. he said we all have freedom. He did not say that it is OK for you to take away freedom, or set aside the consequences of your choices. The church leaders have made it clear that laws are appropriate. You still have your freedom but when you abuse it the law provides the consequences. The liberals are not trying to remove freedom, they are trying to remove consequences - in other words they promise absolution while creating totalitarianism. I think I have heard that plan before.

  • PP Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 9:54 p.m.

    I would just like to clear up a certain lie told about Ronald Reagan and his signing of an abortion bill. ThereYouGo would try and have us believe that Reagan was a supporter of abortion. A minute amount of research easily found that in 1967, as California Governor Reagan indeed signed an abortion bill but leaving it at that is very deceptive. In 67 abortion was not on the political radar and the bill was only supposed to allow abortion for "Life and mental health of Mom, rape and incest". Sound familiar? That is the churches stand. However, doctors took the mental health clause and stretched it far beyond its intended purpose. Further, after much consultation and study Reagan signed the bill because he knew it would be passed by the California legislature anyway. He signed it because he hoped it would limit the excesses if it was forced through the legislature. He and his democratic opponent were appalled at the results. He said that it was his only major policy mistake ever and it shaped his strong pro-life stance when he was president. I think thats called repentance :)

  • Patrick Henry West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 9:39 p.m.

    The question this article really brings up is what is the proper role of government? At what point does it become immoral to take money from others to provide services to others. Conversely, at what point does it become immoral for those with wealth to let those who are in need suffer needlessly.

  • Rocket Science Brigham City, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 9:37 p.m.

    The LDS Church is non partisan but encourages all to participate in the political process. We can be good members of the church and be for any candidate. So true are the words of Ronald Reagan, "We must be cautious in claiming 'God is on our side" the real question is 'Are we on His side". May we all, no matter what party we favor, seek to do the Lords will and live His praise.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 9:31 p.m.

    Every Latter-day Saint should read "The Proper Role of Government" By Ezra Taft Benson. Every NON Latter-day Saint should read "The Proper Role of Government" By Ezra Taft Benson. Among its many gems, the idea that you would never dream of going into your neighbor's home and take his money, so why would you elect a government to do it for you?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Sept. 4, 2012 9:27 p.m.

    I tend to vote Republican. Also, some Republican social policies are more compatible with LDS values. This is especially true given recent changes to the Democratic Party Platform. However, the church emphasizes political neutrality and so should we.

    Anyone who thinks you cannot be LDS and vote Democratic should consider that that James Faust was strongly Democratic and he was as good of a man as I can imagine.

    Whatever any of us may think of certain Democrats or of some Democratic policies, if James Faust could find something good there, we can be sure that there is something of value within the Democratic Party.

    We should be careful about passing judgement on others based on their party politics.

  • Warrior Parent Belle Glade, FL
    Sept. 4, 2012 9:06 p.m.

    The headline should be clarified with regard to Democrat policies. They are anything BUT democratic

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:55 p.m.

    huh? we can't enforce laws? so if we believe it is wrong to murder and someone else doesn't then we can't enforce our belief? how do you spell clueless?

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:52 p.m.

    "Howell said his values as a Democrat stem from his faith.

    'That's what guides me — not party platform,' he said. "I'm attending the convention to share my faith, and then I'm going home."


    Well, if he's got any chance of reconciling his faith with the party platform, he'd better work awfully hard to rid the current Democrat Party platform of its support for (I'd say tacit encouragement of) indiscriminate abortion on demand. Particularly tax-payer funded abortion.

    No matter how you slice it, killing children, whose only crime is being unwanted, is and will always be incompatible with the LDS church and every other decent organization, religious or otherwise.

    It's an unspeakable abomination.

  • canco Sandy, Utah
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:51 p.m.

    Taking any reference to God out of their party platform certainly espouses "LDS values" doesn't it? Frankly, I don't know how anyone can be a Mormon and a Democrat.

  • Upson Downs Sandy, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:49 p.m.

    How can a practicing LDS member support a political party supporting abortion, and same sex marriage like the Democratic party does? Both priciples fly in the face of LDS Doctrine. They may say that they do not support these platforms of the Democratic Party but when they vote for a character such as Obama, they are just strengthening the positions they say they do not support. Obama and the other Democrats they vote for are going to further the cause of abortion and gay marriage. How can they justify this position?

  • spydyee Asheville, NC
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:40 p.m.

    "The LDS churches philosophy is far different than the democratic view." Really jasonlivy? What LDS Church do you go to? Certainly not the one I go to. Every 1st Sunday I sit beside three hungry children on Fast Sunday. I see parents struggling to keep their kids from 7 years old and up settled as their tummies are hungry. The money for the meals that are missed are paid to fast offerings. Fast offerings are there to help those in need. There are no time limits on how long the church will help. There is not a carved in stone work requirement however there is a service expectation at whatever level the individual can serve. I know a family that has been receiving Church assistance for over 10 years because they are all disabled. They serve in multiple callings in the church. The church I go to is the same church that was on the ground in New Orleans after Katrina. My church is the church that issued the call to our stake which we gladly answered when we went to Alabama after the tornadoes devastated that state. Not all churches do what we do so the government has to.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:32 p.m.

    I am willing to bet that NONE of the Conservatives/Republicans making the hateful, judgmental comments on here have ever READ the Democratic Party Platform.

    Any takers?

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:31 p.m.

    To Baccus0902 – You have great intentions helping the poor via the government, but please learn from history: the government is wasteful, inefficient, and often corrupt. The welfare state has actually promoted unwed motherhood. Liberal’s good intentions have indeed backfired, and perpetuated poverty and dependence.

    Kudos to all who beat me to the punch: socialism and government that approaches it is devilish, because it removes freedom. What the LDS dems really want is the Law of Consecration, and it can never be implemented by the government, but only by the Church among those who have so covenanted.

    I couldn’t believe that one LDS dem in the article said, well, we don’t accept abortion, just like LDS Republicans have to reject the GOP lack of care for the poor. Baloney. The GOP does care for the poor, and their policies actually help the poor. The liberal “caring” policies only keep the poor, poor. That said, I do accept a very limited role for the government as a true last ditch safety net.

  • spydyee Asheville, NC
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:25 p.m.

    With regard to abortion I do not believe that it is an issue that we have the right to legislate. This is a place where the morals of the individual are in question not the legality of the medical procedure. Let their churches stand in judgement of their morals and let the government regulate the quality of the medical procedure so that women, regardless of their morality have a safe medical procedure. Also allow all women their agency. Try to remember that it was Lucifer that wanted to take from us our agency. Jesus wanted to allow us our agency even though that meant that some would not return to our Father in Heaven. We, as followers of Christ do not have the right to enforce our beliefs on those who do not believe like we do.

  • spydyee Asheville, NC
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:20 p.m.

    I started to list specific people that I wanted to address but I would have had to list most everyone here.

    I decided instead to address the issues.

    With regard to the Hymn and the government being the means to that end I ask all of you why it is OK to pay fast offerings and tithing to the church and have the church redistribute those finds to the needy but not OK to pay taxes and have our government (of the people by the people for the people) redistribute the funds. You are saying that socialization and redistribution of wealth in the name of God is OK but it is not Ok if it is done by the government. That type of duplicity is illogical and breeds contempt and confusion and those things are not of the Lord.

  • JDS1 St George, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:14 p.m.

    To JRGL, The problem with having your freedom to chose the democratic platform, is that several principles are in direct conflict with those taught by the LDS church. I think it's called hypocrisy.

  • cindyacre Shelley, ID
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:12 p.m.

    If one is trying to reconcile the Democratic platform with gospel principles, one only need look to how the Church "mandates" serving. They don't. Callings are issued, accepted or not, people are asked to bring in meals, help, volunteer, etc. If there were a major catastrophe I don't believe that the Church will REQUIRE everyone to bring their food to the ward or Stake Center for redistribution. They will ask everyone to look out for their neighbor. They will do WHAT THEY DO NOW - which means, the Church will ALWAYS respect AGENCY.

    That is what the issue is here - AGENCY. When we allow others (i.e. the government or anyone, for that matter) mastership over our agency - in any form, we lose freedom. The agency to decide what to do with MY BLESSINGS - is up to me - and with the guidance of the Lord, I will know what to do. Why take that opportunity away from anyone?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 4, 2012 8:06 p.m.

    It is clear from several of the comments here some Republicans don't understand God given agency.

    Dallin H. Oakes:

    "First, because free agency is a God-given precondition to the purpose of mortal life, no person or organization can take away our free agency in mortality.

    Second, what can be taken away or reduced by the conditions of mortality is our freedom, the power to act upon our choices. Free agency is absolute, but in the circumstances of mortality freedom is always qualified.

    Freedom may be qualified or taken away (1) by physical laws, including the physical limitations with which we are born, (2) by our own action, and (3) by the action of others, including governments."
    (Free Agency and Freedom)

  • straighthook Irmo, SC
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:51 p.m.

    I seem to remember a commandment sort of like "thou shalt not lie". Maybe if Harry Reid would release HIS tax returns so we all know he is perfect and honest in all his dealings with his fellow citizens. Fortunately, I've seen and heard enough politicians to know who is helping to spend us into oblivion. Harry, Nancy and Obama make George W. Bush's over spending look tiny. They now claim to be worried about federal over spending and the deficit! Come on! No one can honestly believe that! Fire the empty chair and make Harry the leader of the minority. Hopefully then, he can't do as much damage to the nation as he has already.

  • Tiger5 Cache county, USA
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:50 p.m.

    Power and Humility are two colors that down run together in a true LDS member.
    Sorry Harry, but the gig is up.

  • Warren Kay Holladay, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:49 p.m.

    Brother Janis, Do you really think it is only the far right that holds us in disdain? Every article Maureen Dowd writes in the NY Times disparages Romney for his Mormon faith.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:44 p.m.

    Ah. Nothing like Politics and Religion to bring out the cannibals.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:32 p.m.

    "Mitt Romney has not paid taxes in ten years."--Harry Red

    This is not true.

    LDS values do not include lies.

    Abortion is murder! Sorry Harry, but isn't LDS values either.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:31 p.m.

    "Earlier today, the Democratic National Convention approved the party's 2012 platform, one that lacks any mention of "God.""

    That was from another article today. Is it so hard to believe that a church whose members can I say they know God lives would support a party who clearly wants to remove God from everything? Any LDS person with any common sense would not truly follow this party if they truly understood what it stood for. Taking God out of a country when God is the reason it was built up is just asking for God to get rid of our country, cuz who needs Him? Not the Democrats.

  • peter Alpine, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:30 p.m.

    How is government dole compatible with any LDS doctrine?

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:24 p.m.


    "...fueling abortions to millions of innocents...".

    Daily we see the republican party venerate ronald reagan.

    ronald reagan signed an abortion bill that led to the murders of over 2,000,000 babies.

    Outrage directed at Democrats.

    Yet, no outrage directed at republican icon ronald reagan.

  • MissKris Lehi, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:21 p.m.

    Yeah, Satan wanted to MAKE everyone obey- and the Savior wanted us to have the CHOICE!! The Democrats want to take away everyone's CHOICE and opportunity to share and help others and make it a REQUIREMENT where lack of payment (tax evasion) is punishable by prison. Thanks, but I'll take the SAVIOR'S way of freedom of choice!!!

  • Gr8Dane Tremonton, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:18 p.m.

    So sad. How in the world can any mormon who is truly committed to living the gospel adhere and support a National Party platform that calls for (current platform from Charlotte, NC). (1) Abortion on demand "regardless of a woman's ability to pay" (translated: taxpayer funded). (2) Removed any reference whatsoever to God or Diety (3) Supports government sanctioning (and federal supremacy over state laws) to validate gay marriage (against Church position and Proclamaion on the Family). That's just a starting point.

    Sorry, but singing Kum Bay Yah from the Democratic hymn book does not cure the foundational deficiencies and immoral nature of many provisions and policies of the National Democratic Party which starting in 1972, has been hijacked by the extreme left wing in our country.

    Harry Reid is a poor example of LDS values in the Senate. He has enabled the extreme left-wing Obama agenda which is leading this country into economic and social ruin, and those tenants put forth in the Proclamation on the Family which emphasize traditional marriage, self-sufficiency and moral responsibility.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:08 p.m.

    Have I voted to require others to do good in the world today?
    Have I mandated that they help anyone in need?
    Have I given tax dollars to the sad
    In an attempt to make them feel glad?
    If not, I have failed indeed.
    Has anyone's burden been lightened today
    Because someone was forced, under penalty of imprisonment, to share?
    Have the sick and the weary been helped on their way?
    When they needed my help, did I insist that someone else be there?

  • Bastiatarian TUCSON, AZ
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:05 p.m.

    Every active Mormon knows that there was a certain person who opposed the Father and his plan and presented a certain plan in which he would force everybody to do "good" (an impossibility, of course, since if it's forced it's not good, as the scriptures make crystal clear).

    I rejected that person, his followers, and that plan then, and I reject that person, his earthly representatives, and that plan now as well.

    The Democratic anti-liberty platform of coercion and control is diametrically opposed to the Father's plan. Unfortunately, the Republican big-government platform (as opposed to the Democratic huge-government platform) is in conflict with His plan as well, just to a lesser degree.

    Vote for me. I'll leave you alone to exercise your agency as long as you don't violate anybody's right to his/her life, liberty, or property. Just as God intended.

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 7:05 p.m.

    My problem with the Democratic Party is not their stance on looking out of the little guy. It's how they do it. I don't believe that 'cradle to grave' entitlements are the way to go. A 'Nanny State' only breeds laziness and dependency. The LDS churches philosophy is far different than the democratic view.

    I agree with much of what the democrats believe in helping our neighbor and looking out for others. Compassion is there greatest attribute! I think we need their voice so it is part of the national discussion.

    However, the majority of the Democratic platform goes completely against my LDS beliefs! Pro gay marriage, pro-choice, taking God out of the public square, over extended contraception, lack of support for Israel and Jews, too much entitlement spending, taking away personal responsibility (for example...the economy isn't our fault, it's Bush's), secular (no God) progressive (getting rid of tradition) principles, relying on our inept federal government vs the local church leaders for welfare, relying on our inept federal government for anything!

    These items and more are too much for me to ever consider becoming a Democrat.

  • jrgl CEDAR CITY, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:51 p.m.

    Yes! About time we all realize that there are Mormon Republicans & Democrats. Harry Reid is my hero. He's from the small town of Searchlight, NV & a fellow alumni of Southern Utah University. I am proud of the job he has done for our country. I'm glad fellow Democrats are speaking up in Utah. The church doesn't dictate which political party we are involved with. We have the freedom of choice within our religion.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:43 p.m.

    I'm sure most of the people here complaining about the government "forcing" people to give money have no problem with Republicans inserting themselves into a woman's private health matter or denying two consenting adults the right to get married. And I'm sure those same people would understand if I were to declare that they couldn't have any of the money I pay into Social Security every month.

    And yes, I'm Mormon. Sixth generation and BOC...

  • David Centerville, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:41 p.m.

    King Benjamin, in the Book of Mormon, offered an outstanding model of leadership & government. He served others & did not receive money for his service. Mitt declined his paychecks as Governor of Massachussetts, & has stated he would do the same when he is president.

    King Benjamin warned of taxation-that high taxes are used for the greed & power of poor leaders.

    I feel there is a role for political leaders to encourage & foster service & charitable giving, but not to tax to punish their enemies, or to create class warfare & divide the nation. And not to take from one group & give to another. And not to create a population of people who feel entitled or dependent upon government assistance rather than the LDS church's much better way of assisting those in need.

    Our government should study & pattern it's laws & assistance upon the LDS Church's teachings & methods.

    Neither party represents a perfect platform. But I find the national democratic platform to be very far from my beliefs.

  • Rick2009 MESA, AZ
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:39 p.m.

    Yes I am sure that Harry Reid and Craig Janis are way crazy for the Dem's views on abortion, same sex marriage and the out of control debt ceiling. It's true that many General Authorities were democrats in the first half of the last century. I am a republican but vote for the constitution party candidate. There is no real difference between the two parties because I feel that they are lead at the top by the same people who have ulterior motives, so they play one hand against the other and win eaither way.

    I believe Romney is a man of greater moral integrity than Pres. O, but if he gets elected will find that he is in way over his head. But I can't see how liberty loving people could vote for anything democrat.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:39 p.m.

    As a Christian I Cannot be a Republican.

    The words of the prophets, Jesus, and his apostles tell us through time how to worship God. Not by Rituals, or even keeping the Sabath as prescribed by the priesthood, but by taking care of the poor, the hungry, the widow, etc.

    We as a country should be one and take are of each other. Hopefully we will become a global community.

    @ Sand Flea

    We have representaive democracy. When I support my political leaders I do because they represent my principles. To properly take care of the widow, or the orphan, takes more than just the good will of a few. It requires that we as community, as nation, organize it and enforce it.

    We can give wonderful speeches about "if you give a man a fish he will eat once. If you teach him how to fish he will eat always". Sounds good, but how long does it take to teach a man to fish? Do we provide the man with tools and knowledge? Or just give him a pamphlet on how to do it?
    Helping in a proper and consistent way takes a village.

    Senator Reid is a great man.

  • conservative scientist Lindon, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:27 p.m.

    "Has anyone's burden been lighter today, because I was willing (or perhaps unwilling) to share?" but the government forces me to against my will with the penalty being prison if I refuse. I loved the article from a few weeks ago stating that more liberal states give far less in charity than conservative states. One explanation was that they are more "willing" to pay taxes to help their neighbor. Ah yes, but...conservatives pay the same taxes (willing or unwilling as they don't want to go to prison) and then give extra money as well. Helping others is very important. Free will is even more important - even when not all will be charitable.

    When the Lord asks us at the final judgment what we personally did to help the poor, I don't think he will accept the explanation: "The proof that I care about the poor is that I vote Democrat...I vote to take money from the rich and give to the poor". Very generous - with someone else's money - won't cut it for each of us individually.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:19 p.m.

    toosmartfor you:
    key word "were general authorities" Past tense. I'm sure October's General Conference will promote, gay marriage, abortions, government dependency, and alienating Jerusalem and removing God from the dem's platform. You just can't make this stuff up.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:14 p.m.

    Makes me sick to see this spin.
    My church is not meant for dirty politics
    Stay away please.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:04 p.m.

    What a picture. Harry, nice platform you and the dems promote. Good luck in getting the Mormon majority. Little Harry is speaking about the rich. Harry, how did you get your money?

  • Patrick Henry West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 6:02 p.m.

    The Hymn says, "Have I done any good in the world today?" a group of some 200 Latter-day Saints sang enthusiastically in a crowded meeting room Tuesday afternoon. "Have I helped anyone in need? Have I cheered up the sad and made someone feel glad? If not I have failed indeed."

    The keyword to consider is the word "I". It is a question which prompts self reflection and action to self correct as necessary. What I have an issue with is when people use government as the vehicle to use my money to do good that we cannot afford. It is a matter of fact that we are running a serious deficit. Even after we stop all the taxes cuts to corporations, end the wars, etc we are still running a massive deficit.

    I want to help people personally and I want government to do good for the people. Before we do this balance the budget before we spend ourselves into oblivion all in the name of helping others.

  • USA Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:57 p.m.

    Wonderful to see this continuation of the "Mormon moment." May the Lord bless their efforts.

  • Demosthenes Rexburg, ID
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:53 p.m.

    Mormon Democrats have a lot of rationalizing to do. Jesus NEVER taught that it was the proper role of government to administer charity. He taught it as a principle for individuals and the church. Republicans more closely adhere to Jesus's teachings (not to mention abortion, gay marriage, deficit spending, confiscatory tax rates, unfettered federal spending, etc.).

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:52 p.m.

    "...because I was willing to share..." other people's money.
    There's the rub, Harry. It stops being charity when it takes the form of confiscated taxes.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:44 p.m.

    "to unite LDS values, Democratic policies" - Good luck with that!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:43 p.m.

    I know it's hard to be LDS and a Democrat, but many have managed to do that. The most notable ones were General Authorities. So I think the ides of being for the ordinary guy is a virtue. I just am having a hard time (maybe because I'm human, at least at times) squaring Harry Reid's singing of "Have I done any good..." with his accusations of Mitt Romney "not paying any taxes for a decade" according to Harry's 'undisclosed sources'.

    In college I was a democrat because there were so few in that party it was easy to get elected a state delegate and influence the outcome. After some time I decided their national platform wasn't for me and switched to being a republican. After they locked out non-party members from voting in the Utah primary, I became an independent, where I vote for the person, not the party. I have never voted a straight party ticket in my life.

    Utah needs a two-party system for openness in government; DC needs less corpuption and Chicago politics isn't going to produce it.

    Unless we do better, heaven help us all........

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:24 p.m.

    LDS values like "abortion on demand" and "gay marraige"? How do you identify yourself as a LDS demo-rat knowing full well you are fueling abortions to millions of innocents nation wide? "Better that a mill stone be hung around your neck and you drowned in the depts of the sea than to harm one of these little ones". Who said that ??

  • kiaoraguy Provo, UT
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:22 p.m.

    So how come this is pretty much the first time in the National media that Reid is talking about his faith? So every time that Romney was mocked or disparaged in some way about his faith, why didn't his fellow Saint come to his defense and help set things straight? Me thinks there be a bit of politicking going on here

    Sept. 4, 2012 5:10 p.m.

    The hymn says "I" not the Government...

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    Sept. 4, 2012 5:10 p.m.

    Awesome, I am a Republican and sing those same words and feel the same joy in helping others in need. I love to use my money to help others, then to have the government use my money to help others.