To "Mark B" prove it. Give us an unbiased analysis (the Tax Policy
Center analysis is flawed and can't be used either) that shows that Mitt
Romney's tax obligation would go down.There are some serious
rebuttals to the TPC's analysis that you and the liberal media are clinging
on to. Read "No, Romney Won't Raise Your Taxes $2,000" in the
American Spectator. The better analysis showing why the TPC's analysis is
full of garbage is at Bloomberg in their article "Romney Tax Math Gets
Easier With More Breaks on Table". Basically the TPC did an analysis with
incomplete data. Just that fact alone should show you that it doesn't
work.To "xscribe" wealth is still down, only the stock
market is up, and it is not quite up to its previous high.To
"JoeBlow" so then you agree that the wealthy do pay their "fair
share" of taxes. If you look at things in terms of income it is worse
because we tax income, not wealth. According to the Huffington Post, the top 1%
take home 24% of all income, yet as you point out pay 71% of all income taxes.
Ryan's tax plan reduces Mitt's personal tax obligation, assuming he
has one, to about 1% of his income, which is mainly from investment income. IIs
this what we should look forward to? Because the other 12% of his current tax
rate (so he says) has to made up somehow, and I'd prefer it not be by me.
Keep on believing that you are not spinning. Yes, wealth was down, and now it
is back up, almost to W's high, at least in the stock market. Wealth has
also been up and down since America's inception. Keep on spinning!
@JoeBlow - Nice stats. First some facts. According to Federal Reserve, wealth
was down 40% 2007 to 2010 where has that gotten us. It puts us in the mess we
are in now, has nothing to do with taxes anyone has paid. Why did it all decline
at the end of 2006 into 2007 etc. Most think it was caused by the residential
housing boom coming to an end. Why did it end. Clinton and his honyocks thought
it good to create lending for people who could not afford homes. Remember? Thus
creating BKs, foreclosures, high debt, etc. Thus creating hard times for banks,
lenders, thus slowing US growth. Blame Bush? Blame Dems for thinking everyone is
entitled without having to work for it. Answer your question, how much taxes do
I think they should pay? Their fair share which I believe they do, I think
everyone should pay their taxes so the rich do not have to cover them and be
blamed for it.@xscribe - Again, Ryan does not support ALL of
Obama's Medicare plan. Does he support some, yes, all no! The spin is on
yours and atl's. Sorry but those are facts.
@Utah Bruin: Of course Ryan doesn't support all of Obama's Medicare
plan, but he just so happens to support the very same cuts to Medicare that you
Blast Obama for in your first post.Seems that you are the one who is
spinning this the way you want it to read.
UtahBruin,Are you aware that the top 10% in this country owned about
73% of the wealth in 2007. And that number has certainly climbed in the last 5
years.What percentage of the taxes do you think that they should
pay?FYI, in 2007, they paid about 71%
"So a small business owner who makes over 250k but has to pay his employees
and building and insurance for his employees etc.... probably brings home around
90k - 125K per year."Patriot,FYI, employees salaries
and building and insurance are business costs and would be deducted as business
expense. In your example, he is taxed on 90k - 125k per year. And
Obama is proposing that his taxes would not go up.It is a fairly
easy concept. Profit = money received minus business expenses.Are
you unaware of that or trying to spin it to make a false point?
@atl34 - Ryan does NOT support Obamas medicare tax cuts, he favors a few. You
are spinning this to read how you want it to read.@Craig Clark -
"Distortions about Obama", What has Obama done that is not distorted?
THe guy has flat out failed the American people. That is a FACT!Also, you say "I’m just skeptical that either he or Romney intend to
honestly tell the American people that their long term plan is...." You
mean like the honesty Obama portrayed while running for President last time...Oh
yeah, there was no honesty, he lied and is doing it again. And, what plan of
Obama's, this guy has no plan on anything, especially our budget. When did
you last see his budget proposal, you haven't because he has not submitted
on yet in fours years on time.@Mad Hatter - You must be good friends
with Romney to know all this inside detail. Why didn't you let us all know
who is Vp pick would be weeks ago if you are that close. The taste of
bitterness never goes away.@djc - At least they have jobs. Now pay
@atl134 - "Broaden tax base means to make people at the bottom pay more
taxes" I think everyone should pay their fair share, the rich, the poor,
the middle class. And if it means paying more taxes even as a poor or middle
class person than so be it. The rich are trying to create new jobs, new
businesses, etc. There is a reason they are called the rich, because they built
it. There is a reason they are called the poor and middle class, not because
they are not hard workers, but because they didn't do what the rich people
did. Success is what you make it, it is not handed to you like the way the Dems
want it. You cannot ask the rich to carry the poor because they don't want
to do it themselves. Even with Romneys taxes, $3MM seems a pretty fair share.
Obamas additional 5+% he paid more than Romney didn't even total a tenth of
what Romney paid. So pay your fair share, I think Romney did and then some
along with other members classified as the rich. If everyone just paid, the
rich wouldn't have to cover them.
I would tell "patriot" that anyone working in any of the thousands of
service industry jobs in and around Salt Lake City or any other city or town in
the nation making at or near the minimum wage, or approximately $19,000 a year,
would consider the amounts you named as rich. Considering all the jobs created
by Staples, Walmart, Target, and Home Depot and their ilk are at or near this
level, there are a lot of Americans who aren't rich. No matter how you use
fancy words to paint a pretty picture of the situation, a tax cut for rich
Americans that is revenue neutral must be paid for by the poorer Americans.
There is no other logical explanation. $19000 - 2470 is not enough to live on
in America. That is how much a 13% tax on a full-time Walmart worker would be.
However, most Walmart workers don't get 40 hours a week, so their income is
significantly less than $19000. Balancing the budget on the backs on the poor
is just plain wrong.
re:atl134Romney and Ryan favor tax cuts for the rich? Where did you
get that from other than listening to MSNBC? I suppose you consider small
business owners RICH ... correct? So a small business owner who makes over 250k
but has to pay his employees and building and insurance for his employees
etc.... probably brings home around 90k - 125K per year. But that is RICH in a
liberals mind. Also, for the non-business owners who make more than 250K and who
get whacked with Obama's tax increases do you really think these people are
going to turn around and invest in small business now ... after getting
slaughtered with new Obama taxes? Nope - not going to happen. So who REALLY gets
hurt by Obama's "fairness" tax? It is the poor souls standing in
the unemployment lines looking for work - any work - but unfortunately nobody is
hiring because they just got whacked - or will get whacked - with Obamas tax
increases. I would say that is pretty darn "unfair" to be out of work
for so long. How about you?? Romney / Ryan WILL cut taxes so that small
business can start hiring again - after a 4 year Obama nightmare!!
We all know that Mitt Romney likes being the boss. He doesn't like being
criticized because he knows everything. It must be a very unusualy situation
for him to be questioned by anyone he considers a subordinate or inferior to
himself. This is an interesting character flaw.Having been raised
to believe that he is right in every instance, is now center stage and things he
says are not automatically accepted as "truth". Even his wife
recognizes that the things the Romneys say is subject to criticism and she, like
her husband, don't want to hear it.Romney is used to issuing
proclamations, edicts, instructions, and setting policies without anyone
questioning his judgement. Once he makes a decision (assuming he doesn't
change that decision because of some beneficial need), he expects, demands, that
others follow it to the letter. He is a man who is not used to not being in
complete charge, which is why he has such difficulty relating to real people.
He's been a boss so long that he will always see himself as the boss, the
authority, the one who should be in charge.
I believe Paul Ryan when he asserts he wants this debate on Medicare. I’m
just skeptical that either he or Romney intend to honestly tell the American
people that their long term plan is to phase out Federal government
administration of Medicare supplanting it over time with a subsidy (voucher)
system. The public needs to understand how it will leave gaps in coverage that
many will be unable to make up cost differences out of pocket.The
Romney/Ryan plan is rooted not in cost concerns so much as in conservative
principles eschewing individual dependency on government as pernicious and
debilitating. There’s nothing wrong with making that argument. But
there’s a fundamental dishonesty in insisting insisting that they’re
trying to save Medicare. The public deserves to know what their real intentions
Obama says - "So, New Hampshire, here is what you need to know: Since I have
been in office, I have strengthened Medicare."And you did this
how? Was it by taking the $500Billion from Medicare, ten years of cuts to pay
for what and help Medicare how? So taking the money from Medicare to fund
ObamaCare is strengthening Medicare? C'mon Really! Are people really that
ignorant. The claims that the cuts help benefit Medicare fraud, to make the
program more efficient, how do you make it more efficient by taking their money.
Does that sound familiar throughout this campaign. Take money and spend it
elsewhere and then take no fiscal responsibility of the growing national debt.
He has taken all this money and where has it gone, better yet what has it
produced. Absolutely Nothing! This guy is a joke. Can we give someone else a
try. People don't like the voucher idea, but giving government control of
health care, how is it any different. I will tell you, you get to make the
decisions yourself, unlike Obama making them for you. Seriously people, please
In view of Romney's considerable record of distortions of President
Obama's record, Mitt isn't exactly in a position of moral superiority
to be casting the first stone at anyone on that score.
And every time republicans say to "broaden the tax base" that means they
want people at the bottom to pay more taxes. That is literally what that phrase
means. As for Medicare, this article does a good job of noting that
Ryan himself (in his plan) supports the same Medicare cuts as Obama when it
comes to reducing inefficiencies and fraud in the system.
The Ryan budget explicitly says that it would cut tax credits so that it's
revenue neutral compared to current revenue. Romney/Ryan favor large tax cuts
for the rich, so the only way it could even out was to raise taxes on the poor.