Gay man severely beaten outside club says he was victim of hate crime

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  • Varnka Salt Lake City, utah
    Sept. 5, 2011 11:13 a.m.

    I see Vanka is still penning absurdities
    you know what the predominant religion in Utah teaches regarding matters like this

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Sept. 4, 2011 8:49 p.m.

    What a stupid thing to do to someone. There is NO justification for this. And there is No justification for anyone to point fingers at religion for this. Whoever did it couldn't possibly be religious.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Sept. 4, 2011 10:26 a.m.

    @ RAB

    It is sad when religion that is supposed to teach us how to live together fails in its purpose, and instead, the messages we get is that a whole class of human beings are sinners and not deserving of the same rights the majority enjoys in a SECULAR society.

    RAB, I suggest to you and others, try to practice "Cultural relativism" for a couple of weeks. This means to try to look at the world as other look at it. In this case how the GLBT community does.

    You may like to start by asking yourself, what involves to be gay?, why somebody would choose to be gay?, do they do any harm to society? How?
    Do they live any differently than you? Those gays who have children, do they raise them any differently? etc.

    You may go the extra mile and try to get to know a few gay people.

    After this process your opinion will have more validity and would be supported by reason and experience not only emotions or empty theories.

    Try it, you may not change your opinion but you may grow.

  • Christy Beaverton, OR
    Sept. 3, 2011 8:06 p.m.

    This is absolutely horrendous. How could human beings be so unconscionable as to gruesomely attack a stranger who did them no harm? I hope the animals who did this are caught and sent to the Point for a long, long time.

  • 22ozn44ozglass Southern Utah, UT
    Sept. 3, 2011 4:28 p.m.


    "There was NEVER a law that stated two people of the same sex could not marry in any of the 50 states until someone actually tried it - and bam! Religions blew a gasket"

    You are being disengenious here and not telling the whole truth. Starting before the Stone wall riots, one of the three main objectives of the gay agenda was to repeal all laws prohibiging homosexual sexual relations. In 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state in the US. Using the false and fraudulent work of Kensey, the mechanism to achieve this objective was put in place. Subsequently SCOTUS ruled in 2003 Lawrence vs Texas that all sodomy laws were unconstituonal.

    If gay sexual relations were illegal up until 1962 in every state in the US, how then could SSM be considered legal and lawfull.

    SSM is just the trojan horse the gay community is using to futher their agenda which is to silence all who dare speak out against them whether by lawfull means or otherwise,

    Sept. 3, 2011 12:53 p.m.


    You just don't get it, do you. Comparing marriage of same-sex couples to "mobs attacking people they hate" is ridiculous. Same-sex couples marrying hurts no one. It is people who preach against gays that cause things like this. Plenty of churches preach against gays, you just aren't listening.

    Actually, it is heterosexuals who are changing laws. There was NEVER a law that stated two people of the same sex could not marry in any of the 50 states until someone actually tried it - and bam! Religions blew a gasket.

    The Constitution of the USA Guarantees equal protection to ALL CITIZENS, regardless of what the "majority" may want. Minority, majority, it doesn't matter - we are ALL CITIZENS. And if you think it is easy for us to get the protections of marriage without one, you are sadly mistaken - and obviously have never tried.

    Heterosexual marriage is "officially condoned" by the government - so should same-sex marriage ---- because anything else is discrimination - and the government should not discriminate against citizens.

    You will ALWAYS have the right to find us icky. You do NOT have the right to vote on our Constitutional rights.

  • David in New Mexico Rio Rancho, NM
    Sept. 3, 2011 1:52 a.m.

    It's not just that gay community that's upset.

    I'm a straight Mormon and this angers me too. This a despicable hate crime; It's sick and frankly disturbing. I just hope the cowards that did this will be brought to justice before they hurt someone else.

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:35 p.m.

    I am deeply saddened about what happened to this young man. Everybody should feel safe in SLC, and such violent acts should not be tolerated. We need to come together as a community and put a stop to such hate. That being said, I have had both positive and negative experiences as a gay man growing up in an LDS community here in the Salt Lake County.

    As a young boy--knowing full well he was different than the rest of the boys his age--I heard my primary teacher tell her son that God did, in fact, not love gays. How do you think that made an insecure 11-year-old boy feel about belonging in church? Do you think maybe that boy was treated differently by the other boys in that class after the primary teacher made those comments?

    Just a few years ago at a stake conference (I still attended church meetings), I overheard a woman laugh about how happy she was that the rain must be ruining the "big gay party" being held downtown. Although not directed to me specifically, I could feel the hate in the tone of her voice. It hurt.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:24 p.m.

    First time that I have ever heard of fights and beatings occurring outside of bars. Guess, it has to be just a thing that happens outside of gay bars, or maybe going to bars just has a certain degree of risk involved and patrons probably should be aware of such. No need to talk about this being a "hate-crime" assault is enough so find the perpetrators who sound like cowards an let the law have its way.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:07 p.m.

    ignoranceisbliss, I'd like to offer one bit of advice.

    I once told someone, if you want intelligent critique for your work, go to the educated community. If you want rude, thoughtless, and disrespectful criticism, then put it on Youtube.

    Behind anonymity people can be very vicious, whether your comments provoked it or not at all.

    In a philosophy classroom I find a different paradigm. We all see each other as equal with different views. We establish first that any view is welcome, religious, not, gay, straight, etc. Then we discuss and disagree and agree.

    Hiding behind masks makes disrespect a convenient choice. Instead, when we openly accept disagreement or other views, we create a respectful, safe, and productive environment.

    I'd recommend this: BE personal, encourage it of others too! BUT, keep in mind that you'll only find civility in a situation where mutual respect has first been established. In the end we shouldn't hide our beliefs, but share them. When we are willing to share our views and listen to others, we build a productive future, a peaceful one. Hostility against another human being, simply because of their differing view lead to the violence against this man.

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:40 p.m.

    "Straight community angered by gays attacking the institution of marriage and the family. They call it a hate crime."

    Please tell me how comments like this and "... I find homosexuality morally wrong and unnatural, but I don't condone violence against those people..." do not incite some people to treat the gay community poorly? I think many of us who think was are loving and accepting need to take a long look at what we say and how we act toward others. Our attitudes do influence others.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:22 p.m.

    Please don't apologize! You absolutely were not wrong!
    You didn't come across as attacking the LDS church, just relaying some real memories, which are important. Did anybody take offense at what you wrote? If they did, that is their issue, not yours. I think your experience can and should raise awareness. And, I think your experience is pertinent to this issue as well, because some LDS parents might think they are teaching their children moral values but what is coming across, instead, is that the only good people are Mormons, and that if someone isn't LDS, or is gay or whatever, we shouldn't "associate" with them. We can/should learn from each other.
    Thank you.

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:08 p.m.

    Pagan, while your list of failings of the legal system on behalf of gays is regrettable, I must ask, are you aware that far more crimes are perpetuated against non LGTB people don't you? As far as the legal system goes it's a joke for anyone gay or not, I'm surprised you even brought that up.

  • ignoranceisbliss Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 6:52 p.m.

    For the record, I am sorry to have offended anyone it was not my intention. I was puzzled at how the comments had more to do with religion than with what actually happened to Dane Hall. For some reason when I started to comment it brought back those personal memories and I just decided to go with it in fact I did not even think my comment would be approved because it had absolutely nothing to do with the article and that is what I get for my assumption. I wish I could take it back, but it is out there forever. I promise never to share anything personal again. I had no idea it would lead to so many personal attacks, I assumed from previous experience that the majority of people commenting were quite intelligent and mature, therefore, capable of remaining objective, for the most part. Was I wrong?

  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 6:45 p.m.


    Normality of behavior does not justify it. It may be normal for mobs to attack people they hate. Does that make it okay to you?

    You ARE trying to make your views into law. You approve of homosexual behavior, so you want to change marriage so that we all must approve of it.

    It is a tiresome lie that equal protection cannot be achieved unless we redefine marriage.

    The government currently allows homosexual behavior to occur, but does not make any judgment as to whether it is wrong or not. That is how it should be. Government approval of gay marriage, however, inescapably makes the judgment that homosexual behavior IS OFFICIALLY CONDONED and APPROVED. It is a moral judgment that ignores and tramples on the views of millions of people.

    Your absurd claim that religions implicitly approve of violence against sinners is a joke. Not only is homosexuality hardly even mentioned in most churches, but shouldnt they also be beating up gamblers, drinkers, addicts, and people who work on Sunday? Give it up.

    Am I treating my kids badly when I don't let them have something that does not belong to them? Such is life.

  • WhereIsTheLove SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 6:29 p.m.

    There's not much of a point of arguing with the LGBT community or the LDS community on matters such as this. But I'm glad the LDS community appear to be outraged too.

    A story like this breaks my heart and I can only hope that this incident can lead to better understanding in the future and be a movement forward.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:52 p.m.

    Why would someone in utah 'choose' to be gay?

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:48 p.m.


    You and other frequenters on here will know my views, so no need to recap. But with as much as I defend anything coming from the Church, or defend the idea of not blaming the church, etc. With that in mind, even I'll stand behind saying "So... why are we making this a 'Mormon' issue?".

    Just fyi, I made a suggestion to the D.N. staff to have expandable comment reply sections where if someone says "Mormons..." on a page that many will think unrelated (like this one), we'd at least have the option to keep comments on that 'off topic' in it's own place. Some people seem to even think that Mormonism and French Mustard are related. This would allow for the vast majority to make productive comments, and those who let conversations wander to enjoy their side issues.

    I got a reply that seemed receptive to the idea and a couple others I presented. Obviously things aren't changed overnight (as I wrote this in July) but hopefully we'll eventually see some improvements.

    We've all probably gone off on our own little ideas that weren't entirely related- I just wanted to let you know about my suggestion.

  • Clifton Palmer McLendon Gilmer, Texas
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    Trying to designate anything as a "hate crime" is just a way for some crybaby group to get special treatment.

    Maiming a person is wrong, whether he is a member of some so-called "disadvantaged group" or just some otherwise undistinguished individual.

  • ignoranceisbliss Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:58 p.m.

    It is too bad not everyone can be like you, right? I made it through and it made me a stronger person. I was just trying to point out that there is a lot of intolerance in this state and it is a shame. Please do not presume that I go around placing blame where it does not belong because of my sad story. I have not actually shared what had happened to me as a child growing up and it felt good to get it out.

    Sept. 2, 2011 4:50 p.m.


    The "behavior" you see as "unacceptable" is NORMAL. Normal for both straight and gay people. LOVE.

    I view organized religion as unacceptable and shouldn't have government acceptance. Should my views be made into law?

    Seeking to enact legislation that denies equal protection to glbt families is in fact punishing glbt families.

    What is really sad is that you can't see that and think that we have it backwards.

    Allowing GLBT couples to marry, in NO WAY creates legislation to "override their religious values". Religious people are still allowed to NOT enter into a same sex marriage. All it does it provides the same legal protections to GLBT couples that straight couples already enjoy.

    When religions preach that homosexuals are "abominations", "sinners", "destined for hell", etc. They automatically give their congregants permission to treat homosexuals badly. This is implicit in the message. It doesn't even have to be stated out loud.

    When religions go out and campaign to restrict, or remove the liberties of homosexuals, they are treating homosexuals badly. I'm amazed that you don't see that.

    And then we wonder how anyone can go out and bash some guys face into the gutter because he's gay?


  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:25 p.m.

    @Baccus0902 and @Ranch

    You both have it SO backwards. The LDS Church is not seeking legislation to push their religious values on gays. On the contrary, they are seeking to stop legislation from being created to override their religious values. They are not seeking legislation to punish LGTB people who hold marital ceremonies. They are not trying to force LBGT people into accepting LDS doctrine. They are seeking to stop legislation from establishing LGTB values as government--sanctioned values.

    How can you say that the government SHOULD NOT BE allowed to make laws AGAINST behavior that a religious group views as unacceptable, and then say the government SHOULD BE allowed to make laws IN FAVOR OF behavior that the LGTB views as acceptable? This is not equality. It is attempting to favor a non-religious group's beliefs over many religious group's beliefs. Legalized gay marriage is IN FAVOR OF the behavior that consummates the gay marriage.

  • Dustyredcliffs Saint George, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:21 p.m.

    This is not exceptable These Thugs Need To Be In JAIL.

  • smithda Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:08 p.m.

    I hear so much blame. I am LDS, but nearly half my friends are not LDS. The truth is their is wrong on both sides. On my mission I was threatened multiple times by people, including those from the homosexual community with violence including one gay man threatening to stab me with a screw driver. What I took from it, that unfortunately he had a bad experience with either religion or the LDS church. I don't use that as a reason to hate him or any body else of another religion, view, gender, etc. Yes, there are LDS people who judge to harshly and tend to choose to not associate with with non-mormons. But I know just as many incidences both personal and through friends where non-mormons have been just as judgmental and sometimes hateful (as we see in some of the comments). The fact is that the church does preach against such violence, but the bigger truth is that as human beings we should not need a church or anyone else to teach us that it's ok to disagree, but it's not ok to openly and directly harm someone else in the process.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    I wouldn't consider night clubs as safe. Especially at night.

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    Sept. 2, 2011 3:54 p.m.

    No State needs special hate crime laws,however, if justice is served the person or people who beat this guy this badly should go to jail for a very long time. Its not that more laws are needed its the laws on the books that need to be enforced. Gay or Straight the victim in this case deserves justice, send whoever is sick enough to beat their fellow man up like this to jail for a very long time.

    Sept. 2, 2011 3:13 p.m.


    Classic "Blame the Victim". Tell me, do you advertise your own sexuality at all? Do you wear a wedding ring or have photos of your family on your desk? Think about it. Seriously. You probably advertise your "persuasion" a thousand times a day and don't even think about it. Why should GLBT people have to live in a closet?


    Desiring to join the "club" isn't an attack.


    Expert on sexual orientation are you? I did NOT choose to be gay. I simply AM.

    RAB says:

    "...the LDS Church fully tolerates and accepts homosexuals ...but does not want the government to stamp its official approval on it."


    Frankly it is none of their business. The Constitution GUARANTEES Equal Protection to ALL American Citizens, REGARDLESS what ANY church thinks about the issue.

    As many others have pointed out, why do people think it is okay to do something like this? A big part of the reason is that they've been taught that it is OKAY to dislike others. Constantly harping on how "evil" some people are creates an atmosphere of intolerance for those people and is subtle approval of actions like those for which caused this article.

  • krudd Turlock, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 3:10 p.m.

    PLEASE PLEASE....this poor man was hurt by bad people, but who says anything about them being Mormon. Last conference we were asked to not Bully treat gays badly. Why does this have to be about Mormons? It's about a man who had every right to be where he wanted to be and he was brutally attacked.
    I live where there are a lot of German Baptist. They dress differently and are different....yet, I don't hear when a gay person is attacked " Oh it must be those German Baptist".
    I bet it was just someone who has hatred in his heart for a lot of people. Don't make this into a Mormon/Gay thing unless you have proof. And if it is a know he will get into trouble with the law, and that happens, you get ex'd for something like this.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 3:01 p.m.

    Consideration of underlying motives have long been taken into account in our system of justice.

    Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote that increasing or decreasing a sentence based on the assailant's motive is common in the law, and although a person's abstract beliefs may not be taken into consideration in sentencing, racial animus or other prejudice can be considered if they are relevant aggravating factors. Furthermore, Justice Rehnquist wrote, enhanced penalties are appropriate for bias-inspired conduct because it "is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm," such as the greater possibility for retaliatory violence, emotional damage to the victim and community unrest.

    Sorry, but I disagree. The prop 8 campaign was anything BUT loving, accepting or positive. As a life-long LDS hetero member I was shocked by the negativity employed in the campaign, hugely disappointed and deeply saddened that our church would be involved in such a campaign. Though I fully expected the Church to take a stance I was astounded at the negativity and demonization the campaign used.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Sept. 2, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    Quote KM "Straight community angered by gays attacking the institution of marriage and the family. They call it a hate crime. "

    Are the mean gays breaking into your house and making your argue with your wife? Did they make you get a divorce?

    Amazing talent you have to deflect responsibility for your own house.

    Sept. 2, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    Quayle | 7:05 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011

    Here is what the Mormon church teaches, so we're all clear:

    1. The purpose of our life is to experience a very broad range of circumstances, urges, emotions, events, thoughts, and desires so that we can learn to distinguish between the bitter and the sweet.

    2. Sin is essentially doing those things that don't lead to the greatest personal growth as a person. Therefore, more than anything, sin is delay.

    3. But every single person is going to willfully sin. There isn't one person, not even an Apostle (as they will well tell you) that hasn't sinned.

    4. And sin can be erased by the Lord in an instance, so it isn't an indelible trait.

    I don't see anything in the above that separates out or denigrates gays or any person that sins.


    The presumptive assumption of your entire comment, Quayle, is that Gays "sin" being gay and doing what leads to their own greatest personal growth. (Love the sinner, not the sin).

    As long as that is the underlying presumption, the bias we're trying to eliminate will continue.

    There is absolutely Nothing wrong with GLBT living a GLBT life.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    Oh, my God.

    This is my final post, so I'm sure the barrage of questions will follow however...

    no one is saying an LDS person did this. I am regarded as a Mormon 'hater' by many on these boards, and I have never once made that claim or implication.

    Go ahead, quote me.

    Now, instead of focusing on the CRIME, people are tripping over themselves trying to place, blame.

    The motivations could be any number of things. I am NOT trying to place blame.

    I AM however, trying to point out, that this man, was ATTACKED. His jaw and cheek bone, broken.

    And he is now missing six teeth.

    The MOTIVATION behind this case, will be revealed in the dueness of time.

    But majority of the post's on this page say one thing:

    "It wasn't a Mormon."

    And not:

    'How can we help the victim?'

    Focus, on the victim.

    Don't try to BE, the victim.

    I hope you all have a good weekend. And will some of you start CARING about your fellow human beings, please.

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    Jeffry Wilbur, are you seriously implying that Mormons did this to this poor young man? You do realize that SL County is hovering around 50% LDS population right, so that alone gives you only a 50/50 chance. Of that 50% you can take out the old, young, and women, from both sides as this was a crime done by young adult males. Add in the fact that most mormons don't spend a lot of time in bars and clubs (i realize some do, but most don't) and that brings the numbers down even more. Then, my favorite, "jack mormons" or mormons in name only who don't live by church standards or teachings would also account for some of that 50% LDS population. It doesn't take a degree in Stats to see that it's quite possible that the sick individuals who did this heinous act were not practicing LDS. Quit being bigoted.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 1:55 p.m.

    So why is a criminal attack on a person worse if it is motivated by "hate" as opposed to greed, lust, stupidity, mistaken identity or some other factor?

    None should be tolerated, and all punished equally.

    Or, are some people "more eqaul than others?"

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 1:52 p.m.

    '...caught & prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law but NO HATE CRIME after all CRIME IS HATE.' - A_Zion_State_O'Mind | 1:12 p.m. Sept. 2, 2011

    How many examples do I have to give?

    Matthew Sheppard. Pistol whipped to death 10/22/09.
    Initial charges? Burglary.
    THEN murder.

    Harvey Milk. Shot and killed on 11/27/78 By Daniel White.
    Charges? Manslaughter.
    Not murder.

    The murder of Gwen Araujo. 10/03/02. After discovering Gwen was a man, she was killed by four men, I believe with, a can of food.
    Initial case? Deadlock.
    SECOND case? Murder.

    David James (DJ) Bell. Attacked in his home in 2008, initial charges? DJ Bell!
    AFTER he spent $100,000 to get aquited...

    assualt and 'incite to riot.'

    Here are not one, two, but THREE examples where the legal system fails LGBT persons. If we are not the assailant, we at LEAST need two trials to get justice.

    Hate crime exist's:

    'A crime where the fed's can get involved (sic) the crimes committed are intended, not only, to hurt or murder an individual but to terrorize an entire community.' - Rachel Maddow.

    So too, must it's punishement.

  • BP Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 1:45 p.m.

    How messed up do you have to be to curb someone?

  • A_Zion_State_O'Mind FAIR OAKS, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 1:12 p.m.

    HATE CRIME LAW? ISN'T ASSULT MAYHEM LAWS ENOUGH HATE? I hope this man heals in all ways & I hope that those responsible are caught & prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law but NO HATE CRIME after all CRIME IS HATE. I live in California where Mormons have been treat almost as bad as this but is that a hate crime? The gays HATE the LDS Church & they vandelize our temples & meeting houses, they drive good people from their jobs because they contributed to Prop 8, how about HATE CRIME ENFORCEMENT THERE? See how there is no end to this "HATE CRIME LAW" movement? Live & let live.

  • JasonH84 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    For all you who choose to fight and argue against each other about religious beliefs, you disgust me! Read this article, look at the pictures, and direct your anger against those who put this kid's mouth against the curb. To spend time and comment space on anything other than trying to do something about this hate crime is absolutely silly. If we cannot agree that these kinds of crimes should not occur in our community for any reason, we are lost.

    It's ok to be outraged, it's ok to be angry, it's ok to even be fearful, but let's get together on this and insist that it doesn't happen again instead of pointing fingers at institutions.

    If anything, we should be outraged that this story is only getting out a week after the incident. Where were the news agencies on this? Why have the police so silent on this? Why have I been watching news stories about stray kittens instead of getting this as the leading story all week?

  • catcrazed Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:39 p.m.

    This is totally uncalled for. I pray that those who think violence solves ANYTHING would think twice before doing anything so dispicable. God bless the young men who were attacked. Let's protect our neighbors, no matter what.

  • est061985 SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:23 p.m.

    I can't believe how quickly people jump to Mormon bashing. Does the article say anything about the perpetrators being Mormon, or even Christian for that matter?
    No reasonable person would ever think it is okay to do what was done to this guy. Just because the predominate religion in the state happens to be Mormon (less than 50%, of which, less than half are active), it does not mean they had anything to do with the actions of those men, and you are incredibly unreasonable to believe otherwise. Even if it was a group of Mormon Missionaries that jumped this guy, It would be the actions of "men" and would have absolutely nothing to do with the church. The LDS faith teaches nothing but love. You can't label someone a bigot just because they do not wholeheartedly embrace a certain lifestyle.

    It is Pathetic that a comment like mine even has a need on a comment board for article about a tragedy such as this one.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:13 p.m.


    Why do you relate a nightclub to the non-alcolic Mormon Church? Salt Lake City have many non-Mormons who have moved in from other states.

  • Alpine Blue Alpine, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:07 p.m.

    @ utahboni 7:38 am

    After forty plus years of membership in the LDS Church to include many positions of leadership, I have yet to hear one word of rant or hate against the LBGT community. Not a single word! Some of you will point to our support of Prop 8 in California and call it hatred and bigotry. Nothing could be further from the truth-as Prop 8 did not declare any negative thing against gays, but was only a defense of traditional marriage.

    For one, I am sick of being labeled a hater and a bigot-when it is absolutely not true. Speaking for myself and the overwhelming majority of my co-religionists, we have nothing but love and compassion for our LBGT brothers and sisters. Not an iota of hatred or bigotry.

    Interestingly, it is the haters/bigots like so many on this board that are the ones making these accusations.

    The crime against Mr. Hall in Salt Lake is a crime against humanity and we all condemn it. But, it similar to crimes that occur on a daily basis in almost every major city in the world. To try and make it a Mormon issue is disengenuous.

  • freddysheddy Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    The fact that anyone thinks comment boards are a place for dialouge of this kind is ridiculous. Has anyone ever had their mind's changed by reading a comment on a board like this? I haven't. People who post--including me--are closed minded and unwilling to view other people's points of view. Comments are intended to get other people to think your way, and no one is ever convinced. If you really want to get people to listen and understand there needs to be more effort than typing for one minute to people whose names aren't known and whose identity, face and real life situation are unimportant. Get out and meet people. Both sides of the coin need this.

    The greatest irony. No one is going to change because of my post. Why am I typing this... Because I am bored at work and have nothing else to do. So why not.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    @@Charles 11:50

    You wrote:

    "Those who bring the LDS church into this debate are shallow, ignorant and unwittingly bigoted"

    Just as those people who believe that "Homosexuality is nothing special or sacred. It's a chosen behavior that some people in society have decided to engage in"

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:58 a.m.

    What ever happened to Love Thy Neighbor?

  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    @Mike W,
    Respectfully, you are wrong. Attitudes about homosexuality do not lead to violence. Only attitudes about violence lead to violence. Intolerance, ignorance, lack of compassion, a propensity to be violent, and (usually) a mob mentality, are what lead to violence. The LDS Church neither tolerates nor approves of such violence.

    Whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, the LDS Church fully tolerates and accepts homosexuals. They simply do not, and will not, APPROVE of homosexuality. The Church likewise wants government to accept and tolerate homosexuality, but does not want the government to stamp its official approval on it. Acceptance and tolerance are not the same as condoning or approving. Any LDS church members who show a lack of tolerance or acceptance of homosexuals are behaving in opposition to their own church's doctrines.


    You are merely proving that calling a crime a 'hate crime' makes no difference. Perpetrators of acts of violence should be severely punished regardless of what they were feeling at the time.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:53 a.m.

    @DanO 11:01 - I am good friends with three LDS married couples who are bi-racial. Currently, one couple lives in Logan, one lives in Orem and one lives near the U of U campus. (yes, they're all college students, one the wife is black, the other two the husband is)

    I've asked all three at different times if they have ever been shunned or ignored in their respective wards because of their mixed race relationship. Only the couple in Logan, where the wife is black, say its been an issue and its been minimal at that.

    I really believe it depends on the ward and neighborhood. I would love to say all LDS people would embrace bi-racial couples, but sadly we're not there yet.

    By the way, I may be LDS but I can't stand Glenn Beck.

    @windsor 11:00

    You said - "There CAN BE no fear if no one knows of your alternate lifestyle."

    Sorry, but this is not a very good attitude. I have a gay co-worker who brings his partner to work related parties. Should we tell him to keep his partner at home?

    No one should live in fear, period.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:50 a.m.

    ---- There is that watered-down enough for you?

    There was a horrible crime committed against this man. It's not to be condoned and those who did this should be caught and punished.

    There is no such thing as a hate crime purported on homosexuals. A crime is a crime is a crime. The motivation behind the crime is always the same - to inflict harm on another person.

    Homosexuality is nothing special or sacred. It's a chosen behavior that some people in society have decided to engage in.

    Those who bring the LDS church into this debate are shallow, ignorant and unwittingly bigoted.

    Those who complain about posts not getting through the sensitive censors at the Dnews all I can say is welcome to the party!

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:35 a.m.

    @ RAB 10:31
    You wrote: "The Prop 8 fight was a fight against government APPROVAL of (not just acceptance of) homosexual intimate behavior. Anyone attempting to make more of it that that, is a hypocrite"

    Isn't that bad enough for you?

    What business have the LDS, Catholic,Evangelical churches and Muslims to influence legislation because of their religious values? Isn't that a conflict with their political neutrality?

    All LDS, Catholic, Evangelical, Muslims "people", have the right to vote "their" minds.

    What happened in California as in Hawaii is that churches "as organizations" promoted a political bias.

    About gays being "anti-Mormons". Gays don't hate Mormons they hate the sin of bigotry.

    Who really hate Mormons are some self-proclaimed Christians who see Joseph Smith as a false prophet and charlatan dedicated to distort the teachings of Christ.

    If you check the history of the church, no gay person was ever accused of participating in a mob against the saints.

    GLBT people are usually reacting to negative attacks against them. Curiously, then the attackers claim to be the victims.

    Violence and bigotry from and against LDS or GLBT or anybody else are equally wrong.

  • isrred Logan, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    "There CAN BE no fear if no one knows of your alternate lifestyle"

    I have no "alternate lifestyle". I have one lifestyle. My lifestyle. And I would venture it is pretty similar to the "lifestyle" of 99% of the rest of my peers. Go to school, go to work, do homework, enjoy some sort of relaxation and recreation, try to stretch a food budget in a down economy, etc. The only difference is that I aspire to sharing and spending my life with someone that some in society don't approve of. Being gay and being straight are not "lifestyles" they are part of a person's divine nature.

  • Mike W Syracuse, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:24 a.m.

    "NOPE. My answer was simple. There CAN BE no fear if no one knows of your alternate lifestyle"

    WOW! What a happy way to go thru life! It's not enough that gays cannot have equal marriage rights, but according to your plan they shouldn't even show themselves together in public? Yeah, that'll do wonders for depression and suicide rates! How would you like it if you had to live hiding your love for your spouse for fear of being beaten, ridiculed or even killed? Doesn't seem a verry happy life does it?

    I'll say it again... since NEITHER side, science or religion, can prove their beliefs, why judge people based on what you cannot prove?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:23 a.m.


    "I find it interesting some of the people in here are so tolerant of religion when it includes acceptance of gays but so critical and ready to shut down religion, Mormonism in particular, at all turns. "

    I find it interesting that you immediately follow this up with an attack on atheists (I'll avoid arguing that since this might be my last comment, so I'll just note that death tolls are higher now because the world population is higher, so eliminating 10% of a population of a nation has a much higher body count now than it would if done in the 1500s while being equivalent in terms of proportion of population lost).

    "This shouldn't be called a hate crime."

    A hate crime not merely seeks to harm an individual but also seeks to strike fear into a particular community. Similarly, if some thugs beat up mormon missionaries and made threatening remarks about "their kind being here"... that would be a hate crime.

    "There CAN BE no fear if no one knows of your alternate lifestyle"

    There is fear with that approach, fear of being open about who you are is what you are prescribing.

  • CottageCheese SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    I don't care who ya are or what ya say. The history and future of the human race has wholey and entirely depended upon heterosexual relationships. Any thing else widely practiced would have been and will be a detriment to society. Can you argue?

    Thank a MAN and a WOMAN for your life and existence.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:09 a.m.

    I did not say self-professed Christians", I said practicing Christians. There is a difference.

  • Ridgely Magna, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:09 a.m.

    Basic Criminology/Crime Triangle theory:
    Crime occurs where the perpetrators perceive a weak victim/easy target; at a location where there are no natural guardians or bystanders to interrupt the crime; and where the criminals perceive the opportunity risks are low (i.e. nobody cares about gays anyway, so why not...).

    If there were two separate incidents of violence, then this wasn't basic criminal opportunity. It was planned.

  • goitalone w bountiful, ut
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:06 a.m.

    @ ignoranceisbliss:

    You give no specifics for your hateful rhetoric toward the LDS church. I do not doubt that you had experiences you found painful. People are capable of some pretty ugly behavior, but there are two sides to every story and suspect that is the same with yours.

    It is easy to blame a whole segment of society for the actions of individuals, but your blanket accusations of the Mormons doesn't ring true.

    As for you Mormons who blindly ignore and glibly rebuff your mon-mormon neighbors, take these comments as a wakeup call. If by their fruits they shall be known, some of us need pruning and purging.

  • whatnext Clearfield, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:04 a.m.

    I am a proud member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and as such I get tired of being put in the same catagory as those individuals who take it upon themselves to perform these terrible acts of vilonce towards another human being. I don't know of or heard of any doctrine or teaching by the LDS church or its leaders that would condone or approve of this type of behavior. Yes there might be individuals in this church that feel haterid towards another group, race, gender, or sexual oreintation, and some of them might even act upon those feelings, but that does not mean that members of the LDS religion Or any other religion should be put in the same catigory as those few individuals who act upon their hatred. We are all Gods children and he expect all of us to treat eachother with respect, diginty, and kindness. I think one of the best ways to stop all this hatered is to stop labeling ourselves. It does not matter if we are black, white, purple, heterolsexal, gay, chinnese, american, mexican, or anything eles. We are all human and should treat eachother that way.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    When you relegate a class of people as second class citizens, you devalue them and people think less of them as humans. Glenn Beck even came out and said it on air once regarding DADT. He said if we allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly it would "humanize them".. his words. When people think of others as less than human, it allows them to justify this violence. Instead of jumping so quick to a defensive position, step back and see how your actions might help promote this. I grow tired of people who don't know me telling me a trait that is part of me is merely a behavior and a sinful one. You don't know me, you haven't walked in my shoes, how do you know? Because someone told you tho think that way. I grew up in a very LDS ward in West Valley that happened to have a mixed-race couple living in it. No one except those of us in the immediate vicinity (maybe four homes) would even associate with them. Please, it's time to make a change.

  • windsor City, Ut
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    @ alt134 8:57 a.m. Sept. 2, 2011--

    "So your answer is for gay people to live their lives in fear?"

    NOPE. My answer was simple. There CAN BE no fear if no one knows of your alternate lifestyle

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    Brave Sir Robin:

    When you lie with dogs (anti-gay groups) you get up with fleas.

    Fair, maybe not but life isn't fair.

    "I find it interesting some of the people in here are so tolerant of religion when it includes acceptance of gays but so critical and ready to shut down religion, Mormonism in particular, at all turns."

    Criticism is not the same as 'shutting down' religion. You have freedom to spend your Sunday anyway you like however that doesn't you are free from criticism.

  • goitalone w bountiful, ut
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    That's right Mr. Wilbur,

    attack the Mormons for this incident. Your rhetoric against the "prdominant religion" is not different than the rhetoric you condemn. As a Mormon, I find it absolutely repulsive that anyone of any persuasion should be attacked as this man was, but the LDS church was not in any way connected with it.
    Just because the LDS position on same gender attraction differs with yours, would you also be the first in line to "curb" one of them if given the chance? I wonder.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    'We don't need a hate crime bill...' - timcharper | 10:26 a.m. Sept. 2, 2011

    Maybe you don't.

    But LGBT people do.

    Report: Gay bias killings highest since 1999 MSN 06/16/09

    A 30% increase in gay hate crimes...NATIONALLY. This is not local or state wide. This is across our country.

    Evidence, again:

    *Calif. Teen faces trail in gay classmate killing - By Greg Risling AP - Published by DSNews- 07/05/11

    LOS ANGELES A Southern California teen driven by white supremacist beliefs executed a gay classmate at a junior high school with two gunshots to the back of his head

    Two gunshots to the back of the head.

    Result to date?

    *Mistrail declared in CA gay student killing By Thomas Watkins AP Published By DSNews 09/01/11

    LOS ANGELES A judge on Thursday declared a mistrial in the case of California teen who shot a gay classmate in the back of the head


  • Mike W Syracuse, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    Re: MsW. "Jesus Christ spoke volumes about homosexuality from the beginning when he created Adam and Eve , not Adam and Steve."

    This is EXACTLY the kind of attitude that leads to violence like this... and EXACTLY why religion does deserve a significant part of the blame for this. People who think this way raise their kids with the same narrow-minded, naive beliefs. Why not teach both sides? Maybe we were created, maybe we evolved - either way it cannot be proven! Question MsW- So are hundreds of animal species that exhibit homosexual behavior also making a blatant choice to sin? Or are they born that way? It seems pretty good evidence to me of genetics at work. You cannot prove one bit that God created us, so once again, to come on here so blatantly pretending you know everything about how life began is downright arrogant and insulting.

    I hope this guy recovers as soon as possible and these cowards who did this (6 against 1? Yeah, cowards) are quickly caught and put in jail.

  • RAB Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:31 a.m.

    Reading some of these posts, you would think the man was beaten by a couple of Mormon missionaries. I must have missed the press release from the LDS Church condoning the attack.

    Needless to say, these shameful attempts to spin an abhorrent and tragic criminal act into a diatribe against the LDS Church are laughable. The LDS Church condemns such cruelty and violence with MORE fervency than they discourage homosexual intimate behavior. If anyone tried to make a law condoning such violence against gays, rest assured, the LDS Church would be on the front lines fighting against it.

    It is in fact, divisive for the Deseret News to even label this article Gay Community Angered by Attack as if the rest of us are somehow okay with it. There is not a decent human being on this planet who would not be angered by that attack.

    The Prop 8 fight was a fight against government APPROVAL of (not just acceptance of) homosexual intimate behavior. Anyone attempting to make more of it that that, is a hypocrite. They are exposing their own pitiful bigotry against Mormons while at the same time condemning and accusing them of bigotry.

  • timcharper Saratoga Springs, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:26 a.m.

    We don't need a hate crime bill, what those folks did to this fellow is against the law, irregardless of their motives. Dane, I'll be making a donation. Hopefully you get enough help with your medical bills. I'm so sorry man.

    And everyone who says this is a sign that America is intolerant, don't give the idiots who did this pleasure of being thought of as American. This is as un-American as it gets. This is the sort of stuff that we have no place for in our country.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:25 a.m.


    I wasn't aware that Prop 8 said it was OK to assault and curbstomp gay people.

    Advocating against gay marriage is not the same as advocating violence against gay people. Gay rights advocates always want to make that connection, but it is simply not there. Open your mind, don't be bigoted against religious people.

  • omahahusker Modesto, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:20 a.m.

    This shouldn't be called a hate crime. Treat it as it is - Assault and Battery. It was done by a bunch of Rednecks or Street Crime Bullies and Thugs. With the vast amount of street video cameras, the perpetrators need to be caught and given swift justice. Hope the victim recovers quickly, Shame on the bullies. By the way the LDS church had nothing to do with this, it could have happened in any city in the USA.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    The article states that this crime was committed by a group of straight-edge guys. I know two straight edgers and they are both anti-mormon. If you think these two groups are related in any way, you have a serious misunderstanding of one or the other.

    I don't care what the victims sexual orientation is: anyone who curb-checks another human being forfeits their right to be a part of society, in my opinion. They should be locked up until they're too old to walk.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    The LDS church is not guiltier than other religions in promoting a negative image of homosexuality. This horrible and sad case is not unique to Utah, on the contrary, it is repeated across the United States and many parts of the world.

    Do this statement excuses the LDS church? No, it does not.

    Comments like the ones by Quayle, Windsor, Voice of Reason, not only tend to mitigate the fault of the attacker, but shift blame to the victim. They remind me of Saul of Tarsus, who participated in the stoning of Stephen believing he was doing God's work. Fortunately for him Christ had mercy and he became Saint Paul.

    If you believe homosexuality is a sin. By all means, do not practice it. But don't judge and condemn others.

    If we see unjust harm of any kind inflicted upon other. As Christians or ethical beings, we have the obligation to intervene and prevent that violent act.

    I wonder, how the love of two people of the same sex causes any harm to others?

  • Castlepath South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:48 a.m.


    I find it interesting some of the people in here are so tolerant of religion when it includes acceptance of gays but so critical and ready to shut down religion, Mormonism in particular, at all turns.

    When you remove and persecute religion, the true bloodbaths of history begin. The crusades, inquisition and witch hunts, are no where in scale when compared to the crimes of the Godless; Stalin, Polpot, Hitler, Mao.

  • Red Smith American Fork, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    All crime is hate based.

    If you get hit in head with a bat because of your skin color that is hate based.

    If you get hit in the head with a bat because you have money, that is hate based.

    If you get hit in the head with a bat because you have a different point of view, that is hate based.

    Assault and battery is hate based.

    Love does not generate crime. Hate does. It would be nice if folks would stop the hate, but that is a one person by one person issue.

    Laws can't stop hate no more than they can stop love.

    We don't need more laws, we need better people.

  • Ms.W South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:33 a.m.

    "If you're going off of Jesus' new higher law, what did Jesus EVER say about homosexuality? Nothing. Nada."

    Jesus Christ spoke volumes about homosexuality from the beginning when he created Adam and Eve , not Adam and Steve.

  • John20000 Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:31 a.m.

    Love the sinner, despise sin.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    "Why is everybody bashing Mormons over this incident? It was a bunch of straight-edgers who assaulted this man, not a bunch of Mormons."

    Because the Mormon church has a well documented, public, organized, well-funded dislike of and discrimination against gays (Prop 8).

  • John20000 Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    @isrred: I believe you are mislead to think Jesus said nothing about homosexuality (please keep in mind that the word homosexual was first used in 1880's.)

    Matt 19:3-9 Jesus commands man to leave his father and mother and cleave unto a wife.

    Titus 2:4-12 Jesus (through Paul) commands women to love their husbands and children.

    1 Corinthians 7:2-5 Jesus (through Paul) commands man to have a wife and woman to have a husband.

    Ephesians 5:28 Jesus (through Paul) commands men to love their wives.

    Also, if you categorize homosexuality into the scriptural word "fornication", there are many places in the New Testament where Jesus commands us not to fornicate.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    @isrred, you can of course make whatever claims you want, but doing so won't make your misunderstandings doctrine. Jesus' mission was not to spell out every jot and tittle of the law but to help people understand what was important: loving God (including following His commandments) and loving others. Nowhere did Christ justify or authorize homosexuality, and subsequent New Testament authors continued to condemn it. But Christ preached very clearly against violence and ill will toward others.

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:24 a.m.

    anka | 7:52 a.m. Sept. 2, 2011
    Provo, UT
    You can see in these comments the latent hostility and hatred of gays by religious people. Denying there is a connection is not only naive, but disingenuous.

    No, you are incorrect. Such a statement borders on arrogant. And is most certainly disingenuous. What I do see, however, is a continuation of an ongoing prejudice against 'the major religion in the state' by those crying out for tolerance and respect. Please identify ANY comment by ANY authority of the LDS church that promotes anything but tolerance and acceptance of the LGBT community. Perhaps part of the problem, anka, is that you are predisposed to seeing 'latent hostility and hatred of gays' around every corner. Just because I may be religious, and am not gay, does not mean I 'hate' gays. I don't drink, either, but I don't hate people who do.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    @VANKA.....what I see is hate and intolerance on the part of gays for religious Garff, Kiss-ins and the comments of gays in this thread...

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:03 a.m.

    "This horrible act has nothing to do with religion, but rather lack thereof."

    New Hampshire has the lowest crime rates in America while having the highest rates of people being atheist. For you to imply that atheism causes violence is bigoted.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    @lost in DC
    "Where do you get the idea these acts were perpetrated by practicing Christians? Its impossible."

    Now we don't know what the religious status of these four are largely because we don't even know who they are yet so I won't make assumptions, but to say it's impossible is just wrong. That's a No True Scotsman logical fallacy.

  • Clarissa Layton, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    This is a horrible crime. I find it disgusting and hope the people who did this are identified and punished. isrred said that Jesus doesn't mention homosexually in the Bible. He does talk about sexual sin:

    Matthew 15:18-19:

    18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

    19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    DeseretNews: what is wrong with the following comments? There are people on this board loosely connecting the LDS Church with the perpetrators of this crime. I am only trying to point out that fallacy of those comments.

    It really irritates me when we take the time out of busy schedules to comment on the DN articles, and because of inconsistent comment filtering it is entirely unpredictable what goes through and what doesn't. With that, I am DONE commenting on the DN if comment filtering is not more consistent! YOUR loss, NOT mine!!!!!!


    Where is the evidence that the perpetrators of this horrible crime are LDS or are influenced by LDS teachings?

    They could be anti-Mormons for all we know.

    In other words: we don't know. Stop stereo-typing the perpetrators. They are losers and deserve to be locked up for a long time, regardless of what religion they have (or don't have).

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 8:57 a.m.


    "It seemed that there was so much less of this type of violence back in a time when those of a different persuasion didn't insist on others knowing of that persuasion.

    That seems like a sensible answer: Don't broadcast and insist that others know of and/or accept your alternate lifestyle. "

    So your answer is for gay people to live their lives in fear? that's not much of a solution...

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    Jeffrey Wilbur | 6:17 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011
    This horrible act has nothing to do with religion, but rather lack thereof. Some people take this incident as an excuse to rail on the LDS Church, another form of hate crime.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 8:53 a.m.

    Straight community angered by gays attacking the institution of marriage and the family. They call it a hate crime.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 8:49 a.m.

    First and foremost, what happened to this young man and the others cited in the story is reprehensible and needs to stop. The neanderthals (apologies to the TV commercial cave men) who did this need to be locked up for a loooong time.


    Jeffrey Wilbur
    It's the very reason the very first step in propaganda is to paint your enemy as being as evil as possible, to reduce them to a subhuman categorization. You mean the way the dems and MSM talks about the tea party?

    Where do you get the idea these acts were perpetrated by practicing Christians? Its impossible.

    Semper Fidelis,
    There are many who need no excuse to take pot-shots at the LDS church.

    I would suspect the story was not reported previously because the DN knew the response would be major Mormon bashing. There are those who will continue to bash the church no matter what.

  • Kdee SLC, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 8:46 a.m.

    @ utahboni: You need to go back and re-read my post - we are on the same side.

    @ ClarkHippo: That is one of the benefits of becoming ever more civilized - these types of things become less and less acceptable. Every time an attack like this occurs and is publicized, the acceptability of such attacks is reduced. The brutality strikes a cord of shame in many of us and causes us to vow to fight against it.

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Sept. 2, 2011 8:29 a.m.

    r.e. isrred | 7:39 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011: I wonder how you can assume that because I read and believe the Bible is inspired, that I "DO believe in such violence." How do you know what I get out of the Bible when I prayerfully read it? Because of errors in transcription and translation, what we have in the Bible is not a perfect nor complete record so we must "pick and choose" carefully and prayerfully. Some Biblical messages are clearer than others (i.e. Gods condemnation of sexual perversion). When it comes to ancient scripture, we have just a few pieces of a much larger puzzle and those pieces must be carefully and prayerfully examined. There is much to be learned from the Bible, but to assume that I hate gays because I believe the Bible is inspired is to assume that you know what I know better than I know what I know.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Sept. 2, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    Why is everybody bashing Mormons over this incident? It was a bunch of straight-edgers who assaulted this man, not a bunch of Mormons.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:52 a.m.

    You can see in these comments the latent hostility and hatred of gays by religious people. Denying there is a connection is not only naive, but disingenuous.

  • NWCL INDP Murray, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:42 a.m.

    "Advocates of the gay and lesbian community in Salt Lake City say the violence against gay people has to stop."

    The title should be changed to "Most people in and around the Salt Lake City community say violence against gay people has to stop." It is a shame that this incident isn't more published and condemned.

  • utahboni Ogden, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:38 a.m.

    Kdee, seriously, can you site even one case of someone being beaten up for being heterosexual? The kind of hate you are talking about always comes from somewhere. It doesn't spring up suddenly like weeds in the sidewalk. The holocaust was caused by Hitler ranting against Jews. Hitler was ranting because he had an agenda.

    The evangelical community constantly demonizes and rants against gay people. Like Hitler, they obviously have an agenda. This kind of hate ranting generates fear and anger. Fear and anger generate violence. Everyone in a position of power knows this. Machiavelli wrote about this 550 years ago.

    I have quite a few gay friends and I have never heard even one rant against heterosexuals the way I've heard deeply religious Christians rant against gays nearly every single day. Even naming the Anti-Gay Marriage Act the Defense of Marriage Act puts the faithful on notice that they need to go on the defense. Proclaiming a need for defense implies the unstated concept of an enemy storming the gate.

    If Christians and Mormans are offended by this simple statement of truth, clean up your house.

  • isrred Logan, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:35 a.m.

    "Bible-believing Christians can, without picking and choosing, condemn both homosexual behavior and violence against homosexuals."

    No, they can't. If you're going off of Jesus' new higher law, what did Jesus EVER say about homosexuality? Nothing. Nada. The only biblical basis for anti-homosexual beliefs are NOT found in Jesus' teachings. So like I said, you can't use the Bible as a source against homosexuality while also ignoring the calls for violence in those same verses.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    @isrred | 7:39 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011

    You presume to tell people what they believe? Typical left intolerance.

  • S.Andrew Zaelit Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:14 a.m.

    The gay community is outraged? The ENTIRE community should be outraged. This senseless and disgusting act is nothing short of terrorism. The victim could be Mormon, Jewish, Catholic, Irish, or Muslim. Hate crimes apply to more than just gay individuals. Hate is hate. Tolerance does not and should not equal acceptance, but treating people with respect despite our differences is universal.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:13 a.m.

    From the article,

    "That education starts with young people who say phrases like, "That's so gay," she said. "People need to be called out when they're displaying that type of behavior.""

    While I agree that we should treat each other with respect, I found "that type of behavior" a bit odd. In my eyes, children should be taught to respect other views, including those that disagree- but that respecting other views does not equate the abandonment of ones own. I believe that homosexuality is a behavior, an immoral one, and has devastating affects on the individual and the family.

    That is my belief, obviously not shared by everyone. But what if I wanted to talk about sex in school? Would that solve problems? Would that please the masses?

    1- My health teachers, against what liberals claim, taught that certain things were 'okay', only 'natural', that my religious views were inaccurate.

    2- Even with such education programs, people make worse decisions today than every before relating to sex.

    The reasons we implemented such programs are worse of now than before. WE don't need to teach anything. Parents are the proper teachers. Without promoting family, no progress can be made.

  • Elcapitan Ivins, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:09 a.m.

    Speaking about religion and violence. True religion, in any form, despises violence to other innocent human beings. While on the other hand, teach that some some human behavior is unacceptable in their ranks. Never the less, violence is not tolerated. Remember the words of Christ, "In as much as ye do it unto the least of these my brethren, ye do it unto me." I hope these criminals can be brought to justice.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Sept. 2, 2011 6:55 a.m.

    I've known a young man in the 80's that would talk as if he would do this type of thing to someone. He was also the bishop's son. Very missguided about various topics.

    The people that do this are NOT following thier religion - that's the problem. I better see that this is follwed up on or the DA and other ifficials are going to be getting an angry phone call. I learned long ago that it actually does wonders to call local officials. For some reason in Utah it's particularly effective.

  • Pete in Texas Copperas Cove, TX
    Sept. 2, 2011 6:49 a.m.

    Thanks for your comments, Silly Rabbit. I just wanted to add one or two other thoughts:

    I don't support gay marriages. I don't support gay lifestyles. I believe to live that way is morally wrong. I don't hate an individual because they're gay and I don't think I'm any better than them because I'm not gay. We all have our challenges in life. Some folks were born with predispositions towards things that aren't "normal". Some folks have addictive personalities. They're predisposed that way. At the end of the day, it shouldn't be what we submit to that defines us, it should be what we're able to overcome. As a member of the predominate religion in Utah, it saddens me when I get accused of hate for actions I believe to be morally wrong. In truth, when someone bashes me over perceived bigotry because I don't support a certain way or lifestyle, they show their bigotry towards me. The accuser becomes the perpetrator in this regard. Respect is two way. If you want my respect for your right to live a certain way, respect my right to not agree with it. Both can be done without malice or hate.

  • GoldieZ Eureka, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 6:44 a.m.

    The men that beat him were certainly not "religious" in any way. Neither was the one that was beaten.

  • windsor City, Ut
    Sept. 2, 2011 6:09 a.m.

    article: "I don't have an answer. None of us do."

    In all seriousness,and with no flippancy, THERE IS an answer.

    It seemed that there was so much less of this type of violence back in a time when those of a different persuasion didn't insist on others knowing of that persuasion.

    That seems like a sensible answer: Don't broadcast and insist that others know of and/or accept your alternate lifestyle.

    I honestly can see no downside to keeping your private life and private business just that: private.

    What they don't know--they can't judge, disagree with, condemn, or stupidly think they are going to change with violence.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:45 a.m.

    It seems to me that so-called "curbing" ought to be regarded as attempted murder. Very sorry this person was attacked.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 3:29 a.m.

    @ignoranceisbliss 7:43

    Your comment is one reason why I'm so glad I grew up in the Rose Park/Riverside area of Salt Lake City.

    I attended Jackson Elementary, Northwest Middle School and West High School where I would say my close friends were somewhere between 50/50 to 40/60 LDS to non-LDS.

    To me it is very frustrating when I hear examples such as your own, because my siblings and I have always attempted to be as friendly and open to all our neighbors and co-workers, regardless of their faith. Even in my own family, my siblings, nieces and nephews who no longer attend church are still just as welcome to family activities as everyone else.

    I suppose its like the philosophy behind customer service. If someone has a good experience at a restaurant, they might tell one person. If they have a bad experience, they will tell at least 10 people.

    @Kdee 9:49

    You said - "This beating wasn't about Dane Hall. This beating was about being gay. The crime was intended to send a message to all other gay men."

    Based on comments here, it sounds like that message is backfiring.

  • TheJournalist Bluffdale, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 12:40 a.m.

    This story is appalling on every level, and we as Utahan's should be ashamed that this happened on our turf.

    Second, why is all the major news outlets in the SLC region only reporting this now. This story happened almost a week ago, and it was only after people in the gay community demanded the story be published was it done so.

  • 22ozn44ozglass Southern Utah, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:59 p.m.

    I hope a thorough investigation is performed and that the guitly are apprehended and tried in Court. Once the perpetrators are apprehended, it will be interesting to see who they are and what they are about.

    It is a sad day for all of us when anyone is beat up or assualted like this for whatever the reason, but there are several posters who have made an attempt to blame this incident on the LDS. It is also sad that this tragedy is being used as fodder for LDS and religion bashing. I am well aware of the LDS teachings and I have never heard any offical teaching condone or justify violence outside of self defense.

    As the perpetrators have not been identified, we have no facts regarding their religious background or lack there of, and the perpetrators alone are responsible for their crimes. The LDS did not tell them to do this, and the decision to assault this man was made soley by the perpetrators.

    So I pose this question, if the perpetrators are determined to be agnostic, atheists or any religion other than active LDS in good standing, will the LDS bashers own their hasty judgments?

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:52 p.m.

    After Matthew Shepard was murdered in Wyoming, I remember being angry when members of the Westboro Baptist Church protested at his funeral. I remember asking a number of family and friends, "I can't believe anyone who claims to be a Christian would do something so heartless and cruel."

    Watching the news coverage, as well as thinking more about it in my mind, I came to two conclusions.

    1. When you act violently against someone because they belong to a specific group of people, it does absolutely nothing except infuriate that specific group.

    Google the name "Emmett Till" and tell me his murder did nothing to ignite the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's. Google "Bull Connor" and tell me his actions did not generate sympathy towards blacks in the south.

    2. No matter how religious or irreligious the state; no matter how many Republicans or Democrats live in a certain city; no matter how many people do or don't drive hybrid cars in a particular town, there will always be those who insist and behaving like idiots, going out of their way to hurt and bully others.

    Yes it's sad but it's still true.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:46 p.m.

    @isrred, your take on Christian theology ignores the whole New Testament.

    Consider the incident of the woman taken in adultery. The Pharisees, citing scriptures like those you refer to, called for her to be stoned. Jesus made it clear that her actions were sinful but tactfully defended her life.

    When you read the whole Bible, you discover that Jesus brought a higher law than Old Testament Jews lived. He taught, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, ... but to fulfil.... Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you...." "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

    Christ's higher law still recognizes and condemns sin. But the layman's obligation to his neighbor is to show compassion, not mete out punishment. Bible-believing Christians can, without picking and choosing, condemn both homosexual behavior and violence against homosexuals.

  • Silly Rabbit Small Town, USA, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:30 p.m.

    This is a sad crime that was perpetrated on this young man gay or not, we should keep in mind that he is human first and foremost. The sub-humans that did this to him should be locked up for a long time, I think we can all agree on that, if you dont then there is something wrong with you.

    But the religion bashing really needs to stop. As a member of the predominate religion in the state I have never been taught in church to hate someone for what they are race, creed, color, sexual preference, or what sports team and political affiliation they might root for.

    But what is taught in the home that is prejudice has nothing to do with my religion. Sadly there are people out there that for some reason have no tolerance for anything different and that has nothing to do with religion, even though they may have interpreted it that way.

    Hope this young man heals up, and these criminals are put away.

    I hope this makes sense its late....

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:16 p.m.

    JNA, a not all crimes are the same and motive is definitely a part of the determination of motive. Hence we have a difference between voluntary manslaughter and murder. Enhancements are also standard practice.. assault, aggravated assault, assault with a deadly weapon. A hate crime designation is just that: a crime that was committed based on the person's identity. To be clear, such a designation can be made for more than sexual orientation. Religion is also a protected class.

  • Kdee SLC, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 9:49 p.m.

    @ JNA: No, not all crimes are the result of hate and/or fear. Some crimes are committed because someone is drunk, or wants to get high, or is mad at a particular person.

    The Holocaust was about hate.
    The Mormons being driven out of Missouri was about hate.

    The person that stole your car, has no idea who you are and really doesn't care - there is no hate or fear involved.

    The guy that murdered his ex-girlfriend did so in a fit of passion, not because he hates all women simply because they are women.

    Hate crimes don't just apply to gays - they apply to the aged, the handicapped, the religious, and, should a heterosexual be beaten for no reason other than being heterosexual, they would apply in that situation also.

    There are many different levels of crime. Each different level of crime has a different level of punishment. A hate crime designation raises a crime to a higher level, allowing for a stricter sentence.

    This beating wasn't about Dane Hall. This beating was about being gay. The crime was intended to send a message to all other gay men.

    Hate crimes are not regular crimes.

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 9:42 p.m.

    There is absolutely no room in our society for this kind of violence. Absolutely sickening! The guilty parties should be put away for a long time.

  • md Cache, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 9:20 p.m.

    "Why are supposedly "religious" people taught by that religion that anyone who feels differently than they do cannot be tolerated? What ever happened to tolerance?"

    You assume the perpetrators are religious.

    I have never been taught to tolerate actions like this. I will never condone it. If I were anywhere near this disgusting action, I would have stepped in to help.

    Do not lump me, as a religious man, with intolerance or behaviors such as these, that is offensive.

  • Ophelia Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 9:03 p.m.

    As a high school teacher, I have heard some horrific comments aimed at gays. One year as our class was discussing prejudice, one of my students prefaced his comment with this statement: "I come from a religious home. We read our scriptures every night." He then proceeded to issue an appalling gay slander. I was shocked, and thankfully, I believe most of the class was as well.

    Nonetheless, I see many who use their religion to justify prejudice and discrimination. Instead of being offended, we need to take steps to rectify that misunderstanding. Does the Church encourage violence, prejudice, and discrimination? Of course not, but some use the Bible and the Church to justify prejudice and violence.

  • JNA Layton, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 8:57 p.m.

    Mr Wilber, your comments are so disgusting. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints does not teach what you espouse they do. Your comments are extremely insulting and filled with lies that it borders on hate speech. Your agenda comes through loud and clear..we get it, we get it, you don't like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day

    A crime is a crime, they are all motivated by hate and fear. The homosexual community wants to be treated as equal yet they want crimes that are just for them. This was a horrible crime, a vicious crime but it should not be put into some special crime under the heading of hate. I wish all of the so called "hate crimes" would just go the way of the dodo. These men or women or both who committed this horrific crime should be sent away for a long long time.

  • ignoranceisbliss Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 7:43 p.m.

    Well, I was going to bash Beenlistening for blaming this kind of hate on religion, but then I thought about how much I was shunned, ridiculed, and hated for being a non-mormon growing up in a mormon neighborhood in Sandy. When my parents moved away and I did not go with them, my Mom could not believe I could stay in a place that had caused me so much pain. She vowed she would never come back here ever again and she did not. I guess the point I am trying to make is that there are people in this state that take things too far and it is because of the dominant religion. I still try not to judge people by their religion, but I know firsthand the prejudice that the mormon religion is capable of depositing amongst their flock and it is hateful, wrong, and very scary. I was a little kid and did not understand why I was hated so much or why and I struggled with it all through childhood. There are radicals in all religions including the mormon religion.

  • isrred Logan, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 7:39 p.m.

    Really DNEWS? why was this comment denied? It violates NONE of your terms: not obscene, no name calling, no yelling,no links or commercial promotion, and is not provocative or trolling. Follow your own guidlines and don't censor something that is pertinent to the conversation and follows all your rules
    "I don't know of any of the mainline religions in the Salt Lake area which teach that this kind of treatment of another human is acceptable."

    Really? People repeatedly use the Bible as "Evidence" that homosexuality is against God's "plan", but the very passages in the Bible that they cite demand stoning and putting to death gays, adulterers, disobedient children, etc.

    If you believe in the Bible, then you DO believe in such violence. If you pick and choose which parts you believe and which you don't, then you have no legs to stand on in trying to use it as an authoritative moral source on any issue.

  • photographermom South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 7:38 p.m.

    What does this have to do with the LDS church?! I am sorry this happened but how did it turn into a discussion on mormon bashing?

  • Semper Fidelis Apo, AP
    Sept. 1, 2011 7:27 p.m.

    As an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I read this and was appalled at this. We are all children of God who loves us and wants us to treat each other kindly.

    I am not sure why people are draagging the LDS church into this, because this act was not perpetrated by the LDS church, nor would it ever be supported by us. The very few who might support this violence are not representative of the Church or its doctrines.

    Here's to hoping for a quick recovery and justice for the perpetrators.

  • Quayle Dallas, TX
    Sept. 1, 2011 7:05 p.m.

    Jeffrey Wilbur writes: "...if that same religion also teaches that certain types of people are subhuman or inferior in some way. For decades, most religions - including the predominant culture in this state - have silently and subtly taught that homosexuality is everything from a disease, to a psychological disorder, to Satanic, to disgusting and subhuman. In one breath violence is condemned; in the next, "different" people are."

    Here is what the Mormon church teaches, so we're all clear:

    1. The purpose of our life is to experience a very broad range of circumstances, urges, emotions, events, thoughts, and desires so that we can learn to distinguish between the bitter and the sweet.

    2. Sin is essentially doing those things that don't lead to the greatest personal growth as a person. Therefore, more than anything, sin is delay.

    3. But every single person is going to willfully sin. There isn't one person, not even an Apostle (as they will well tell you) that hasn't sinned.

    4. And sin can be erased by the Lord in an instance, so it isn't an indelible trait.

    I don't see anything in the above that separates out or denigrates gays or any person that sins.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 6:29 p.m.

    flyfisher & Belching Cow--
    There is often a huge gulf between what is taught and the lesson received. Christian denominations,and indeed all major faiths, teach love as a primary virtue ("Faith, hope, love..."). But it is often a mixed message. Christianity is full of violent imagery (literal and metaphorical) in the Old and New Testaments and advancement of faith is often couched in violent terms (Revelations, anyone?). Leviticus has some harsh punishments for breaking the rules generally and some harsh words about homosexuality in particular. "Abomination" is the standard term linked Biblically to gays and the destruction of Sodom is often cited by the haters. Churches are leading the political movement against recognizing gay marriage rights. As much as the great majority of religious folks strive to live lives of peace and love, given the foregoing, I'm not the least bit surprised that some in the fold see it as their calling to destroy that which offends their religious views. It's a perversion of the teachings, but scriptures can be misinterpreted and religious zeal hijacked to violent ends, or do you not remember 9/11? I don't think Beenlistening is far off the mark in that speculation.

  • brightness Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 6:26 p.m.

    Physically violated a person is a serious crime, their intent is to harm this person because of his personal trait, everyone knows that a person can not be changed by beatings. These individuals need to be held accountable for their actions and behavior and prosecuted, otherwise the State is promoting violence.

  • Jeffrey Wilbur Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 6:17 p.m.

    Note: Seriously? The Deseret News denied this comment? I guess they don't want anything remotely critical of the Mormon church to be seen on here. Let's try again and see if they censor me again.


    Human beings are predisposed to feel uncomfortable around those they perceive to be "different" or "inferior". For some, especially the hateful and vindictive, that discomfort transforms into bigotry, slurs and verbal attacks, and sometimes violence. It's the very reason the very first step in propaganda is to paint your enemy as being as evil as possible, to reduce them to a subhuman categorization.

    As such, it doesn't matter so much if a religion doesn't "condone violence" if that same religion also teaches that certain types of people are subhuman or inferior in some way. For decades, most religions - including the predominant culture in this state - have silently and subtly taught that homosexuality is everything from a disease, to a psychological disorder, to Satanic, to disgusting and subhuman. In one breath violence is condemned; in the next, "different" people are.

    It's not a huge leap from that to a few fanatical and hateful individuals using it as justification to attack others.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 6:00 p.m.

    I would pray that it's not just the gay community thats upset. Resorting to this kind of treatment of an innocent victim is among the horrible things that humans are capable of.
    And for what?

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    absolutely disgusting that any human being could treat another person this way. for those of you that think the vitriol you spread against the gay community causes no harm take a good look at the picture attached to this story and then think twice how you phrase your opposition to gay rights. You haver a right to disagree with those of us that support gay rights just be aware of the possible cost of how you express those views.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 5:11 p.m.

    Does Utah have a hate crimes law? If not we need one.

    Perhaps the feds do and it can be applied. Any group that is singled out for persecution, needs to also be singled out for special protections.

    This is why this why the army applies armor to tanks. The same logic applies here.

  • Well Read SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 5:01 p.m.

    It is too bad that we in the United States can not be more tolerant of others who differ from us in religious, political or lifestyle choices. The intolerance of others for religious, political or lifestyle choices are rampant throughout our society. We need to be more respectful of others.

  • FargoUT Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 4:55 p.m.

    This is a horrible crime -- extremely violent and disturbing. The cowards who did this should be in jail. I can't even imagine that kind of violence. Hope he recovers quickly.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Sept. 1, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    That's terrible. Why can't everyone just love and respect everyone?!