$1.5 Billion? I am an estimator in a large contruction company located in
Southern California. Hi-rise, hi-end retail space can be built out for around
$260/SF here. Maybe less now, since construction costs have gone down since the
last time we priced one in 2008. Retail space can be built for around $125,
complete, w/ interiors. 700,000 sf x $125 = $88 million. 731,000 sf condo space
x $260/sf = $190 million. I don't know what the parking SF is, but that could
go for up to $100/sf if its located underground. Lets say its equal to the bldg
SF-1,431,000 sf at $100/sf = $143 million. 88M plus 190M plus 143M = $421
million.I haven't broke half a billion dollars yet. How does Taubman
spend $1.5 Billion dollars on all this? I thought the church already owned the
land, and demo costs for what was there shouldn't even break 5% of the building
Downtown was dying a slow death. This project will bring new life to a real
downtown area. It's beautiful and vibrant. Kudos to all involved.
John Pack Lambert of Michigan,The Mormon Temple in Philadelphia is
being built at 17th and Vine Street. It is currently a vacant parking lot and
the City has been trying to get a development on that site since the early 90's
without success. The City even threatened to take the property away from an
unsuccessful developer. Then the Church bought it instead. I think you can
safely classify the area as run down.
"estimated $1.5 billion downtown development"estimated
when? before they started building? what is the "actual" development
Re: Truthseeker | 6:26 p.m. Oct. 27, 2011 "How do you know where the
money comes from?"The headquarters for the financial and
charitable arms of the LDS along with their auditing departments are housed in
different facilities. While their financial statements aren't public you can
bet your life they are available to the IRS, and you can bet your last dollar
the LDS Church wouldn't risk losing their tax exempt status by mingling
charitable and non-charitable funds.Like I said earlier, not one
single red cent of tithing or other charitable funds went into this financial
Dutchman, I think you need to do more research. You are the fist person
who I have ever seen call central Philadephia "run down". It is not
run down, you are just wrong.
The project is not subsidized by "charitable exemption". The Church
pays taxes on all its for-profit properties. In fact it pays taxes on its
investment properties it probably could get tax exempt status on but choses not
to. The claim that there is any tax-exemption fueling this project in any way
Re:RiflemanMaybe you are right, maybe not.#1 Money is fungible.#2 How do you know where the money comes from? Church financial statements
Kami,They can open on Sunday and/or get a liquor license only if
they own the property for their foot print. Which means they will have to
purchase that foot print from the LDS Church which will be accomodating most of
The mayor of Philadelphia just assisted in breaking ground for a new LDS Temple
in downtown Philadelphia in a high profile but run down area. The mayor and
City Council members were thrilled to get a new Mormon Temple downtown and it is
not even a commercial development. Salt Lake City is very lucky to have this
commercial project built under the supervision of the LDS church. It has
employed 1,500 construction workers and will provide 2,000 permanent jobs. What
more can people ask for?
LivinLarge | 2:47 p.m. Oct. 27, 2011 Bountiful, UT First, with the
LDS Church owning the property, I assume the CC&R's will not allow
businesses to be open on the sabbath. This being the case, I commend the many
business owners for their willingness to forfeit the ill gotten gains that would
otherwise be earned on the sabbath day. Thanks in advance LDS Church for holding
to your sacred standards.@LivinLarge, if you do a search you will
find that the restaurants will be given the option to open on Sunday.
sDiamond Pistol | 2:35 p.m. Oct. 27, 2011 I somethat agree with some
of your weird comments about co-dependence and the church - maybe your family or
immediate circle is needy and you decided they represent a majority of Utah
Mormons. What co-dependant community problem is the church trying to solve with
the City Creek project are you referring to? And where on earth do you get the
illusion that the church or community is in denial about our so-called suffering
economy. It isn't what is was in 2006, but it's recovering and not in shambles
like other markets - this project is creating 2,000 jobs! It's called
creating/building economy in a city that is demanding this project. @ Diamond Pistol, No my family doesn't need or take from the church. We have
learned how to take care of ourselves. Communities and people living in
communities need to learn to stand on their own two feet and figure out how to
recover. Taking all of these funds from the deepest pocket in Utah is nothing
less than a free handout. And it is expected in this State among MANY members
of the church in Utah.
First, with the LDS Church owning the property, I assume the CC&R's will not
allow businesses to be open on the sabbath. This being the case, I commend the
many business owners for their willingness to forfeit the ill gotten gains that
would otherwise be earned on the sabbath day. Thanks in advance LDS Church for
holding to your sacred standards.
@KamiI somethat agree with some of your weird comments about
co-dependence and the church - maybe your family or immediate circle is needy
and you decided they represent a majority of Utah Mormons. What co-dependant
community problem is the church trying to solve with the City Creek project are
you referring to? And where on earth do you get the illusion that the church or
community is in denial about our so-called suffering economy. It isn't what is
was in 2006, but it's recovering and not in shambles like other markets - this
project is creating 2,000 jobs! It's called creating/building economy in a city
that is demanding this project. We've got the blind leading the blind - between
people not understanding the facts and making ignorant comments, and the tent
city in Pioneer Park of people waiting for handouts like the Wallstreet
Not one dime of tax payer or LDS Church tithing money has been spent on City
Creek. No City in the U.S. has had a commercial project of this size built
without some kind of tax payer subsidy.Some comments here sound like
those of the Occupy Wall Street protesters. You should be happy that no bail
out money or tax payer money was used. Kudos to the LDS Church for such a
wonderful and forward looking project.
My thoughts, from an active LDS point of view. I've been LDS my entire life,
but only in Utah the last few years. I see a HUGE dependence upon the church by
Utah mormons in general, more than I have experienced in any other community I
have lived in throughout the U.S. Yet the church allegedly tries to teach
independence. I see Utah mormons looking more than they should to the church to
solve their problems. In communities outside of Utah, members of the church
would be meeting with other members within their communities to solve the
problems of their communties, to find funding to revitalize their downtown
areas, etc. Yet in Utah, particularly the closer you get to Church
headquarters, you see this happen again and again -- the church stepping in to
solve the problems of the communities. I don't think this co-dependence is
healthy. I also think that the funds spent on this project are an attempt to
have the world believe that SLC's economy is healthier than it is.
I can't understand how anyone would have a negative thing to say about City
Creek. Privately funded, Beautifully designed, revitalizes downtown, 2000 new
jobs, adds tourism $ to SLC. Any negative comments are clearly showing an
unfounded bias against,... well, we all know who it's against.
Ray in St.Petersburg | 6:25 a.m. Oct. 27, 2011 It is an ongoing problem.
There is a small group that feels that because the DesNews has a strong LDS
readership they need to add a little acid to the discussion.
As I was going to the University of Utah to be a urban planner, I worked in the
ugliest building that was left standing with the City Creek project. The
building was then called the Beneficial Life tower. During the 90's the two
malls (ZCMI and Crossroads) was becoming delapidated and outdated and there was
no residential presence other than the Belvedere Apts. on State Street. By
planning theory, downtown SLC was dying. The LDS Church realized this and wanted
to ensure that their properties would not die by association with neighboring
blocks of downtown (of which they had partial ownership). By
creating nearly 600 residential units and more desirable options for dining and
shopping in downtown SLC it will revitalize the area. Thanks should also be
given to the Harmon Bros. They saw the vision in needing a full operating
grocery store for the existing and new residences to use within walking
distance. Rather than downtown SLC becoming a ghost town after 5:00
PM on a weekday or a weekend, downtown SLC will have a vibrant nightlife and a
stronger economic value. Everything is cyclical and the redevelopment of
downtown will be for the better.
Re: one vote | 8:09 a.m. Oct. 27, 2011 "It is subsidized by
charitable exemption."No, this project was financed by the
commercial arm of the LDS Church, and not one single penny of charitable
(tithing) funds was used. That means the funds used ARE NOT a charitable
Its definitely in keeping up with outward appearances as in common in Utah.
@ one vote.No, they get to come to your house. Glad you only get 1
IT is a great project. It is subsidized by charitable exemption. Do the homeless
get to camp out there?
I am appalled at the bitter, cynical, and overall tasteless comments made by
some of your readers .....
Ex-Mayor Ross "Rocky" Anderson fought the Sky Bridge and Main Street
Plaza tooth and nail. He lost and the businesses and people in Salt Lake City
won. I wonder if he'll ever admit that he was wrong.
Since I use the City Center trax station every day, I have to say that I
actually like the bridge, even if only for two practical reasons. 1) It will
keep shoppers from crowding the sidewalk to the station, only to keep walking,
and 2) the little trax huts on the stations don't provide much protection
against rain and snow, and this thing might do a better job on at least one
So super neat. Money well spent, downtown SLC is way more important than any
other need the world may have.
@HutteriteAs a real estate developer, the project MUST make money or
else retailers will leave and the project will fail. Tiffany & CO. is going
to be located there along with Nordstrom and other big-name retailers. They do
their own (extremely detailed) market analysis before making a decision to
invest in any new location. Having done the market analysis myself, Salt Lake
City is throbbing for a downtown life such as what City Creek is bringing to it.
There is so much pent up demand for this project, the shops, the restaurants,
the lifestyle - it's something other cities have had and that Salt Lake
(downtown, not the periphery, like the Gateway) has been wanting/needing for a
long time. No entity, business, church or whatever is going to blow $1.5B for
fun. This will completely change downtown Salt Lake in a big way. And what's
with the silly comment about "what money can do?" Your car is a
monument as to what money can do, as well as you house, as well as your clothes.
2,000 jobs and a healthy tax base is another huge bonus of this project.
Although I disagree with "Counter Intelligence" about the skybridge
being unnecessary, in no way was his/her comment hateful. Let's not get too
defensive.I happen to agree that the skybridge's design isn't the
greatest. Visually, it's too heavy, and makes the space underneath feel crowded.
The etched leaves didn't turn out so well; unless you're very close they look
like smudges. City Creek tried to pay homage to more traditional architectural
styles; the skybridge could've reflected that.But hey, anytime you
have a project this big, there will be some elements that could've been done
better. There's far more to like about City Creek than to dislike. It's a bold
attempt to introduce a mixed-use, transit-oriented, New Urbanist development
into downtown Salt Lake, and even though Counter Intelligence and I might look
at certain points and wish they'd been done differently, I think we both hope
it's a success.
At least it has a retractable roof. I never understood the concept of an
outdoor shopping mall in Utah.
@Hutterite"It's a monument to what money can do. I think only
time will tell if it was what money should do."As a life-long
resident of Utah and a frequent visitor to SLC, I can't imagine how this
development is a bad thing. The former establishment was a ghost town because
it was outmoded and inconvenient. So instead of letting an enormous mall sit
vacant for years to come, the church decided to be proactive. If they didn't do
anything about it, they would have been criticized for being bad neighbors. It seems like a lot of people are over-thinking this whole issue. They
took a big dying ugly and turned it into a thing of beauty. End of story.
What a wasted effort of money and resources. This will surely be labeled as the
biggest business flop in slc and mormondom.
I know this makes me a 'hater' but the whole development to me seems kind of
false. Sure, the buildings are real, and I'll go there when it's open from time
to time, but the whole concept is a bit forced to me. We didn't need the retail
space. It doesn't have to make money like another shopping mall would. I imagine
the expectation that it will is there, but if it doesn't nobody has to explain
to the bank or shareholders. And the timing is not good. Of course, if you're
going to build this sort of thing, where better than the middle of a town where
most people have to have some tiny inkling they're a shareholder in it, even if
unwillingly? It's a monument to what money can do. I think only time will tell
if it was what money should do.
What!? I LOVE the skybridge!I love the design. I thought it was
perfectly designed to blend in with the city, the mall, etc. And from these
picture it seems that it will have an amazing view as well. Of course some
people thought the space needle looked bad too, but guess what... it's now a
staple of Seattle. This bridge may not be that same staple item- but I like it
and I know plenty of others that do to!
Congrats to the architects and the LDS Church for beautifying the city!I
can't wait to see it all. I love the sky bridge and will be so happy in
the cold and wet weather to be able to go from one mall to the other.I do
think they should put a big tongue on the bottom and a squirrel, or a rock!
Won't spend one dime there.
It never seems to amaze me of the hatred that exists in this town. If any other
entity other then The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints were building
this shopping center those who express hatred would be praising this outstanding
shopping and living environment that is being created. But I guess we can
expect nothing better from such persons.
CounterIntelligenceCan you hold your unnecessary skybridge comments
until the project is completed. At that time visit the area and make any
I agree that the skybridge could've been designed better. But I would not be so
presumptious as to declare that it is unnecessary--not when Taubman Centers,
which was extensive experience funding and developing shopping centers,
determined that City Creek would not be viable without it. And it
makes sense--who's going to stroll along the second level, then go downstairs,
wait to cross the street, and then go upstairs again to pick up window shopping
where they left off? Shoppers don't behave like that.
@Counter IntelligenceWay to accentuate the negative. Try to compare
this to the ugly mostrosity that was standing there before. HUGE improvement!