Utahns with better educations fare better in jobs, life and family, new poll shows

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  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 1:45 p.m.

    Screen name,

    It is revealing that you assume "building people's belief systems" is the only valid purpose for comments. That pretty much sums up the attitude in the LDS "bubble".

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 2:37 p.m.


    Here's a bit of advice: People are more prone to listen to your message if you aren't so condescending. Especially when that condescension is so misplaced in the first place.

    I notice you didn't address any of the points I brought up.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Aug. 18, 2011 1:36 p.m.


    Just trying to save lives bud, please relax. I'd save every one of you one by one if I could. The indoctrination is too strong for most though.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 10:38 a.m.


    Although I agree with you that it's slightly annoying when someone adds their testimony to an article that has nothing to do with the LDS Church, there is a important and significant difference between the two scenarios you put forth. If this were politics, it would be expressed as "Tell me why I should vote for you and not why I shouldn't vote for the other guy."

    One type of comment uplifts people's belief systems. LValfre's comments usually do not build; they attempt to destroy an existing belief system. He's essentially negative campaigning for his belief system by destroying other belief systems. I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to do it; I'm just saying it's rude, mean-spirited, and people are right to call him out for it.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 9:49 a.m.

    Just for clarity:

    The Salt Lake Tribune is owned by the MediaNews Group. This is not an LDS church company.

    The Deseret News is owned by the Deseret News Publishing Company, an LDS Church company.

    Both of these papers are printed and distributed by the Newspaper Agency Corporation, a jointly owned distribution entity and could be, by association, be construed as a partly owned LDS church entity. They are a printing, delivery and advertising company and do not contribute to the news and editorial content in either paper.

    In what other venue could an article about the economic benefits of education be twisted into a religious conversation? Kind of funny.

    Reason tells us that the more skills, knowledge, and capabilities one brings to the workforce, the greater the value of that person's contribution. Those who bring only skills that are in abundance and require little to acquire will indeed command less compensation. I believe that this is a reasonable condition.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 9:17 a.m.

    'I even like Pagan because he/she makes statements ABOUT the article in ways that I have not thought of. While I don't always agree with him/her, I appreciate he/she is on topic...' - ER in EUR | 12:41 a.m. Aug. 18, 2011

    Thank you for the compliment.

    In LVafre's defense, many times when I post ANY article about the LDS church I am labled a 'hater'...

    when my SOURCE for the article is from the DSNews or SL Tribune, both owned by...

    the LDS church.

    It is this Irony that points out that almost ALL criticism of the LDS church is viewed by some of it's members as 'hate'.

    Instead of, factual.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 8:06 a.m.

    ER in EUR,

    Any article in the DN is at risk of having a zealous believer put a testimony or the church into their comment. And everyone thinks it is wonderful. They say "this is an LDS owned newspaper. If you don't like it, move out of Utah and read the Trib!"

    I guarantee you if I posted "Bill/JM, we get it, you are an overzealous religious fanatic." the editorial staff would deny my comments, or readers would call me hateful.

    But you can say "we get it. You are angry and have an axe to grind. You are a hater." and it is OK because you are defending the majority religious view.

    I like LVafre's comments. I think they are relevant. EduCation is important and it is associated with non-religious belief systems. Only a narrow mind would not see the relevance of that.

    Perhaps you should take your own advice and come back less paranoid and defensive.

  • Red Smith American Fork, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 7:49 a.m.

    It's the type or kind of people who get college degrees that are better workers. Is not the college degrees that make the people better workers.

    There is a big difference between learning and education.

    There is a big difference between workers and non-workers.

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 7:32 a.m.

    And where are Senator Stephenson's replies to this article? We know how he feels about higher education, even though he has his own degrees from BYU.

  • ER in EUR Belgrade, Serbia
    Aug. 18, 2011 12:41 a.m.


    We get it.

    You feel a personal responsibility to make statements about the LDS church that have tangential or tenuous link to the articles.

    We get it.

    I promise I won't preach a sermon to you if you promise to stop commenting on things purely to take shots at the Mormons.

    I really like to read the comments ABOUT the article. I even like Pagan because he/she makes statements ABOUT the article in ways that I have not thought of. While I don't always agree with him/her, I appreciate he/she is on topic and not a one trick pony with an ax to grind.

    Please re-evaluate and come back focused.

  • Larry Willard, UT
    Aug. 18, 2011 12:17 a.m.

    The way we got here is not with a DEGREE, Not with a High School deploma.
    You just need to look back at history and learn about our inventors.

  • srw Riverton, UT
    Aug. 17, 2011 8:24 p.m.

    The reason for the news story is the new survey. And it's good that the results are reported because there are still many people who don't get the picture. For example, folks shouldn't believe that a degree is "too expensive" if you can get one for $20K (assuming no grants or scholarships) and you get back $650K (on average) and many other benefits.

  • WSU Germantown, MD
    Aug. 17, 2011 6:08 p.m.

    They should do a study about those who have left Utah. I left Utah after High School and have never gotten my degree. But with lots of experience I have a six figure income...... And working for the federal government is not a happy job....

  • Morgan Duel Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 17, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    What negative group. Most of the young people that do not have a secondary education in my opinion are in that position due to a number of factors:

    First - many come from or live in poverty or from families where they do not receive encouragement and are defeated by their environment;

    Second - If they are behind they receive little or no help at home, they are treated as "slow" by their school and because of that, their peers and the school help them to fail; and

    Third - they become discouraged and it becomes easy to quit.

    Even the 20% from educated families probably do not go on because of something in their lives that cause them to become discouraged.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Aug. 17, 2011 5:00 p.m.

    "Parents need to teach proper priciples in the home and children need to learn to study."

    Agreed! Too many parents think this is taught in the Church, it's not! Some of the most kind, generous, and caring people I know are Atheists who had a good upbringing from their parents. They don't judge, care about race (and before 1978 I might add!!!!), and down people as immoral since they don't believe in the same god.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Aug. 17, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    I think they need to tax these "happy" people. Is there a way to tax satisfaction.

    Affirmative action? Taking spots for qualified students and giving them to un-qualified students is not the answer. Parents need to teach proper priciples in the home and children need to learn to study. Race should not be used to judge people - even if it means a free ride.

  • XXEconomist SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Aug. 17, 2011 3:52 p.m.

    I needed a survey to tell me this?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2011 2:04 p.m.

    'Utahns with better educations fare better in jobs, life and family, new poll shows' - Title

    And yet...

    *'Affirmative action may be back on the table' - By Robert Gehrke - SL Tribune - 11/15/2010

    'The solution, Oda said, is to end race-based preferences by amending Utahs Constitution to prohibit the state from giving any race- or gender-based preference in education, employment and awarding state contracts.'

    Efforts have been made to try and PREVET assistance in education...

    to groups that, typically, make around 30% LESS THAN their caucasian counter parts.

    This amendment was a clear and evident example of the worst in us. Racism in education.

    Want more evidence?

    *'Backers of proposed Utah affirmative action amendment don't show' - By Lisa Riley Roche, Deseret News - 12/03/10

    'SALT LAKE CITY Members of the Utah Constitutional Revision Commission were irked Thursday when backers of a proposed amendment to end affirmative action in the state didn't bother to show up.'

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Aug. 17, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    This is nationwide, not just in Utah. Another similar story, the higher the education level the greater level of secularism. Another similar story, most new LDS converts come from areas with low levels of education. Another similar story, I'm smart. : )

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Aug. 17, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    Stop the presses! Here's a new flash! Educated People Fare Better!!!! (The uneducated read this with difficulty and mumble to themselves "wull, that's not fare!")

  • Shawnm750 West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 17, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    This seems to be one of those news stories that gets thrown in to fill out an empty news day. This information has been reported before ad nauseam, yet news outlets seem to keep reporting it. Though, this article does hit on the other aspects of life and family that similar articles often leave out, but still...