Utes experienced growing pains in first year of Pac-12 competition

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  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 6, 2012 7:51 a.m.

    Big Utah fan

    "You are praying to whomever you pray to that this isn't the case. Unfortunately for you, you are dead wrong. I wonder what better recruits and more money in the program will equal???? Oh that's right, SUCCESS!"

    Well the delusion continues on doesn't it?

    The U will never out recruit the powerhouses of their conference.

  • BigUtahFan BOUNTIFUL, UT
    July 5, 2012 5:15 p.m.

    Sammy G....

    "A team that occasionally tasted success in the WAC and MWC in a 'big boy's will... probably not do any better if not worse."

    You are praying to whomever you pray to that this isn't the case. Unfortunately for you, you are dead wrong. I wonder what better recruits and more money in the program will equal???? Oh that's right, SUCCESS!

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 5, 2012 12:45 a.m.


    When "fans" distort the truth about BYU's temporary and short ordered schedule for the sole purpose of gaining some imaginary advantage to make them feel superior we know one thing... they are Ute fans.

    A team that is ignored by the AP and Coach's poll at the end of the season as opposed to a team that is recognized is... irrelevant.

    A team that goes 4-5 in its conference and that is tied for 6th, 7th and 8th place in a conference with 12 teams is... less than mediocre.

    A team that occasionally tasted success in the WAC and MWC in a 'big boy's will... probably not do any better if not worse.

    Keep the dream alive... runner-up in South Division.

    Wow, that's exciting.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    July 4, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    Glad to see the ankle biter Y fans out en mass again as they are always good for a laugh. When the meat of your season includes Idaho State, Idaho and New Mexico State you have no room to talk about a team that actuallly plays real teams. Keep the Quest for the BCS alive Y fan; it's good for you to dream. Enjoy the WAC.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    July 4, 2012 10:27 a.m.


    "the Utes level of incompetence is one of the 6 major conferences in the nation?"

    Since when is membership in a particular conference a litmus test for competence or incompetence?

    Everytime Utah fans try to make this silly argument, they completely invalidate EVERYTHING the Utes accomplished pre-PAC 12.

    2008 - meaningless
    2004 - meaningless
    1998 - meaningless
    1944 - meaningless

    UofU sports history - completely meaningless

    The ONLY thing you've "accomplished in the "competent" league is prove that you're a good punching bag for the truely "competent" programs in the league to pad their league records.

    First year of PAC 12 / Independence

    BYU(10-3) #25/#26
    Utah(8-5) unranked, LOSING PAC 12 record

    BYU(26-9) Top 50, sixth straight NCAA tournament and third straight NCAA tournament win
    Utah(6-25) Bottom 50, no NCAA tournament for the 6th time in the last 7 seasons

    Competence is measured by WINNING, not by who you associate with.

    Personal attacks and strawman arguments welcome... they'll simply prove that you have no valid rebuttals.


  • Pendergast SLC, UT
    July 4, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    to EdGrady

    So, the Utes level of incompetence is one of the 6 major conferences in the nation?

    That's a compliment not a put down. On behalf of Utah Alums & fans everywhere. Thank you!

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 3, 2012 4:29 p.m.

    Magma Ute

    As a BYU fan I've never pretended "that Utah had one of our better teams last year, and fared poorly in the conference."

    Nothing could be further from the truth. The only way that could be stated is if a Ute fan said his team was better last season, compared to what I may ask and a BYU fan pointing out the obvious that 4-5 in a conference is less than mediocre.

    Leave it to a Ute to spin that a 3 way tie in the South Division is something to write home to momma about.

    It's a known fact the Utes were / are average and did poorly in their first conference season as evidenced by losing to Colorado, a team that had not won a road game in 4 years.

    Wishful thinking about 'growing pains', seems more like a bad case of abdominal cramps.

    It's nice to wish for things, hope a is great thing. Look what it did for Colorado last year.

    Some teams in the PAC have been wishing for a long long long long long time for great things. They're still waiting.

    U are in good company.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 3, 2012 1:49 p.m.


    FYI - You forgot coed skiing

  • Chewbacca Magna, UT
    July 3, 2012 8:57 a.m.

    Dr Doom and Gloom (aka ducky)- After Utah collapses in the PAC12, and gets shipped off to the Big Sky Conference, maybe the Cougs will get a chance to try the PAC12? I know, you like independence. But you're in the minority there. Most coug fans are chomping at the bit to get into a big time conference. How long do you think it will take before utah gets kicked to the curb?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 3, 2012 8:23 a.m.

    I've posted these same medicore utah records inb posts before, albeit it withut the same laughable homneristic spin the writer of this article tried to give it. But even so it looked bad, very bad. Losing records in just about every singe sport, and almost all of the finishes at, or near, the bottom of the conference. It isn't that the ute's have to improve, it is that they simply have no chance in most of these sports.

    Honestly they may be a semi consistent 2nd place football team in the pac12 south, and I think it is safe to say womens gymnastics will be near the top of the conference. But other than those two sports what is utah good at? They weren't very good at anything else in the mwc so what makes them think they can be good at them in the pac12 which is actually noted for those "other" sports?

    Even if they upgrade their athletes to the point that they are better than what they had in the mwc that still doesn't mean they will be anywhere near as good as what the rest of the pac12 has.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    July 3, 2012 8:16 a.m.


    Your disengenuous quotations tell us all we need to know about your "logic." He didn't say "Utah had one of our better teams last year..."

    We know all about cougar logic. Lose to the good teams, beat up the cup cakes and then claim that you've improved to the point that you would now beat the good teams. Follow-up with incredible practice sessions. Now you're ready for a NC run. Repeat each year.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 3, 2012 7:41 a.m.


    "Utah had one of our better teams last year..." LOL
    "Utah actually did quite well..."

    "... the rigors of BCS play..." LOL

    One word sums this up 'quite well'...


    Mediocre in the WAC and MWC and they think they can beat winning PAC teams on the road when they can't beat losing teams at home.

    You've got to love that Ute logic.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 3, 2012 7:37 a.m.


    Jealous of what?

    Finishing 8th in football and being a doormat in just about every other sport?

    Call us when the Utes actually accomplish something in the PAC 12 worthy of jealousy. Finishing with a winning conference record in football or basketball would be a good place to start.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 2, 2012 6:34 p.m.

    samantha g,

    Utah had a successful season, nearly won the South division, and won their bowl game.

    And this in a semi-rebuilding year minus our starting quarterback. Not bad, actually.

    Y fans love to pretend that Utah had one of our better teams last year, and fared poorly in the conference. Thus, they erroneously deduce, Utah will never do well in the P12.

    What they fail to understand is that Utah actually did quite well in a down year... when they were also forced to adjust to the rigors of BCS play, and they did so without the most important player on the field.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 2, 2012 6:31 p.m.

    Wow, a lot of jealous Y fans on here. Hi guys and gals, thanks for your interest in our Utes!

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    July 2, 2012 4:13 p.m.

    Just as we thought....doormat to the west..U can't compete with the big boys and girls!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 2, 2012 11:32 a.m.

    Crafting a mediocre schedule to get into the Top 25 isn't a problem for the Utes - the PAC 12 does it for U. The Utes simply failed miserably to take advantage of their mediocre schedule.

    Six of Utah's nine conference opponents finished with LOSING records, yet the Utes only managed to beat four of the six, losing to two losing teams AT HOME, including to 3-10 Colorado, one of the worst teams in the country - rated #107 by Sagarin.

    In order to get "on the radar", you actually have to beat the mediocre teams on your schedule.

    The Utes barely slipped past #56 Georgia Tech in the Sun Bowl, while in the Armed Forces Bowl, BYU beat #35 Tulsa, a team ranked higher than any PAC 12 team on Utah's schedule, except for USC, which was on probation.

    btw, Utah hasn't had a road win over a PAC 10/12 team with a winning record since the 90's.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 2, 2012 11:27 a.m.


    "You STRUGGLED against Oregon State [who the Utes beat soundly],..."

    Long on hyperbole, short on facts.

    In the fourth quarter, BYU lead OSU by 17 points, 38-21, ON THE ROAD, until OSU scored a late TD with 23 seconds left. Final 38-28.
    Total yardage: BYU 499 yards, 365 yards.

    In the fourth quarter, Utah lead OSU by 16 points, 24-8, AT HOME, until Utah scored a late FG with 1:31 left. Final 27-8.
    Total yardage: Utah 287 yards, OSU 263 yards.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2012 9:56 a.m.

    EdGrady said "The Utes "Peter Principled" themselves. They promoted themselves to their level of incompetence."

    I know you're making a funny dig at the Utes, but that's exactly why I think the Cougars will stay independent. They can't afford to take on too big of a challenge. Their goal is exposure. As an independent, they can craft a schedule to end up 9-3 or 10-2. That keeps them on the radar. That gets them a chance to finish in the top 25 on somebody's poll.

    Is the competition great? Not really. But there is a smattering of "name" teams so that Cougar fans can remember things like "Oh that is the year we played Texas". The memory of a couple of "name" teams will help them forget the "no-name" teams that will grace LES in November for years to come.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    July 2, 2012 8:42 a.m.

    The Utes "Peter Principled" themselves. They promoted themselves to their level of incompetence.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 2, 2012 6:50 a.m.

    WAC man:

    "Playing Utah's schedule, BYU would have beaten all of the PAC 12 teams with losing records that Utah played..."

    Last season, you played 2 Pac-12 teams. You STRUGGLED against Oregon State [who the Utes beat soundly], and you got POUNDED by the Utes on your own Homefield. You're frantic and emotional boast is based entirely on unfounded fantasy, and sans legitimate support basis. My post is based entirely on what actually happened. Case closed. You lose.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2012 11:43 p.m.

    PAC man guesses "Playing Utah's schedule, BYU would have beaten all of the PAC 12 teams with losing records"
    This year is BYU's toughest schedule yet with {gasp} five BCS teams. You really think BYU would have had the energy to play 9 BCS schools? Of course, BYU saved up a lot of energy by quitting in the 3rd quarter against Utah. Maybe they could have saved up some more energy by quitting against USC too.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 1, 2012 3:42 p.m.

    What Utah is now sadly finding out, is that they can't claim superiority by simply riding the Coat-Tails of others.

    As we have said many times, there is Not One Program among Utah's 20 or so, which can realistically ever hope to win a Conference Championship, save perhaps Gymnastics, and UCLA has been smoking Utah for nearly 20 years there also.

    Utah's record of competitiveness was not impressive when compared to BYU's in the MWC or old WAC, where BYU won nearly half of all League Titles for nearly 40 years.

    BYU has produced more All-Americans by a 5-1 margin, than Utah.

    Utah just recently installed a track, having spent the last 30 years at West High Schools facility.

    Baseball is played Downtown.

    The fact remains, Utah is Dead Last in Athletic Budgets in the Pac, even Wazzu out shines Utah by 10 million per year.

    Utah's Stadium 2nd smallest.

    Utah ranks only 10th in Academics, 124th Nationally....BYU 71st..

    As was stated earlier, Utah should just put the Pac 12 Logo on their Helmets, because the Teams won't be Actual Champions anytime soon.

    July 1, 2012 3:20 p.m.

    "Yes, BYU would have fared alot better than the Utes in the PAC 12"

    PACman, I can play that game, too. No, they wouldn't have. Aren't hypotheticals fun?

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 1, 2012 2:59 p.m.

    Growing pains?

    My diagnosis is the Utes are suffering abdominal pains... from the fetal position after reading this list.

    "This list is not meant to be comprehensive and is only meant to provide a glimpse of the benefits of PAC-12 membership."...

    ... nor does it guarantee that extraordinary and lavish facilities will uplift mediocre programs.

    "If you struggled in the MWC...what makes you think you will win in the Conference of Champions??

    Could not have said it any better.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 1, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    As expected with one of the lowest budgets and the lack of PAC-12 talent Utah struggled against tougher competition. Lets wee how we do 5-10 years from Season I.

    @PAC Wannabe

    A team that struggled to beat WAC-lite teams at home would be lucky to go 3-6 in PAC-12 play. I don't expect you to understand this statement until your WAC-lite schedule starts improving.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 1, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    This isn't as much about Utah being terrible as it is the Pac 12 being exceptional.

    @PAC man ...
    "BYU would have fared alot better than the Utes in the PAC 12, overall, but especially in basketball and football." Football? You're DELUSIONAL. Get real.


    I think your comment about BYU would have "fared the same if not worse" was probably directed at football ... but if you're thinking Olympic sports, I'd disagree.

    As a Ute fan I can readily admit BYU has several programs that have been successful for years.

    BYU track programs, men's volleyball (Utah doesn't have of course), are both consistently great. BYU's baseball team and golf team are usually better while Womens volleyball, softball, basketball and soccer are pretty much equal. The tennis and swim teams are also about equal. The only sport Utah clearly dominates is gymnastics and Utah has always had an excellent Ski team, which I don't believe BYU even has.

    Bottom line, BYU and Utah are pretty equal but BYU has a few more sports that consistently perform at higher levels.

    However, I'm quite certain we'll now start to see this change.

  • Teaching Moment Ogden, UT
    July 1, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    Utah > Pitt, Georgia Tech and BYU

    There is no doubt the PAC-12 is well in front of the Big East, ACC and Indy.

    Can't wait to enjoy the games again this season. High level competition in September, October and November is absolutely FUN. Do you have your seats?

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    July 1, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    This just shows the huge gap between small ball of the WAC, MWC, WCC conferences and the big boys. Our middle to lower placed teams would all be in the top half and champions in the lower leagues. Utah loves the challenge and is committed to growing all the programs.

    PAC man. As a Utah hater, you love that Utah iis having growing pains. As a huge Utah homer, I love that fact that we have to get better in all sports. It will make victory that much sweeter. I know that you wish your team was in a great conference. They prefer to play down in stead of up. Makes some feel better I suppose.

    Go Utes!

    July 1, 2012 6:15 a.m.

    @PACman - how does any football team finish 8th in a 6 team division? The DN won't post comments that are insulting to individual but they will allow anyone to make up statistics in their posts.

    Utah has the lowest athletic budget of any PAC 12 school and both the school and the fans knew it would take time to compete in an elite conference. So what. It is great to be in a highly competitive conference, fans of the other in state schools only wish that was the case for their teams.

  • stonewall Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 1, 2012 1:06 a.m.

    Nothing to feel disappointed about for Utah. I'm a BYU fan, and no, Utah didn't blow anyone away. Fact is they showed they were beneath the typical Pac-12 level. But the reality is that so are Washington State and Oregon State, and yet they've been in the conference for decades. Utah will be fine. They were always going to get creamed in the Olympic sports. That's the strength of this conference. That's why it is the "conference of champions." The Pac-12 is competitive in football and basketball with some power programs, but more often than not they're not the elite conference in those sports. The SEC and Big-10 are traditionally more powerful in football and the ACC, Big 12, and Big East are traditionally better basketball conferences. But no conference touches the Pac-12 in Olympic sports.

    The reality is that perception will always be driven by football and men's basketball. Utah did respectably in football and will be better this year. Basketball... was a joke. Let's hope that improves. But it wasn't a start to be embarrassed about and it should only get better

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    July 1, 2012 12:14 a.m.


    Yes, BYU would have fared alot better than the Utes in the PAC 12, overall, but especially in basketball and football. Bronco doesn't lose to bad teams - Kyle loses to them all the time.

    Playing Utah's schedule, BYU would have beaten all of the PAC 12 teams with losing records that Utah played - Colorado, Washington, or ASU at home, and Arizona, OSU, and WSU on the road.

    Even with losses to USC, California and possibly UCLA, BYU would have finished 7-2 or 6-3 in the conference, good enough to win the PAC 12 South. Utah would have been an OOC loss. After winning the PAC 12 South, BYU would have lost in PAC 12 championship game and won their bowl game to finish 11-3 or 10-4, ranked about 25th in both polls, just about where BYU finished with their "WAC" schedule.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    June 30, 2012 11:58 p.m.

    It's been a good transition year for Utah in the Pac-12. We now know where the Utes stand in their new conference. Now Utah can build upon the foundation they have set in their first year in the "Conference of Champions". Obviously football and gymnastics are the strengths and will be competing for conference championships before the rest of the sports catch up. Basketball is a mess! But Utah does have a strong basketball history. They'll be back! The Pac-12 prides itself on the Olympic sports and Utah has a long ways to go to compete in those sports. Let's go to work and make year 2 in the Pac-12 better than year 1. Go Utes!!!

  • slcftball Salt Lake City, UT
    June 30, 2012 11:40 p.m.

    Man, the Utes got pounded last year. Most teams had losing records. I hope it can change this year.

    And no BYU, you would have fared the same if not worse IMO. BAsketball better but football far worse (54-10).

    Now people understand why a 12-0 Idaho shouldn't be in a BCS game ahead of a 10-2 USC.....

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 30, 2012 10:52 p.m.

    This article lists he athletic team records but the first year in the PAc-12 has meant so much more to the University of Utah, Salt Lake City, and the State of Utah.

    Our First year as a member of the PAC-12

    Academically: The James L. Sorenson Molecular Biotechnology Building was dedicated (cost $130 million); A school of Denistry was approved to begin next year (A donation of $30 million was given if the school was started); and the S.J. Quinney School of Law building will be replaced with a 50% larger building (cost over $60 million).

    Athletic improvements:
    New construction began on the athletic complex (cost $30 million; new outdoor tennis courts and complex (cost $2 million) and a new soccer field (cost $2 million - I believe).

    This list is not meant to be comprehensive and is only meant to provide a glimpse of the benefits of PAC-12 membership. The University of Utah is proud to be a member of the PAC-12 and commit ourselves to earning the conference member's pride is us as well.

    Go Utes!

  • Old ball coach Sandy, UT
    June 30, 2012 10:38 p.m.

    2nd place by the Red Rocks!! The best Utah finished!! If you struggled in the MWC...what makes you think you will win in the Conference of Champions?? Ha HA HA!

    Go Trojans!!