Blue roundup: Jimmer Fredette is an NBA Draft enigma

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  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 26, 2011 11:06 p.m.

    Hoopsworld is reporting that the Jazz are dead serious about Jimmer.

    They say Harris's style does not fit the Jazz which is very true. Harris is poor in transition and pick and roll. He is best in isolation plays which the Jazz rarely run.

    Jimmer ran a lot of pick and roll and transition at BYU. His game is similar to DWill's. The bottom line is Jimmer should be able to run the Jazz flex better than Harris.

    They are suggesting the Jazz may trade Harris to POR. If that is true I suspect the Jazz may be able to get Batum or Mathews back in trade.

    Drafting Jimmer is starting to make more sense all of the time.

    "Fredette could very well turn out to be Utah's next great point guard"(Hoopsworld).

    How is that for a non BYU comment?

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    May 26, 2011 4:12 p.m.

    bluecoug89 -- unfortunately, all too many teams had great games against the Utes this year. Citing accomplishments against Utah during the Giac/Boylen era doesn't carry much weight.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    May 26, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    For those who say Jimmer won't be successful in the NBA - Did you also boo when the Jazz drafted Gordon? If so, why did you boo? GoHay had some of most athletic measurements in that draft. Yet many Jazz fans booed because he was "another slow white guy". White yes, slow no. Just a stereotype. I realize there is the whole BYU v. Utah going on here on these boards - but if we all take our red or blue glasses off for a moment - Jimmer actually appears to have a legit shot at playing well at the next level. I think the Jazz make a mistake if Jimmer is on the board at 12 and they don't take him.

  • bluecoug89 Highland, UT
    May 26, 2011 12:01 p.m.

    I love how people making dumb remarks about Jimmer's game and that he's not all that good when he's the one that put 47 points all over the Utes' face. You guys make me laugh. Who else in college basketball did that?

  • MGB Saint George, UT
    May 26, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    There are things that measured stats can not reflect: IQ, leadership, court presence, adapability, heart, determination, aggressiveness, fearlessness, toughness. Jimmer has shown all of that throughout his entire carrer. It will carry over into the NBA. Toughness: he was recruited out of high school to play football by several major colleges including Penn State. Besides his abilities he will have a Matt Harpring type of toughness. The more he is doubted the more he likes it and the harder he works. He will have no problem adapting to the NBA. He is a quick learner.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 26, 2011 10:17 a.m.

    The Jazz can go Knight, Williams or Kantor at 3 and get good value.

    Knight would replace Harris and save 9 Mill. Williams could play the 3 but he could also replace Millsap at 8 Mill.

    Kantor is extremely agile and fast for a big. He is about the same size at AJ and may be a better rebounder. He could replace AJ and save about 14 mill. Kantor is not the ideal size for a traditional C but he is agile and fast and fits the newer NBA style well.

    The Jazz may not have a good SF in this draft. Hamilton and Singlton can't jump.

    Klay Thompson may be better, faster and more agile than Korver. However, the Jazz could trade AJ, Millsap or Harris and get a Vet SF.

    They may also see how much AK will cost to resign and then trade for an SF.

    I am not sure who is available at 12. The workouts are going to move the board some more. The Jazz should add a lot of talent.

    The lock out year will be a transition year and some decisions are going to be driven by the new CBA.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 26, 2011 9:52 a.m.

    Jimmer was accused of floating in his sprint. He recorded a 3.21, which is faster than Price and DWill. In spite of floating he is plenty fast. Knight recorded a 3.07 which is similar to Derek Rose.

    Jimmer appear to have 1 minor weakness and 1 question mark. He is not likely to be a good rebounding PG. That is based on his max vert reach. Rebounding is not a major issue for most PGs. The big question with Jimmer, as it is with all PGs is "can he run the Jazz effectively?"

    BYU ran such an unorthodox offense that it is hard to tell.

    I think the PG decision comes down to Jimmer and Knight. Knight looks like the better defender but may have trouble on screens. Jimmer is built like DWill. Knight tends to turn the ball over but should improve with practice.

    William (3.23)and Kantor (3.26) both had remarkable sprint times for bigs. They both have similar max vert reaches. Kantor is very athletic for his size. They both are good prospects.

    The Jazz would do well with either. I am not sure the Jazz can get Jimmer at 12.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    May 26, 2011 9:10 a.m.

    Jimmer would fit in nicely with the Jazz, and he's less likely to bolt for the bigger market if he becomes "too successful" (i.e. DWILL). However, the Jazz won't take him at the 3 and its probable that he won't be around at the 12.

    Tom in CA, I've stopped marking down your's and worf's predictions.

  • IndianaCoug Bloomington, IN
    May 26, 2011 7:31 a.m.

    Jimmer is #4 ALL-TIME in the MWC steals category.
    Jimmer won't drive the lane with ease like he did in college, but that didn't seem to be an issue for J.J. Barea this NBA post-season, leading me to believe it can still be done for the undersized Jimmer.
    Jimmer will be drafted higher than he would have been drafted had he entered the draft last year.
    Jimmer will make more money than all Utah trolls combined and have the opportunity to prove himself in the NBA (so even if he does end up in Europe at some point, at least he got a chance).
    Jimmer will be the most popular baby name in Utah this year.
    Jimmer scored 47 against his college rival team, including a 42 footer that looked easy.

  • SeattleUhasabballteam? Seattle, WA
    May 26, 2011 1:27 a.m.

    Chris B:

    "6 minutes, 2.2 points per game, 1 assist, 2 turnovers." That sounds more like the avg statline of the U transfers.

    And since you love to go to the who's going to the draft cause they're real athletes card: Who is it that is getting drafted from the U?

    U can't beat the WCC teams on your schedule
    U can't have a winning season but twice in the last 6 years
    U can't get more people to the HC than go to Jr Jazz games
    U can't sign more players than U have transfers
    U can't get alumni to coach your team
    And you're talking smack on BYU bball?

    Demarcus is a new player running the offense in a new league. How well he rises to the occasion will serve as a litmus test as to whether this is more of a rebuilding year or a reloading year.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 25, 2011 11:13 p.m.

    IF the Jimmer workouts go well the Jazz may want to trade back a couple of spots and pick him up and then try to get an SF at 12 or later.

    Hamilton, Singler and Morris did poorly in the verts. That is not good.

    The Jazz need to look at Marshon Brooks.

    I want to see more data on Knight, Williams and Kantor before I get too excited. There is just not a lot of overall player quality difference in the 2-10 spots. You might as well draft for position if there is little difference in quality.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 25, 2011 9:30 p.m.

    @Chris B

    Jimmer's lane agility was in the top 3 combine measurements this year at 10.42. That is better than Knight at 10.74 and Walker at 10.87. It is also better than DWill, Chris Paul, Aaron Brooks, Ty Lawson and Derrick Rose just to mention a few.

    Jimmer was 2nd in modified lane agility for the combine.

    You might want to retract your nonsense. You now look completely rediculous.

    Jimmer may jump up the board.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    May 25, 2011 8:31 p.m.

    How many PGs in the NBA are considered "relentless" scorers rather than just "good" or "consistent" scorers? I can't think of even one (that's still active).

    Being relentless means constant pressure on defenses.

    Nash is relentless as a PG, but not so much as a scoring threat. That's about as close as I can come up with. (Rose can score, but doesn't seem relentless in doing so.)

    Dirk is a big that can be a relentless scorer. Sometimes Kobe can. MJ was a lot of the time, as is Durant. But, they're not PGs.

    The Jazz have players with the scoring abilities: Big Al, Millsap, Hayward, Miles (sometimes), AK (if he comes back as SF), etc. Jimmer would be a neat fit with the Jazz.

    He'd be like a kid in a candy store: score? assist? score? assist?

    He'd do whichever the defense gave him. He didn't have that choice much in college.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    May 25, 2011 8:09 p.m.

    All Jimmer's life he's dealt with doubters. Note I said "dealt with," not "faced." They've ALL been Jimmered!

    It's no surprise he's a draft enigma, because being the national player of the year so resoundingly, yet appearing to play no defense, and certainly not looking like an athlete, what CAN you make of him?

    Well, the doubters have their ammo---too bad their blanks!

    Those who think Jimmer can't ever become an efficient PG in the NBA are only waiting to be Jimmered. It'll happen. He's proved doubters wrong all his life--at every level he's attained.

    I don't see him faltering at the NBA level.

    Isn't that the kind of "it" superstars are made of? Ability to excel, regardless? The ability to face a task and conquer it?

    That's Jimmer in a nutshell.

    Be prepared to be Jimmered, ye doubters!

  • CocoNutzz Salt Lake City, UT
    May 25, 2011 7:44 p.m.

    The combine agility test numbers have come out. And Jimmer is in the top 3 of the agility test. Im sold on Jimmer even more now than before. Jimmer needs to stay here and play ball for Utah.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    May 25, 2011 7:11 p.m.

    Chris B

    He lit up your mighty utes for 49 big ones - and sat for nearly 6 minutes in that game. And good luck in the conference of champions.

    One thing you can't teach is greatness. The cream always rises. Jimmer was great in college and most likely will be great in the NBA. He will figure it out there just like he did in college. Mark it down.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    May 25, 2011 6:34 p.m.

    @ @Charles...

    Ray Allen plays good solid must've not watched him guard you want me to name at least 16 players that can play decent D?...

    Ray Allen
    Tony Allen
    Shane Battier
    James Posey
    Wesley Matthews
    Thabo Sefolosha
    Aaron Afflalo
    Gordon Hayward
    Kirk Hinrich
    Raja Bell
    Luol Deng
    Ronnie Brewer
    Keith Bogans
    Rajon Rondo
    Shawn Marion
    George Hill

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    May 25, 2011 6:34 p.m.

    What won't work for the jimer in the NBA is that mid major drive to the basket/run into someone and hope for a foul move. is typically the most accurate mock draft sites. At one point they had the jimer as high as #7 and now he's at 17.

    Based on some lackluster workouts I could see him dropping into the mid 20's. Let's be honest, that's where Gm's would feel comfortable drafting the jimmer.

  • bigj5661 Ogden, UT
    May 25, 2011 6:21 p.m.

    Last comment should have said Cougars, not cougers....

  • bigj5661 Ogden, UT
    May 25, 2011 6:20 p.m.

    I still don't understand why all of my fellow UTE fans are bashing on Jimmer. I think he'll have a fine career in the NBA. He is decently quick, can shoot from anywhere on the court, and has heart like no other. The whole "he plays no defense" is just garbage. He played what he needed to play and was probably told not to play too aggressive. If he were to get in foul trouble, the cougers would have little left. He is athletic enough to play great defense. I am hoping he has a great career, and I'm a UTE fan.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    May 25, 2011 5:46 p.m.


    As for defensive questions; I do buy some justifications given for Jimmer's lack of defense at BYU. It's more than foul trouble though. Jimmer needed to save energy for the offensive end where he saw triple teams.

    My concerns with Jimmer's defense are with his lateral movement and back pedaling. He moves smooth laterally but slowly nonetheless. As for back pedaling, he is heavy footed.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    May 25, 2011 5:44 p.m.

    Jimmer worked with the ball in his hands at BYU. He will need to do the same in the NBA. Jimmer is an NBA Point Guard and not a Shooting Guard. He will have NBA scorers around him and can't jack up endless shots from the parking lot anymore. Jimmer was needed at BYU to get a large volume of shots.

    As a Point Guard, Jimmer will need to orchestrate chemistry. Basically, he will need to change his BYU approach when running an NBA team. Can he? I think it depends on the team and the role.

    I am not saying that Jimmer can't be a scorer and a combo guard type. He could guard the point (if he can), and then switch roles with a bigger guard handling the ball. Here is the problem with that; despite having unquestionable range, Jimmer didn't come off screens and spot up much at BYU. Can Jimmer do this in the NBA? Maybe, but I don't like taking the ball out of his hands too much. Jimmer is a creator. Plus, spotting up means that NBA talent and size will be closing in on him.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    May 25, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    Not only is he an enigma to the NBA, he was a pain in the Utes' butt, too!

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 25, 2011 4:40 p.m.

    The NBA consensus draft has Jimmer going at 9 to the Bobcats.

    I heard an interview today with Bibby. He said when he first came out that everyone said he would not make it in the NBA because he was to small, slow and could not play defense.

    He has played 13 seasons. He is the same size as Jimmer.

    I think Jimmer will do fine. He will need a year or more to learn to be a PG.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 25, 2011 4:22 p.m.

    Jimmer will stand up to the pick punishment but will he be able to turn the corner and finish in the NBA? Can he run the team better than Harris in the long run?

    Do you trade down? How many young players do you want? All of the 2-12 players have some risk.

    If you do go big with the 3 and not Jimmer with the 12. Who do you pick? Do you go for a SF like Hamilton or do you draft a big that you do not need like Moutie or Morris? The consensus draft has the Jazz picking Kantor and Valanciusas.

    The Jazz have a lot of options and they have a the GS pick next year. How many young players do you want?

    Where are your greatest needs. Who can you replace to have the greatest impact?

    The outside shooting can be addressed at the SF/SG and PG. Hayward appears to be the SG of the future. CJ and Harris are inefficient. CJ may be okay backing up the SG. Kantor and William add outside shooting at PF. Millsap will add range. Okur MAY be back.

    Add a Defensive specialist?

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    May 25, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    This is a very problematic draft for Utah. The 2-8 players all have strengths and weaknesses. They all have some risk. KOC is very open about drafting the best player available. That means he has to trade to fill needs.

    The Jazz need an SF (especially if AK goes). They can get by with Hayward and CJ but both of them are better at SG. The Jazz may need a PG who fits the offense better. They need outside shooting, defense and bigger bigs.

    Williams claims to be an SF but he is really a PF who should be able to play SF (at least some of the time). He is a quicker version of Millsap.

    Kantor is a little bigger than Millsap and also can shoot outside. He is about the same size as AJ.

    Can/should Kantor replace AJ/Millsap? How much is gained? AJ/Millsap then have to be traded for a SF.

    Knight is the most likely PG at 3. How much better is he than Harris? Will he stand up to the abuse of running thru/setting picks. Harris is injury prone. Knight is not built like DWill.


  • bballjunkie Cedar Hills, UT
    May 25, 2011 3:50 p.m.

    Someone please prove to me Jimmer doesn't play "D". BYU Defense they went with a majority of the time was a 3-2 or even a 1-2-2. His job was just force to a direction base line mostly. Professional said at the combine he had good feet and was not as bad as people keep talking about.

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    May 25, 2011 3:33 p.m.

    "LivinLarge | 2:23 p.m. May 25, 2011
    Bountiful, UT
    Jimmer is not destined to be an NBA star, as in college. The lowliest NBA defenders will be 10x's better than the best college defenders Jimmer faced. He is Mark Madsen part II."

    Let's see, the Mavs have JJ Barea, Thunder have Sefelosha, Heat have Mario Chalmers, and the Bulls have CJ Watson. Are you tellimg me that as rookies, all those guys were THAT much better than Jimmer today? Do you really believe that?

    Jimmer won't drop 30+ per night, but he does provide some offense some teams desperately need. His defense will be just fine since he'll be getting help from his bigs anyway. I think there are a lot of surprises in store with where he lands.

    All he needs to do is be a 10pt/5ast guy to have a long career in this league....and make a lot more $$$ than anyone on these boards.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    May 25, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    I just wonder how much of the "controversy" over Jimmer's game is real and how much is pretense.

    Maybe Jimmer is such a hot commodity that nobody wants to tip their hand and show how much they really want the guy?

    A whole lot of bluffin goin on here!

  • factcheck Salt Lake City, UT
    May 25, 2011 2:44 p.m.


    "Nash and Miller average 2.8 and 2.6 APG now. "
    I meant Turnovers per game.

  • factcheck Salt Lake City, UT
    May 25, 2011 2:43 p.m.

    Chris B spewing his daily Jimmer hate.

    Lets look at the facts and compare Jimmer to 2 other players coming out of college that were ready for "Europe" Andre Miller and Steve Nash.

    Minutes per game
    All 3 right around 30 min per game

    Turnovers per game
    Miller 2.7
    Nash 2.6
    Jimmer 2.5
    All 3 had more turnovers as minutes went up and scoring went up. All pretty close. Also note that Nash averages 2.8 Turnovers per game in the NBA and Miller 2.6. Pretty much the same as college. I would expect the same for Fredette.

    Assists per game
    Miller 5.4
    Nash 4.5
    Jimmer 3.5

    Points per game. Do I really need to go there? Jimmer did not play that much as a Freshman and still averaged 18.7 (22.6 his last 3 years, one w mono)Nash 14.9, Miller 12.1.

    I really don't see much difference. If you come back with how good Miller and Nash play D, that proves you don't watch the NBA.

    Nash and Miller average 2.8 and 2.6 APG now.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    May 25, 2011 2:28 p.m.


    You know that your prediction accuracy hasn't been stellar, and you are wrong a whole lot more than you are right, but when you make negative comments about everything BYU, and Jimmer, it leaves us all wondering...

    Why do you care so much? Why is it so important that you are right about Jimmer playing in the ero leagues?

    Dude, get over it. Jimmer will go where he goes. It is not up to you. He will do what he does, wherever that is.

    Let it go...

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    May 25, 2011 2:23 p.m.

    Jimmer is not destined to be an NBA star, as in college. The lowliest NBA defenders will be 10x's better than the best college defenders Jimmer faced. He is Mark Madsen part II...

  • Winglish Lehi, UT
    May 25, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    I disagree with any analysis that says Jimmer doesn't handle the ball well. In fact, Tim Miles (CSU) said this year that "Jimmer handles the ball like Curly Neal." You know, Curly of the Harlem Globetrotters, who performed dribbling tricks all game long.
    Jimmer Fredette has a great handle. He's a very good passer. His weakness is defense.

  • bballjunkie Cedar Hills, UT
    May 25, 2011 1:43 p.m.

    Chris B.

    Dude your hatred towards Jimmer is so over the top. Stick with politics! your knowledge of the game and who has or hasn't got talent shows more and more every time you type.

    Oh another ute left the program please spin this one for us all to enjoy!(JJ O'Brien see ya) Hows that pac 12 working out for ya? It seems to me that kids are dying to stay around. LOL

  • Idaho Coug Meridian, Idaho
    May 25, 2011 1:42 p.m.

    Where Jimmer gets drafted really depends on his private team workouts. I think he has the athleticism to guard in the NBA especially within the team defense most teams employ. He is strong enough to consistently get to the rim and the line and his range goes without saying. If he surprises (defensively and atheltically) in those 1-1, 2-2 or 3-3 drills teams set up he could jump several places. I think teams know he can come in and be an offensive spark. But if he shows he has the overall game of an NBA starter it is a whole new ballgame.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    May 25, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    for all of you who whine about Jimmer and his defensive skills, please list for us who actually plays/played defense in the NBA?

    Ray Allen?
    Reggie Miller?
    Steve Nash?
    Deron Williams?
    Nate Robinson?

    And many dozens of others.

    Seriously, unless you are solely in the lineup for defense, there aren't but 15 guys in the NBA who play good, solid defense.

    Anything else to whine about?

  • Laser Iowa City, IA
    May 25, 2011 12:49 p.m.

    The problem is the scouts look at Jimmer and he doesn't have the stereotypical can-score-on-anyone-at-will-look. However, this kid can play and he has a ton of what most NBA players don't...desire!

    He'll be good as gold.

  • More Mature Y Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    May 25, 2011 12:28 p.m.

    I loved every minute of Jimmer's career at BYU butI've never totally understood the Jimmermania when it comes to the NBA. There are very few places that I think Jimmer would be a good fit. New York is about the only place where i see him fitting because D'Antoni doesn't play defense and has little that passes for an organized offense.

    Based on what I saw of Jimmer in school he appears to have too many things to his detriment to be a success in the pros. He is definitely a defensive liability. BYU could compensate for this but it will be exposed in the pros. He may be able to score 30 a game but will likely give up 32. Also he's not big enough to play the shooting guard and I don't believe his ball-handling skills are competent enough to play the point in the NBA.

    I wish him all the best to succeed but I fear he is Greg Kite-esque. Incredible college player just not suited for the NBA game. Good luck to him wherever he goes, though.

  • bigsoccer Syracuse, UT
    May 25, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    Never good when you have a quarteback quandry, look at BYU last season.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 25, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    He is a perfect Euro league type player. No defense. Good shot. Very spastic with the ball, leading to lots of turnovers and fast breaks going the other way.

    In his 2 years in the NBA he'll have an average line of 6 minutes, 2.2 points per game, 1 assist, 2 turnovers.