Governor announces clean air initiative

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  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 1, 2012 10:36 p.m.

    mtmanmc - interesting comments. Could you help out with providing a little more basis for your comments. In particular you use the time frame of 4 years ago. Yes, part of 4 years ago prices were lower, but only for a short while. 4 years ago also happens to have been the most expensive year for transport as well with fuel cost reaching there highest on record, still well over a dollar more a gallon then current prices.

    It would be just interesting to get where your numbers came from. I am working several supply chain optimization projects, so I am interested.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 1, 2012 10:31 p.m.

    my2cents.... this statement "Activist and citizens have to remember that this country is run by a socialist government and it will do whatever it has to to keep us all in poverty and low wages..." makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

    A quick way to test your theory would be to test US income per capita versus some of the most socialist western countries - Denmark, Sweden, Norway. Comparing these countries to the US (ranked 15th), all three have higher per capita incomes (ranked 7,8, and 3 respectively). So progressive socialist democracies do not have lower per capita incomes.

    I agreed with your first paragraph.. but then you totally lost me. A government that sustains itself largely on income tax revenue does not benefit from lower wages. The higher the wages, the more revenue. Rather it is corporations that benefit most from lower wages. You have to follow who benefits, and from low wages it isn't the government.

    You might want to retest your hypothesis on this one. Who benefits, who stands to gain.

  • mtmanmc Colorado Springs, CO
    Feb. 1, 2012 8:39 p.m.

    Strange that now E-85 is more expensive than regular gas. Bio Fuels will cost us clean water and price of corn will continue to rise. Beef, pork, chicken, and turkey will cost more and more. Enjoy the rising cost of can goods at your local super market as the cost of energy increases to meet federal and states regulations. We are now in the era of government regulations, which are changing our standard of living. Energy costs are now costing all of us at the super market and every other product on the market. The day is coming when it will be a choice between driving or eating or heating or lighting your home. Here in Colorado Springs, the city has cut 50% of street lighting and the city owns the power plant. Cost of delivery of coal by diesel powered trains. Cost of coal and diesel are much higher than 4 years ago.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 1, 2012 5:12 p.m.

    "We all want clean air but who really has faith that the govt will get it right without destroying 10 other things in the process?"

    You are so right.... the government does nothing right... at all..... ever.

    You know visiting here this week driving from Utah country and rounding the point of the mountain brought me back to the good old days of visiting my grandparent in the LA basin in the 60s and 70s. The warm memories of the nice brownish haze, obscuring the views of the mountains... just like the good old days.

    Please - liberal agenda? Perhaps you forgot the good old days of US Steel and the view it provided there in Alpine. The smog producing monstrosity is now a faint memory, but the air in Utah valley is far better, and the area seems to be better off without it, economy and standard of living.

    Is that one of the unintended consequences you were referring to?

    I know, trust corporations.... they have the people of Utah's best interest at the heart of their decisions....

  • Yanquetino Ivins, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 4:54 p.m.

    Well, okay, Guv! How about finally giving electric cars (like the Leaf that was parked right next to you at this presentation) the same $2,500 state tax incentive that you give to CNG vehicles? After all, unlike CNG and gasoline cars, EVs have NO tailpipe.

    (And please, commenters, don't start on that old, worn out "long tailpipe" argument against EVs, since Questar and the oil companies uses the same coal-fired electric plants to drill, extract, refine, compress, and pump their fossil fuels.)

  • lket Bluffdale, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    our water is cleaner in our lakes and the bald eagle is safe. 40 years ago this was not true. warmind climate does not matter if we kill our oceans with mercury and oil spills. 70% of oxygen is made in the sea. even more likley than killing us with global warming is this.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    'How typical of democrats...using emotion (vs logic and historical results) to justify government control and loss of freedom.' - Anti Government | 11:12 a.m. Feb. 1, 2012

    Excuse me??

    **'GOP contenders: Extend anti-terror Patriot Act' - By Philip Elliott - AP - Published by DSNews - 11/22/11

    " 'The TSA was created as part of the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, sponsored by Don Young in the United States House of Representatives[2] and Ernest Hollings in the Senate,[3] passed by the 107th U.S. Congress, and signed into law by President George W. Bush on November 19, 2001.'
    - Cursory wikipedia search.

    The REASON you threw up in your mouth...

    is because you present ZERO examples of the very thing you claim.

    So, 'yeah'...

    you MUST give your examples of 'failed goverment programs.'

    Since we have EVIDENCE of the 'failed self-regulation' of big business in...

    Goldman Sachs

    and the air in Utah...

    you have to chew.


    The EPA was signed by Nixon.

  • Anti Government Alpine, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    I think everyone wants clean air but seriously, how many times have we heard these overhyped emotionally driven statements like this from the article? How typical of democrats...using emotion (vs logic and historical results) to justify government control and loss of freedom.

    "When that tragedy occurs, it's right for government to step in,"

    I think I just threw up in my mouth.

    We all want clean air but who really has faith that the govt will get it right without destroying 10 other things in the process? Do they ever undo the "unintended" mistakes they make when they pass legislation?

    Must I really list all the failed government programs that have been created with the best of "emotional intentions" but in reality saddled us with inefficiencey, wasted tax dollars, miserable burdensome unintended beauracracy, and costs?

    The proper incentives are much cheaper to our economy than more burdensome failed government policy.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 10:52 a.m.

    I hope the bus and semi truck in the picture were idling while he gave his speech.

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 9:56 a.m.

    I just keep waiting for the electric car wave to kick in. Unfortunately, the prices are still way too high and the non-interchangeable batteries really hurt consumer flexibility. For Utah, they really would be a great solution. Whether you are on the "cut back carbon emissions" bandwagon or not, our big problem is emissions directly into the air in OUR valleys. Generating the electricity elsewhere, in open space and away from population centers, at least solves the air quality issues here. (Added bonus - with your electric car parked in the garage, you have a large battery backup you can use during power outages. What's not to like?)

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 9:56 a.m.

    'At the federal level all consumer oversight and safety agency's including EPA...' - My2Cents | 4:58 a.m. Feb. 1, 2012

    I realize the EPA is the favorite punching bag of the month for conservatives, but...

    the EPA was created by Republican President, Nixon.

    In 1970.

    So, the claims of 'socialist' control over the air we breathe....

    was created by, a Republican President.

    Also, it is hard to claim that 'soclist's' want to control business when...

    **'Study says coal burning in Utah kills 202 a year' - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/19/10

    'SALT LAKE CITY A study commissioned by Utah state agencies says air pollution kills 202 residents a year.' - article

    People are LITERALLY, dying.

    So please. Stop trying to make this a political issue when Utah is prodominately under ONE party rule.

    The air you breathe, is factually killing you.

    That claim is provable, and I proved it.

    And Utah's leadership, is making token jestures, to stop it.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 9:07 a.m.

    Automobile driving and alcohol consumption are both lawful activities that provide benefits and satify consumer needs. Yet both behaviors carried to excess generate social negatives. Society has a legitimate prerogative to create policies to rein in both behaviors to acceptable norms. Interesting how the policy approaches to the two problems differ so dramatically in Utah. Let's try swapping the two.

    To control automobile air pollution, the retail sale and distribution of autos and gasoline are socialized. Advertising is restricted. Cars and gas are only available through state-run stores, which you can only find if you know to look in the blue pages of the phone book. Prices are jacked up well above those in surrounding states. Promotional discounts (e.g. Toyotathon) are prohibited. Gas can only be pumped from behind a screen so children cannot watch.

    To control drunk driving and alcoholism, the state relies on voluntary self-control and kindly asks people to cut back.

    Which approach is more likely to achieve the desired goal?

  • My2Cents Taylorsville, UT
    Feb. 1, 2012 4:58 a.m.

    I think what people and activist are not understanding is that government downsizing and taxation cuts means we have to all make some big sacrifices that are going to be unpleasant and contrary to many opinions or scientific databases.

    Activist and citizens have to remember that this country is run by a socialist government and it will do whatever it has to to keep us all in poverty and low wages. A socialist government does not allow independence, freedoms, rights, prosperity, and wealth of its working class and health care. For socialist to maintain those controls on its population they will sacrifice any and all service programs that are not related to population control and dependence. Government priority now is shut down the masses, put them in poverty, and raise taxes.

    At the federal level all consumer oversight and safety agency's including EPA are being shut down to access and redistribute funds to other control programs and its working its way across the spectrum in all state governments.

    Utah is a beneficiary of this redistribution of wealth plans in Washington and blindly follow the donor like a pied piper leading rats (citizens) to their death.