Pope denounces gay marriage lobby to US bishops

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  • Stay the Course Salt Lake City, utah
    March 11, 2012 11:12 p.m.

    no need for all of the capital letters you don't like it when someone else expresses an opinion that contradicts your I see

  • tcsanders1 Logan, UT
    March 10, 2012 9:06 p.m.


    Religious doctrines only apply to and are followed by the subscribers to that particular religion. However, the effects of those religious doctrines inevitably enter the public square. They affect you, me, and everyone else whether you like it or not.
    But nobody -- not even the members of the religion in question -- are required to "do" anything, even if their religion says differently.

    It seems that you want all religious voices silenced unless they are within the confines of churches, synagogues, and temples. To quote then-Senator Obama, you are "wrong [to] . . . ask believers to leave . . . religion at the door before entering the public square." To require this would be a "practical absurdity." (Barack Obama, Call to Renewal Keynote Address, June 6, 2006).

    Religions have as much right to voice opinions and oppose same-sex marriage as you do to support it. If I followed your reasoning through to completion, I could say that what homosexuals choose to do within the confines of their own homes is their business and irrelevant to society as a whole. Obviously, you would disagree with that, and I do not believe that either.

    I've enjoyed the back-and-forth. Have a great weekend!

  • Ranch Here, UT
    March 10, 2012 4:41 p.m.


    I "respectfully disagree".

    When religions teach that "marriage is between one man and one woman" - it APPLIES ONLY TO THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO FOLLOW SAID RELIGIONS.

    Nobody else, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY ELSE is obligated, in any way, to follow those beliefs.

    "Religions should not allow same-sex marriage supporters to run roughshod over their doctrines, any more than same-sex marriage supporters should allow religions to trample over their ideas."

    --- Again, said "doctrines" apply ONLY to said religions; not society at large.

    The First Amendment guarantees that even IF same sex marriage supporters tried to force your religions to perform their marriages, fail. Besides, there ARE religious organizations that ARE willing to perform same sex marriages. What about their religious rights? Don't they count?

  • tcsanders1 Logan, UT
    March 10, 2012 2:31 p.m.


    Again, I respectfully disagree. When religions' doctrines teach that marriage is only between one man and one woman, that teaching does collide with the counter-argument posited by supporters of same-sex marriage. The "collision" is not necessarily through conduct; instead, it is a clash of ideas, standards, and values. And that debate is healthy. Religions should not allow same-sex marriage supporters to run roughshod over their doctrines, any more than same-sex marriage supporters should allow religions to trample over their ideas.

    This follows to my next reaffirmation that religions do have relevance outside their walls precisely because religions influence how people think, speak, and act when not confined within those walls. Of necessity, this affects society as a while, e.g., how laws are obeyed, charities, humanitarian aid, etc.

    Finally, I am exceedingly weary of your argument that same-sex marriage supporters are not and will not seek to have religions enforce those marriages. Instead, the trend seems to be for same-sex marriage proponents to seek more and more acceptance (not tolerance) of their position. If same-sex marriage is recognized, the door to a host of First Amendment religious challenges is opened.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    March 10, 2012 11:29 a.m.


    Same sex marriage ONLY collides with the "essence and cores of most of America's religions" if we were to try to FORCE them to have same sex marriages or conduct same sex marriages aga their will. We are NOT doing that.

    The freedom and rights of religions is in no way affected by Civil Society allowing same sex marriages. Religions have no relevance outside their church walls. Religions have no business telling government, or Civil Society what to do. Otherwise they should lose their Tax-exempt status.

  • tcsanders1 Logan, UT
    March 10, 2012 6:06 a.m.

    I disagree RanchHand. Religious opinions have enormous effect on the conduct and behavior of many of America's citizens. Thus, contrary to your declaration, religious opinion is relevant in our society. Furthermore, your declaration that religious opinion is irrelevant would also violate Free Speech guarantees contained in the Constitution.

    I agree with you that I should (and do) live my religion without imposing it on others against their will. That would be wrong of me to do. But that reasoning is a two-way street. By its very nature, same-sex marriage collides with the essence and cores of most of America's religions. And religions have the constitutional right (and responsibility) to announce their positions to provide guidance for their members. Such announcements hardly force or compel a supporter of same-sex marriage to do anything. It merely criticizes or opposes their position, which is healthy for society; indeed, relevant for society.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    March 9, 2012 12:09 p.m.

    I find disingenuous that The Pope be extolling the virtues of marriage. If marriage, in his view, is so desirable why Catholic Priest are not allowed to preach by example?

    If marriage and faithfulness are so desirable, why the Catholic hierarchy and other religious leaders, are so against everybody having access to marry the person they love?

    I don't understand how the Catholic Church may promote celibacy for homosexuals or non-married heterosexuals, when so many of their clerics who are devoted to God are not able to live by those standards. However, they expect mere worldly humans to accomplish what they cannot.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    March 9, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    The Vatican's opinion, like that of every other religion, has NO RELEVANCE in our Civil Society.

    If you don't like Same sex marriages, don't have one. Live your religion yourselves and stop trying to make others who don't believe as you do live your religious beliefs.

    Religious organizations that want to play in politics deserve to lose their tax-exempt status.