LDS Church responds to 'ironic' proxy baptism charges

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  • Nachtmerrie_in_Brugge Mesa, AZ
    March 12, 2012 8:10 p.m.

    The real irony here is that by protesting proxy baptism for deceased Jews, members of the Jewish community are unwittingly acknowledging the validity of the ordinance. If the whole Joseph-Smith-gold-plates-restoration thing is a hoax or a delusion, then what's the harm? LDS temple ordinances should be meaningless to anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that Joseph Smith is one of his prophets.

    Also ironic is thatÂat least from an LDS perspectiveÂrather than letting Anne Frank accept or reject the ordinance of baptism for herself, these protesters would presume to reject it on her behalf.

  • EnglishAlan Rugeley, Staffs
    March 12, 2012 7:35 a.m.

    There are those that abuse the system though. I shared my gedcom file with a lady in Canada, who knew that I am LDS. She looked through the file, and submitted the names of my late brother and his late wife. When I asked her why she had done that her reply was, "The work needed doing, and so I did it. You should have done it quicker." I had to explain that my brother was non-LDS, and had given ME permission to have the work done, but wanted specifically one of my sons and one of my daughters to act as proxy for him and his wife. We were waiting until my daughter was Endowed and married before doing the work. When that time came, we couldn't fulfil my brother's wishes. The lady also sealed my wife's grandparents, who had divorced in very acrimonious circumstances. The Church took appropriate steps to prevent her abusing the system further. SHE broke the rules, and not the Church.

    The above reasons are why the Church imposes rules, and why they occasionally have to take action to prevent such liberties. It stops the abusers, full-stop, not just Miss Radke.

  • Mayfair City, Ut
    March 10, 2012 6:10 a.m.

    To Ms. Radkey--perhaps you are familiar with the phrase:

    Give a man (or in your case, a woman) enough rope......

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 9, 2012 11:53 p.m.

    The policy is clearly set up to prevent anyone from accessing and submitting these names. If all people who try to submit these names are kicked off the program, than who could possibly be submitting these names? Radkey's claims that this is a coverup are ludicrous. All the more so since she lacks an account so there is no way for the Church to target her.

  • BYR Woods Cross, UT
    March 9, 2012 11:37 p.m.

    Kishkumen, no, it is not completely impossible to prevent certain names from being baptized or submitted. All one has to do is to slightly change the parameters, such as the birth year by a single year. The name is then submitted by the computer program, which is tricked. Only if someone happens to check each and every name, would it be caught and even then you have humor error. If you want the games to stop, then all the players need to stop as well so there is no game being played.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    March 9, 2012 1:09 p.m.

    IF Radke is indeed using members account to do this research then she is dishonest and cheating and should not be considered a Christian. This is not the behavior of a Christian. It is the antics of a hypocrite, whose soul desire is to embarrass her former Church, nothing more, nothing less.

    She is typical of many former LDS who seem hell bent to try and destroy anything the Church does. They have completely lost the Spirit and now are bent on destruction. Instead of showing others how Christ-like they are through their actions, deeds and words they stoop to the lowest common denominator and use trickery and deceit to accomplish their purpose. Each of us will reap our rewards in Heaven or Hell and the same with Radke.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    If accessing the system was through lying- then they are committing a wrong themselves. If one desires to know if names remain accessible, they should inquire of the church.

    Consider this analogy.

    A = Church
    B = Critics
    C = Those who lied to abuse the system.

    Person C plants names in persons A's home, against A's policy.
    Person A says "I don't have those names in my house anymore, per person B's request"
    Person B breaks into the home to search the home, rather than ask permission to search.

    Person A was without guilt the entire time and acted admirably to prevent abuse from Person C. Person B is now guilty of the same lying and deception that C committed in the first place. You can't justify a lie in order to prevent another person from lying. God doesn't justify lies for us, Jews, Catholics, or anyone. That's a truth we all have clear understanding and record of.

    The LDS Church answers legitimate and honest requests, not liars who don't believe anyone is honest. Many think anarchy, breaking law, breaking rules, etc. is justified. I certainly don't. But one can't accept 'free society' and that doctrine of deceit simultaneously.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    March 9, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    This almost sounds as if a woman was stalked by Godzilla and the wild turkey in Utah freaks-out. This has only been going on for 10 years now, I guess they took the hint. Mormon leaders have put up a virtual firewall in their massive genealogical database to block out anyone who attempts to access the names of hundreds of thousands of Holocaust victims the church has agreed not to posthumously baptize. The move comes amid criticism that the Salt Lake City-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints hasn't done enough to live up to commitments to stop its members worldwide from performing the baptism ritual on Holocaust victims and other notable Jews, how can they when it's done at home not at the Church. The new system will immediately block church members' access should they try to seek out names of Holocaust victims or other notable figures that have been flagged as not suitable for proxy baptisms. The church said the move is aimed at ending the practice. Did Jesus Christ say this is ok to do in HIS Church?. It is "HE" that makes these rules.

    MY Views.

  • kishkumen American Fork, UT
    March 9, 2012 11:46 a.m.

    Actually, nobody asked the church to limit access to people being able to view their records. They were asked to stop baptizing certain individuals. It is completely possible to prevent certain names from being baptized while still allowing people to see who has received the LDS ordninances. I encourage the LDS church to stop playing games in their press releases.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    March 9, 2012 11:39 a.m.

    The mormon church lost big time on this issue. It will be hard to recover.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    I would think there'd be a way to keep records open and searchable and just label the files/names they're currently blocking with some designation that says they're off-limits to submission/baptisms.

  • Alterego Harrisville, UT
    March 9, 2012 11:04 a.m.

    Radkey will simply find another non-monitored culture, social class or religon to "protect" albeit, she'll still be doing it by stealing another's identity.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    March 9, 2012 10:54 a.m.

    if someone complains/criticizes about proxy baptisms why do you care?

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    March 9, 2012 10:05 a.m.

    Actually, Northbound, the only reason to block looking up Holocaust names is to...keep people from looking up Holocaust names. It's not a conspiracy to shut down Helen Radkey - she'll be naturally shut down when no one can break the rules anymore and look up unrelated Holocaust Jews. The Church isn't trying to hide some sinister Church policy to secretly allow this to go on. Occam's Razor, Northbound.

    The real issue has been Helen Radkey abusing the fact that in a Church where any member can freely submit a name for temple work, there will always be someone willing to break the ChurchÂs longstanding rules against submitting names that arenÂt their relatives. Supposedly, Ms. RadkeyÂs motives were to Âprotect the beliefs of JewsÂ. But now that the Church finally has worked out a system to centrally enforce its longstanding rules that 99.999% of its members always followed anyway, now there wonÂt BE anybody breaking the rules at all. Ms. Radkey should be overjoyed  all those baptisms she didnÂt like are being shut down for good! But somehow no, she's still not happy. Hmm...

  • KC Mormon Edgerton, KS
    March 9, 2012 9:48 a.m.

    You said "She used friends' accesses to get in. Basically, isn't that identity theft? Talk about hypocrisy." Its even worse than that. This comes from an article in the Washington Post on her
    "In 2006 and 2009, the library disciplined her for sneaking onto computers used by Mormons who had not logged off their terminals and then spending hours using their accounts to dig through the private church records"

  • SqueakyWheel Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2012 9:29 a.m.

    This whole thing appears suspicious on Radkey's part. She is gettin into the system using someone elses account so that she can blow the whistle on the LDS Church. If she can get in on someone elses account, can't she also submit names on that account to make the LDS Church look bad? So now that she can't get in she is upset, hmmm, sounds very suspicious of her.

  • Collin Card Provo, Utah
    March 9, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    Perhaps she feels targeted because the Church is trying to fix and avoid the problem (members submitting names of Holocaust victims, Catholic Saints and famous people who are not family) that she spends her time trying to blow the whistle on. In doing so, they are messing with her goals.

    I read in the Trib that she was researching Mitt Romney's family history when she discovered it. Is HE a family member of hers? Hmmmm....

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    March 9, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    Another article about this stated that Radkey was accessing the site using other people's names and passwords. And SHE is claiming the LDS Church is targeting HER by blocking her access to names that shouldn't be accessed anyway? Now that IS ironic!

  • washcomom Beaverton, OR
    March 9, 2012 9:17 a.m.

    "If she, or anyone else, is misusing a Church member's identity to search for Holocaust names, then the system is set up to block those kinds of activities,"

    That's EXACTLY what she did and was reported in the SLTribune. She used friends' accesses to get in. Basically, isn't that identity theft? Talk about hypocrisy.

  • Chachi Charlottesville, VA
    March 9, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    Poetic justice--exactly right, windsor.

    Maybe Radkey is complaining because her goal all along wasn't to stop baptisms for the dead on behalf of Holocaust victims; it was to make the LDS Church look bad.

  • BYR Woods Cross, UT
    March 9, 2012 8:35 a.m.

    @northboundax: the problem remains however, that IF the whistleblower is the abuser, how does one prevent continued abuse? The Church is damned either way. At least with the new policy, those who abuse in an effort to defame the Church, will have a greater task to meet their goals.

  • NorthboundZax Makanda, IL
    March 9, 2012 8:05 a.m.

    Bro. Purdy is being a little disingenuous about the situation. Yes, the safeguards against submission are exactly what the church was asked to do, but the blocking of access to lookup of certain names is a very different thing. There is no reason to do that except to keep busy-bodies/whistle-blowers (whichever way one wants to view it) from having access to information about what has been done.

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2012 7:56 a.m.

    Let Radkey have her say. And ignore her. It is not worth the point-counter-point. Besides, there is no answer the church can ever give that will ever satisfy her.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    March 9, 2012 7:51 a.m.

    For any group to take so much offense at an effort that means them no harm and in reality does no harm, is taking offense needlessly. Such people ought to focus on real enemies or on getting on with their life.

    When Jews are targeted I am with them. But this is crying wolf when their is no wolf. Obviously there are those who are set in disagreement. But such people would do well to re-examine their motives and this entire situation.

  • DaleC Magna, UT
    March 9, 2012 7:46 a.m.

    Proxy baptisms do not mean anything to absolutely anyone except members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including Jewish people. Why should they care? The attention this is getting from certain groups is nothing more than an attempt to embarrass the church.

  • GAmom Athens, GA
    March 9, 2012 7:46 a.m.

    Number one: Why is the press and the Church giving so much attention to this lady who sounds crazy! This is from the news article in the Washington Post where she sounds so nuts!
    Number 2-By her own admissions she skulks around the Family History Library watching other patrons and waiting for them to not log out correctly then she accesses their log in to look up things she knows she is not suppose to. Isn't this considered hacking and illegal? Can't they take out a restraining order to keep her out because of her questionable practices?

  • raybies Layton, UT
    March 9, 2012 6:48 a.m.

    'nuff said.

  • windsor City, Ut
    March 9, 2012 4:56 a.m.

    article--Radkey said that the LDS Church...are tracking those who access this data, and locking out those, like myself...
    "If she, or anyone else, is misusing a Church member's identity to search for Holocaust names, then the system is set up to block those kinds of activities," Purdy said"

    Ah, now that is poetic justice.