@homebrew,You do get your One_person One_vote duhh... same as
whether there's a caucus leading up to it or not. You get your individual
vote twice (in the primary election and again in the general election).You get the same one person one vote opportunities whether you have a caucus
or not (primary election and general election). The only difference is... your
neighborhood gets a voice in who will be on that ballot in the caucus scenario.
Without caucuses party officials have to narrow the field for you.In
places were they don't have a caucus... who picks the names that end up on
that ballot? Hint... it's not the people. It's the party
elites.I don't know any place that has a general election to
decide who will even be on the party primary ballot (as you propose). Not
Democrats. Not anywhere (that I know of)The caucus system
isn't perfect but it's better than leaving it up to a few party
Sal,And WHO decides who will be on the pre-primary ballot you want to
replace the caucuses with???The purpose of the caucus is to decide
who will meet in the party's primary election!If the candidate
for an office is running unopposed... no primary is needed. But if more than
one candidate wants to run for that office THERE WILL BE A PRIMARY... and you
WILL GET TO VOTE!I don't know where these false presumptions
come from. And from a person who attended his caucus to be so ill informed...
just amazes me.The purpose of the caucus is to assign delegates who
will help narrow the field (if there is more than one person who wants that
office) at the state or the county convention. The PRIMARY election comes
LATER (if needed).So many people posting here don't even know
what pre-convention caucuses are for or how they work. It's not the
PRIMARY election... that comes LATER. This is just to pick who will MEET in the
The caucus system is a JOKE!! Surpise!! One person One Vote. Thats why we need
to scrap the system and have a primary election. If this was in place, Bob
Bennett would still be a senator, and Mike Lee would still be in the circus.
Marlon,You obviously don't understand the system you have. You
still get to vote (EVERY CITIZEN GETS TO VOTE)... but don't try to confuse
party caucuses with the general election. They're not the same thing.
They aren't intended to be the same thing.You will get your
vote... in the primary and the general elections. Caucuses are NOT
ELECTIONS.If the candidate YOU wanted doesn't get nominated by
your party (Democrat or Republican)... They can still run, and you can still
vote for them. They can run a campaign on their own, or you can just write
them in.But I doubt a candidate that can't even get enough
grassp-rotes support to get even enough delegates for the convention to even
force a party-primary (he only has to be close to get a primary runoff)....
will suddenly get enough support/votes to win the election when everybody gets
@LDS Lib: once again you show just how wrong you are in your positions regarding
the truth. Does the truth not matter to you?Please back up your
claim that Bush was selected and not elected. Thank you.Also, could
you please explain logically and rationally how anyone not affiliated with an
organization should have a vote in who runs that organization? Again, thank you
for logically and rationally answering those questions.
And to all the paranoid Republicans scared that “others” might
select their candidates….Your argument is moot.In a
primary election, a person MUST declare party affiliation – and as then
given ONLY that parties ballot.A Democrat can no more elect a Republican
in a primary election, than they can nominate one at the Republican Party
convention.Boogieman under the bed rubbish.
Feeling a little frustrated with the system?Feeling disenfranchised by it
all?Feel like the voice of the people is shushed, and only the voice of a
few gets the say so?Just a reminder – this
“Representative” form of Government “Selected not
Elected” GW Bush.
I hope that Bob Bennett and Kirk Jowers continue their efforts to get rid of the
caucus. I've attended three now and resent the waste of my time. Give me
a Primary where I can walk in, vote, and be out of there in 10 mintues. Two
hours into our caucus and we still hadn't elected any county delegates. I
left. Too much time wasted counting votes.
Marlon, I totally respect what you are saying. Sadly, you are not one of the
chosen few, the proud, or the elite whose voice is worthy of the Republican
Party. Only the noblest people get to be delegates. Your vote does not matter
in Utah if you are not part of the vocal minority who makes sure that others who
disagree get shouted down at the caucus. PS- I completely agree
with you, Mr. Bates. The caucus system needs to go.
Each Party has the priviledge of making rules about how they will put the names
of candidates on the ballot. It is totally absurd for Democrats to tell
Republicans how to choose candidates or for Republicans to tell Democrats how to
choose candidates.The caucus system of the Republicans is not an
issue in which the Democrats have voice and the caucus system of the Democrats
is not an issue in which the Republicans have voice.Republicans do
not need the appoval of any Democrat before they make rules by which they will
choose Republican candidates. If Democrats what to participate in the Republican
process, they need to abandon their Democrat party platform and become
Republicans by registering as Republicans. If they truly believe in the
Republican values, they are welcome to change. If they think that they can
temporarily change their party affiliation to influence the outcome of the
selection process, they represent political corruption.Each Party
makes rules by which members of that party choose candidates. Democrats do not
have the right to tell Republicans how to make that choice and Republicans do
not have the right to tell Democrats how to make that choice.
RedShirt, as of this writing the Democrats of Utah do not require party
membership to participate in a caucus. It is only the Republicans that are
fearful of an overthrow from the 10% of Utahns that are more practical in
viewpoints. Maybe it's you that doesn't understand the caucus system?
To "owlmaster2" I don't think you understand the caucus system.
Each party chooses their own candidates. If you want to vote for a democrat
candidate in the caucuses, then register as a democrat. If you don't like
any of the parties out there, you can form your own party.Think of
it this way, you wouldn't want a rival club voting for your club's
president would you? Do Unions allow non-union members to vote for their
representatives? Why should a non-Republican vote in the Republican caucuses?
Yes ("Curmudgeon") who are these vote counters? I saw enough in the
Maine election to know I cannot trust the GOP to count votes in a timely manner
and even to include all precincts in the final tally.Votes imho
should be counted in plain sight with the whole audience watching. Each ballot
should be perused one at a time, immediately read aloud, and then passed to
another person of another opinion for confirmation. Perhaps those counting the
votes should be randomly selected or chosen deliberately for differing and
dissenting opinions. There should be maybe ten of them, maybe none from the
local party organization. People who find counting mentally challenging should
What is the purpose of the caucusus? It is to provide a way for each PARTY to
select candidates for their PARTY. Should a Democrat be allowed to
select a candidate to run as a Republican? Why? What principle would allow
someone of the opposite party to select candidates for MY party? Should I, as a
registered Republican, have the right to tell the Democrat Party which
candidates it should run against the Republicans? What would give me that
right? Would I have to become a Democrat? Would I have to embrace the Democrat
platform? Would I have to abandon my principles as a Republican in order to
help the Democrats promote their principles to select which candidates they
wanted to represent their PARTY?Democrats are welcome to attend the
Republican caucus; but, unless they register as Republicans, they cannot speak
nor can they vote. I, as a Republican, might attend a Democrat
caucus; but, out of decency, I would not try to tell them which candidates to
put to represent THEIR party.
@ Marlon Bates, I totally agree with you! Our system is antiquated. I've always wondered why an Independent or Democrat is denied the right
to vote in a primary of Republican candidates. Why are my rights suppressed by
Republicans? Independents and Republicans can vote for Democrat candidates in a
Democrat primary. What are Republicans afraid of??? I'm a Veteran
and I can't vote...... why is that????
How does Mr Richards get to use capitals and anyone else that tries it gets
bumped? Where in the "constitution" does it say that his OPINION is more
valuable to society than the letter writer? Where in the Constitution does it
say we need to elect representatives to represent us to elect other
representatives to represent us to elect other representatives to represent us?
Since the State is a microcosm of the United States with all the shenanigans we
should maximize the franchised's voices. Oops I disagreed so now I wait for
the dress down.
To "Marlon Bates" how is what you did at the caucus meeting any
different than what you do when you elect your local representative? Your job
at the caucus meeting wasn't to have a primary election, it was to select
people who would represent your area.If you wanted vote for the
candidate that you liked, you should have tried harder to convince people that
you would represent them.
Amen, Brother. At my caucus, the delegate was selected on the sole criterion of
whether he/she supported Orrin Hatch for the Senate. No candidates for other
offices were even mentioned, nor were any issues discussed, so we had no idea
how the candidates would vote on other matters. The initial vote was a tie, and
instead of flipping a coin, a revote was taken, and the result was a win for
Hatch (not surprising, since the vote counters--who selected them,
anyway?--were, respectively, a vocal Hatch supporter and the son of the
candidate who supported Hatch). I thought the whole thing was a sham, because
practically half of the caucus voters were effectively denied a voice at the
What a bunch of nonsense!The letter writer KNEW how the process
works. He KNEW that he would be voting for delegates who would question the
candidates throughly before the nominating convention. He KNEW that he lives in
a democratic republic where we elect representatives who REPRESENT us. Yet,
even with that knowledge, he wanted to throw the system out.Why not
have 300,000,000 members of Congress? Why not require each citizen to sign off
each piece of legislation? Why not just throw everything that has worked in
America out the window?How about being a decent citizen and doing
your duty to elect good and reliable delegates? How about spending some time
helping those who were elected find the BEST candidate to represent you in each
of the elected office - or were you just another Hatch shill who knew that
giving the delegates a few weeks to throughly question the candidates would
leave Hatch out of the running?