Red roundup: sizes up Utes, Cougars during BCS era

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  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 9, 2011 9:19 p.m.

    "I would rather lose and be a member of the PAC 12 than stay and win in the MWC". -Dutchman

    Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself. Glad we can all agree that leaving the MWC is like jumping out of the toilet.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 9, 2011 4:09 p.m.


    No, I'm afraid it is you who is not getting it. When the official statement is that no tithing dollars are used to fund the athletic programs, where else does the Church get the money you say they spend to make all the athletic facilities top notch? It is you who is incapable of dealing with the truth here. I'm sure the academic facilities get a lot of money from tithing funds, but when the prophet makes the statement in conference and BYU's own web site makes the same statement, what is it the you don't understand? Where do they get the money from?

    As far as rugby goes, I know it is not officially santioned by the NCAA and is a club sport. However, the teams do use the facilities on their own campuses for training and are supported by the schools in other ways. I am refuting your assertion that we have nothing to offer outside of football. No homework needed for me, but you could use some accounting help to understand the funding issues at BYU.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 9, 2011 3:12 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    Rugby is not a pac10 sport. It isn't even an NCAA sport. It is a club sport and the schools that participate in it are completely seperate from the NCAA. The kids on the teams do not receive scholarships. What the u does in rugby has absolutely no bearing on how they stack up to the pac10.

    But since you are on the subject I posted just a couple of weeks ago about how I am really beginning to become a fan of Rugby and how great it is that both BYU and utah had such excellent programs. My guess is that is in large part because there are so many polynesians around here and that is a sport they play in their home countries. Whatever the reason I'm happy about it but it has absolutely nothing to do with the pac10.

    Sorry but you really need to do your homework on this sort of stuff.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 9, 2011 3:02 p.m.


    "I have a strong hunch that I'm going to miss life in the MWC".

    Coach LaVelle Edwards once said, "I would rather lose and live in Provo than win and live in Laramie". Well, I am sure that I speak for the vast majority of Ute fans in saying, "I would rather lose and be a member of the PAC 12 than stay and win in the MWC".

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 9, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    Are you paying any attention at all to anything I have told you? yes the operations of the athletic department are funded by football and basketball revenues plus donor dollars. That is not how all of the FACILITIES are built and maintained.

    They do fund raise to help pay for facility construction but like all other facilities on campus they are built, upgraded, and maintained through university funds. I really don't see how this is so hard for you to understand.

    They fund raise to help pay for facility construction for all of the buildings on campus but the church still pays the difference and that is how it is done.

    I really don't know what else to tell you as you seem to be completely incapable of dealing with this so I will tell you one more time.

    THE LDS CHURCH, which owns and sponsors BYU, pays for the facilities on campus. They insist on everything being top of the line and they pay to have it be top of the line. That includes ALL CAMPUS FACILITIES athletic or otherwise. yes they fund raise to help pay for them but that is all. Sheesh.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 9, 2011 1:08 p.m.


    More proof this weekend of how well the Utes stack up in our other sports. Our rugby team handed Army its first loss of the season to advance to the semi-finals against Cal, a future PAC-12 foe. Seems like we are matching up quite well with the PAC-12.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 9, 2011 12:54 p.m.


    The following is a quote directly from, "How are BYU's athletic programs financially supported?
    Most of the funding used for BYU's athletic programs comes from football and men's basketball ticket sales. Additional funds are obtained through corporate sponsors, the fundraising efforts of the Cougar Club, and private donations. The university does provide a small amount of funding, but no tithing dollars from members of the LDS Church are used to run the athletic programs."

    My guess is the small amount mentioned comes from student fees, since virtually every university in the country charges the students something to help with the athletic programs. I also don't see how something they are calling a small amount can possibly fund the construction of all the athletic facilities as you claim.

  • Bigute Salt Lake City, UT
    May 9, 2011 10:51 a.m.


    The major concern is with our secondary. As a unit, they have been getting progressively worse and less athletic since the 2008 season. For Kyle's defensive scheme to work properly we need to have corners who can play very tight in man coverage and be big enough to be physical with them at the LOS but fast enough to stay with them downfield.

    It takes experience along with the athletic ability so it may be a while before this unit gets up to speed. As for QB, Wynn has been a bit of an enigma. If he goes down to an injury then we're hosed and a 6-6 season will look pretty good. But if he stays healthy he has a great WR group to throw to and a decent OL to protect (decent by MWC standards, we'll have to wait and see how they stand up to Pac 12 pass rushes) so there's no reason why we can't go 8-4 our first year even without a reliable running game.

  • Realistic Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    May 9, 2011 10:39 a.m.

    A sobering moment in all the euphoria, it puts us middle of the pack in the Pac 12, not in the upper tier. This becomes even more disconcerting when you consider they were measuring the absolute golden era of U of U sports success for both programs which was feeding on mediocre (not Pac 12 caliber) competition, which realistically drops us a couple more slots.

    I have a strong hunch that I'm going to miss life in the MWC and the opportunity to go to BCS Bowl games on a routine basis. It's not going to be fun seeing us in the middle of the pack or lower on a consistent basis in the Pac 12.

    For the average fan, the money that the new TV deal will someday bring in doesn't mean a thing. It's wins and losses that matter. Already it seems, in joining the Pac 12 we killed the golden goose.

  • Lone Star Cougar Plano, TX
    May 9, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    Congrats to the Utes! My best to them and their program.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 8, 2011 8:37 p.m.


    You're entitled to your opinion. I believe this year's team will be as good as last year's and that's why I have said I believe 8-4 or 9-3 is doable. I also have several analysts and national observers from other publications who are saying the same thing. So I'm not just basing my opinion on my own observations. I am concerned about the QB and RB situations, but am reserving judgement on them until fall. Solid coaching can help overcome some inexperience.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 8, 2011 8:29 p.m.


    How does Boise State compare to UTEP? Losing to a team picked by many to finish in the top ten this fall I don't believe is too disgraceful, no matter how bad a loss it was.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 8, 2011 5:25 p.m.


    "But they will probably always have a disadvantage to BYU in that area because they will never have the financial backing BYU has."

    I take that to mean the financial backing of the LDS Church rather than the State of Utah. In that you are absolutely correct. I have pointed this out before but Forbes list of billionaire alums indicates that there are only 22 universities in the country with more billionaire alums than the U. The U requires $2 billion of non State funds to meet its operation and maintenance budget each year. That money has to come from somewhere and it doesn't come from the State of Utah. A lot of it comes from generous donors who get so stretched that they don't have more available for athletics.

    BYU is different with the LDS Church as its owner and backer. This is a positive for BYU. But again, I believe that the PAC 10 presidents considered all of this and decided long ago that a third privately funded university with all its resources coupled with low tuition rates could not be accommodated by the State funded schools already in the PAC 10.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 8, 2011 1:44 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    I like you, but when BYU was winning Las Vegas bowls, Utah fans made fun of BYU for going to a lesser bowl every year. So naturally, when Utah goes to the Las Vegas bowl and gets pounded, BYU fans are going to pile it on. We wouldn't expect anything less from the Ute faithful if the same thing happened to BYU. Wait, I seem to remember some piling on after BYU lost to Arizona in Las Vegas.

    What goes around comes around.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 8, 2011 1:38 p.m.


    Did I just read your comment right? BYU did not get invited to the PAC because of the ADVANTAGE they have in money available to spend on facilities. Thanks for the compliment, but you and your Ute buddies are making me dizzy.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 8, 2011 1:24 p.m.


    There is no doubt springmobile is a nice facility and it is great the utes have it to play in, it just isn't their own. You are correct that having that sort of partnership is a good one. But we are having a discussion on which school owns the better facilities here and that is hands down BYU and you have aknowledged some of the reasons why. But as I said utah's facilities are not poor and I expect them to keep improving with the cash they are now getting. But they will probably always have a disadvantage to BYU in that area because they will never have the financial backing BYU has. Plus BYU's backer insists all facilities be top of the line, first class, etc.

    I have seen the preliminary plans for the new utah football facility and it is going to be excellent. If utah is smart, and I think Chris Hill is smart, they will invest 1st in the facilities that will give them a return on the investment and then move on to things they need but don't give them a return. I'm sure a plan is in place.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 8, 2011 1:09 p.m.


    Try to stay on the topic of athletic facilities. LES is a much nicer stadium than RES. The visitor lockers at RES are like a dungeon, among other things. It's a nice place to watch a game, but like it or not, LES still seats about 20,000 more than RES.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 8, 2011 1:02 p.m.


    Legacy seats;)

    Hope that library helps U win some basketball games.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 8, 2011 12:57 p.m.


    Anyone who has been to both stadiums recognizes right off the bat that RES is by far the better facility.

    I know we have been talking primarily about sport facilities but someone suggested that I take a walk through the facilities. Well, I don't have access to the bowels of sports facilities at BYU or the U but I did earn degrees from both schools and I have been inside virtually every academic building on both campuses and I have sat in classrooms in many of them and I can tell you honestly that I did not detect much difference between the quality of the facilities of the two schools. However, right now the "new" completely rebuilt Marriott Library at the U is head and shoulders above the Lee Library at BYU. If you have not visited the Marriott Library since its completion you need to go there for the experience. It is astounding and from what I hear makes it the best Library right now in the PAC 12 even better than Stanford and Washington.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 8, 2011 9:51 a.m.


    If you cosign on a mortgage what does that make you? It makes you more than a "renter" which is what you are claiming the U is at Spring Mobile. Anyway, as MormonUte points out USC uses the Coliseum and UCLA uses the Rose Bowl. For years USC basketball played in the LA Sports Arena until they built their own five years ago. So what? I would think you would be a big supporter of public-private partnerships to get more efficiency out of facilities.

    Thanks for the information on how BYU funds facilities. That was revealing and the first time I have heard that from a BYU fan. Bottom line is that is why the PAC 10 presidents rejected BYU and why the MWC made so serious attempt to keep BYU around. No one can compete with that type of financial support. BYU fans call it anti Mormon bias I call it simple economics.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    May 8, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    M. Ute

    It wasn't the loss at the bowl, it was the manner in which the loss happened and the other 2 losses and the near losses at AFA, SDSU and BYU.

    It's the quality of the game and the players. This coming season is not going to be like it was last year. It can't be because every Ute fan says the quality of the teams in the PAC is so much better than the MWC.

    What most Ute fans are denying is the simple fact that this year's team is not last year's team. Your QB is not a 100% and several players are missing. Spring camp was less than stellar.

    I hope the Utes can pull it together but I'm expecting a .500 season at best. If it's more, great. If not, I told you so.

    From stomping cupcakes to being one is how I look at it.

    You can't be a mediocre team from a mediocre conference and expect to be the greatest in a bigger, better conference. I keep hearing "you can't have it both ways".

    We shall see.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    May 8, 2011 8:30 a.m.

    The team in Provo failed to crack the Top 25.

    Vegas Bowl invites and early departures from the NCAA aren't going to get you far in the world of college sports.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 8, 2011 8:22 a.m.

    Duckhunter brings up a point about BYU facilities and financial resources and he is in the same camp as almost all BYU fans are in stating that as a private university BYU always has and always will have better facilities and more financial support than most state schools. For the most part that is true and I have come to believe that is one if not the main reason why BYU was excluded from the PAC 12 expansion last year. The PAC 12 state schools are already competing against two private universities in Stanford and USC both of which like BYU are well funded and potentially facility rich. That plus the fact that the tuition rate at BYU is a bargain puts BYU at a competitive advantage. When annual tuition at USC is $40,000 and Stanford is much higher vs. BYU tuition at about $10,000 then BYU can do more with their athletic scholarships. I believe the state schools in the PAC 10 did not want to compete with this and thus said "no" to BYU. BYU's own success in this realm hurt them.


    Love your endzone seats at BYU to justify your comment?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 8, 2011 7:52 a.m.


    So how does that make it a facility of the u? It doesn't. It just means they get some revenue to help pay for the place by renting it out to utah. Claiming it belongs to the university is one of your more outlandish claims.

    BYU's stadium was renovated and expanded several years before your claim. You need a fact checker.

    @mormon ute

    I recently finished some contracted work at BYU's track and was paid by the university. Yes there are donors to help pay for alot of BYU's athletic pursuits but you are simply ignorant on this subject. Most of BYU's facilities are paid for, and maintained, by the school itself. They don't run to a donor every single time they do anything. It would be great if donors paid for everything but they don't.

    You are partially correct in that the church has asked the athletic department to pay for itself but that is a mandate on its operations, not on its billion dollars worth of facilities. The department is self funded through revenue and runs a surplus, a remarkable feat, but it doesn't just pay for facilities.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    May 8, 2011 7:12 a.m.

    Mormon Ute

    Do the teams in the Pac play better football than the MWC?

    Is the Pac known as the 'Conference of Champions'?

    Do the Utes have a long history of winning road games in the Pac?

    Did the Utes not have problems against better teams last year?

    Did the Utes get 'lucky' against AFA, SDSU and BYU last year?

    How many points did the offense put up against better teams last year?

    How's your QB this year, how about those back-ups?

    How's that rugby player working out?

    Got any great news on the new offense from Spring camp?

    Are the coaches as optimistic as the fans?

    Are fans worried and saying things like 'cautious optimism' about their team?

    What's your favorite motel chain?

    Is it available in Las Vegas?

    Good luck in the Pac. 8-4 is wishful thinking. It wasn't the fact of losing just one bowl game, it was how the Utes lost it.

    A new offense, with obviously less key players, going into a bigger conference somehow does not equate to an 8-4, 7-5, or 6-6 season.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 7, 2011 11:17 p.m.


    I have done work on both stadiums. BYU's is better....without question. Huntsman Center seats 15,000. Marriott Center seats 22,700. That's a 34% difference. To put it in perspective, would you like a 34% raise? I will say it again, BYU is light years ahead of Utah. As Chrisssy would say, game set match.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:35 p.m.


    Those three loses were to teams of much better caliber than the teams BYU lost to and BYU's rebound came against the same teams the Utes were pounding on early in the season. I think you called them cupcakes. So BYU's momentum was built on sub-par teams many of whom had losing records. As far as losing bowl games goes, BYU has lost something like 55% of their bowl games and from 1998 through 2005 lost 4 in a row. Meanwhile, Utah had the longest bowl winning streak in the nation until last season. I don't think criticizing one bowl loss of the Utes is going to get you very far.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:26 p.m.


    First, how many top notch college football programs around the country rent space for some of their sports? USC renting the colesium comes to mind right off. No disgrace in renting space.

    Second, you say BYU is private and owned by deep pockets as if to say the Church spends money on the athletic program. You need to check your facts there. President Hinckley stated publicly that not a dime of tithing money is used to support the athletic programs at Church schools. I'm sure there are some pretty large donors to the athletic program, but let's not confuse that with Church resources.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:18 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar,

    I have some problems with your logic. First, the 95% average attendance doesn't mean the stadium was that full for all home games. Some were more full, others were less full. I don't know the exact numbers, but those Wyoming and New Mexico games were likely on the less full side.

    Second, how do you justify expanding a stadium that is not full every game? All that means is you end up with more empty seats in a bigger stadium which takes that sellout percentage down further.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 7, 2011 9:17 p.m.

    When Mayor Deedee Corridini signed the City on to a $20 million revenue bond to build the baseball park it would not have gone through without the guaranteed participation of the U. It's going to be the home of U baseball for a long time.

    Up until 1964 Utah had the larger football stadium. BYU's was located next to the hillside by the Smith Fieldhouse. In 1964 they moved it to the current location put in a track and built the east and west stands.

    In 1984 both undertook stadium projects. Utah took the track out lowered the field and added the south endzone. BYU took the track out and added the two endzones and for the first time really became the much larger stadium.

    In 1998-99 Utah undertook a complete makeover and basically replaced the existing one with a brand new one leaving the south endzone. Though smaller Utah's stadium has been the state of the art facility for some time now.

    As for the Marriott Center and Huntsman Center both are about the same size physically but the Huntsman is all chairs and the Marriott is half bleachers.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 7, 2011 8:50 p.m.

    Can I just say that this has become no fun to read.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    May 7, 2011 8:49 p.m.

    Actually, sammyg, there will still be cupcakes. WSU is not exactly a powerhouse, Arizona has had quite a few bad years, and don't count on UCLA putting up a strong team. And the way you hear some "Ute fans" talk, you would think BYU is a cupcake (which they bought out of a game with BSU in order to add to their schedule).

    I would have to add that 8-4 is possible for Utah this season. So is 7-5, which might be more likely. You shouldn't take any game for granted, guaranteeing a win (see BYU-USU 2010, Utah-UNLV 2007). However, here are the probable games I see for Utah, games which Utah might lose: USC, BYU, WU, ASU, Pitt, and OSU. They could win all, they could lose all, who knows? They'll likely lose about 4 of them (my guess is USC, BYU, ASU, Pitt).

    For BYU, the probable games are Miss, Texas, Utah, UCF, OSU, TCU, and Hawaii. More probables than Utah, but BYU is likely to win more of these. I say they lose to about 2 or 3 (my guess is Texas and TCU, but BYU could win all).

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    May 7, 2011 8:13 p.m.

    "byu just had a "crowton type year" last year. It very well may happen again. "

    Let's just say that any team can have a bad cycle and for anyone to believe that BYU's 2010 was something normal, it was far from it. It was an experiment that blew up in the lab and the formula was quickly changed. For a rebuilding year lessons were learned and players were developed. Momentum was regained.

    Utes had the opposite and now they're going to a tougher conference. I'm very doubtful for your 8-4 season first trip through. Those three losses last year literally took a 10-3 season, which normally is a good one and threw in the toilet for a year or two. Losing a bowl game is like losing a full head of steam before climbing a hill. That 'hill' is the Pac.

    We see words like 'cautious optimism' thrown around. It's 'code' for expect some bad things, not as good as we thought, we hope things will work out, etc.

    Enjoy that #20 because this next decade is going to be far different. No more cupcakes.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 7, 2011 7:47 p.m.


    Spring Mobile is on no way a facility of the university if utah. They rent it. Period. The only athletic facility that utah has that is of the quality of the ones at BYU is RES. True it is not as large but it is a very nice stadium. The new track at the u is also very nice but it is not of the quality of BYU's.

    I contract alot of work at athletic facilities and have preformed on just about every athletic facility at both schools and BYU's facilities are absolutely superior. But the assertion that utah's are not of good quality is not correct as they have alot of nice athletic facilities and I'm sure that with the infusion of cash they're getting they will be upgrading existing ones and building new ones that they need.

    The truth is very few schools facilities compare to BYU's. Most schools do not have the financial backing BYU has. Everything BYU has is 1st rate, just like everything the church has. That is not a knock on utah, it is a state school with limitations. BYU is private and owned by deep pockets.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    May 7, 2011 5:31 p.m.

    Mormon Ute, I think BYU is not concerned about filling its stadium. Even last season the stadium was 95% full, even to watch a sub-500 team (at the time) play against teams like Wyoming and New Mexico. They could certainly use an expansion.

    "Even last year in what many considered a down year for Utah, Utah still beat byu and still went 10-3"


    I hate to break it to you, but that season was only one of 6 seasons in almost a hundred years of football that the Utes got 10 wins or more. If that's a down year, then that only shows that Utah has had very few good years.

    However, you are right in calling out BYU fans saying that Utah will never get a BCS game again or BYU will never have a Crowton era again. I say never say never. Anything could happen. Utah could go BCS as soon as next year. So could BYU. Utah could have a losing season next year. So could BYU. Either team could win a National Championship ten years from now. Who knows until it happens?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 7, 2011 4:32 p.m.

    1-Byu's indoor facility was built before Utah's was. Spence Eccles built Utah's on the cheap, to appease Urban Meyer, he fled anyway. Compared to BYU's, it's a dump, comparable to Utah State's.

    2-The U of U did not contribute in any way shape or form to the construction of Qwest field, Franklin Covey Field or now named, Spring Mobile. Get real!

    Utah baseball lost it's field at Red Butte, to make way for Olympic Housing.
    they built a make-shift facility on Sunnyside Ave., with the backstop right up to the street, they did not have the sense to move it up far enough to accomodate a Grandstand. Sunnyside is their "Official Field".
    Not Spring Mobile. Who are yuou trying to fool?

    Einer Neilson seated abt. 4k, Smith Fieldhouse seated 10k, so even in the 50's and 60's, BYU was more than doubling Utah in attendance.

    They ybuilt the Marriott Center to accomodate fans, not to follow the Utes. In 40 years BYU has been top 20 in attendance 36 times and top ten more than 25 times.

    Utah today, can't fill their 15k seat arena. BYUwas5thNationally.

  • IndianaCoug Bloomington, IN
    May 7, 2011 3:09 p.m.

    RE: KG

    "byu just had a "crowton type year" last year."

    No they didn't. True, they were 7-6 which is a down year. True they dropped games to USU and the U. It wasn't a pretty year... However, "Crowton" years were marked by scandal, mediocrity, and some despair. Last year wasn't like that at all. As a Cougarfan I LOVED being a fan last year. The team made amazing progress throughout the season and considering all the young talent it was a blast watching the players develop and even come away with an impressive bowl win (albeit against a very mediocre team). I have very high hopes for this year (9-3 or 10-2, with another decent bowl victory). It will be another year with a lot of young talent, but it won't be a rebuilding year--the Cougs should be pretty decent. Go Cougs!

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:47 a.m.


    I would think BYU would be interested in filling LES a few more times each season before springing for an expensive expansion. BYU does a respectable job with attendance, but percentage wise you've got some seats to fill. I'm not saying it won't happen one day, but with your home schedule next season I'd be surprised if that attendance percentage doesn't drop some. Maybe in a few years when you have time to get some better teams on your home schedule you'll see the attendance results you'll need to justify the expansion.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:39 a.m.


    Forget about using the size of the Marriott Center for bragging rights. We all know the only reason it was built that big was for the weekly devotionals and graduations. As for remembering the Utes, let's see nearly every media outlet in the country is talking about the new configuration of the PAC-12 starting this July and the Utes are part of that analysis. ESPN has run several features touching on how the Utes will do in the PAC-12 and their analysts have us finishing around 8-4 or 9-3 in football. So I for one am not worried about being forgotten.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:32 a.m.


    In my book that's bashing. Especially with respect to the olympic sports. I'm not going to repeat it, but I already pointed out to you how well our teams have done historically and recently in all of those sports. You simply discounted my statements with your refrain about the MWC not being a good comparison to the PAC-12. That may be the case, but our teams have also done well in NCAA tournaments and against non-conference competition. So when you express an opinion that is overly negative and ignores the facts, yes, that is bashing. Claiming our basketball team will never make it back to promininence is also bashing, because you can't know that. We have a new coaching staff and have proven in the past our ability to compete at the highest levels with the right coaches in place. So your opinion is not based on historical statistics or any fact. It is a negative opinion based on your dislike of the Utes and therefore is bashing.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:21 a.m.


    You are misquoting Chris Hill. He has never used the term "grossly outclassed" when comparing facilities. His top priority right now is to get the women a softball stadium, put in some outdoor tennis courts and build a new training center next to the Huntsman Center for basketball. That does not sound like things are in dire straights to me. Most universities are trying to build separate training facilities for basketball even in the PAC 12. A BYU friend of mine who lived in Tucson for seven years and has been to the McKale Center there many times and visited every PAC 10 basketball facility tells me that the U's Huntsman Center is the finest except for Oregon's brand new facility.

    The U just opened a brand new state of the art track facility last August. A new student center for athletes was built about six years ago. The swimming and diving complex was completely renovated about 12 years ago. A gymnastics training center was built about 8 years ago. The U is more than just "renting" Spring Mobile ball park. They are assisting in retiring the revenue bonds that the City put in place.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 7, 2011 10:03 a.m.


    I won't reveal where I currently work but I have worked in government for the past 31 years and I can tell you that at no time does the U have to come to the Salt Lake City Planning Commission to get a permit to build anything on State property. None. The U may get permits for plumbing, electrical etc once the project is started but they need no permission from the City to construct a project. Westminster College located not too far from the U must come to the Planning Commission for approvals because they are a private school on private property like BYU.

    Many schools, including USC and UCLA, work jointly with other entities for their facilities. Why have duplication if the facility can be jointly used? Aren't you a believer in efficiency? Salt Lake City and the U's joint use of the ball park makes complete sense and it is the finest park any university team has in this State. When the U gets mens soccer going the same will happen with Rio Tinto stadium. I was pointing out that the U has led BYU on many fronts facility wise in comparing.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    May 7, 2011 9:24 a.m.

    Sammy G and Bluto,

    Those are some big words for a fan of a team that went 7-6 last year. The majority of byu fans I know talk like they are the best team in the nation every year and when they fall short all they say is "wait til next year". You guys are no different.

    Your predictions of the fall of Utah and the rise of byu are purely opinion.

    Bluto, "Utah wins this little exercise on two main criteria.
    1-Two BCS Bowls and
    2-Three sweet sixteen's, including a finals NCAA game.
    Question: Will Utah ever see either again? Answer....NO"

    How do you know Utah will never be able to do that again? Answer...You don't.

    "Additionally, BYU had to factor in the Crowton years..

    Question: Will BYU ever see those Crowton type years, again? Answer....NO"

    byu just had a "crowton type year" last year. It very well may happen again.
    My point is that you don't know what the future holds for either team. You are blind by your hate for Utah.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 7, 2011 8:26 a.m.

    "So, Utah is always playing catch up in terms of facilities. Let's look at some timing:
    Utah builds Einar Neilson Fieldhouse BYU follows with the Smith Fieldhouse
    Utah builds the Special Events Center BYU follows with the Marriott Center
    Utah builds an indoor practice facility BYU follows with an indoor practice facility that you can punt in, Wow.
    Utah joins with Salt Lake City in building a AAA ball park BYU follows with money from Larry Miller to build a nice baseball facility."

    Stating that Utah's facilities are older that BYU's does not help make your point. Smith Fieldhouse? That WAS where the coaches offices were. They now have Legacy Hall. Have you even been to BYU and seen the facilities that have been built in recent years? BYU is light years ahead of Utah. It's not meant to be an insult.

    Adding 20,000 seats to LES, and upgrading the rest of the stadium is well worth the money that will be spent. They are also talking about adding luxury boxes on the East side.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    May 7, 2011 8:25 a.m.


    Spin if it makes you feel better, but even Chris Hill has said that many of Utah's athletic facilities are sub-par will be grossly outclassed in the PAC 12. The only reason the Utes rent Spring Mobile for baseball is because they can't afford a baseball park of their own. Do you really think recruits are going to be impressed with rented space four miles from campus?

  • aggieblue Saint George, UT
    May 7, 2011 8:22 a.m.

    Check out rivals for the high school players. You pay big bucks to attend their little camps,buy your kid some kind of Rivals 100 or whatever. They are in it for their own purpose and the money. I really don't take what they say with a lot of value.

    The time span used for this "ranking" is so arbitrary and like the statistics, you can make it be what you want. I know what I want and now I need to make the figures work. Sound familar.

    We only seem to acknowledge the polls etc that support our position and ignore the rest. This is the exact reason that the BCS will be coming down, sooner than anyone thinks.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 7, 2011 8:16 a.m.


    The city of Salt Lake requires the State of Utah to purchase building permits...It's the law and I will not argue over something so foolish.

    Borrowing a baseball park from the Bees just proves my point.

    Are you really going to compare Jerry World, where the Super Bowl was played to the U's indoor facility?

    I was not trying to insult you with my interpretation of "program poor". I was simply stating the facts. You need to visit the facilities of both programs and you would see that the Y is way ahead of where Utah is; plain and simple. Both schools will continue to update. Utah will have more money for updates. Good for Utah, they need it.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 6, 2011 11:14 p.m.


    There are many different types of building permits. The ones you saw for the housing at the U were probably for plumbing or electricity etc. The U is not required to get a building permit from Salt Lake City to conform to zoning or other site specific requirements because state agencies are not under local control. BYU must get those types of building permits from Provo City.

    Tonight I took in a Bees baseball game at Spring Mobile ball park. The front entrance is marked with two large signs that read "Home of U of U Baseball". What a great facility. Salt Lake City is in partnership with the U and the Bees to manage and operate this great ball park.

    I find it funny that another poster would knock the U's indoor practice facility because a punted football can hit the rafters. NFL punters have hit the video boards in Jerry Jones new indoor stadium in Dallas Texas. I guess Jerry should just keep the roof open.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:37 p.m.

    sammyg | 8:14 p.m.

    We are all aware of how Utah has fared against BYU recently, especially in basketball.

    Thaere is that tiny fact that Utah has BCS wins, and rivals doesn't count the NC. They don't count the recent head to head.

    I would call the Y and the U pretty close right now, and the fact that here, in Utah, we have two of the top 26 athletic programs in the nation fighting it out gives us some pretty great weekends.

    Now, the "game, set match" by ChrissyB was stupid after watching the basketball season, but in reality, BYU controls their own destiny. The U could do well in the PAC. The BCS could be "blowed up" in 5 years, and both schools could be sitting pretty.

    I don't think this is the time to cross the finish line and declare a winner by any means. (ie--game,set,match).

    Rather, this is a starting point, and I expect in ten years to see both teams in the top 15.

    Imagine that, here in Northen Utah, two premiere college programs.

    Now if we could class up some of the arrogant Ute/BYU fans...

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:07 p.m.


    It is very close, especially over the last decade.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 9:31 p.m.

    Since the final four appearance is at the beginning of the time period, doing the same analysis after next year probably has both schools approximately tied which is fitting since that's when rivalries are best right?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 6, 2011 9:06 p.m.

    I think for a snapshot, 12 year analysis, this is fair. However, we all know that "Legacy Programs" are built over "Generations", not Snapshots in time.

    Utah wins this little exercise on two main criteria.

    1-Two BCS Bowls and
    2-Three sweet sixteen's, including a finals NCAA game.

    Question: Will Utah ever see either again? Answer....NO

    Additionally, BYU had to factor in the Crowton years..

    Question: Will BYU ever see those Crowton type years, again? Answer....NO.

    Therefore, for BYU to be within 6 points of Utah when all things are considered, not too bad.

    Now, to present tense and Reality....

    Utah had (past tense) a nice decade, nobody denies this. However, this is their maximum ceiling, never to be matched again. It's all downhill from here for the Utes. We know it and deep down, they do as well.

    BYU however, will just plug along, building on it's already Secure Legacy and Brand. One which took decades to establish. Wannabees think it can be done in merely one, not so.

    Utah's future? A place in the Land of Obscurity in the Household of Wazzu.

    BYU's future? Exposure with an upward trajectory.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    May 6, 2011 8:14 p.m.

    Yeah, poor BYU, just hanging on to the coat tails of the Utes.

    I was in the Marriot Center this past Sunday and noticed the brass plaque there. I was curious as to how old this dilapidated, hardly used, insignificant, structure was. Dedicated 40 yrs ago this year.

    Holds 22,700, more than the majority of other Div. 1 facilities and more than the piddly 15,000 little brother facility called the Huntsman Center.

    Stadium, same story.

    Does anyone really remember the U in anything other than gymnastics?

    Sure they do! National TV embarrasments against TCU, ND, and BSU... last year!

    Enjoy your skewed and stewed #20 silly ranking. Enjoy this pinnacle of success. Does get much better than this?

    If BYU, a little insignificant religious school, is only 6 behind you, you don't have much to toot your horn about. I thought 'Big Boy' schools were really supposed to be BIG?

    U ain't!

    BYU has beaten you guys several times so don't think for a moment that this silly article means a thing.

    BYU is taking the road less travelled... something U can never do.

    BYU #26 and still more relevant.

    Boohoo to U.

  • BluCoug Provo, UT
    May 6, 2011 6:07 p.m.

    WOW! They must have not followed the ute basketball program too closely the last several years. Thankfully for the utes sake, the utes gymnastics team stepped up and covered the spread for the basketball shortcomings.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 6, 2011 5:31 p.m.

    I went to both the Y and the U - so I could care less if either is ranked above the other. I do love the rivalry though.

    That said, what a bogus piece. Some arbitrary measures made up by people with way too much time on their hands.

    Without a playoff system, the football side is a popularity contest, As it is such, why not then weigh in how many people viewed their games, or attended. How about donations or revenue brought in. Since we don't have a competitive playoff systems, how good a Boise would stack up agains an Ohio may never really know.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 5:20 p.m.


    And going back 2 more years to BYU's top 5 ranked Cottonbowl winning football team would jump them up the rankings also. I suppose they had to cut it off someplace.

  • chubbymagoo Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 5:13 p.m. did not include Utah's Final Four year unless the dates in the article are fouled up. This analysis only goes back to the 98-99 academic year, which started the fall after the Final Four appearance. Including that incredible run would cause Utah to jump up in these rankings.

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    May 6, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    Who really cares which team makes it higher on somebody's contrived scale?

    Let's just play the game!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 5:11 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    Disagreeing with you that the baseball team being in 2nd place in the mwc is some stellar accomplishment is hardly bashing them. Once again you are oversensitive to any comment about utah that isn't effusive praise.

    But even so I would love to see some of the quotes I made "bashing" those sports. I admit I have "bashed" the basketball program but the truth is it is terrible so there isn't much positive to say there.

    I also believe utah will be a mediocre pac10 athletic program. That isn't "bashing" them I just don't think they will compete all that well in very many sports. The pac10 is noted for the olympic sports and utah is not all that great in any of them, outside of gymnastics, in the mwc so why would I think they are going to take the pac10 by storm?

    I think utah will have occasional success in football, meaning once every 4-5 years they will get 9-10 wins, but will not be a dominant program. I don't know if mens basketball is every going to comeback.

    So is that bashing or just an opinion you dislike?

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 5:02 p.m.

    Congrats to both teams for their high rankings. Not bad for a couple of teams from a non-BCS league. Here's hoping that Utah can keep it up in the PAC 12 and that BYU can as an Independent. I think it would be difficult for anyone to say that either program is not deserving of being in a BCS league.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:48 p.m.

    People are citing "head to head" record back to the beginning of time. Really? I hope they remember that the next time the say 1984 doesn't count but 1944 does.

    While we are citing history, kh, last year was considered a "down year" for the Utes? By whom? They returned their QB and a gajillion other starters. The "down year" was BYU's, who returned very few, including at QB. The score was the score, the Utes won, but claiming down year -- true Utes are rolling their eyes at you, girl!

    BTW, it was Utes #4 in 2004, #5 in 2008. If you are going to cite it, know it.

    Phenomenal for two teams in the mountains, really. Chris Hill better be making a grundle.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:47 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    I will back you up as far as having confidence in Utah's athletic programs. You are one of a few Utah fans on these boards who is actually reasonable. I'm sure AZguy was just taking an easy shot at you. I think I have even taken a shot or two at you in good fun.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    May 6, 2011 4:41 p.m.

    First it's great that two Utah programs rank so high in a national round up like this. And given the parameters of the survey, the ranking seems to be about right.

    However, we all know that statistics can be altered to say just about anything we want them to. For example, if the study would have focused on a five year time frame, BYU would have been ahead of Utah with a slight lead in football and a huge lead in basketball.

    If the study focused on a 30 year period, BYU would have a huge lead in football and Utah would have a lead in basketball with the total points going to BYUs favor.

    If the round up would have focused on all sports, BYU would have a huge advantage over Utah with any time frame in the last 30 years.

    Bottom line: both programs are in a much better place and will get more national exposure going forward than they would have gotten in the MWC.

  • Duckhunterr Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:40 p.m.

    Mormon Ute,

    I haven't a shred of credibility. I sleep with a nightlight to avoid getting bad dreams for crying out loud!

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:35 p.m.


    I do have plenty of confidence in our athletic programs to do well in the PAC-12, but there are plenty who don't believe that and some of them are regular contributors to the comments here. That's where that comment comes from, no inferiority complex for me.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:24 p.m.


    Still avoiding the truth to save face? In direct responses to some of my comments you have taken the opportunity to point out that in your opinion the sports I mentioned have done nothing at the U. You might recall in response to your comments I posted a listed of titles, national tournament appearances and other accomplishments as well as current records from those programs. Even after that you proceeded to put down those other sports and claim BYU superiority in each of them. You're losing credibility here.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:24 p.m.

    DevilishUte- Point taken. Duckhunter=classy? More like Duckhunter=A thorn to Utah fans

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:23 p.m.

    "they are talking about filling in the four gaps in the endzone corners".

    Wow. That will certainly add some prime seating. Seems hardly worth the money that will be spent just to fill in the four gaps by the endzones. So, what happened 30 years ago is still relevant according to your comment because BYU still can't go higher with decks because of the nearby neighborhoods.

    So, Utah is always playing catch up in terms of facilities. Let's look at some timing:
    Utah builds Einar Neilson Fieldhouse BYU follows with the Smith Fieldhouse
    Utah builds the Special Events Center BYU follows with the Marriott Center
    Utah builds an indoor practice facility BYU follows with an indoor practice facility that you can punt in, Wow.
    Utah joins with Salt Lake City in building a AAA ball park BYU follows with money from Larry Miller to build a nice baseball facility.

    I could go on and on but you get the drift.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    By the way Dutchman, you need to go back to work in the Mayor' office if you don't think the U of U needs a building permit. DFCM(Division of Facilities and Construction Management) does all supervision for State building projects, and when they did the student housing for the Olympic Village, there were copies of the building permits on site.

  • DevilishUte Tempe, AZ
    May 6, 2011 4:09 p.m.


    My previous comment was specifically about his post to Mormon Ute @3:21 PM. Why would he write all the rude things about him on a board regarding sports? It makes no sense and has no point. Anyway....

    Duckhunter = classy

  • Duckhunterr Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:08 p.m.

    my last posts indicate that i have nothing else to say. my desperation has reached an all time high and i dont want to appear any more foolish. please be nice to me.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:05 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter - I would submit that both sides have their share of "classless lowlifes it has for fans". Your way out of line on that one.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:02 p.m.


    I'm sure you feel that way about wedgie, christina b, howie, etc. as well.

    Of course you don't. You see most people have selective outrage and you are one of those people. When it is your school, fanbase, team, getting put down you are offended and put out. When it is your rivals it is all in good fun or else deserved because you don't like them anyway.

    I understand this dynamic which is why I never take any of this stuff personally. But for the oversensitive utah "fan" like yourself, or pebbles, it is a personal insult so deep that it ruins your weekend.


  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 4:02 p.m.


    Weak sauce. Bring up a reason that's not 30 years old. Besides, they are talking about filling in the four gaps in the endzone corners and upgrades.

    Yes Utah is far behind. Have you even seen both facilities. For example, you can't even practice field goals or punts inside of Utah's indoor facility without bouncing footballs off the rafters. That is just one of many.

    As I said, Utah will get there; especially with the money they will get, but you have to remember that as they upgrade, so will the Y.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:55 p.m.



  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:54 p.m.


    All I read there was "whine, whiney, whine, whimper, whine, whine."


  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:54 p.m.

    Hey guys, why don't you back off Duckhunter or back up your claims. There are some articles on here with a lot of his comments. It can't be that hard to find a classless comment by him if what you say is true.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    May 6, 2011 3:51 p.m.

    Utah has had a good run in football. Important to remember BYU had 3 seasons that were their worst in 30 years for football. 26th is nothing to sneeze at. Can't wait for next season.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:46 p.m.

    "There is also talk of upgrading and expanding LES in the near future."

    Best of luck with that and I mean it. I was an aide to Provo Mayor Jim Ferguson the last time LES was expanded. BYU wanted to deck it on both sides then but the neighborhoods around LES objected because it would permanently place those homes in the shade all year around. Mayor Ferguson sided with the neighbors and the end zones were built instead. All heck broke loose. Hate mail arrived from all over the country from the "loving" BYU fans in every state that make up that "national" fan base. Well, those neighborhoods are still there and I don't believe the people want to live without sun light. BYU must get a building permit from Provo City to build anything unlike the U which as a State Agency does not need to get a local building permit.

    Facilities? Utah AD Chris Hill has stated many times that the facilities are not that far behind. He keeps mentioning a softball stadium for the women and basketball training center as priorities. If that is it that is not bad. Tell me what is so dire.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    May 6, 2011 3:33 p.m.

    As per Ducky "You see you simply think I bash the school and its programs when in fact I spend my time bashing the classless lowlifes it has for fans." This from guy who is on any and every Utah story looking to stir things up. You can tell he is sensitive little fellow who's meaning in life centers around being able to leave his half cent in with regards to the Utes. Then when called out he claims he isn't such a troll though his words defy him. Ducky, you are basically a joke to us Ute fans; always good for a laugh or an eye roll.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    @ Veracity

    What do you mean "when it still doesn't work"?

    It has "worked" just fine. 13-0 in 2004, 13-0 in 2008, top 4 in the nation both years. Even last year in what many considered a down year for Utah, Utah still beat byu and still went 10-3, which is about the ceiling for byu. (10-3 or 11-2 seasons)

    I think it has worked quite well and will continue to improve with more $ and better facilities.

    How can you argue against that?

  • DevilishUte Tempe, AZ
    May 6, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    @Duckhunter (3:21 PM post)

    There is a difference between making salient points, providing observations or taking playful shots at the other school, but you've crossed the line of deceny and represented yourself and the school you cheer for, poorly. Oops.

    Keep it classy, my man.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:26 p.m.


    Relax. I wasn't trying to take away from Utah's success. Just stating the facts. You sound a little childish when you start spouting things like "That obviously has done wonders for your football team.". Yes they have. Look at the top 25 finishes, NC, Heisman, etc.

    Utah will catch up, but it won't be fast. What you don't understand is all the BYU fans with deep pockets who are willing to pay for whatever BYU needs. Legacy Hall was started because of a $50mil donation from a fan in Arizona. When BYU needs facilities, they put the word out and Cougar Club members show up with their wallets.

    Utah will do fine in improving facilities, but you need to remember they are 25 years behind.

  • Duckhunterr Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    Thats just the thing veracity, we aren't as good as the Utes. We lag behind. Seriously. It hurts bad, and I know it hurts you too brother. I mean really, we have a once in a generation basketball player and we only make the sweet 16? A mere dozen years ago, thats when Utah's season began! We lag behind! We will never get to where Utah is and has been. And I hate it, but its the cold hard truth.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:21 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    Uh fail. Pointing out the current state of a program is not bashing it. I have made alot of fun of utahs basketball program, mostly because oversensitive pansies like yourself get in a huff about it, but I have never "bashed" utahs baseball, volleyball, rugby, womens basketball, softball and womens soccer teams. I never even read articles about any of them except maybe the baseball team and I've never bashed them.

    You see you simply think I bash the school and its programs when in fact I spend my time bashing the classless lowlifes it has for fans. There is a real difference there. I never said I never do it, I said I seldom do it and that is a fact. When I do it I do it purely because it makes ute "fans" like yourself all but bawl.

    Maybe you should ratchet up your reading comprehension and then come on back.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:20 p.m.

    "if we were able to remove the results from the Crowton years and replace them with results that are more in line with our historical ones"

    Sure why not, most BYU fans remove the first 70 years or so of head to head competition between the schools as it is now anyway...

    You have plenty of precendence!

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:19 p.m.


    When you do get those great facalities, what will be your excuse then when it still doesn't work?

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:17 p.m.


    Kazamm...your wish came true.

  • DevilishUte Tempe, AZ
    May 6, 2011 3:14 p.m.

    There are those among us that think that $ will solve the Utes problems. However, one need look no further than Wash St. or Iowa St. or most teams from the Big East (football) to conclude that $ alone won't be a difference maker.

    BUT when you combine increased $ PLUS the proven track record of Whit and company, Utah's future is bright! The Utes own the series record with the Cougars, even with "inferior" facilities." Imagine what they will do when they inject some of this $ into facilities and they have equivalent or better facilities!

  • Duckhunterr Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:08 p.m.

    I sure wish that BYU was as good as the Utes.

  • AZguy Phoenix, AZ
    May 6, 2011 3:08 p.m.

    This cougar fan finds this article to be spot on. Just chill Mormon Ute. No fluff, no spin, no nothing. It is cold hard facts over the last 10 years. BYU had three losing football seasons in that time and another year without a bowl invite, so I don't find any shame in being ranked 26 nor being 6 spots below the U.

    If the stated points system is accurate, the 7 points for the Basketball runner up will be falling off the rankings soon, so hopefully the U can pick up those points elsewhere.

    Mormon Ute-you state that this will bring credibility to the PAC-10 invite. No offense, but that shows a tiny bit of an inferiority complex. That somehow you doubt the validity of the invite. Just saying--have some confidence. The U deserved the PAC-10 invite and U will do well in FB and survive in BB. Like my former coach used to say 'when you get to the end zone, act like you have been there and that you will be back.' THanks for the kind words about the Cougs in that same post.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:08 p.m.

    @ Veracity,

    If you think Utah is going to tank in football in the PAC 12, then where do you think byu would be in the PAC 12 if they were invited? Below Utah, that's where they would be. By bashing Utah you are bashing byu.

    @ Cougars1,

    Wow, byu has nice facilities. Great job. That obviously has done wonders for your football team. 17-16 pal. If I were you I wouldn't care about how nice your facilities are unless you're winning games. byu went 7-6 last year and have no BCS bowls.

    By the way, Utah will catch up in facilities real quick with the lucrative tv deal from the PAC 12. Then what are you going to say?

  • Napolean Dynamite Magna, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:03 p.m.

    cougars1- Ya'll ain't got room for all the primary kids that want to come sing children's songs at the football games?

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    To hedgehog @ 2:33 pm - my comment was meant to be "tounge in cheek" to show Hondo how ridiculous the statement is that the NCAA was trying to "hold them back." Don't think the refs were heaving up 40 foot threes and drawing nothing but air.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:56 p.m.


    I believe program poor would mean facilities. Take a walk around BYU and look at the facilities and it is very apparent that Utah is light years behind the Y in facilities.

    There is also talk of upgrading and expanding LES in the near future.

  • Alpha Chicken Orem, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:46 p.m.

    Hondo, Yes BYU does have a great fan base anywhere you go and thats mainly cause you have LDS folks anywhere you go. I happened to be in Los Angeles one year when BYU played UCLA and we wanted tickets. Guess where we got them? One of the ward members had a bunch and we went. We took some Jello too!

  • bballjunkie Cedar Hills, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:45 p.m.

    Utes will being crying when they can't compete next year and all will hear about is oh ya cougar fan at least we are in the Pac 10+2. Mark it down!

    Ductman that's, I mean Dutchman.

  • nottyou Riverton, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    Utah in the top 20? Just goes to show you that the media will tell a lie, even if the truth sounds better.

  • aggieblue Saint George, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:41 p.m.

    There is book I had in college, "How to lie with statistics" Remember according to statistics a bumble bee can't fly.

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:38 p.m.


    Utah's football program is a top tier MWC team but will only be an also-ran in the PAC 12. This means middle-of-the road towards to bottom of the PAC 12.

    Basketball would have a difficult time in Region 4 and will die a long death in the PAC 12.

    Look, nothing would make me happier than to see Utah win the PAC 12 in each program, but as my name states Veracity, I am committed to tell the truth.

    Utah is along for the ride...period.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:36 p.m.

    Pretty impressive considering the fact that the year before, Utah was the runner up in basketball.


    Those six points equate to (3) sweet sixteens or a point shy of a runner up. Not even close if you think about it.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    May 6, 2011 2:33 p.m.

    " Yes, BYU was cheated all year long in every sport/every year and they still managed to rise and shout."

    What makes you think the kewgs won't continue to be "cheated" as an independent.

    Do you think you'll get different treatment?

  • Mesa Coug Phoenix, AZ
    May 6, 2011 2:24 p.m.

    No 1984. I did the math for the benefit of the trolls that would still say that BYU can't compete with the AQ conferences. As you can see, I did not say that the u does not belong. Both of them deserve the opportunities based upon their histories not just the one that happens to be part of the right conference. If BYU can't compete, there should only be 25 teams that are part of the AQ conferences.

  • Hondo Springville, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:23 p.m.


    Utah isn't nationally relevant like BYU is (no NC, Heisman winner, Doak Walker Award winner, Outland Trophy winner, Jimmer, Matt Montague, etc). I can't prove how many fans we have but we fill stadiums and arenas all over the U.S.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:19 p.m.

    @ Hondo 2:01pm - Yes, BYU was cheated all year long in every sport/every year and they still managed to rise and shout. Go ahead and consider volleyball, rugby, tennis, track, golf, baseball, etc etc etc. Cougs are the best.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:16 p.m.

    I think many are missing the point.

    Two of the Top-26 athletic programs in the country are located here in Northern Utah.

    One is headed to the PAC-12.

    The other headed to independent.

    It's a pretty sweet position to be in, don't ya think?

  • KH Holladay, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    @ Veracity,

    Can you tell me what makes Utah "program poor".

    It certainly can't be the head to head matchup with byu, seeing as how Utah dominates in the overall record in that matchup and owns scoreboard last year.
    It can't be Utah's invitation the PAC 12 - a major upgrade from the Mountain West.
    It can't be Utah's two recent undefeated seasons in 04 and 08 and BCS bowl wins.

    So please tell me what makes Utah a "poor program".

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:05 p.m.

    Mesa Coug,

    "Therefore, there must be something else keeping them out. It certainly isn't their sport programs."

    You are absolutely right. BYU has a great sports program. If they had a big medical center, a Nobel Prize winner and no honor code (Utah does have a code of conduct which is different) they would probably be in hands down. No offense intended. Just the way it is.


    The name is Dutchman, not Ductman. Please honor that. LOL

  • Hondo Springville, UT
    May 6, 2011 2:01 p.m.

    "Therefore, there must be something else keeping them out. It certainly isn't their sport programs."

    I couldn't agree more. If it were based entirely on sports, BYU would probably be in the top 10 (I'm consider Rugby and Volleyball in there), especially if we were able to remove the results from the Crowton years and replace them with results that are more in line with our historical ones. No one else has Jimmer on their team last year, for example (NPOTY).

    This ranking sort of goes along with the poor refereeing we saw from so many of the BB games last year, even in the MC. I think the NCAA was trying to hold us back. Luckily, we had so much talent that we were able to secure a sweet 16 finish and should have gone further.

    As an Independent we will show that we have what it takes to bypass the accepted way of getting to the big games and play in Jan.

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    May 6, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    Rock Of The Marne,

    Thank you, you proved my point with the twisting of my comments to benieft you...thanks again...I could not have done it better.

    Utah is dollar rich and program poor...but then again riding on the coat tails of others is nothing new.

    It is too bad Utah can not bring something to the table to be worthy of such indulgence.

    Oh well, typical.

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    To Mesa Coug: WOW, you needed to "do the math" to figure that one out?

  • Mesa Coug Phoenix, AZ
    May 6, 2011 1:42 p.m.

    Well if BYU is ranked 26 in that period, it only proves one thing and that is that they can compete against the BCS schools. There are six BCS conferences therefore, if you divide 26 by 6 you get 4.3 which means shows that BYU would finish in the top half of the average BCS conference. Therefore, there must be something else keeping them out. It certainly isn't their sport programs.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    May 6, 2011 1:11 p.m.

    Since '98? This sounds pretty accurate to me. Utah has stepped up in that time period. They deserve the recognition. They have my respect.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    May 6, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    Veracity "Probably the most important thing is which direction is each program that is game, set, match." True but there is no need to rub it in Y fan's faces that Utah is now in money laden Major AQ Conference and BYU is not; that's kind of rude.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 6, 2011 12:55 p.m.

    Mad? Not at all! The BCS era is a valid place to draw the line - but not the only place. It WOULD be interesting to see the overall and head to head rankings for the last five years. It would also be interesting to draw the line, oh, say at the start of the 1984 football season.

    But of course, that doesn't favor Utah, so therefore is no longer relevant. And five years is too short of a time frame to be significant. Doesn't make me mad at all.

    I am most interested in the era that is about to begin. We can look at this again next March.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    May 6, 2011 12:21 p.m.

    BYU would be a spot or two higher if it had not been for the Crowton years. Utah would have been a spot or two highher if it weren't for the last two Bball coaches. The last 5 years would have them close to even. The past 20 years would have them closer to even because of BYU's Football success and Utahs Bball success. Two good programs headed up via different paths.

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    May 6, 2011 12:11 p.m.

    Utah ranks 5th in a study done by the Bookings Institute...

    They rank 1st. in left handed players.
    They rank 9th. in number of knee braces.
    They rank 6th. in how many had chicken pox as a child.
    They rank 4th. in players with full dentures.

    And finally they rank 3rd. in best use of shoe inserts.

    There is only one truth in statistics...they can make anything sound good can make any lie a truth.

    Probably the most important thing is which direction is each program that is game, set, match.

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    No news here, just statement of the obvious. Frankly, it shouldn't be close during the BCS era. In football, Utah to the BCS=2, BYU=0. In basketball, the Utes have gone to the sweet 16 multiple times and BYU has gone once.

  • bigutefan Las Vegas, NV
    May 6, 2011 11:52 a.m.

    This isn't news, we all know who is superior

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 11:27 a.m.


    You may be right based on the last 6 years because BYU has been in the NCAA basketball tournament several times during that time and utah only has once I think. But in reality it just shows they are really close together at this time. I think gonefishn had it right when he said utah's had the higher peaks and BYU has had more consistency. Either way it has been a pretty good last decade around here for college sports.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 6, 2011 11:15 a.m.


    I have to correct you when you say "...I seldom make negative commets about utahs actual athletic programs..." You have very consistently bashed our basketball program, baseball, softball, volleyball, women's basketball, women's soccer and our rugby team. You definitely have made negative statements about all of those programs and have participated in discounting the accomplishments of our football team. You have also engaged in comparing what BYU's football team has accomplished with what Utah's team has accomplished. You seem to have a selective memory with regards to your own comments.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 6, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    "And I post in the articles that interest me."

    Well then it's obvious every Utah article and anything Utah interests you and most subjects about BYU don't.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 6, 2011 11:09 a.m.


    We all mentioned BYU, because the article did. Wow, fancy that.

  • Dutch Bellingham, wa
    May 6, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    20/26 for Utah/BYU sounds about right for the last dozen years.
    It would be nice to know the same comparison for the last 1/2 dozen years also --- to see if there is a trend towards either team now. One of you BYU fans please do this! (I'm guessing BYU fares better.)

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:55 a.m.


    I love how I am such a point of focus for you in particular. And I post in the articles that interest me.

    One thing you probably don't realize is that I seldom compare BYU to utah, I seldom make negative comments about utahs actual athletic programs either. I reserve the vast majority of my comments for insecrue utah "fans" like yourself, pebbles, etc. and also for the utah trolls like wedgie and christina b that post mostly on BYU articles.

    If it makes you feel better I think utah has done a great job with its football program the last 7-8 years. i think utah got a great deal by being invited to the pac10. I think the pac20 tv deal is a great one and I have posted all of those things before.

    But of course the whiners like pebbles, or the lacking in self esteem posters like yourself don't pay attention to any of that. You focus on me making fun of your insecurities.


  • Ravenal Somewhere in, Utah
    May 6, 2011 10:51 a.m.

    I'll always hope BYU does better in everything but give credit where it's due. The Utes have accomplished a lot in both sports during the past decade. The bball program will eventually bounce back and despite my fellow cougar fans saying so, the football program won't be a Pac12 bottom feeder.

    It a good reflection on the state having two teams in those standings.

    Go Cougars!!!!

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:50 a.m.

    This was a silly article and litterally means nothing. However, for both basketball and football in this time frame I would say that BYU has enjoyed more consistancy and the Utes have reached higher peaks.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:41 a.m.

    " I do love how every comment by you ute "fans" either mentioned BYU or made an inference to them. LOL"

    If we're drawing conclusions then I also find it interesting that 80% of your posts are on Utah articles.


  • KH Holladay, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    "And yet those silly teams will go ahead and play the games anyway, just as if all the pre-season speculation was meaningless...."

    That wasn't preseason speculation. That was a rating of football and basketball since 1998.

  • Not from Utah Spring, TX
    May 6, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    Mad? Not sure why that would make anyone mad. Considering all the things Utah has done since 98 (two BCS games and a final four in 98), ranked #20 sounds about right.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:33 a.m.

    Top 20 is about right. A testament to the program that Chris Hill has built. Can't wait for football season!

    GO UTES!

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:31 a.m.

    Share of national title: 10 points
    BCS championship game loser: 7 points
    Top-4 ranking: 5 points
    No. 5-8: 3 points
    No. 9-16: 2 points
    No. 17-25: 1 point
    Unranked team with bowl bid: 0.5 points
    National title: 10 points
    Runner-up: 7 points
    Final Four: 5 points
    Elite Eight: 3 points
    Sweet 16: 2 points
    Round of 32: 1 point
    Loss before round of 32: 0.5 points

    Based upon the selective critera, I would say the rankings are fair.

    Like Ibleedcrimson said, you can find any criteria to bring you to any finding you wanted.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:31 a.m.

    Well considering utah has a final 4 appearance and two bcs bowls in that time frame it certainly is no surprise. I do love how every comment by you ute "fans" either mentioned BYU or made an inference to them. LOL

    Also considering BYU hasn't been to either the final four or a bcs bowl and are still only 6 behind utah it is a comment on BYU's consistency during that time.

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    May 6, 2011 10:17 a.m.

    And yet those silly teams will go ahead and play the games anyway, just as if all the pre-season speculation was meaningless....

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    What does Rival's know? Just another liberal toady in the BCS's pocket. Their writers probably went to Stanford and drive Volvo's.

    I bet ESPN will exert their influence for their Marquee team by tommorrow morning and BYU will be listed in the top 10 along with a printed retraction.

  • Alterego Ogden, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:08 a.m.


  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    May 6, 2011 10:07 a.m.

    U of U top 20, not too shabby.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 6, 2011 10:02 a.m.

    Uh oh, that's gonna make some Cougar fans mad. An independent analysis that ranks Utah better than BYU in both football and basketball since 98'. Ouch. Get ready for the onslaught of excuses and reasons why this analysis is worthless.

    On the positive side of this, it brings credibility to our invitation to the PAC-12 and puts us at the same level with many of our future conference opponents. It also puts BYU at that level. It's a shame they didn't get invited as well. It would have made a great conference even better.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    game set match