Hamblin & Peterson: Hamblin and Peterson: Anti-theists can't erase Christianity

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  • Verdad Orem, UT
    Aug. 28, 2012 11:44 p.m.

    "Odd" was a polite way of saying "based on a transparently obvious misreading" in the first instance, and "absurdly illogical" in the second.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Aug. 27, 2012 8:42 p.m.

    RE: Anti-theists can't erase Christianity.

    Christian Churches in the Former Soviet Union. Russian Orthodox, 50,000,000 ,Roman Catholic 5,500,000 Eastern-rite Catholic 5,000,000 ,Armenian Apostolic 3,000,000 ,Georgian Orthodox* 2,000,000. Protestant Evangelical Christians-Baptists, Lutherans, Hungarian Reformed, Seventh-Day Adventists, Mennonites , Methodists . Total Protestants 2,960,000. One essential that separates Christians churches from non-Christian is the Tri-une God.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which now claims about 20,000 members. The Jehovah witnesses,Non-Trinitarian as well.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Aug. 27, 2012 6:23 p.m.

    Now there is a persuasive argument: "Your comments are odd."

    The incisiveness and rigorous logic of such a position speaks for itself.

  • Verdad Orem, UT
    Aug. 27, 2012 5:31 p.m.

    It certainly seems odd to claim that Peterson and Hamblin are "playing the persecution card" and trying to set themselves up as "victims" when all that they've done is to accurately summarize what the Soviet state did to religious believers. But it's equally odd to maintain that atheism had nothing at all to do with the fierce and very precise targeting, for torture and death, of theists, specifically, by officially and vocally atheistic regimes.

  • fkratz Portland, OR
    Aug. 27, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    Most are very aware of 20th century abuses by the totalitarian regimes of Lenin and Stalin, who used their propaganda, military power and control to destroy millions of lives. And, there is no denying that these men were atheists. But why resort to weighing human depravity as is often done in these debates, when you surely understand that atheism was not the primary mover; it was about power and control. No belief system comes away unscathed when such atrocities are committed. Nazi Germany is an example.

    People can and do live perfectly happy, moral and productive lives without God. This is not militant anti-theism, just a willingness to live life without the belief in an intervening deity. I don't see anything sinister about that. Dr. Peterson, you've been to Scandinavian countries. How are they doing with less and less religion? Ranking high on the world's happiness scale offers a clue, but you knew that already.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 27, 2012 11:30 a.m.

    "Any informed person of christian doctrine knows that those who are true disciples and truly live the teachings and morals of Christ, those who truly follow the gospel of Christ, would never do any of those things.

    The same can said for Judaism and buddahism and most religions."

    The same can be said about MOST Non-religious people.

    I would bet that Atheists do not "murder, torture, and enslave men" at any greater intervals than the religious. And very possibly less so.

  • William Gronberg Payson, UT
    Aug. 27, 2012 11:13 a.m.

    "All the violence, political posturing, destruction, etc. follows from that."

    The "that" the poster is referring to is "religion". I am perhaps too literal. But the word "All" means 100 percent to me. Is that the posters meaning of "all" when applied to "violence, political posturing, destruction..."?? Non-sense if that is his or her message.

    As an individual, did Ted Bundy practice violence and destruction because of religion? He and many thousands of others in the history of this world had other terrible issues.

    As groups of people doing evil deeds, how does religion motivate the thousands of murderers and rapists in the eastern regions of the Congo in central Africa? I think money and minerals have a far bigger role than religion. The eastern Congo is the rape capital of this planet in the year 2012.

  • freedomingood provo, Utah
    Aug. 27, 2012 9:27 a.m.

    Were is this nation on anti-theists threatening everyone? I say off with thier heads!

    Now seriously, there is no war on religion. There are however lots of people that are tired of wars and arguments about religion.

    Agree on freedom of religion - including atheism.

    Can't agree on a type of prayer in school. Everybody seems to agree on a moment of silence. Stick with that.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Aug. 27, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    "Militant anti-theists"...?

    To whom are these authors referring?

    More fictitious enemies so they can play the persecution card?

    More straw men arguments?

    We should have expected as much.

    The biggest problem with religion is that it condemns, ostracizes, and persecutes those who cannot "see" the "New Clothes" allegedly belonging to the Emperor of the Universe. All the violence, political posturing, destruction, etc. follows from that.

    As soon as believers admit and live as if atheists are just as "good" and "worthy" as any believer, then there is no problem with religion... other than it is a bunch of false stories.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 27, 2012 8:09 a.m.

    Re: thetruth,
    Thank you for your insights. It is confusing why there is so much evil and destruction in the world; especially from a Mormon prespective point of view that man is born into this world as good and being good, it is amazing how in such a short life time he can become so bad, but religion and politics accounts for most of it. Or perhaps it is because the Devil rules, but if so religion and politics are his effective tools. So what is the answer.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Aug. 26, 2012 8:17 p.m.

    RE: skeptic

    The scriptures say there is opposition in ALL things.

    It appears, any belief system, or NON-belief system including atheism, can be twisted and used to murder, torture, and enslave men.

    Any informed person of christian doctrine knows that those who are true disciples and truly live the teachings and morals of Christ, those who truly follow the gospel of Christ, would never do any of those things.

    The same can said for Judaism and buddahism and most religions.

    OR are you saying it is okay the Judge the whole by few bad or extreme individuals?

    But why continue to ignore the damage of done by the non-religious?

    This article could have mentioned the millions murdered and property taken in russia, to the gulags of sibera, to the mass starvation of million in lithuania,

    it could have mentioned the millions murdered tortured and imprisoned in china, cambodia, and cuba,

    or the athiest-based revolution in france because a few were greedy for power and wealth that others had.

    or nazi germany or mussolini's italy,

    or the many other dictators and totalitarian regimes that have hurt many,

    that have nothing to do with religion.

  • William Gronberg Payson, UT
    Aug. 26, 2012 10:08 a.m.

    This article is a fine essay on the war against all religion in the former Soviet Union. However, it contains one major error of fact. Only one word needs to be changed in this paragraph.

    "All of this dramatically changed with the Russian Revolution in 1917. The original broadly based revolution was swiftly co-opted by Lenin and the Marxists, who promised liberation not only from the feudal tyranny of the czars but from the spiritual bondage of Christianity."

    That wrong word is "Marxists". BOLSHEVIKS would have been correct. Bolsheviks were the tiny minority of revolutionaries who stole the Russian Revolution of 1917. Bolsheviks were Marxist-Leninist.

    "The original broadly based revolution" contained a great variety of people and organizations. There are perhaps as many varieties of Marxists as there are varieties of breads or soups. Many Marxists are very anti-Leninist. An example would be Willy Brandt of Germany. He was mayor of West Berlin and Chancellor of West Germany. The Leninist version of Marxism produced the Soviet Union and 74 years of tragedy.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 26, 2012 8:47 a.m.

    It seems spirituality, dreams and superstition are ingrained as part of man's existence in a meaningful way, but it is the blatherskites that twist it into commercial religions that enslave man into stupidity and corruption.