Boy Scout standards are lapsing with controversial choice

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  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    June 15, 2012 2:16 p.m.

    Nice try Ranch to define it the way that includes the perversion of those who engage in the behavior of homosexuality. Morally wrong but nice try.

    There is no room in the Boy Scouts for anyone who engages in the behavior of homosexuality. Glad the board made the correct decision.

  • L White Springville, UT
    June 13, 2012 5:11 p.m.

    Oh you men make me laugh. How about if we just turn the question around. What would the public think if men were allowed to take girl scouts on campouts? Would anybody NOT be alarmed? Would anybody complain about "discrimination"? Would anybody tell the mothers of those girls to chill out and to be reasonable?

    Letting men who have normal heterosexual feelings go on overnight campouts with girls would just not be acceptable. Nobody would argue that point.

    So, why are we arguing about letting men who like to have sex with other men take young men on overnight campouts? If you can't figure it out, just ask a mother; she will set you straight in a hurry.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    June 13, 2012 3:02 p.m.

    Who is more of a threat? A openly gay man who is most likely not hiding anything? Or a predator, who hides as someone else, and then abuses your kids?
    I think this is a case of worrying about the wrong things.
    All gay men are not predatory, just like all hetro men are not abusing little girls.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    June 13, 2012 1:55 p.m.


    Why are tou so combative today. Is that the best way to "win" your argument?

    Let's answer the question of what "morally straight" means before getting combative.

    Can someone who abuses his body be morally straight?

    Can someone who entices someone else to abuse his body be morally straight?

    Can someone tell boys that having sex with men or other boys is perfectly acceptable be morally straight?

    Can someone who promotes same-sex "marriage" be morally straight?

    Instead of defending your chosen lifestyle, why not admit that your lifestyle choices limit your interaction with impressionable boys?

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 13, 2012 1:42 p.m.

    Re: Ranch Here, UT

    The parents of the boy scouts I know want their impressionable young men mentored by adult males who do not attracted to the same sex. When teaching the Boy Scout Oath want leaders who set an example they can follow.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    June 13, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    @Mike Richards;

    Thank you ONCE AGAIN for comparing us homosexual to "sexual predators". You're so kind and knowledgable about the subject. Like you forget that the majority of sexual predators are heterosexual men.

    You ask who a young man should look up to?

    A Business man? Check.
    An honest man? Check.
    A finacially stable man? Check.
    A good neighbor? Check.
    A charitable man? Check.

    Oh, I forgot. We gay's can't be any of that. Sorry, buddy, but I meet all those criteria - AND I would be married to the love of my life, but you "religious", "god fearing" folks in this great state have said that I can't.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    June 13, 2012 1:09 p.m.


    "Morally straight" doesn't mean Heterosexual. It means MORAL. Being a homosexual or non-Christian doesn't make one amoral or immoral. We too can be "morally straight". We to live "moral" lives.

    You need a lesson in what morality actually is.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    June 13, 2012 11:42 a.m.

    Obviously this is about gay scouts and leaders. The LDS position is that people with those inclinations are no different from anyone else as long as they behave morally. So why should the scouts be excluding people with those inclinations? Who among us doesn't have problematic tendencies?

    June 13, 2012 10:59 a.m.

    "To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight."

    I guess I missed something.

    Are the Boy Scouts going to exclude couch potatoes, people who brag that they "haven't read a book since high school" and those who cheat on their taxes from becoming leaders? That actually sounds like positive change to me.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 13, 2012 6:06 a.m.

    Re: Esquire Springville, UT
    "Whose moral standards should they apply, yours?"

    One man's definition of promiscuity is another man's definition of acceptable moral standards.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 13, 2012 6:04 a.m.

    @ Curmudgeon,

    What kind of person do you want your boys to look up to? What morals are sacred to you? What kind of jokes do you want your boys to hear? What kind of activities do you want your boys to participate in?

    For that matter, what is repentance to you. Does it include confessing? Does it include forsaking? Does it include counciling? Does it include restitution? Who certifies that the behavior has stopped?

    I certainly believe in repentence, but not repeated repentence for the same type of activity.

    One of my sons left a suicide note that "damned" a scout leader for something that had happened more than a decade before. How much was that scout leader responsible for his suicide? We'll never know. Action have consequences.

  • travelrus murray, UT
    June 12, 2012 10:10 p.m.

    It is a very sad thing that the BSA has closed their doors to many young men and their families. I can't support an organization that won't treat everyone with respect.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2012 7:04 p.m.


    You are consistent if nothing else. So it follows that vetting a prospective Boy Scout leader would require an inquiry into whether he has ever had sex outside of marriage, right? That would, of course, eliminate a lot of men from consideration, and might result in a severe shortage of leaders. But the bar would still be held high.

    What if the errant male had repented? Would you still be the first one to throw a stone? Is there room in your world for redemption and forgiveness? Is that just possibly a component of being "morally straight"?

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    June 12, 2012 6:13 p.m.

    Esquire asked, "Whose moral standards should they apply, yours?"

    No. I'm neither God nor hundreds of generations before ours who overwhelmingly found same-sex relations to be destructive and taboo. But I do try to learn from them. You can find out for yourself. Perhaps try reading as many modern objective studies you can find about the problems that accompany such behavior.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 12, 2012 5:44 p.m.

    @ Curmudgeon,

    If you've read my posts over the years, you will know that I stand 100% behind total sexual abstinence outside of marriage. No sex before marriage. No extra-marital sex within marriage. Because marriage has been defined as a union between a man and a woman, that automatically means no same-sex sex.

    That is part of being "morally straight". Sex is not the only component of being "morally straight"; but, as I see it, no person can engage in same-sex sex, extra-marital sex, or premarital sex and claim to be "morally straight".

    Boys accept as normal the lives of their leaders. No boy should ever be exposed to a double standard by any leader. If the leader doesn't believe in the program enough to live by the rules that are binding on the boys, that person should not be allowed to be a leader.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    June 12, 2012 3:58 p.m.

    It isn’t a coincidence that the scout oath contains the words, “morally straight” since its inception.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2012 3:43 p.m.

    Mike Richards:

    While I agree that the BSA should be able to set its own standards for its leaders, and that homosexual sex is wrong, isn't it a little over the top to label all homosexuals as predators? That smacks of paranoia and stereotyping.

    For consistency, I hope you would apply the same strict standard to heterosexual men who engage in extra-marital sex, which I suspect is also not "morally straight" in your eyes. Boys do not need that kind of example either.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 12, 2012 3:07 p.m.

    Re: Esquire Springville, UT
    "Whose moral standards should they apply, yours?"

    Ask any eagle scout and he will explain the Scout Oath and exactly what it means to be "morally straight".

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 12, 2012 2:23 p.m.

    Are morals debatable? Have we been blinded by the gay agenda to the point that we don't know the meaning of "morally straight"?

    Our children need to be protected from predators who would use them and abuse them. Letting a predator serve as a leader of young boys, boys who respect leaders, would destroy those boys so that that "leader" could find self-gratification in abusing those whom he was charged to protect.

    Keep the predators far from our impressionable youth.

    Keep the predators far from those who would submit to the appetites and passions of those "leaders".

    Keep the predators from destroying the lives of those whom they were charged to teach and lead.

    No person who is known to engage in same-sex sex is qualified to lead boys. Boys do not need that kind of example. Boys, and their parents, should know that their leaders are "morally straight".

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    June 12, 2012 10:57 a.m.

    Shouldn't the objective be creating better citizens? If we are concerned with only a portion of young people, then we are not utilizing all of the available resource going forward. Is this any way to prepare for the future?

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    June 12, 2012 8:59 a.m.

    letters a little late.
    BSA already said they are not making any changes in relation to homosexuals serving as scout masters.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    June 12, 2012 7:05 a.m.

    Whose moral standards should they apply, yours? And it also leads to the same argument that scouting used to resist change: you aren't forced to join this private organization.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    June 12, 2012 6:12 a.m.

    Let's suspend judgment until their consideration is complete. I, too, expect standards of morality to be upheld. Hopefully their consideration process will allow them to refine their stance on this contentious issue.

    It should be that religious morality shows love for all people and allows them latitude of choice, but cannot condone behavior that is destructive to both families and society.

    Support your annual Friends of Scouting drive.