Is there any psychological test that identifies people without a conscience? If
so how can people get one, to administer to people before they are accepted into
a family to marry their children?If not, if you are a student of
psychology consider doing the research to make such a test possible. This can be
your masters or doctors thesis and may lead to a Nobel (type) prize and may you
rich.I've heard we need to pay attention to our inner sense, our
feelings to discern such things. Perhaps this is the answer or at least part of
it.In this form, I encouraged Mr. Powell to take a polygraph test.
Never mind, I think we all know the truth now.
The fire - the charred remains....Perhaps that's why no one has been
able to find Susan.It fits the pattern.
I hope and pray that closure comes for the Cox family. They are decent people
who in no way deserved to be touched by this evil. They were willing to provide
a happy loving home for two little boys who had lost their mother and had an
evil monster as a dad. Hopefully those children had some joy during the last
few months. I can't continue to hear more about this Powell family without
feeling just so sad. Jennifer seems to be a good and decent person who escaped
from the evil, but otherwise, how sad. Father Steven still refuses to help.
The rest of the family including cousins in Texas try to blame everyone and
anyone but the true culprit. Josh Powell did these things on his own with
premeditation. How any parent could take an axe to his children is way beyond
my comprehension. And then to perform the ultimate indignity to this children
burn them up in a fire that he planned and set. But in his final evil act, as
in most of his life Josh Powell was incapable of performing the job correctly.
He was a failure in all he tried to do on this earth. His evilness will carry
him to the next level. I am not normally a vindictive person, but I hope he
suffers. As he has made so many others suffer.
Unreal. Ijust can't believe something like this would happen. But this isn't the
first time and it won't be the last.
Supervised visit does not do much good if Powell could have so easily gotten the
boys in the house and locked the social worker out. I think a big lawsuit is in
order. Not that it will change what happened, but maybe it will prevent another
tragedy going forward. This never should have even had a chance of happening.
This man was a coward and on the verge of being caught. Only a coward would do
something so heinous as this,to hurt any and all people related to this family
and the world in general. I just hope the children had a peaceful ride to be
with their mother and This sick coward has a rough ride in the other
direction.After reading evrything about this in the last 48 hrs. There were
mistakes made here in regard to the courts.With these tests that were required
why were the childrens visitation made at the home and not in a very public
place with supervision? Why give this guy the oppertunity to do this? Why wasn't
he placed into immediate custody upon the allegations of the child porn by hid
himself? I guess we'll really will never know and that is sad.
The state and the courts should have known that someone as controlling as Josh
Powell would be capable of something like this. We have too many courts handing
children over to dangerous men under the umbrella of "father's
rights." The poor social worker didn't have any time to do anything to save
those boys. It's the courts that need to change. This incident has set a
horrible precident. If a family is terrified for their children, the courts need
to listen. I am also an active LDS, and I know those boys are in the
arms of the Savior. It's the Coxes that are suffering. My prayers are with them.
Again, PLEASE listen to the fears of parents/grandparents when you
decide to send children to a home. The fact that the visits were supposed to be
supervised should tell you how trustworthy this man was. I know there are good
men out there that deserve to see their children. Just listen and take the fears
of the other adults involved.
I am LDS, I know these boys are with their Father in Heaven right now, resting
from any sorrows they may have passed through in this life. But if you are
reading this and you are LDS, Catholic, Baptist, Jewish, whatever you believe, I
think we all know there is a loving Father in Heaven and that is where these
boys are. I think we are all very sad about what has happened. I cannot help
but think about my own children all day since I heard of this. I have a 3 year
old daughter and a 1 year old son. I love them and would lay my life down for
them without hesitation. What this man did is the purest form of evil I have
ever seen. Even worse than Dahmer and Bundy in my book. He did this to his own
children. God bless the Cox family, the boys, and all affected by this tragedy.
No matter what your religious background is, we should all include them in our
@ Voice...OK then, perhaps he was able to think and act deliberately. But the
line between mental and spiritual health is often blurry. There was obviously
something very wrong on the inside of this individual. I'm not pointing to a
cause or blaming anyone in particular. But well balanced, healthy folks just
don't go around killing their kids and setting fire to themselves.
Photographermom and O'really,O'really's point is a common argument.
In all honesty, we cannot assume to know anything about his mental state. Even
if we had observed and examined this guy's every move, reaction, and so on, we
would know nothing about what went on in his head.To me, the 'could
a sane person do this anyway' argument is a bit of a Red Herring. The truth is
that there are people who aren't entirely aware of their actions due to extreme
mental limitations (whether drug induced, or any other reason)- and then there
are deliberate actions where someone was aware of their decision and made it
based on their desires, beliefs, motivations, etc.As much as
everyone likes to say "I knew he was the killer" this is false. No one
"knew" anything about what went on inside his head. He didn't have
"classic psychopath" attributes. This is all nonsense. What we do know
is that he didn't act like a crazed lunatic without a conscious understanding
and the free agency to act. He was free, he wasn't unable to make rational
decisions, and he chose to deliberately do this. That's all we can know about
Photographermom...Do you believe a mentally healthy person could do something
Have to think that this is a pattern revealed. Susan probably didn't know what
hit her, hopefully neither did the boys. It's hard to get beyond that moment of
brutality. The boys have but I hope Josh never does.
How very sad that this man was so sick and that his sickness destroyed the lives
of those around him, and has negatively impacted so many onlookers. He will have
to account to our Father in Heaven (as will we all) for his poor choices. I
believe there is only One Person who knows the whole truth and His justice will
be served. Our job is not to judge but to mourn and comfort. Tough to do under
It's a shame that those two young boys lost their lifes, because of their father
and my heart and prays goes out to their grandparents. I believe that this could
have been pervented if they wheren't allowed to go to their father's home and
the supevised visit would of been done at the office. Hind site is 50 50. I also
believe that they never find Susan Powell's body since her husband took his
life. I also believe that with the testing they wanted done that Josh Powell
knew that something would be found out about him and he would lose cousty of
both boys with no visiation rights, and that he in fact was the person who took
his wife's life and the guilt got to him and that if he couldn't have the
children with him nobody would have them. I believe that Josh Powell was very
sick and need help, but refused to get any help.
Some are too quick to blame mental illness on everything, to them I say there is
real evil in this world. Josh Powell, case in point. Dont blame this incident
on mental illness.
This isn't the state's fault. Your spouse disappears you don't want
to lose your kids. They couldn't prove anything. Until you can prove he was free
and that meant free to parent. It was a break they were living with grandpa who
got into trouble with the law. And that trouble wasn't related to mortal danger.
Physical danger but not mortal danger. They weren't removed because of Susan,
but grandpa. I wonder what would have happened if Josh were taken into foster
care as a child? Grandpa didn't assume the habit after Josh became an adult. If
the grandkids were in danger from grandpa, Josh was a child. Maybe none of this
would have never happened? There are not enough government buildings
for every parent to visit their child. In a public place more people would have
been in danger. It's a miracle the social worker survived the ordeal. A weapon
and a house ready to be lit with accelerants.
God bless these poor families, and all of us.
Using just a cup of gas to ignite causes a big poof and power. A simple match to
a total of ten gallons with the open can next to the kids and they would never
know what hit them. Why use a ax to clobber them first?? This an is beyond
trying to figure out. It is hard to believe they say they did not see this
comming. As posters have noted they seen it for a long time. History now. Time
for some hard fast rules on supervised visitations. Let us hope this will
protect other kids. Josh could have taken the woman case worker with them. Glad
at least she was saved.
No matter what the state did Josh would have found a way. Don't blame the state
don't blame the CPS. This is Josh, this is on Josh, Josh lives in a mental lake
of fire. Those boys would have never been safe,the rest of there
lives. Horrific. I am glad that they are in a loving
heavenly fathers arms and also there mothers.
I just threw-up, "I wish people wouldn't Monday morning
quarterback and blame the Social Services folks. No one knew what Mr Josh Powell
was going to do. He had shown no indications of being capable of killing himself
and the kids. " Ditto. You can't blame CPS.Millstones...I wish I hadn't eaten anything before I sat down to read this.
Josh Powell is called "evil" -- and his acts were evil. However,
this illustrates two points yet again. 1) difficulties in getting mental
health treatments 2) understanding the causes and effects in development of
human personality.Josh Powell is called cowardly. Yet it is his
actions and his decisions that have guided the final solution. However, this
horrible tragedy was not inevitable. Someone in authority lead the boys and
turned them over to him.
Josh Powell in my book is one of the most evil parents that has existed in the
history of mankind. His acts compare to Hitler and many other evil men like
that. I have known of parents that have killed their children, we have a case
here in Missouri right now, but Josh was pure evil. There is no doubt now that
he also killed his wife and that he had planned things out with that too, down
to the phone call to state she was missing. I will not point my finger at
anyone that defended him, or say we tried to tell you, but if they know
anything, especially Steve Powell, make it right and step forward with all the
information you have or even what you don't realize that you have. Don't defend
this monster anymore, if you do, then you too are being monsters.
Old Navy, many have argued that "this proves he killed her" on
previous articles (before the news of the hatchet). At that time, there was no
such logical way to connect her disappearance in a way that had any significant
value.However, they have said that it appears there are markings,
etc. And while 'appears' isn't necessarily certainty- I would argue that if
assuming this was true- this point absolutely does provide insight into the
likely reasons behind her disappearance. At least that seems like a reasonable
connection to me.
We suspected Josh murdered his wife in 2009. Now the whole world knows he left
this earth as a murderer. Hell will not allow him to rest.Steven
Powell... are you proud and stand by your son now? Had you told the truth, two
little boys might still be alive today. Can you live with that? Everyone else
who fought to help Josh keep his sons should feel a whole lot of guilt too, he
was obviously an unstable and unfit parent.My sincere condolences to
the Cox and Graves families. I hope they take some comfort in knowing that
Charlie and Braden are reunited with their mother, who dearly loves them.I take my hat off to the police for continuing to seek justice for the
murder of Susan. They never gave up and continued to look for the smoking gun. I
commend you for that.We can only hope that Susan's body is found, so
further evidence is found and so she can be laid to rest with her boys. RIP
Susan, Charlie and Braden, you will never be forgotten.
Rifleman,That isn't entirely accurate. I haven't really defended
Josh keeping custody, but I did claim the following--without enough
evidence to convict, we shouldn't blame law enforcement for not 'doing their
job'. One can always think of better 'policies' but none of that will ever stop
evil. Convincing more people to choose what's morally upright, family first,
etc. is the only effective solution, imo anyway.-As far as Josh and
the custody. I didn't feel like he should or shouldn't have had it. I only felt
like they should be charging him if they are taking custody. Being a 'suspect'
doesn't automatically qualify taking children away, otherwise thousands of
families would be unnecessarily separated.This case doesn't disprove
our current law of "Innocent until proven guilty". For over 1000 years
we practiced a different system where the 'burden of proof' was on the defendant
and things surely were worse then. Only God's system is perfect, not ours.
Sadly, this gives some insight into what might have happened to Susan.
I would like to think Charlie and Braden are in the arms of their loving mother
right now. Together forever.
This ending and story has affected everyone. I just feel sick inside and cannot
shake that feeling yet. It makes me think maybe Susan was talking about leaving
him and taking the boys which Josh would not allow so did something to Susan.
And now they are saying they found child porn on Josh's WVC computer.
This was unfortunate for all people. All people deserve justice and peace in
this situation. There is no one that could have made a correct ruling for this
case. With the amount of information missing; judging this case correctly would
have been impossible.
For those familiar with LDS doctine, we know exactly where these little boys are
and who they are with. As devastating as it is for those who loved them dearly;
there is a sweetness at knowing they are with their mom and cannot be hurt again
and have a glorious eternity ahead. We also know exactly where Josh Powell is
and what lies ahead for him. He can only hope that someday he is afforded more
love and mercy than he gave.
As of this late afternoon Monday,Thiers a Brief news update interview from Washington state.Listen to KSL desert news WVC Utah
Clearly the State Family Services failed these two little boys. There is NO WAY
these two boys should have ever be allowed to be alone with this NUT of a
father. The father should have been required to come and see the boys in a safe
house with other supervision UNTIL the father was cleared of suspicion. This was
an on-going investigation and the system broke down. Unforgivable.
There's no one to blame but Josh. The courts and social system are always
limited in what they can do and seemed to be doing the best they could. If
Josh's father knows anything and desires to be anything less than a coward, he
will come forward with the truth. But I wouldn't hold my breath. People like
this are usually incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions or
that of their children. And yet they end up being the very thing they are
trying to avoid.
I like the image of the boys' loving mother finally getting to embrace them in a
sweet reunion and comforting them in a place where no one can do them harm.Josh on the other hand is in a mental state that I wouldn't care to try to
imagine.Also, those bashing the state or the social worker, keep in mind
that they were only carrying out the orders given by the court. And that was
done based on current evidence and the input of others.This is all on Josh
and no one else, except perhaps a lot of help from his father who can now ponder
his own destiny and day of reconing with his maker.I do believe his dad
knows what happened, but he his probably too cowardly to ever give final closure
to those who remain suffering.
I don't think the situation on Sunday could have been foreseen exactly, but I do
believe authorities had enough to arrest him. Therefore, why should he have any
rights to see his sons?I still don't understand why he hadn't ever
been named an official suspect and arrested even without a body.The
one saving grace I see is that those boys are now with their mother.
I don't blame the state. They did what they could within the bounds of the law.
How would a neutral site have made any difference? I can picture Powell pulling
out a weapon and then the social worker and others might have been killed. I
don't know that you can stop someone who is determined to do something this
terrible and depraved enough to carry it out.
Great point rifleman!
I was relaxing at home when my husband came to me and said: "Remember I
told you two years ago that Powell guy will eventually kill himself and his two
children? well, he just did it." I am not family but felt like they
were.I do think police did fear this and they should had done
everything possible to prevent it. I was suprised to hear visits were at his
residence and not a neutral location. A woman can't certainly do much to prevent
a tragedy. I also do hope the Savior took these little kids' lives
so they didn't suffer. Die by fire, for crying out loud, is one of the most
painful ways to die. Get a sunburn and you will have a pale idea. And to think
his own father planned it and did it. They are with their mother now, safe and
sound, away from all this mess. They can't be hurt again.
I wouldn't count on Steven Powell to give any information, he's as sick as Josh.
I would hope that he would, but I don't think he will.
Re: DeltaFoxtrot | 9:24 a.m. Feb. 6, 2012 "I hope the state is ready
to be sued for everything they are worth."In earlier stories
about Josh Powell several commenters felt that the state should mind its own
business and return the children back to Josh permanently. Those commenters
have not indicated if they've changed their minds .... in hind sight.
Last night, as I thought about the events of the deaths of these two boys and
the monster. I had the thought come to me that these little boys were probably
embraced in the arms of the Savior and that they didn't suffer. On the other
hand, their father probably did and is suffering a worse inferno then that house
ended up being. Those little boys are now existing in their adult spirit form
until the resurrection and they are free of suffering for eternity.
It is a sad situation. I wish people wouldn't Monday morning quarterback and
blame the Social Services folks. No one knew what Mr Josh Powell was going to
do. He had shown no indications of being capable of killing himself and the
kids. The Washington state social workers were taking reasonable precautions.
Mr Josh Powell had not been convicted or even accused of any crime, yet. The
poor social worker was outside of that house when it burst into flames, knowing
that the two children were in there. So, sad and really easy to have 20/20
hindsight, but who among us knew what was going to happen. I for one totally
believe that Mr Josh Powell killed his wife and disposed of the body somewhere
in the desert, and I thing Sunday's horrendous act shows that he was surely
capable of doing something awful to those he supposedly loved. The Cox family
is going to need the loving support of everyone to get through this. As for the
other family involved, they to will need to come to terms with what happened.
The evil acts of an evil man.
To DeltaFoxtrot: Hindsight is always better, and I agree that those boys should
have been kept from their father, but suing the "state" doesn't mean
suing some independent entity; it means suing the taxpayers. I cannot see how
any taxpayer should be made to pay one dime for any alleged mistake.
If I were to write what I am feeling yesterday and this morning regarding Josh
Powell's cowardice, the DN would not approve my words nor would my Bishop.
Better a millstone....
Everyone is going to Suffer from this sorrow)
What a Shock!!Creepy evil father Josh Powell a Murder thats so
Chilling!!!! A very (emotional sad Day) as to what has Just Happened
yesterday in Washington State.Reads as those Young Boys Braden&Charlie
were knowing more?It sounds likely they wanted to speak more about
thier missing Susan
I hope the state is ready to be sued for everything they are worth. Those
children should have never been allowed a visit with their father at his home.
Any visitation should have been supervised and conducted at a neutral
location.Really the children should have been taken into Federal
protective custody and moved far far away when their father became the primary
suspect in the investigation. Both families had too much involved in this case
and the experience was far too traumatic for the children.
Josh Powell has alot to account for. I'm just sorry the boys had to go through
the horror of dying that way. They had so much time yet to live. It's crazy how
selfishness and doing wrong things can really send a ripple effect through the
family ties. I hope there comes a day when there will be peace again
in the Cox's lives.