Red roundup: Search continues for new U. hoops coach

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  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    March 28, 2011 4:56 p.m.

    Thank you too.

    Always good to have a pleasant exchange of ideas

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 28, 2011 4:39 p.m.


    You make some great points. I don't believe that every coach at utah is just looking to move up by the way, many are locals and want to be here. But I do believe for the major sports those are the types of people utah is going to hire. Maybe they change their minds once they get here and decide this really is a great place to live. There is also some truth in that people become comfortable in the places they are and don't want to go to the trouble of changing.

    One thing that I'll rebutt is that they will only go after 3-4 years if someone else actually wants them. They may view utah as a stepping stone but they have to perform well enough to take that step. Meyer did and he left. Whittingham has so far and he has stayed but Whittingham is also a local guy with alot of reasons to stay here beyond simply loving the university. Not saying he doesn't love the university just that he has more reasons to stay than a guy like Meyer had.

    Either way thanks for having a civil discussion.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    March 28, 2011 4:07 p.m.


    Your emotions are showing:)

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 28, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    Ok if he'll go away, (which he won't). I'll admit he's right. The sooner we ignore him and his ilk the sooner he'll look for another venue to spread his venom.

    BYU is now has been and always will be the best program.......

    In provo.....

  • Big_Ben SLC, UT
    March 28, 2011 3:35 p.m.

    Guys please, just admit that Duckhunter is right.

    The guy is about to have a heart attack. It clearly defines him as a person to make sure that all of us see the world from his myopic point of view.

    Duck, yes, BYU from top to bottom right now has a more successful program than Utah. They have many more fans. To say that they are more loyal is silly. Fans always go to see successful programs. If BYU basketball becomes mediocre over the next five years, attendance will dip.

    Does that make you feel better, or are we still going to have to send the ambulance your way?

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    March 28, 2011 3:27 p.m.

    You also bring up other sports;

    Of the head coaches of Utah's 17 athletic teams, only 4 have spent less than 6 years at their position (not including men's bb) Those 3 are women's softball, tennis, the swimming coach, and nordic ski coach. However, if you include Elaine Elliott, there are 4 coaches with over 20 years of tenure at their position including Greg Marsden who has been at Utah for 36 years and obviously could have jumped ship many times.

    BTW, BYU has 5 head coaches who have less than 6 years at their current position, as well as multiple who have more that 20 years as well.

    Ultimately you are going to think what you will about how coaches view coaching at Utah. However, the facts, as I see them would indicate that you argument is founded only in your opinion, not the facts.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    March 28, 2011 3:25 p.m.


    I think this comes down to an agree to disagree scenario.

    If I recall correctly, Pimm left due to a fallout with the AD, not move from Utah or the program. Majerus was pretty similar.

    If Utah truly were a stepping stone program, nobody would ever stay more than 3-4 years and they would all go to bigger and better programs, when the only coach who followed the path that you outlined (coming to Utah, having success and moving to a bigger program) was Meyer.


  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 28, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    How does Whittingham blast my argument out of the water? He is the only coach at utah aayone else would possibly want for one while BYU has multiple coaches in multiple sports that could easily go to other schools if they desired.

    It just hurts you deeply and emotionally that BYU has a better overall athletic program and a bigger fanbase and a more loyal fanbase that spans generations. As I've said multiple times that is just the way it is.

    But just because Whittingham hasn't accepted another job to this point doesn't mean he won't. I would say the same for any of the BYU coaches as well. There is probably some amount of money or some amount of perceived prestige that would convince almost anyone to change locations and positions.

    But that isn't what is bothering you here, you know those things are true as well as I do. What bothers you is the actual differences between the two insitutions. You don't like that people do not have the same type of connection to utah that many do to BYU. But it is what it is "sir". It simply is.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    March 28, 2011 2:33 p.m.


    "That one really hurt your feelings didn't it? LOL"

    Uh, not really. You're dilussional though.

    You're not really going to put Bronco on your list are you? After last year? I'm pretty sure there is not an AD who would put a dime on him right now.

    Why not list the byU men's vollyball coach? Are they still under NCAA sanctions?

    Come on Duck man, K Whitt blasts your whole argument out of the water, so give it up.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 28, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    Why not save yourself a whole lot of typing Duckpunter and say this:

    BYU coaches prefer being big fish in little ponds"

    But then again your ambition in life is to be the Hedgie of the Utah forums. If you ask me you've made it and then some!!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 28, 2011 12:45 p.m.


    That one really hurt your feelings didn't it? LOL

    Well I wasn't trying to but I'll take it anyway. But Whittingham was on my list but I doubt he is any more of a hot commodity than Rose is currently. But of course then there is also Dave Rice, Bronco, Doman, Ryan Roberts (Baseball coach), and multiple assistants in other sports. Remember at BYU all of their minor sports are winning, or competing for, championships and doing well. That makes for coaches being desired. At utah that is not the case. Few, if any, of the sports outside of basketball are winning championships or are even all that good.

    Once again that is just how it is. You really shouldn't need to have me tell you that or do you not pay attention to the overall athletic program at the school you claim to support?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 28, 2011 12:35 p.m.


    I agree with you for the most part. Religion is the biggest single factor there and it is a very strong one. But as you listed in your post all 3 of those football coaches are from Utah County regardless of whether or not they played at BYU. They grew up BYU guys even though they didn't play football there so they already had the bond of being from Utah County as well as being members of the church.

    Roger Reid was also a Utah County guy and member, Ladell Anderson came out and said BYU was his dream job so he obviously had a desire and attachment that pre dated his hire. Dave Rose also already had family ties to BYU despite not playing there. The only one that didn't have any ties other than religion was Cleveland.

    There are thousands of BYU fans all over the country who did not attend BYU but feel that relationship to BYU because of church membership. I have plenty family in Las Vegas that never attended BYU but all are avid fans. Same in California and Texas. It is just the way it is.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    March 28, 2011 12:03 p.m.


    "I could give you a list of coaches at BYU that other schools would want. "

    Please do.

    Interesting that the biggest and most glaring example would be K Whitt and as you have stated, he is not on your list.

    I don't know what you are trying to argue really. I have never said that Dave Rose would have any reason to come to the U. His assistant is another story.

    Please list

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    March 28, 2011 12:33 a.m.


    Your multi-post argument about "why BYU coaches stay" only touched on a key factor - religion.

    Over 25 years, BYU has had 4 head basketball coaches and 3 head football coaches. None of them played for BYU, and only one graduated from BYU. The rest came from somewhere else.

    Ladell Anderson - Utah State player, coach, and former Utah assistant
    Roger Reid - Weber State player, high school coach before BYU assistant coach
    Steve Cleveland - Irvine player, BYU assistant
    Dave Rose - Houston player, BYU assistant

    LaVell Edwards - Utah State player, master's degree Utah, BYU assistant
    Gary Crowton (also known to many of you as He Who Must Not Be Named) - born in Orem, graduate of BYU, graduate assistant at BYU, numerous stops before Head Coach at BYU
    Bronco Mendenhall - born and raised in Utah County, Oregon State player, UNM assistant

    For 5 of the 7, their "tie" to BYU was their religion. The blurring of boundaries between culture, employer, and religion makes for a pretty permanent bond. Coaching BYU is almost like a Church calling - most don't "asked to be released."

    It will probably keep Rose in Provo.

    To borrow your phrase, "it is simply how it is."

  • SeattleUhasabballteam? Seattle, Wa
    March 27, 2011 10:59 p.m.


    Saying that utah is having a difficult time finding a coach or pointing out that there have been 4 losing seasons in 6 years on the hill isn't hate it's just stating the facts. Hill has been worried about Utah bball and has gotten it wrong. The real debate is whether Hill can't pick out a basketball coach or can't let one build a program. Either way Hill is the one to worry about.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 27, 2011 10:48 p.m.

    Now McBride was an obvious exception, he was where he wanted to be and at least to this point Whittingham appears to feel the same way although in his case it is a little difference because even though he did not grow up with a connection to utah he is from here and values being here more than someone who just came from elsewhere for the job.

    But all of the arguments ute fans use as to why Whittingham stays are exactly the same as the reasons Rose hasn't left BYU even though he has had opportunities. Let's not forget he turned down his alma mater and hometown to stay at BYU. That is basicly what Whittingham has done. So everytime utah fans start listing the weak reasons why they claim Rose will leave BYU just remember that his situation, and Roses, are very close to the same. Both have stayed when they could have left, both have been at their respective schools about the same amount of time, and both have said they want to continue living here, in Utah.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 27, 2011 10:41 p.m.


    But that one coach was almost the only one that was desired enough to move up. But having a bunch of coaches actually move up isn't the point. It is how those coaches view the position they are in. Pimm bailed to go live in Santa Barbara on a houseboat. As much as I love this area that is definately a move up for most people.

    The simple dynamics of the positions at each school lend credence to my points. Most of the coaches at utah are not from here and do not have the connection to the university of utah that the majority of BYU's coaches have to it. utah's coaches are usually hired from elsewhere and come to utah for the job opportunity not because of any lifelong love, or connection to, the university. BYU's coaches have so many connections to the university that there are bonds beyond simple employment and a paycheck. So while BYU's coaching pool is definately smaller than utah's its connections to the coaches it hires are much greater and stronger.


  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    March 27, 2011 9:21 p.m.


    I understand your sentiment about Utah being a stepping stone, job. However, other than Meyer, who used it as a stepping stone?

    Pimm left after 9 years (a pretty good tenure), for UCSB, hardly a bigger job under strained relations with the department

    Majerus left after after 15 years (a very long tenure). Signed with USC for a day, then out of coaching for 3 years than to St. Louis. Again, hardly springboarding himself to a huge program and payday.

    McBride: fired after 12 years

    Meyer, we know

    Whitt: likely isn't going anywhere but has already turned down the Tennessee job.

    So again, I understand your sentiment, but 1 coach in the past 30 years moving to big time program doesn't seem to support your assertion.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 27, 2011 5:57 p.m.

    Now BYU on the otherhand has a much larger fanbase than utah. It simply does, it is a fact, and there is no reason to get bent out of shape and deny it. It also has a large group of people that grow up thinking of it as the ultimate destination for them. They love the church and the university and being a coach at BYU for most of them is as much a calling as a job. I know that utah fans hate hearing that but it is true and I know coaches there that feel that way. They simply don't want to go anywhere else. They love being here, in "Happy Valley" raising their families and being in a place dominated by people of their faith.

    They see BYU as a destination, not a stepping stone, and for many it is a multi generational thing that has been ingrained in them since the day they were born.

    That is the difference and whether or not you want to accept it that is the truth. It simply is. Love of BYU itself is a way of life for several million people. That is not the case at utah.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 27, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    1st of all the reason good coaches leave utah is that utah has been a stepping stone job. The jobs there are perceived as good ones, and they are good ones, because utah is a large school in a large metro area with good funding and a history of success in multiple sports. Cocaches can go there and experience success and elevate their status in the coaching ranks. Those are great reasons for coaches to leave smaller schools and go to utah but it also leads to coaches leaving utah when something perceived as bigger comes along. utah does not have a large batch of people that grow up loving it, feel loyalty to it, and dream about it as their final destination or ultimate stop.

    That isn't bad it simply is how it is.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 27, 2011 5:46 p.m.


    This is alot simpler than you are making it. Yes Rose is a hot commodity now. Yes both schools have had coaches that have been desired by other schools. Currently both have coaches in various sports that other schools would want. No Rose isn't going anywhere else in the near future, especially to utah, no matter how much ute fans want that to happen. Yes Rice very well may go this offseason and if he does it is well deserved. Other than Whittingham utah does not have any coaches currently desired by other schools. I could give you a list of coaches at BYU that other schools would want.

    The history of things is that when utah has a coach other schools want he leaves. Whittingham is the 1st one that hasn't. The history at BYU is that coaches stay there even when other schools want them. There is a reason for that even though you probably don't want to hear it but since I'm running out of room in this post I'll start a new one and tell you why that is.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    March 27, 2011 4:53 p.m.

    Riddles and Ducky

    So which is it?

    Ducky you say Ute coaches "jump ship" and Riddles says thay nobody wants Utah's coaches.

    Which is it?

    Both byU and Utah have had or have coaches that other schools have wanted at some point in their careers. Even Boylen was courted by Arizona the last time they had a vacancy. It all comes down to what have you done for me lately.

    Right now Rose is a hot item but that may change as soon as next year.


  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 27, 2011 3:40 p.m.


    hill might be able to get connor.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    March 27, 2011 8:28 a.m.

    Got to love it when Riddles, Ducky and sammyg are giving hedgie the time of day on a Ute Bball article. I guess that makes sense since you are all on the level.

    Look forward to the accouncement of Tommy Connor as the coach so we can move forward. Get it done Dr Hill and...

    GO UTES!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 27, 2011 8:25 a.m.


    Hardly soul crushing. It was disappointing, it is always disappointing to lose, but BYU fans can look back and a great, fun, exciting season. I'm not disappointed with the season at all. I doubt you're all that disappointed at utah's season either since in a rare moment of honesty you'd probably admit you expected it.

    But as far as Rice taking another job is concerned, well if it happens, good for him. That is what you want for your top assistants. They have ambitions as well and it just goes to show what a great job they have done. I hope he does get a head coaching job this off season.

    Rose of course will be back at BYU for the forseeable future despite your wished otherwise. The only real question is will your claim of "hill will get whoever he wants" come true? Oh wait, he's already be turned down, twice. LOL

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    March 27, 2011 12:15 a.m.

    The big difference between BYU and Utah hedgy:

    Other teams want BYU's coaches.

    Nobody, including Utah, wants Utah's coaches.

    When you're used to finishing at the bottom of the MWC, it's really not going to be much of a change for the Utes to finish at the bottom of the PAC 12.

    Only a BYU hater would think that losing in overtime with a short-handed team to a #2 seed in the Sweet Sixteen is "soul crushing". Sorry, BYU fans were disappointed to see the Jimmer era come to a close, but it was hardly "soul crushing."

    Jimmerless, BYU will still have a MUCH better team than Utah next year.

    Oh, btw, sorry to crush your little bubble of delusion, but Rose will be back at the BYU helm again next season.

    Dr. Hill better not wait too long to hire a new coach or he may end up in the same boat as Boylen did last season, having to dip into the JC ranks for a quick fix.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 26, 2011 9:45 p.m.

    Well you'd know about coaches jumping ship wedgie or have you forgotten majerus, meyer, and pimm? LOL

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    March 26, 2011 7:24 p.m.


    Looks like Coach Rice will jumped the jimerless ship. He interview with Bradley (wow) only hours after the soul crushing defeat. I estimate within the next few days Rose will do the same.

    As far as I can tell, "exposure" leads to only one thing. Jumping ship ASAP.


  • sammyg Springville, UT
    March 26, 2011 7:12 p.m.

    You're right again hedgehog! That's 3 times this year we've somewhat agreed on something, an elite coach won't waste their time on a midmajor program that's in the toilet.

    There's hope for you yet! I guess it's all the positive vibes you got following Cougar basketball. Impressive! Keep at it!

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    March 26, 2011 6:48 p.m.

    Mormon Ute,

    I love the Utes to go after the Butler Coach.... But after what he did today ( and last year) he's moved up to elite program status.....I'm sure Indiana has him on his radar.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    March 26, 2011 5:29 p.m.


    I'd love to see Chris Hill get Butler's coach to come to Utah. What I have read about him and his program is top notch on the court and off. He emphasizes school first, basketball second and look what he still manages to get out of his kids. He's the kind of leader we need.

  • Kyle loves BYU/Jazz Provo, UT
    March 26, 2011 4:41 p.m.

    Unfortunately just because you like the comments hedgehog, it doesn't make them true.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    March 26, 2011 3:48 p.m.

    Why not take some of your new 20 mill a year and try to steal Butler's coach?

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    March 26, 2011 12:27 p.m.

    Hahaha love the hate. Bring it!

    BlameItOnTheOfficials: "where's all the comments? no interest in a Red Roundup.. no interest in the Ute programs? It's a sad day in Uteville"
    A: When there is actually NEWS to report, you'll see the Ute faithful on here. This article contained nothing new.

    sammyg: "Keep searchin'! There's someone dying for a shot at a long-term project in the PAC-10.2! Unless of course, you're one of the .2 programs! Humor is alive in Oregon, ask an 'Oregonian'!"
    A: Having grown up in Oregon, I can tell you, you'd have to have a sense of humor if you were a Beaver fan.

    Oregonian: "Dr. Phil - He knows how to deal with people who aren't based in reality"
    A: Which is why he has set up shop in Provo. Few places on Earth are recognized for their peculiarity and naivety as Happy Valley. But since you're currently in Oregon, maybe you forgot that tidbit. At least you have your sense of humor.

    And Y fans, perhaps you and Rick Reilley can debate how Jimmer compares to Pistol Pete.

    Let Dr. Hill worry about the U.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    March 26, 2011 12:10 p.m.

    lots of BYU trolls out today. Must be licking their wounds from getting Jimmered. Yeah, I know, you made the tourney, and even the sweet 16. Congratulations, in the past 30 years you have as many sweet 16 appearances as you do 1 win seasons.

    Go back to Harmon

    Viva la Pac 12!

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    March 26, 2011 11:20 a.m.

    Keep searchin'! There's someone dying for a shot at a long-term project in the PAC-10.2! Unless of course, you're one of the .2 programs!

    Humor is alive in Oregon, ask an 'Oregonian'!

  • Oregonian Sherwood, OR
    March 26, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    Here's some places Dr. Hill could look for a new coach:

    FEMA - They work with disasters all the time

    NTSB - Experience dealing with trainwrecks

    Firestation - They've put out dumpster fires in the past

    Lottery Winners - They know how it feels when you move up to a new neighborhood but nobody comes to your party because you're still serving smokey joes and wine-in-a-box

    Dr. Phil - He knows how to deal with people who aren't based in reality

    Bruce Pearl - He'd look you in the eye and say "This is the best coaching job in the country"

    hedgehog - Knows more about sports than anyone alive, would be satisfied going 1-30 if that one win was against BYU, and he isn't employed so he could start immediately

    Reality: Maybe one player that could start on another D-1 team (if he sticks around), no recruits, no pipeline, no prospect of winning for a very long time. Let's face it, the Utah job just isn't that attractive to a high profile coach.

  • BlameItOnTheOfficials Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 26, 2011 10:20 a.m.

    where's all the comments? no interest in a Red Roundup.. no interest in the Ute programs? It's a sad day in Uteville.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    March 26, 2011 6:03 a.m.

    I hear that there are several Jr. High school coaches available. Since the utes have played like jr. high teams they may as well have a coach that will live up to their expectations.

    Oh and good luck with that pac 10.2 thing.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    March 25, 2011 5:57 p.m.

    Love the comments from posters on the Bleacher report article